Discussion:
[en-DE]"stationery"
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Stefan Ram
2019-11-02 17:24:41 UTC
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Supersedes: <stationary-***@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
[stationary->stationery]

What's written on a sign in a department store
near the Berlin Alexander square (in German):

|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.

. What this means is (as translated by me):

|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.

. What's written on their sign is:

|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.

. "Stationery cashpoint" for the candy checkout?
Can "stationery" mean "candies"/"confectionery"?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-02 17:50:18 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
. "Stationery cashpoint" for the candy checkout?
Can "stationery" mean "candies"/"confectionery"?
No, but you need to rethink and rewrite the whole message if you want
it to be answerable.
Post by Stefan Ram
Please pay
for
Post by Stefan Ram
our sweets only at the candy checkout.
The candy checkout only deals with sweets

or

The candy checkout is the only one where you can buy sweets

?

What difference do you intend between "sweets" and "candy"?
--
athel
b***@aol.com
2019-11-02 18:37:12 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Stefan Ram
. "Stationery cashpoint" for the candy checkout?
Can "stationery" mean "candies"/"confectionery"?
No, but you need to rethink and rewrite the whole message if you want
it to be answerable.
Post by Stefan Ram
Please pay
for
Post by Stefan Ram
our sweets only at the candy checkout.
The candy checkout only deals with sweets
or
The candy checkout is the only one where you can buy sweets
?
What difference do you intend between "sweets" and "candy"?
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-02 23:01:29 UTC
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Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
. "Stationery cashpoint" for the candy checkout?
Can "stationery" mean "candies"/"confectionery"?
b***@aol.com
2019-11-03 06:39:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
written on their sign is:

|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
. "Stationery cashpoint" for the candy checkout?
Can "stationery" mean "candies"/"confectionery"?
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-03 14:23:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?), so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.

Stefan is weird.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-03 16:42:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-03 18:28:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an explanation.
It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last line below.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-03 19:26:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an explanation.
It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last line below.
If you google it, you'll find there are thousands of pages about payment
in stores where "mobile" is contrasted with "stationary", including with
terms such as "mobile POS" vs "stationary POS" (where POS means "point
of sale"), e.g.:

https://www.gk-software.com/en/products/productfinder/mobile-pos

That tends to hint at a simple misspelling rather than a cock-and-bull
scenario of the candy checkout being located in the stationery department.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-03 19:33:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an explanation.
It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last line below.
If you google it, you'll find there are thousands of pages about payment
in stores where "mobile" is contrasted with "stationary", including with
terms such as "mobile POS" vs "stationary POS" (where POS means "point
https://www.gk-software.com/en/products/productfinder/mobile-pos
That tends to hint at a simple misspelling rather than a cock-and-bull
scenario of the candy checkout being located in the stationery department.
Have you still not understood that "statione/ary" was a MISTAKE on the
English version of the sign? It was supposed to say "Candy has to be
paid for at the candy counter."
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-04 15:19:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an explanation.
It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last line below.
If you google it, you'll find there are thousands of pages about payment
in stores where "mobile" is contrasted with "stationary", including with
terms such as "mobile POS" vs "stationary POS" (where POS means "point
https://www.gk-software.com/en/products/productfinder/mobile-pos
That tends to hint at a simple misspelling rather than a cock-and-bull
scenario of the candy checkout being located in the stationery department.
Have you still not understood that "statione/ary" was a MISTAKE on the
English version of the sign? It was supposed to say "Candy has to be
paid for at the candy counter."
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.

Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.

Why would there be different payment systems for German-literates and
English-literates?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-04 16:09:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an explanation.
It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last line below.
If you google it, you'll find there are thousands of pages about payment
in stores where "mobile" is contrasted with "stationary", including with
terms such as "mobile POS" vs "stationary POS" (where POS means "point
https://www.gk-software.com/en/products/productfinder/mobile-pos
That tends to hint at a simple misspelling rather than a cock-and-bull
scenario of the candy checkout being located in the stationery department.
Have you still not understood that "statione/ary" was a MISTAKE on the
English version of the sign? It was supposed to say "Candy has to be
paid for at the candy counter."
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
This is not about literary translation, and an "adaptation" is OK as long
as the message is conveyed. To take an example based on a recent AUE topic,
"tennis - what's new in terminology", where the Hawk-Eye system was mentioned,
I noticed, watching the Paris Masters 1000 tennis event that ended yesterday,
that, when a player wanted to confirm whether a call was good, the umpire
successively announced "Mesdames et Messieurs, M. <name of player> veut
faire appel à l'arbitrage vidéo" (= "Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr <name of
player> wants to resort to instant replay) in French and "Ladies and
Gentlemen, Mr <name of player> is challenging the call" in English. As you
can see, the two wordings have apparently nothing in common, but concretely,
they amount to the same meaning.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Why would there be different payment systems for German-literates and
English-literates?
Again, you missed my point. The payment system is the same for both: it's
the stationary checkout of the store, which also happens to be the only
payment system available for candy (whereas other goods can be paid using
mobile terminals).
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-04 18:04:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an explanation.
It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last line below.
If you google it, you'll find there are thousands of pages about payment
in stores where "mobile" is contrasted with "stationary", including with
terms such as "mobile POS" vs "stationary POS" (where POS means "point
https://www.gk-software.com/en/products/productfinder/mobile-pos
That tends to hint at a simple misspelling rather than a cock-and-bull
scenario of the candy checkout being located in the stationery department.
Have you still not understood that "statione/ary" was a MISTAKE on the
English version of the sign? It was supposed to say "Candy has to be
paid for at the candy counter."
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
This is not about literary translation, and an "adaptation" is OK as long
as the message is conveyed.
The English does not "convey" the "message" of the German.

Commercial translators -- by far the largest portion of translators --
must be ACCURATE. Where did you get "literary translation"?
Post by b***@aol.com
To take an example based on a recent AUE topic,
"tennis - what's new in terminology",
I have quite successfully avoided looking at that thread.
Post by b***@aol.com
where the Hawk-Eye system was mentioned,
I noticed, watching the Paris Masters 1000 tennis event that ended yesterday,
that, when a player wanted to confirm whether a call was good, the umpire
successively announced "Mesdames et Messieurs, M. <name of player> veut
faire appel à l'arbitrage vidéo" (= "Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr <name of
player> wants to resort to instant replay) in French and "Ladies and
Gentlemen, Mr <name of player> is challenging the call" in English. As you
can see, the two wordings have apparently nothing in common, but concretely,
they amount to the same meaning.
"Candy counter" and "statione/ary counter" do not.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Why would there be different payment systems for German-literates and
English-literates?
Again, you missed my point. The payment system is the same for both: it's
the stationary checkout of the store, which also happens to be the only
payment system available for candy (whereas other goods can be paid using
mobile terminals).
If that's the French attitude toward translation, it's a good thing the EU
defaults to English.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-04 18:32:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an explanation.
It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last line below.
If you google it, you'll find there are thousands of pages about payment
in stores where "mobile" is contrasted with "stationary", including with
terms such as "mobile POS" vs "stationary POS" (where POS means "point
https://www.gk-software.com/en/products/productfinder/mobile-pos
That tends to hint at a simple misspelling rather than a cock-and-bull
scenario of the candy checkout being located in the stationery department.
Have you still not understood that "statione/ary" was a MISTAKE on the
English version of the sign? It was supposed to say "Candy has to be
paid for at the candy counter."
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
This is not about literary translation, and an "adaptation" is OK as long
as the message is conveyed.
The English does not "convey" the "message" of the German.
Commercial translators -- by far the largest portion of translators --
must be ACCURATE. Where did you get "literary translation"?
Post by b***@aol.com
To take an example based on a recent AUE topic,
"tennis - what's new in terminology",
I have quite successfully avoided looking at that thread.
Post by b***@aol.com
where the Hawk-Eye system was mentioned,
I noticed, watching the Paris Masters 1000 tennis event that ended yesterday,
that, when a player wanted to confirm whether a call was good, the umpire
successively announced "Mesdames et Messieurs, M. <name of player> veut
faire appel à l'arbitrage vidéo" (= "Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr <name of
player> wants to resort to instant replay) in French and "Ladies and
Gentlemen, Mr <name of player> is challenging the call" in English. As you
can see, the two wordings have apparently nothing in common, but
concretely, they amount to the same meaning.
"Candy counter" and "statione/ary counter" do not.
How can one possibly deny the obvious with such aplomb?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Why would there be different payment systems for German-literates and
English-literates?
Again, you missed my point. The payment system is the same for both: it's
the stationary checkout of the store, which also happens to be the only
payment system available for candy (whereas other goods can be paid using
mobile terminals).
If that's the French attitude toward translation, it's a good thing the EU
defaults to English.
Yet another irrelevant cop-out.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-04 19:52:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Le lundi 4 novembre 2019 16:19:12 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a écrit
wrot
Le dimanche 3 novembre 2019 20:33:25 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels a
Ã
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 2:26:09 PM UTC-5,
Le dimanche 3 novembre 2019 19:28:20 UTC+1, Peter T.
Daniels a
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 11:42:36 AM UTC-5,
Le dimanche 3 novembre 2019 15:23:57 UTC+1, Peter T.
Daniel
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 1:39:21 AM UTC-5,
Le dimanche 3 novembre 2019 00:01:31 UTC+1, Peter
T. Da
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:37:15 PM
UTC-4, be
Le samedi 2 novembre 2019 18:50:23 UTC+1, Athel
Cor
On 2019-11-02 17:24:41 +0000, Stefan Ram
up.fu-berlin.de>
[a hundred lines too much]

Please trim. Or avoid getting into an arg^w discussion with PTD.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
CDB
2019-11-04 20:34:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
["I wuv u": nothing sends that message like a gumdrop]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
To take an example based on a recent AUE topic, "tennis - what's
new in terminology",
I have quite successfully avoided looking at that thread.
Sorry for piggyback. Didn't see you there.

[...]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
where the Hawk-Eye system was mentioned, I noticed, watching the
Paris Masters 1000 tennis event that ended yesterday, that, when a
player wanted to confirm whether a call was good, the umpire
successively announced "Mesdames et Messieurs, M. <name of player>
veut faire appel l'arbitrage vidéo" (= "Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr
<name of player> wants to resort to instant replay) in French and
"Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr <name of player> is challenging the call"
in English. As you can see, the two wordings have apparently
nothing in common, but concretely, they amount to the same
meaning.
They're not really that different, except that the French mentions
video. To appeal to another kind of ruling is to challenge the call.

[more candy]
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-04 19:59:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?

It seems far more likely for the job to be dumped on someone on their
staff who has (or claims to have) a reasonable grasp of both languages.
--
Sam Plusnet
Stefan Ram
2019-11-04 20:22:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
It seems far more likely for the job to be dumped on someone on their
staff who has (or claims to have) a reasonable grasp of both languages.
It seems obvious to me that this is not a translation by
someone who has been trained as a translator. It must have
been translated by an employee with some superficial
knowledge of English that he overestimated¹ - which had the
consequence of not even having used a dictionary to verify
the translation. Confusing "stationery" with "confectionery"
/after/ the correct word "confectionery" already has been
used is also somewhat bizarr. The actual /stationery checkout/
is a few floors up.

Ok, here it is:

Loading Image...

. ¹ I'm guilty of that too, I know!
Mark Brader
2019-11-04 20:45:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
http://www.purl.org/stefan_ram/jpg/stationery.jpg
Ah. So it has the correct -ery ending both in the right word
"confectionery" and in the wrong word "stationery", but does
omit the "for" after "paid".

I am now struck by another point. In German, customers are asked
to "please" pay for the confectionery at the confectionery checkout,
whereas in English, "please" does not fit, because the sentence has
been converted to the passive. Both sets of customers get thanked
for their compliance, though.

I'm not bothered about the use or non-use of "please" on this sort of
sign, but when it disappears in translation, that seems weird.

Also, it's now clear that the sign is in the confectionery department,
so how far from the confectionery checkout is it anyway? I'm inclined
to wonder whether a suitably placed sign reading

"Please pay *here* for confectionery."

would suffice.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "In my case, self-absorption is
***@vex.net completely justified." -- LAURA

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Stefan Ram
2019-11-04 21:12:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Also, it's now clear that the sign is in the confectionery department,
so how far from the confectionery checkout is it anyway?
I was cursorily looking for the confectionery checkout,
but did not find it. I bought some food there, but not
confectionery, so I paid at the general grocery checkout.
Stefan Ram
2019-11-08 13:38:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Mark Brader
Also, it's now clear that the sign is in the confectionery department,
so how far from the confectionery checkout is it anyway?
I was cursorily looking for the confectionery checkout,
but did not find it. I bought some food there, but not
confectionery, so I paid at the general grocery checkout.
In the meantime, I have seen the confectionery checkout.
It is right there within the confectionery department.
Tony Cooper
2019-11-04 20:53:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
It seems far more likely for the job to be dumped on someone on their
staff who has (or claims to have) a reasonable grasp of both languages.
In a photo forum that I follow there is a perpetual thread titled
"Signs". Followers of that forum post photographs of signs they have
seen. Quite a few of the photographs are of signs in some non-English
speaking country where the sign is in English.

And, most of *those* signs are awkward, wrong, or humorous attempts at
English. There are hundreds of such photographs in that thread.

Obviously, no "translator" was involved. Some employee or owner of
the place who thinks they know the English word or spelling is the
culprit.

God bless 'em, and may they continue to mangle our language. We need
the laughs.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-04 21:16:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
It seems far more likely for the job to be dumped on someone on their
staff who has (or claims to have) a reasonable grasp of both languages.
If they're on the staff of the store, then they probably already know
that you don't pay for candy in the stationery department. It simply
makes no sense.
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-05 03:10:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
It seems far more likely for the job to be dumped on someone on their
staff who has (or claims to have) a reasonable grasp of both languages.
If they're on the staff of the store, then they probably already know
that you don't pay for candy in the stationery department. It simply
makes no sense.
I'm going to assume that you're still thundering down this blind alley
as a quite deliberate act. I don't understand why.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 15:45:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
It seems far more likely for the job to be dumped on someone on their
staff who has (or claims to have) a reasonable grasp of both languages.
If they're on the staff of the store, then they probably already know
that you don't pay for candy in the stationery department. It simply
makes no sense.
I'm going to assume that you're still thundering down this blind alley
as a quite deliberate act. I don't understand why.
Because bebe... keeps coming up with more and more outlandish suggestions.
If you don't understand what's going on, please see Peter Moylan's
perfect (as Trump would say) message.
charles
2019-11-04 21:32:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
even professional translators ( or their customers) get it wrong sometimes.

The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter Young
2019-11-04 22:51:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
even professional translators ( or their customers) get it wrong sometimes.
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
I have a photo of that sign. In Welsh it actually says, translated, "I am
out of the office now. Please send any work for translation".

When I've had some sleep I might post the photo.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-05 09:37:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
even professional translators ( or their customers) get it wrong sometimes.
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
I have a photo of that sign. In Welsh it actually says, translated, "I am
out of the office now. Please send any work for translation".
When I've had some sleep I might post the photo.
It's available on the web, but I'm too lazy to search for it now.
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-05 10:00:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
[ … ]
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
I have a photo of that sign. In Welsh it actually says, translated, "I am
out of the office now. Please send any work for translation".
When I've had some sleep I might post the photo.
It's available on the web, but I'm too lazy to search for it now.
Not so lazy now that I've finished what I was supposed to be doing.
There are lots of examples here:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gallery/18-signs-shocking-welsh-translations-6380985
--
athel
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-05 11:04:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 10:00:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Young
[ 
 ]
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in
Welsh, so they sent their English text to a translation firm by
email. They got a quick response and had the sign made and erected.
it read "Out of office auto-reply. We will be back in the office
next week."
I have a photo of that sign. In Welsh it actually says, translated,
"I am out of the office now. Please send any work for translation".
When I've had some sleep I might post the photo.
It's available on the web, but I'm too lazy to search for it now.
Not so lazy now that I've finished what I was supposed to be doing.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gallery/18-signs-shocking
-welsh-translations-6380985
Over a decade old now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm

but as we're digging into old news about failed understanding; how about
the paediatrician who was hounded from her house (gosh; nearly 20 years
ago)

This neatly cross-threads to Duffryn nr Tredegar House!.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1353904/Paediatrician-attack-
People-dont-want-no-paedophiles-here.html
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
RH Draney
2019-11-05 11:06:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
[ … ]
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
I have a photo of that sign. In Welsh it actually says, translated, "I am
out of the office now. Please send any work for translation".
When I've had some sleep I might post the photo.
It's available on the web, but I'm too lazy to search for it now.
Not so lazy now that I've finished what I was supposed to be doing.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gallery/18-signs-shocking-welsh-translations-6380985
Here's a Chinese version from the time of the Beijing Olympics:

https://boingboing.net/2008/07/15/chinese-restaurant-c.html

....r
Peter Young
2019-11-05 11:50:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
[ … ]
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
I have a photo of that sign. In Welsh it actually says, translated, "I am
out of the office now. Please send any work for translation".
When I've had some sleep I might post the photo.
It's available on the web, but I'm too lazy to search for it now.
Not so lazy now that I've finished what I was supposed to be doing.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gallery/18-signs-shocking-we
lsh-translations-6380985
Thanks, Atel, a lot of amusement there.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-05 03:17:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
even professional translators ( or their customers) get it wrong sometimes.
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
In that particular case there was (supposed to be) an "Official
Translator" involved in the process, since the sign was required by law
to be in English and Welsh.

Someone needing a one-off sign in a department store is hardly going to
seek the services of some "professional translator" (an idea raised by
PTD for some reason not disclosed).
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 15:47:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
even professional translators ( or their customers) get it wrong sometimes.
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
In that particular case there was (supposed to be) an "Official
Translator" involved in the process, since the sign was required by law
to be in English and Welsh.
Someone needing a one-off sign in a department store is hardly going to
seek the services of some "professional translator" (an idea raised by
PTD for some reason not disclosed).
If The Law requires signage to be in more than one language, is it not
likely that there is someone on staff or on call whose job it is to do
the translating?

You're the only one who has failed to comprehend the incidental mention
of the profession of translating.
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-05 18:23:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
even professional translators ( or their customers) get it wrong sometimes.
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
In that particular case there was (supposed to be) an "Official
Translator" involved in the process, since the sign was required by law
to be in English and Welsh.
Someone needing a one-off sign in a department store is hardly going to
seek the services of some "professional translator" (an idea raised by
PTD for some reason not disclosed).
If The Law requires signage to be in more than one language, is it not
likely that there is someone on staff or on call whose job it is to do
the translating?
Yes. That's the whole point of the English/Welsh story.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 19:33:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
even professional translators ( or their customers) get it wrong sometimes.
The was recently a business site in Wales which needed a sign in Welsh, so
they sent their English text to a translation firm by email. They got a
quick response and had the sign made and erected. it read "Out of office
auto-reply. We will be back in the office next week."
In that particular case there was (supposed to be) an "Official
Translator" involved in the process, since the sign was required by law
to be in English and Welsh.
Someone needing a one-off sign in a department store is hardly going to
seek the services of some "professional translator" (an idea raised by
PTD for some reason not disclosed).
If The Law requires signage to be in more than one language, is it not
likely that there is someone on staff or on call whose job it is to do
the translating?
Yes. That's the whole point of the English/Welsh story.
Which wouldn't seem to have much to do with a department store in Germany
-- at the very least, a public authority vs. a private business.
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 14:06:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator may
have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by "stationery
cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile payment is
impossible for candy?
No, I have not, because that is utterly absurd, ridiculous, etc. etc. etc.
Any translator who did such a thing would not long be a professional
translator.
Are you quite sure that a shop must employ the services of a
professional translator to produce their signs?
It seems far more likely for the job to be dumped on someone on their
staff who has (or claims to have) a reasonable grasp of both languages.
ITYM "dumped on whoever happens to be in front of a computer at the
time"!
--
The three-martini lunch is the epitome of American efficiency.
Where else can you get an earful, a bellyful and a snootful at
the same time? ---Gerald Ford
Peter Moylan
2019-11-05 01:17:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.

Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Tony Cooper
2019-11-05 01:43:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
I have generally avoided this thread, but I do keep wondering what
"mobile payment" arrangement would be if there was one. Is there some
store that has someone walking around with a cash register and credit
card machine in hand and will take payment for purchases anywhere in
the store?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
b***@shaw.ca
2019-11-05 01:53:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
I have generally avoided this thread, but I do keep wondering what
"mobile payment" arrangement would be if there was one. Is there some
store that has someone walking around with a cash register and credit
card machine in hand and will take payment for purchases anywhere in
the store?
I've never see that in a shop, but I've been in plenty of restaurants
where they'll bring a hand-held credit card machine to your table.
If you're paying cash, they'll bring your bill, take your money to
the till, and bring back your change. Shops don't do that in practice
that I'm aware of, but there is no physical reason why they couldn't.

bill
Tony Cooper
2019-11-05 03:07:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
I have generally avoided this thread, but I do keep wondering what
"mobile payment" arrangement would be if there was one. Is there some
store that has someone walking around with a cash register and credit
card machine in hand and will take payment for purchases anywhere in
the store?
I've never see that in a shop, but I've been in plenty of restaurants
where they'll bring a hand-held credit card machine to your table.
If you're paying cash, they'll bring your bill, take your money to
the till, and bring back your change. Shops don't do that in practice
that I'm aware of, but there is no physical reason why they couldn't.
Ah, yes, that's quite common in restaurants here. Not in stores, but
in restaurants.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ken Blake
2019-11-05 15:46:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
I have generally avoided this thread, but I do keep wondering what
"mobile payment" arrangement would be if there was one. Is there some
store that has someone walking around with a cash register and credit
card machine in hand and will take payment for purchases anywhere in
the store?
I've never see that in a shop, but I've been in plenty of restaurants
where they'll bring a hand-held credit card machine to your table.
So have I. It's very common in Europe, but I don't remember ever seeing
that in the US.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you're paying cash, they'll bring your bill, take your money to
the till, and bring back your change. Shops don't do that in practice
that I'm aware of, but there is no physical reason why they couldn't.
bill
--
Ken
charles
2019-11-05 17:24:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still
have the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of
sense in English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept
mobile payments. It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To
me, it brings up images of counters on wheels or legs that wander
around the place.
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of
those would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar
with the area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments
aren't available could leave them wondering which direction to go,
while telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is
probably the nearest counter) is a clear direction.
I have generally avoided this thread, but I do keep wondering what
"mobile payment" arrangement would be if there was one. Is there some
store that has someone walking around with a cash register and credit
card machine in hand and will take payment for purchases anywhere in
the store?
I've never see that in a shop, but I've been in plenty of restaurants
where they'll bring a hand-held credit card machine to your table.
In the distant pass, diners would hand their credit card to the waiter who
would take it somewhere and bring it back later for you to sign the slip..
With the advice not to let the card out of your sight and the requirement
to enter your PIN, mobile terminals have become a necessity.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Ken Blake
2019-11-05 18:24:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still
have the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of
sense in English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept
mobile payments. It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To
me, it brings up images of counters on wheels or legs that wander
around the place.
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of
those would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar
with the area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments
aren't available could leave them wondering which direction to go,
while telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is
probably the nearest counter) is a clear direction.
I have generally avoided this thread, but I do keep wondering what
"mobile payment" arrangement would be if there was one. Is there some
store that has someone walking around with a cash register and credit
card machine in hand and will take payment for purchases anywhere in
the store?
I've never see that in a shop, but I've been in plenty of restaurants
where they'll bring a hand-held credit card machine to your table.
In the distant pass, diners would hand their credit card to the waiter who
would take it somewhere and bring it back later for you to sign the slip..
Yes. And where he took it was a place where he could copy your number.
Post by charles
With the advice not to let the card out of your sight and the requirement
to enter your PIN, mobile terminals have become a necessity.
"Necessity" is too too strong a word in my view, but it's certainly a
much better way.

Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
--
Ken
Tony Cooper
2019-11-05 20:02:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Katy Jennison
2019-11-05 20:29:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
--
Katy Jennison
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-05 20:37:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 05/11/2019 20:29, Katy Jennison wrote:

<snip>
Post by Katy Jennison
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
Even Dilbert eventually learned that lesson (almost a quarter of a
century ago).

https://dilbert.com/strip/1996-01-11
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Ken Blake
2019-11-05 20:58:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
<snip>
Post by Katy Jennison
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
Even Dilbert eventually learned that lesson (almost a quarter of a
century ago).
https://dilbert.com/strip/1996-01-11
LOL! I know many people who are afraid to buy anything on the internet,
and that's what I always point out to them.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
2019-11-05 20:57:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
--
Ken
charles
2019-11-05 21:03:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
It is possible (over here, at least) to take your card to a cash point at a
counter or desk. Rather breaks up the party. though.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Katy Jennison
2019-11-05 21:38:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
It is possible (over here, at least) to take your card to a cash point at a
counter or desk. Rather breaks up the party. though.
IME, in most restaurants I've eaten in recently here (UK, but also, now
I think of it, in Italy), either a hand-held credit-card machine is
brought to your table or you pay at the desk on the way out of the
restaurant.
--
Katy Jennison
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 22:19:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let
their credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
It is possible (over here, at least) to take your card to a cash point
at a counter or desk. Rather breaks up the party. though.
IME, in most restaurants I've eaten in recently here (UK, but also, now
I think of it, in Italy), either a hand-held credit-card machine is
brought to your table or you pay at the desk on the way out of the
restaurant.
On-the-way-out was the standard model Over Here (otherwise, the waitstaff
would have to handle the restaurant's cash, and what owner would trust
them?), probably until the card-payers greatly outnumbered the cash-payers.
Still standard at diners and such. At the most upscale restaurants, one
would be known to the owner and one would sign the check, it would be
placed on the tab, and discreetly billed later on.
s***@gmail.com
2019-11-06 06:52:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
It is possible (over here, at least) to take your card to a cash point at a
counter or desk. Rather breaks up the party. though.
IME, in most restaurants I've eaten in recently here (UK, but also, now
I think of it, in Italy), either a hand-held credit-card machine is
brought to your table or you pay at the desk on the way out of the
restaurant.
As others of US have noted, you can pay on the way out if you want,
but there are plenty of places where the card is carried off.
The places where I experience this, I'm not bothered,
and quite often I can see the person at the terminal while they ring it up.
And the card I use is tied to a txt message when it is run.

Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.

At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants,
an on-table terminal (usually Ziosk) is there,
and you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
Sometimes when you wait for them,
they put it in the terminal for you.

The other common "at table" system uses Square,
but these are usually smaller, independent restaurants,
which don't have the clout to negotiate lower banking fees on their own,
but Square dings them less than a commercial bank would.

For pay-when-you-order (at the counter places),
a conventional card reader for a commercial bank service is standard.
Square is more common than Ziosk for the rest of the flock.

/dps
b***@shaw.ca
2019-11-06 07:09:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
It is possible (over here, at least) to take your card to a cash point at a
counter or desk. Rather breaks up the party. though.
IME, in most restaurants I've eaten in recently here (UK, but also, now
I think of it, in Italy), either a hand-held credit-card machine is
brought to your table or you pay at the desk on the way out of the
restaurant.
As others of US have noted, you can pay on the way out if you want,
but there are plenty of places where the card is carried off.
The places where I experience this, I'm not bothered,
and quite often I can see the person at the terminal while they ring it up.
And the card I use is tied to a txt message when it is run.
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.
At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants,
an on-table terminal (usually Ziosk) is there,
and you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
Sometimes when you wait for them,
they put it in the terminal for you.
The other common "at table" system uses Square,
but these are usually smaller, independent restaurants,
which don't have the clout to negotiate lower banking fees on their own,
but Square dings them less than a commercial bank would.
For pay-when-you-order (at the counter places),
a conventional card reader for a commercial bank service is standard.
Square is more common than Ziosk for the rest of the flock.
Right. My wife sells her photographic prints at art fairs and the like,
and she uses what she calls "the Square". It plugs into her phone and
lets people who don't have cash with them to use their credit cards
to buy her prints.

bill
Quinn C
2019-11-06 18:07:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.
Last time that was used on my card must be over 10 years ago now, in a
small shop when their Internet was down. I was surprised they still had
that thing in the drawer. At a restaurant in the same situation a bit
later, they went to "sorry, cash only right now".

I can't even remember when I last signed for a credit card payment.
Probably last time I went to the US, so 3 years ago.
Post by s***@gmail.com
At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants,
an on-table terminal (usually Ziosk) is there,
and you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
Sometimes when you wait for them,
they put it in the terminal for you.
That doesn't sound terribly manageable for the kind of group I'm mostly
going out with, where 4-20 people all pay separately, or some of them
pay for two.
--
- It's the title search for the Rachel property.
Guess who owns it?
- Tell me it's not that bastard Donald Trump.
-- Gilmore Girls, S02E08 (2001)
Ken Blake
2019-11-06 19:34:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.
Last time that was used on my card must be over 10 years ago now, in a
small shop when their Internet was down. I was surprised they still had
that thing in the drawer.
I can't remember the last time I saw one, but it was a long time
ago--maybe 10 years for me too.
Post by Quinn C
At a restaurant in the same situation a bit
later, they went to "sorry, cash only right now".
I can't even remember when I last signed for a credit card payment.
Probably last time I went to the US, so 3 years ago.
Most supermarkets around here require you to sign on their credit card
machine if your purchase is over $50.

Because it's faster than signing, I invariably just draw a short
straight horizontal line and press enter. The machine then displays
something like "Authorized."
--
Ken
Peter Moylan
2019-11-06 23:29:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk
impression tool.
Last time that was used on my card must be over 10 years ago now,
in a small shop when their Internet was down. I was surprised they
still had that thing in the drawer.
I can't remember the last time I saw one, but it was a long time
ago--maybe 10 years for me too.
A couple of weeks ago our local supermarket had a network outage, and
there was a huge traffic jam at the checkouts because customers were
being asked to sign credit card slips for any transaction over $100.

It must be well over 10 years since I last had to sign a credit card
slip. I was under the impression that the banks didn't even accept a
signature any more as a substitute for a PIN.

It made me realise something that I'd forgotten: that the elimination of
signatures shortened the supermarket queues significantly. We didn't get
all of the benefit, though. The supermarkets took advantage of the
increased efficiency by having fewer checkouts open.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-07 02:36:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.
Last time that was used on my card must be over 10 years ago now, in a
small shop when their Internet was down. I was surprised they still had
that thing in the drawer.
I can't remember the last time I saw one, but it was a long time
ago--maybe 10 years for me too.
...

I saw one used within the last year or two. I was quite surprised.

I last signed a credit-card bill two days ago.
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 14:13:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.
Last time that was used on my card must be over 10 years ago now, in a
small shop when their Internet was down. I was surprised they still had
that thing in the drawer. At a restaurant in the same situation a bit
later, they went to "sorry, cash only right now".
I can't even remember when I last signed for a credit card payment.
Probably last time I went to the US, so 3 years ago.
I used them twice in Montréal in 2010: to pay the taxi driver who took
us from the airport to the apartment we'd booked, & to pay the balance
of the rental to the apartment owner. I haven't seen them anywhere
since.
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants, an on-table
terminal (usually Ziosk) is there, and you can pay without the
server coming by your table with hand out. Sometimes when you wait
for them, they put it in the terminal for you.
That doesn't sound terribly manageable for the kind of group I'm mostly
going out with, where 4-20 people all pay separately, or some of them
pay for two.
--
There is no Internet of Things. There are only many unpatched,
vulnerable, small computers on the Internet.
@netik
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-07 14:29:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
I can't even remember when I last signed for a credit card payment.
Probably last time I went to the US, so 3 years ago.
I used them twice in Montréal in 2010: to pay the taxi driver who took
us from the airport to the apartment we'd booked, & to pay the balance
of the rental to the apartment owner. I haven't seen them anywhere
since.
Post by Quinn C
That doesn't sound terribly manageable for the kind of group I'm mostly
going out with, where 4-20 people all pay separately, or some of them
pay for two.
Waitstaff bring the credit card print-out to the table, along with the
card, where the diner is to fill in the line for the amount of the tip
to be added as it is signed. (For parties of, typically, more than six,
a "gratuity" is added, 18% or 20%, and the opportunity exists to add more.)

The restaurant the ILA has taken the speaker to for lunch after their
Saturday morning talk the last two times will not create more than three
checks for the group, no matter how many diners there are.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-07 17:08:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.
Last time that was used on my card must be over 10 years ago now, in a
small shop when their Internet was down. I was surprised they still had
that thing in the drawer. At a restaurant in the same situation a bit
later, they went to "sorry, cash only right now".
I can't even remember when I last signed for a credit card payment.
Probably last time I went to the US, so 3 years ago.
I had a big embarrassment at a whiskey (or whisky: I don't know or care
which spelling is preferred in different places; there are more
important things to worry about) distillery in Scotland, also about
three years ago, when I couldn't remember my secret code. I didn't try
more than twice because I didn't want the machine to withhold the card.
So I tried my other card, and exactly the same thing happened. The
cashier said don't worry, you can sign for it, so I did.
Post by Adam Funk
I used them twice in Montréal in 2010: to pay the taxi driver who took
us from the airport to the apartment we'd booked, & to pay the balance
of the rental to the apartment owner. I haven't seen them anywhere
since.
--
athel
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 17:18:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Almost nowhere will you encounter the carbon-copy/kachunk impression tool.
Last time that was used on my card must be over 10 years ago now, in a
small shop when their Internet was down. I was surprised they still had
that thing in the drawer. At a restaurant in the same situation a bit
later, they went to "sorry, cash only right now".
I can't even remember when I last signed for a credit card payment.
Probably last time I went to the US, so 3 years ago.
I used them twice in Montréal in 2010: to pay the taxi driver who took
us from the airport to the apartment we'd booked, & to pay the balance
of the rental to the apartment owner. I haven't seen them anywhere
since.
Oh, just to be clear, what I last used in 2010 was the carbon/kachunk
tool. (I have signed electronically printed credit card slips since
2010.)
--
In general, I find that calligraphers are just about the nicest people
I've ever met. ---Donald Knuth
Tony Cooper
2019-11-07 22:33:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:07:41 -0500, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants,
an on-table terminal (usually Ziosk) is there,
and you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
Sometimes when you wait for them,
they put it in the terminal for you.
That doesn't sound terribly manageable for the kind of group I'm mostly
going out with, where 4-20 people all pay separately, or some of them
pay for two.
The number of people really doesn't make any difference as far as the
system goes. The waitperson can run one card or 20. However, some
restaurants decline to offer separate checks and some waitpeople are
not particularly agreeable even if they will do separate checks if the
customer insists.

My wife does a monthly luncheon outing with a group of eight women.
The person who chooses the restaurant usually calls ahead to make sure
there will be a large table for the group and that they will do
separate checks.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Quinn C
2019-11-08 04:19:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:07:41 -0500, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants,
an on-table terminal (usually Ziosk) is there,
and you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
Sometimes when you wait for them,
they put it in the terminal for you.
That doesn't sound terribly manageable for the kind of group I'm mostly
going out with, where 4-20 people all pay separately, or some of them
pay for two.
The number of people really doesn't make any difference as far as the
system goes. The waitperson can run one card or 20. However, some
restaurants decline to offer separate checks and some waitpeople are
not particularly agreeable even if they will do separate checks if the
customer insists.
I may not have understood the arrangement described.

I thought that

| you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.

meant that the system already knows how much you have to pay without
the server entering the amount. Which would work if it was one bill per
table, but with separate bills, usually a person has to keep track of
who has to pay how much, and who has paid and who hasn't. Some
restaurants use seat numbers or customer names to help with the task.
--
Failover worked - the system failed, then it was over.
(freely translated from a remark by Dietz Proepper
in de.alt.sysadmin.recovery)
b***@shaw.ca
2019-11-08 06:35:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:07:41 -0500, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants,
an on-table terminal (usually Ziosk) is there,
and you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
Sometimes when you wait for them,
they put it in the terminal for you.
That doesn't sound terribly manageable for the kind of group I'm mostly
going out with, where 4-20 people all pay separately, or some of them
pay for two.
The number of people really doesn't make any difference as far as the
system goes. The waitperson can run one card or 20. However, some
restaurants decline to offer separate checks and some waitpeople are
not particularly agreeable even if they will do separate checks if the
customer insists.
I may not have understood the arrangement described.
I thought that
| you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
meant that the system already knows how much you have to pay without
the server entering the amount. Which would work if it was one bill per
table, but with separate bills, usually a person has to keep track of
who has to pay how much, and who has paid and who hasn't. Some
restaurants use seat numbers or customer names to help with the task.
I have an old friend who visits Vancouver once every year or two
and has one of us organize a dinner at a decent restaurant for
eight or ten of her old friends. The server is always happy to
provide as many separate bills as are requested. Doing so
helps with the size of the tips, and not doing so means we don't
eat there next time, to the detriment of both the restaurant and
the server.

bill
s***@gmail.com
2019-11-07 22:36:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
At many restaurants, especially chain restaurants,
an on-table terminal (usually Ziosk) is there,
and you can pay without the server coming by your table with hand out.
Sometimes when you wait for them,
they put it in the terminal for you.
That doesn't sound terribly manageable for the kind of group I'm mostly
going out with, where 4-20 people all pay separately, or some of them
pay for two.
I've seen an option in the Ziosk selections for splitting a check,
but that would seem to be for a two- or three-way split.
For an n-way split, either the server agrees to separate checks
before taking the orders [1]
or one customer serves as banker,
putting the whole check on their card
and collecting cash from the others.
If Tony's in the group, he can buy a gift card
to hand to the banker.

[1] Used to be that orders were taken on the slip that became the bill,
but more these days is a plain notepad or a small spiral notebook.

[2] Would Harvey's CFL rule change have to do with the number of points
a kick was worth? In the NFL, a kick is worth 3 point only,
with no bonus if you're past the 40 yard line.
I also don't recall that soccer-style kicking was about range,
but rather about aim.

[3] Three for the trifecta, even though there's no third point.

/dps
Tony Cooper
2019-11-08 00:10:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
[1] Used to be that orders were taken on the slip that became the bill,
but more these days is a plain notepad or a small spiral notebook.
What I see more and more is that the server enters the order on an
iPad-type device, and that is transmitted straight to the kitchen.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ken Blake
2019-11-05 21:55:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
It is possible (over here, at least) to take your card to a cash point at a
counter or desk. Rather breaks up the party. though.
Yes, at some places. Usually smaller less fancy places. At the place
where we sometimes have breakfast, that's the only way to pay.
--
Ken
Peter Moylan
2019-11-06 00:38:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:24:47 -0700, Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my
experience it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says
it's common; perhaps it's common in Florida, but not
everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places
that do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common",
though? Dunno about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let
their credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
Here it's become less common, at least in the places where I eat, to pay
at the table. Most people seem to prefer to go to the cashier as they
are leaving.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-07 17:38:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
I'm not happy about, but I have no other choice when I eat in a
restaurant (other than paying cash, which I never want to do).
When they want to take the card away with them we follow to the place
they take them to. However, even with that precaution you can still be
cheated if they have a machine for reading all the data on the card.
One time we took some friends to dinner, and a year later my wife
noticed a very strange debit on the bank statement. (Normally we don't
check as thoroughly we should, but on that occasion she wanted to know
if an expected credit had been paid, and by chance the two entries came
one after another.) We didn't recognize the name of the payee and
couldn't make sense of the total, until we converted it to Chilean
pesos and saw that the total in pesos was exactly the same as the
restaurant bill a year earlier. The sum wasn't huge (around 80 euros if
memory serves) and the bank made no difficulty about reimbursing it.

In that case it was fairly obvious how the fraud had been perpetrated,
but I had a worse experience a couple of years later (at least, the
bank did, as I got reimbursed). I was contacted to ask if I'd used my
card to buy a television and a washing machine in Washington DC. I had
no difficulty in convincing the bank that I hadn't been in Washington
DC on the relevant date, and had used the card in Marseilles the same
day. The person I spoke to asked me if I'd been in the USA some months
earlier, and I said yes, and I used my card in Berkeley and Tracy, and
later on in Denver and Boulder. No sane person takes their holidays in
Tracy (unless they have relatives who live there), so although it's not
especially law-abiding it's probably not worth anyone's while setting
up a system to clone foreigner visitors' cards. My guess is that the
cloning was done in Boulder, but who knows. The person at the bank said
that similar things had happened to other people from France who had
been there in the same period as we had.
--
athel
Tony Cooper
2019-11-06 00:34:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:29:44 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
What do you do, though? You like the restaurant, but the way it's
done there is that server takes your card somewhere and brings you
back the chit to sign.

I'm comfortable with that in most of the places we go. I would not be
comfortable with that in some restaurants down in the tourist area of
Orlando where they employ "under the table" staff who are working
there (illegally) on a student or tourist visa. (That's very
prevalent here)
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Mark Brader
2019-11-06 01:04:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
What do you do, though? You like the restaurant, but the way it's
done there is that server takes your card somewhere and brings you
back the chit to sign.
They take cash, don't they?
--
Mark Brader | "(There's no accounting for taste, I guess.)
Toronto | [*You*, not me!]"
***@vex.net | --Steve Summit
Tony Cooper
2019-11-06 04:09:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
What do you do, though? You like the restaurant, but the way it's
done there is that server takes your card somewhere and brings you
back the chit to sign.
They take cash, don't they?
Yes, but I no longer carry much cash. I can if I plan to go where
I'll need it, but that's not always the case.

Primarily, I avoid the part of town where there are restaurants that I
might be uncomfortable in when letting my credit card get out of my
sight.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Katy Jennison
2019-11-06 08:32:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:29:44 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
What do you do, though? You like the restaurant, but the way it's
done there is that server takes your card somewhere and brings you
back the chit to sign.
When I wrote "I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
credit card out of their sight" I should have added "and therefore
virtually all restaurants in Europe either bring the card machine to the
table or take the money at the till on exit." And I only say
'virtually' because otherwise someone will come up with a counter-example.
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm comfortable with that in most of the places we go. I would not be
comfortable with that in some restaurants down in the tourist area of
Orlando where they employ "under the table" staff who are working
there (illegally) on a student or tourist visa. (That's very
prevalent here)
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2019-11-07 00:05:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
When I wrote "I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
Post by Katy Jennison
credit card out of their sight" I should have added "and therefore
virtually all restaurants in Europe either bring the card machine to the
table or take the money at the till on exit." And I only say
'virtually' because otherwise someone will come up with a counter-example.
Yes, some restaurants let you pay at the counter.
Or at a cashier station up front.

I am somewhat skeptical about being assured that not letting the
credit card leave my sight eliminates the problem. I frequently read
accounts of "skimmers" being inserted in gas pumps and ATMs.

If a skimmer can be fitted into a gas pump or ATM, why couldn't a
skimmer be fitted into one of the mobile card machines brought to the
table?

https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-card-skimming-works-960773
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ken Blake
2019-11-07 00:36:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
When I wrote "I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
Post by Katy Jennison
credit card out of their sight" I should have added "and therefore
virtually all restaurants in Europe either bring the card machine to the
table or take the money at the till on exit." And I only say
'virtually' because otherwise someone will come up with a counter-example.
Yes, some restaurants let you pay at the counter.
Or at a cashier station up front.
What does that have to do with my counter-example? <g>
--
Ken
Quinn C
2019-11-07 17:46:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I am somewhat skeptical about being assured that not letting the
credit card leave my sight eliminates the problem. I frequently read
accounts of "skimmers" being inserted in gas pumps and ATMs.
If a skimmer can be fitted into a gas pump or ATM, why couldn't a
skimmer be fitted into one of the mobile card machines brought to the
table?
In my understanding, a skimmer needs the card to be fully inserted,
because they can only get information from the magnetic stripe, not the
chip. In hand-held terminals, the card is usually not fully inserted,
so that'd make it considerably more difficult.

But that's just my first spontaneous guess.

I wonder if the fraud detection systems flag it when the magnetic
stripe is used for a payment. I think I've done that exactly once with
the current card, i.e. in about 3 years.
--
In the old days, the complaints about the passing of the
golden age were much more sophisticated.
-- James Hogg in alt.usage.english
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-07 21:59:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
In my understanding, a skimmer needs the card to be fully inserted,
because they can only get information from the magnetic stripe, not the
chip. In hand-held terminals, the card is usually not fully inserted,
so that'd make it considerably more difficult.
But that's just my first spontaneous guess.
I wonder if the fraud detection systems flag it when the magnetic
stripe is used for a payment. I think I've done that exactly once with
the current card, i.e. in about 3 years.
If I tried to swipe the card after the chip function on the reader was
activated, it told me to insert, swipe wouldn't work any more.
Quinn C
2019-11-08 17:27:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Quinn C
In my understanding, a skimmer needs the card to be fully inserted,
because they can only get information from the magnetic stripe, not the
chip. In hand-held terminals, the card is usually not fully inserted,
so that'd make it considerably more difficult.
But that's just my first spontaneous guess.
I wonder if the fraud detection systems flag it when the magnetic
stripe is used for a payment. I think I've done that exactly once with
the current card, i.e. in about 3 years.
If I tried to swipe the card after the chip function on the reader was
activated, it told me to insert, swipe wouldn't work any more.
I don't think that relates to my musings.

I was wondering if, after not having used swipe for years, if it was
suddenly used, I would get a call asking if that was me. Or, since it
didn't happen the one time I did use it, maybe it would if it also was
a significant amount.

The last time a fraud detection system worked on me was when my
accounts were frozen after I corrected *one letter* in my address. It
took an hour and me being in person at a branch to get them back.

So that system was very badly built: it may be non-trivial to cover all
cases in software, but to any human, it should be obvious at a glance
that this specific correction doesn't offer any chance for fraud. I
don't even understand how the spelling error ever got in there. It was
in the city name, and - at least now - the system fills in that field
based on the postal code.

Mind you, they didn't tell me why. It's just too much of a coincidence.
--
"Bother", said the Borg, as they assimilated Pooh.
Tony Cooper
2019-11-08 17:36:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:27:58 -0500, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Quinn C
In my understanding, a skimmer needs the card to be fully inserted,
because they can only get information from the magnetic stripe, not the
chip. In hand-held terminals, the card is usually not fully inserted,
so that'd make it considerably more difficult.
But that's just my first spontaneous guess.
I wonder if the fraud detection systems flag it when the magnetic
stripe is used for a payment. I think I've done that exactly once with
the current card, i.e. in about 3 years.
If I tried to swipe the card after the chip function on the reader was
activated, it told me to insert, swipe wouldn't work any more.
I don't think that relates to my musings.
I was wondering if, after not having used swipe for years, if it was
suddenly used, I would get a call asking if that was me. Or, since it
didn't happen the one time I did use it, maybe it would if it also was
a significant amount.
As far as I know, it makes no difference to the machine if you insert
the card or swipe it. The machine is reading your account information
and the information transmitted is the same.

The cards I use can be inserted, waved, or swiped. I've never come
across a machine that accepts the "wave, but I've used the cards on
machines that read either swipe or insert. Never had a problem.

The only calls I've had from my credit card providers were calls about
payments to foreign entities for online purchases. Evidently, the
system doesn't tell them if I was in Germany or in the US paying a
German vendor. Once I assured them the payment was legitimate, the
transactions went through without a problem.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Tony Cooper
2019-11-07 22:37:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 12:46:21 -0500, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Tony Cooper
I am somewhat skeptical about being assured that not letting the
credit card leave my sight eliminates the problem. I frequently read
accounts of "skimmers" being inserted in gas pumps and ATMs.
If a skimmer can be fitted into a gas pump or ATM, why couldn't a
skimmer be fitted into one of the mobile card machines brought to the
table?
In my understanding, a skimmer needs the card to be fully inserted,
because they can only get information from the magnetic stripe, not the
chip. In hand-held terminals, the card is usually not fully inserted,
so that'd make it considerably more difficult.
The gas pumps in this area require the card to be inserted. If it's a
swipe-only card, you have to in and have the cashier run it.

Well, at least all of the pumps I've used.

I have no idea how skimmers work. All I know is that the newspaper
occasionally reports that some have been found.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Janet
2019-11-06 11:37:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@invalid.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:29:44 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
These days, I don't think most people here would be happy to let their
credit card out of their sight.
What do you do, though? You like the restaurant, but the way it's
done there is that server takes your card somewhere and brings you
back the chit to sign.
That doesn't happen here, where cards require a PIN which has to be
entered by its owner (who keeps it secret for security reasons).

Janet
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm comfortable with that in most of the places we go. I would not be
comfortable with that in some restaurants down in the tourist area of
Orlando where they employ "under the table" staff who are working
there (illegally) on a student or tourist visa. (That's very
prevalent here)
Ken Blake
2019-11-05 20:56:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
OK. As best I remember I've never seen it in the US (although if I have,
it won't be the only thing I've forgotten).
--
Ken
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 14:10:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
I don't think I used "common". I've seen it, I've been to places that
do it, and I expect to find more that do it. "Common", though? Dunno
about that.
I've seen it occasionally in the USA too, & I've never been to Florida.
--
We do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak. Bugs
are good for building character in the user.
---Klingon Programmer's Guide
Quinn C
2019-11-05 22:22:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by charles
In the distant pass, diners would hand their credit card to the waiter who
would take it somewhere and bring it back later for you to sign the slip..
Yes. And where he took it was a place where he could copy your number.
Post by charles
With the advice not to let the card out of your sight and the requirement
to enter your PIN, mobile terminals have become a necessity.
"Necessity" is too too strong a word in my view, but it's certainly a
much better way.
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
In this corner of Canada, in the few cases a restaurant doesn't have
the card reader to bring to the table (either not at all, or not at the
moment), you pay at the counter. Nobody takes your credit card
anywhere. I already get a bit annoyed by some waiters who want to take
my card to stick it into the terminal before my eyes, when almost all
of the terminals can use tap by now.
--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945
Tony Cooper
2019-11-06 00:39:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 17:22:28 -0500, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by charles
In the distant pass, diners would hand their credit card to the waiter who
would take it somewhere and bring it back later for you to sign the slip..
Yes. And where he took it was a place where he could copy your number.
Post by charles
With the advice not to let the card out of your sight and the requirement
to enter your PIN, mobile terminals have become a necessity.
"Necessity" is too too strong a word in my view, but it's certainly a
much better way.
Unfortunately, although that way is common in Europe, in my experience
it's never done in the US, although Tony Cooper says it's common;
perhaps it's common in Florida, but not everywhere.
In this corner of Canada, in the few cases a restaurant doesn't have
the card reader to bring to the table (either not at all, or not at the
moment), you pay at the counter. Nobody takes your credit card
anywhere. I already get a bit annoyed by some waiters who want to take
my card to stick it into the terminal before my eyes, when almost all
of the terminals can use tap by now.
Just commenting...my bank recently sent me a new card that can be
"waved" or inserted. That must be the same as a "tap" card. I have
yet to patronize a place that has the necessary machine to recognize
the wave. There are still a lot of "swipe" machines in place here,
but the "insert" machines are catching up.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 19:33:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by b***@shaw.ca
I've never see that in a shop, but I've been in plenty of restaurants
where they'll bring a hand-held credit card machine to your table.
In the distant pass, diners would hand their credit card to the waiter who
would take it somewhere and bring it back later for you to sign the slip..
With the advice not to let the card out of your sight and the requirement
to enter your PIN, mobile terminals have become a necessity.
Over Here, credit cards don't have PINs, but debit cards do. In the
supermarket, it looks like people use the two kinds about half and half.

I don't go to that many different restaurants, but IIRC in all of them
the server took the card away and brought it back with the receipt to sign.
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 14:08:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
I have generally avoided this thread, but I do keep wondering what
"mobile payment" arrangement would be if there was one. Is there some
store that has someone walking around with a cash register and credit
card machine in hand and will take payment for purchases anywhere in
the store?
I've never see that in a shop, but I've been in plenty of restaurants
where they'll bring a hand-held credit card machine to your table.
In one restaurant I know, you may have to follow the waiter to one of
the places in the dining room where the wireless system works.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you're paying cash, they'll bring your bill, take your money to
the till, and bring back your change. Shops don't do that in practice
that I'm aware of, but there is no physical reason why they couldn't.
bill
--
Corporations are neither physical nor metaphysical phenomena. They are
socioeconomic ploys — legally enacted game-playing — agreed upon only
between overwhelmingly powerful socioeconomic individuals and by them
imposed upon human society and its all unwitting members.
---Buckminster Fuller
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 15:42:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English. It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
Hah! That sense of "mobile" doesn't even come up in AmE, where we have
"cell phones" (or just "phones," not that they find much use as telephones
any more).
Post by Peter Moylan
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-05 16:34:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English.
We all seem to agree that the person who translated the sign (not a
professional translator, obviously) had a poor command of English and
also misused "cashpoint" for "checkout".
Post by Peter Moylan
It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
Nobody said that: it's the counter to go to to pay for candy, for which
mobile payment is impossible.
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
The "cashpoint" is stationary in that it includes a (large) cash register
and can't be moved around, whereas mobile checkouts are mobile because
they're just hand-held terminals.
Post by Peter Moylan
Hah! That sense of "mobile" doesn't even come up in AmE, where we have
"cell phones" (or just "phones," not that they find much use as telephones
any more).
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 19:28:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English.
We all seem to agree that the person who translated the sign (not a
professional translator, obviously) had a poor command of English and
also misused "cashpoint" for "checkout".
Post by Peter Moylan
It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
Nobody said that: it's the counter to go to to pay for candy, for which
mobile payment is impossible.
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
The "cashpoint" is stationary in that it includes a (large) cash register
and can't be moved around, whereas mobile checkouts are mobile because
they're just hand-held terminals.
Post by Peter Moylan
Hah! That sense of "mobile" doesn't even come up in AmE, where we have
"cell phones" (or just "phones," not that they find much use as telephones
any more).
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
That would work if they are also common in Australia (do you know who
Peter Moylan is?), but it's sad how desperately you cling to your wrong
interpretation, even after you've finally admitted that statione/ary is
a mistake.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-05 19:50:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Have you still not understood that my claim is that the translator
may have deliberately replaced what is "candy counter" in German by
"stationery cashpoint" in English to underline the fact that mobile
payment is impossible for candy?
Even if we accept your theory that it was a misspelling, we still have
the problem that "stationary cashpoint" does not make a lot of sense in
English.
We all seem to agree that the person who translated the sign (not a
professional translator, obviously) had a poor command of English and
also misused "cashpoint" for "checkout".
Post by Peter Moylan
It doesn't mean the place that doesn't accept mobile payments.
Nobody said that: it's the counter to go to to pay for candy, for which
mobile payment is impossible.
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
It means the cashpoint that doesn't move around. To me, it brings up
images of counters on wheels or legs that wander around the place.
The "cashpoint" is stationary in that it includes a (large) cash register
and can't be moved around, whereas mobile checkouts are mobile because
they're just hand-held terminals.
Post by Peter Moylan
Hah! That sense of "mobile" doesn't even come up in AmE, where we have
"cell phones" (or just "phones," not that they find much use as telephones
any more).
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
That would work if they are also common in Australia (do you know who
Peter Moylan is?),
??? I was responding to you.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
but it's sad how desperately you cling to your wrong
interpretation, even after you've finally admitted that statione/ary is
a mistake.
Where did you see that? I haven't, and for good reason.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Consider also: the only point of having a sign in English is for the
benefit of people who understand English but not German. Most of those
would, I imagine, be tourists or visitors who are not familiar with the
area. Telling them to go to the place where mobile payments aren't
available could leave them wondering which direction to go, while
telling them to go to the confectionery counter (which is probably the
nearest counter) is a clear direction.
s***@gmail.com
2019-11-06 06:57:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?

I wouldn't even expect that for haute couture.
(On Rodeo Drive, it has been hinted that they do it the way Peter mentioned
for uppest crust restaurants ... you get to by something if they know you,
and it goes on your tab).


[Which was the way Gentlemen bought clothes in London inthe Georgian period, AIUI]


/dps
charles
2019-11-06 08:12:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment
terminals. Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught
on in the US, but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently,
mobile payment is much more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
I wouldn't even expect that for haute couture. (On Rodeo Drive, it has
been hinted that they do it the way Peter mentioned for uppest crust
restaurants ... you get to by something if they know you, and it goes on
your tab).
[Which was the way Gentlemen bought clothes in London inthe Georgian period, AIUI]
x
and even in the second Elizabethan period in Edinburgh. At least that's
what my father did.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
s***@gmail.com
2019-11-06 09:08:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment
terminals. Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught
on in the US, but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently,
mobile payment is much more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
I wouldn't even expect that for haute couture. (On Rodeo Drive, it has
been hinted that they do it the way Peter mentioned for uppest crust
restaurants ... you get to by something if they know you, and it goes on
your tab).
I see that I was using my phone keyboard for the desktop.
Post by charles
Post by s***@gmail.com
[Which was the way Gentlemen bought clothes in London inthe Georgian period, AIUI]
x
and even in the second Elizabethan period in Edinburgh. At least that's
what my father did.
Hmmm. I think my father had an Olds & King credit card,
which was a stamped metal or plastic card by the time I saw it,
not the pin-hole system Tony once described,
and similarly for the Meier & Frank card my mother used.

(O&K was gone long before Amazon;
M&F is, I think, still around,
but has been owned from New York for several decades.
First buyer was May&Co)

(Other names I used to know: Lipman Wolfe and I Magnin,
but Joseph Magnin didn't spread our way,
and Nordstrom's not until the '80s.)

/dps "I'll remember a couple more the day after tomorrow"

(Isn't that an Avram Davidson title?
No, it seems to be a Dennis Quaid film.)
(I didn't realize when I was reading their books
that Damon Knight and Kate Wilhelm
lived down the road from me ... Eugene, Oregon.
He was born in Baker, but she was from Toledo, Ohio,
so down the road from my dad's natal residence.)
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-06 13:51:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
(O&K was gone long before Amazon;
M&F is, I think, still around,
but has been owned from New York for several decades.
First buyer was May&Co)
I've heard of the May Company but I've never seen a store of theirs (NY
or Chicago) -- not NY-based. Maybe they're among the multitude that have
been swallowed up into Macy*s?
s***@gmail.com
2019-11-07 22:27:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
(O&K was gone long before Amazon;
M&F is, I think, still around,
but has been owned from New York for several decades.
First buyer was May&Co)
I've heard of the May Company but I've never seen a store of theirs (NY
or Chicago) -- not NY-based. Maybe they're among the multitude that have
been swallowed up into Macy*s?
I think so, but it's hard to keep track.
Some of those now in Macy*s were the ones doing the front-line swallowing
in days of yore. Bullock's used to be a brand in SoCal that did that.

/dps
Tony Cooper
2019-11-08 01:00:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
(O&K was gone long before Amazon;
M&F is, I think, still around,
but has been owned from New York for several decades.
First buyer was May&Co)
I've heard of the May Company but I've never seen a store of theirs (NY
or Chicago) -- not NY-based. Maybe they're among the multitude that have
been swallowed up into Macy*s?
I think so, but it's hard to keep track.
Some of those now in Macy*s were the ones doing the front-line swallowing
in days of yore. Bullock's used to be a brand in SoCal that did that.
Macy's hasn't swallowed-up anyone in recent years. They are part of
the Federated Department Store group that also owns Bloomingdale's.
Federated also owned I. Magnin, Marshall Field's, and Filene's, but
those stores are now defunct.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-08 16:00:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
(O&K was gone long before Amazon;
M&F is, I think, still around,
but has been owned from New York for several decades.
First buyer was May&Co)
I've heard of the May Company but I've never seen a store of theirs (NY
or Chicago) -- not NY-based. Maybe they're among the multitude that have
been swallowed up into Macy*s?
I think so, but it's hard to keep track.
Some of those now in Macy*s were the ones doing the front-line swallowing
in days of yore. Bullock's used to be a brand in SoCal that did that.
Macy's hasn't swallowed-up anyone in recent years. They are part of
the Federated Department Store group that also owns Bloomingdale's.
Federated also owned I. Magnin, Marshall Field's, and Filene's, but
those stores are now defunct.
Marshall Field is not defunct; it is a Macy*s. The Other Mayor Daley
somehow even forced them to keep the old Marshall Field nameplates
next to the doors.

But they no longer make Frango Mints on the 11th floor, so who cares.

It's Carson Pirie Scott that is defunct. The last time I was there, the
landmark building (one of Louis Sullivan's best) was still empty. (And
farther down State Street, both Wiebolt's and Sears, but those two went
a long time ago.)
Tony Cooper
2019-11-08 17:42:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 08:00:36 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
(O&K was gone long before Amazon;
M&F is, I think, still around,
but has been owned from New York for several decades.
First buyer was May&Co)
I've heard of the May Company but I've never seen a store of theirs (NY
or Chicago) -- not NY-based. Maybe they're among the multitude that have
been swallowed up into Macy*s?
I think so, but it's hard to keep track.
Some of those now in Macy*s were the ones doing the front-line swallowing
in days of yore. Bullock's used to be a brand in SoCal that did that.
Macy's hasn't swallowed-up anyone in recent years. They are part of
the Federated Department Store group that also owns Bloomingdale's.
Federated also owned I. Magnin, Marshall Field's, and Filene's, but
those stores are now defunct.
Marshall Field is not defunct; it is a Macy*s. The Other Mayor Daley
somehow even forced them to keep the old Marshall Field nameplates
next to the doors.
You are wrong. Marshall Field's is defunct since 2006. The store is
now a Macy*s in the previous Marshall Field's location. The fact that
nostalgia led to leaving the signs in place is just a cosmetic
gesture.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-08 19:31:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 08:00:36 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
(O&K was gone long before Amazon;
M&F is, I think, still around,
but has been owned from New York for several decades.
First buyer was May&Co)
I've heard of the May Company but I've never seen a store of theirs (NY
or Chicago) -- not NY-based. Maybe they're among the multitude that have
been swallowed up into Macy*s?
I think so, but it's hard to keep track.
Some of those now in Macy*s were the ones doing the front-line swallowing
in days of yore. Bullock's used to be a brand in SoCal that did that.
Macy's hasn't swallowed-up anyone in recent years. They are part of
the Federated Department Store group that also owns Bloomingdale's.
Federated also owned I. Magnin, Marshall Field's, and Filene's, but
those stores are now defunct.
Marshall Field is not defunct; it is a Macy*s. The Other Mayor Daley
somehow even forced them to keep the old Marshall Field nameplates
next to the doors.
You are wrong. Marshall Field's is defunct since 2006. The store is
now a Macy*s in the previous Marshall Field's location. The fact that
nostalgia led to leaving the signs in place is just a cosmetic
gesture.
Are the brands and the quality and the service the same as they were?
Did they replace the entire sales staff when they took over?

It is the same store with a different name.

They do even still sell Frango Mints, but they're shipped from elsewhere.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-06 13:45:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged
Yes.

(and maybe weighed or measured)?

Not that I know of (in France), as scales are often built into the
check-out counter.
Post by s***@gmail.com
I wouldn't even expect that for haute couture.
(On Rodeo Drive, it has been hinted that they do it the way Peter mentioned
for uppest crust restaurants ... you get to by something if they know you,
and it goes on your tab).
[Which was the way Gentlemen bought clothes in London inthe Georgian period, AIUI]
/dps
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 17:19:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged
Yes.
(and maybe weighed or measured)?
Not that I know of (in France), as scales are often built into the
check-out counter.
I've come across that (in France), but not recently. Of the
supermarkets I regularly go to, the Monoprix has a person to weigh the
stuff and attach the label to the bag, which he doesn't seal, so it's
easy to add stuff after the label is attached (at least, I suppose so,
though I've never done it or noticed other people doing it); at the
Géant Casino you weigh the stuff yourself and get the machine to print
a label. The Monoprix bags are brown paper with a cellophane window,
and difficult to seal. The Géant Casino bags are of soft plastic, which
I usually seal myself by tying a knot, but I don't think there is any
obligation to do that. I think both companies probably decided that
policing the cheating would cost more than they lose from it. Maybe I
should go to an up-market supermarket patronized by chaps in grey suits
and observe how it is there.
My observations about different classes of producer buyers were mainly
in the same Pakbo in Compiègne.
--
In the 1970s, people began receiving utility bills for
-£999,999,996.32 and it became harder to sustain the
myth of the infallible electronic brain. (Verity Stob)
Quinn C
2019-11-06 18:07:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
Not sure what you're thinking of, but weighing your own fruit and
vegetables was the norm in the 1990s already. Although you want the eye
of a cashier on it to check if you labeled your avocados as onions.

The only things I wouldn't bag myself in Germany are those from a
staffed counter (usually meat, fish, cheese, cake).
--
Who would know aught of art must learn and then take his ease.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-07 03:47:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
Not sure what you're thinking of, but weighing your own fruit and
vegetables was the norm in the 1990s already. Although you want the eye
of a cashier on it to check if you labeled your avocados as onions.
What kind of labeling is that? Over/Down Here, things sold loose are put
in a plastic bag by the customer (scales are available in the produce
department), and the cashier puts the bag on the scale at the counter,
types in the code for the item (mostly memorized, but also there's usually
a label stuck onto every apple/orange/rutabaga), and the machine adds it
to the tally.
Post by Quinn C
The only things I wouldn't bag myself in Germany are those from a
staffed counter (usually meat, fish, cheese, cake).
Quinn C
2019-11-07 04:08:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
Not sure what you're thinking of, but weighing your own fruit and
vegetables was the norm in the 1990s already. Although you want the eye
of a cashier on it to check if you labeled your avocados as onions.
What kind of labeling is that? Over/Down Here, things sold loose are put
in a plastic bag by the customer (scales are available in the produce
department), and the cashier puts the bag on the scale at the counter,
types in the code for the item (mostly memorized, but also there's usually
a label stuck onto every apple/orange/rutabaga), and the machine adds it
to the tally.
In Germany, the customer often puts the item or bag on a scale in the
vegetable department, chooses a button for the item, and sticks the
label that the scale prints on the bag (or the bananas.) At the cash
register, the label is scanned.

Usually, the most frequently bought items have their own button, with a
picture; for rare items, it might be necessary to input a code, maybe a
number that was written next to the price on the shelf or something.

<Loading Image...>
--
Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated
until sometime after those creating it have left the organization.
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 14:17:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
Not sure what you're thinking of, but weighing your own fruit and
vegetables was the norm in the 1990s already. Although you want the eye
of a cashier on it to check if you labeled your avocados as onions.
What kind of labeling is that? Over/Down Here, things sold loose are put
in a plastic bag by the customer (scales are available in the produce
department), and the cashier puts the bag on the scale at the counter,
types in the code for the item (mostly memorized, but also there's usually
a label stuck onto every apple/orange/rutabaga), and the machine adds it
to the tally.
In Germany, the customer often puts the item or bag on a scale in the
vegetable department, chooses a button for the item, and sticks the
label that the scale prints on the bag (or the bananas.) At the cash
register, the label is scanned.
I first came across that system in French supermarkets in 1989, & I
observed that men in suits were much more likely than other customers
to cheat by adding tomatoes to the bag after printing the label.
(Similar to the Freakonomics bagel story.)
Post by Quinn C
Usually, the most frequently bought items have their own button, with a
picture; for rare items, it might be necessary to input a code, maybe a
number that was written next to the price on the shelf or something.
<https://www.pos-software.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Selbstbedienungswaage.jpg>
--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. ---plorkwort
b***@aol.com
2019-11-07 18:33:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
Not sure what you're thinking of, but weighing your own fruit and
vegetables was the norm in the 1990s already. Although you want the eye
of a cashier on it to check if you labeled your avocados as onions.
What kind of labeling is that? Over/Down Here, things sold loose are put
in a plastic bag by the customer (scales are available in the produce
department), and the cashier puts the bag on the scale at the counter,
types in the code for the item (mostly memorized, but also there's usually
a label stuck onto every apple/orange/rutabaga), and the machine adds it
to the tally.
In Germany, the customer often puts the item or bag on a scale in the
vegetable department, chooses a button for the item, and sticks the
label that the scale prints on the bag (or the bananas.) At the cash
register, the label is scanned.
I first came across that system in French supermarkets in 1989, & I
observed that men in suits were much more likely than other customers
to cheat by adding tomatoes to the bag after printing the label.
(Similar to the Freakonomics bagel story.)
I know that system, as the supermarket I usually go to has used it as
recently as 4 or 5 years ago. But I have never seen it associated with
mobile payment, which is what Snidely asked about.
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
Usually, the most frequently bought items have their own button, with a
picture; for rare items, it might be necessary to input a code, maybe a
number that was written next to the price on the shelf or something.
<https://www.pos-software.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Selbstbedienungswaage.jpg>
--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. ---plorkwort
s***@gmail.com
2019-11-07 22:25:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@aol.com
Irrelevant: "mobile" doesn't refer to phones here, but to payment terminals.
Besides, mobile payment doesn't really seem to have caught on in the US,
but the OP is about a _German_ store, and apparently, mobile payment is much
more common in Europe than in the US.
Even for items that need to be bagged (and maybe weighed or measured)?
Not sure what you're thinking of, but weighing your own fruit and
vegetables was the norm in the 1990s already. Although you want the eye
of a cashier on it to check if you labeled your avocados as onions.
The only things I wouldn't bag myself in Germany are those from a
staffed counter (usually meat, fish, cheese, cake).
here on the Left Coast, bagging fruits and vegetables in a grocery store
goes back as far as I can remember. That apparently isn't unique to the LC,
based on the trope of guys trying to pick up girls near the tomatoes.

However, those bags are taken to the front check-out registers,
and the scales in the produce department are advisory-only.

There is no cashier with a mobile terminal coming to take payment
while you're still near the mist sprayers.

I don't think I've seen a mobile terminal in a department store
(including Walmart and Target in that category), either,
although sometimes a special sale item will have standard register
wheeled out on a tea cart to handle surge sales.

On the other hand, the outdoor marketplaces that take over
the community college parking lots on weekends
are full of people with calculator-sized POS devices
or phones wearing the Square gadget.
[These are still called "swap meets",
but most of the items are being sold by repeat vendors
who get their wares wholesale.]


/dps
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-06 20:11:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
[Which was the way Gentlemen bought clothes in London inthe Georgian period, AIUI]
I'm not sure how Georgian tailors survived since it seems to have been
the mark of a Gentleman in that period to never pay your tailor.
--
Sam Plusnet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-03 22:07:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
What's unusual only seems to be the English wording of the sign.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a
specific> > > clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be
nearer the front of> > > the store (less shoplifter-worthy?),
But that would be incompatible with the German wording of the sign.
Stefan claims that that's what the sign says. Stefan wanted an
explanation.> It is not so absurd as Stefan seemed to think. See last
line below.
If you google it, you'll find there are thousands of pages about payment
in stores where "mobile" is contrasted with "stationary", including with
terms such as "mobile POS" vs "stationary POS" (where POS means "point
https://www.gk-software.com/en/products/productfinder/mobile-pos
That tends to hint at a simple misspelling rather than a cock-and-bull
scenario of the candy checkout being located in the stationery department.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
so the customer would be passing that> > > "cashpoint" (not an AmE
term) in any case.
Stefan is weird.
Well yes. That's what Rey thought.
--
athel
Quinn C
2019-11-04 19:38:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?), so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Nothing would be unusual about specifying where to pay, as in fact the
sign does. But it would be unusual to direct customers that read German
to one place (the candy checkout), but customers who read only English
to another one (the stationery checkout.) One can invent a scenario
where this makes sense - the stationery checkout is staffed by
English-speaking people -, but I find it much more likely that there
was a translation mixup of some kind.
--
... man muss oft schon Wissenschaft infrage stellen bei den Wirt-
schaftsmenschen [...] das Denken wird haeufig blockiert von einem
ideologischen Ueberbau [...] Es ist halt in vielen Teilen eher
eine Religion als eine Wissenschaft. -- Heiner Flassbeck
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-04 22:49:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
But from where in the German would he have gotten either of those words?
From nowhere. I gather (but that's unclear reading the OP) that "What's
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint." refers to a
second sign intended for English-speakers in the store - in which case
"stationery cashpoint" could be used (improperly) for "stationary
checkout" and "Süßwaren"(kasse) could be arbitrarily omitted and replaced
by "stationery" (as distinct from mobile payment options) in the English
translation.
And what would be unusual about specifying where to pay for a purchase?
Maybe they don't do enough business in candy to justify hiring a specific
clerk for that area, whereas the stationery might be nearer the front of
the store (less shoplifter-worthy?), so the customer would be passing that
"cashpoint" (not an AmE term) in any case.
Nothing would be unusual about specifying where to pay, as in fact the
sign does. But it would be unusual to direct customers that read German
to one place (the candy checkout), but customers who read only English
to another one (the stationery checkout.) One can invent a scenario
where this makes sense - the stationery checkout is staffed by
English-speaking people -, but I find it much more likely that there
was a translation mixup of some kind.
Does "stationary" make sense, that is, "Don't pay at a mobile terminal"
as bebercito suggested?

The only other possibility I can think of is that a human translator
trying to type "confectionery" made several mistakes and the poor
(in two senses) autocorrect software turned the result into
"stationery". The human was then too distracted or drunk to notice.
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2019-11-04 11:44:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Stefan Ram
. "Stationery cashpoint" for the candy checkout?
Can "stationery" mean "candies"/"confectionery"?
No, but you need to rethink and rewrite the whole message if you want
it to be answerable.
Post by Stefan Ram
Please pay
for
Post by Stefan Ram
our sweets only at the candy checkout.
The candy checkout only deals with sweets
or
The candy checkout is the only one where you can buy sweets
?
What difference do you intend between "sweets" and "candy"?
--
athel
--
In Fortran, GOD is REAL (unless declared INTEGER).
charles
2019-11-04 12:31:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I'd use 'cash desk' or 'cashier'. Some shops call them 'paypoints'.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Ken Blake
2019-11-04 15:46:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
--
Ken
charles
2019-11-04 17:43:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
"hole in the wall" is another
Post by Ken Blake
--
Ke
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Lewis
2019-11-04 19:24:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
I know I've heard cashpoint. Probably form a Brit or on a British TV
show.
--
Wherever the worm turns, he is still a worm.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-04 21:55:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is
"distributeur automatique de billets", or, more colloquially, "machine
à sous".
Post by Lewis
I know I've heard cashpoint. Probably form a Brit or on a British TV
show.
--
athel
b***@aol.com
2019-11-05 16:05:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
or, more colloquially, "machine à sous".
I've never seen or heard "machine à sous" employed with that sense. It
usually refers to slot machines.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
I know I've heard cashpoint. Probably form a Brit or on a British TV
show.
--
athel
Quinn C
2019-11-05 17:35:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
--
There is a whole cottage industry devoted to people who are
upset by the idea of others being outraged.
-- Washington Post 2019-09-18
b***@aol.com
2019-11-05 18:22:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism. The B in "GAB" seems to stand for "de Banque"
or "Bancaire", however. Do you pronounce "GAB" as a word or as "G.A.B."
in Quebec?
Post by Quinn C
--
There is a whole cottage industry devoted to people who are
upset by the idea of others being outraged.
-- Washington Post 2019-09-18
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-05 18:25:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint" used for anything at all. It's
a new term to me. The only terms I know are "ATM" (in the US) and
"Bancomat" (in much of Europe).
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is> >>
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism.
I've never come across DAB. I have, however, come across "machine à sous".
Post by b***@aol.com
The B in "GAB" seems to stand for "de Banque"
or "Bancaire", however. Do you pronounce "GAB" as a word or as "G.A.B."
in Quebec?
Post by Quinn C
--
There is a whole cottage industry devoted to people who are
upset by the idea of others being outraged.
-- Washington Post 2019-09-18
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-05 20:02:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is> >>
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism.
I've never come across DAB. I have, however, come across "machine à sous".
Is that sous 'under' or sou 'insignificant coin'?
Adam Funk
2019-11-07 14:04:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is> >>
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism.
I've never come across DAB. I have, however, come across "machine à sous".
Is that sous 'under' or sou 'insignificant coin'?
It must be the coin or unit of currency, which was abolished after the
Revolution (I mean the best-known of France's series) but was a slang
term for another small coin (5 centimes?) for quite a while.

OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
--
Radiation! Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about
it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad
for you. Pernicious nonsense! ---J Frank Parnell
Quinn C
2019-11-07 17:37:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is> >>
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism.
I've never come across DAB. I have, however, come across "machine à sous".
Is that sous 'under' or sou 'insignificant coin'?
It must be the coin or unit of currency, which was abolished after the
Revolution (I mean the best-known of France's series) but was a slang
term for another small coin (5 centimes?) for quite a while.
It's still a slang term for the penny in Canada. As penny is for what's
actually a cent.

A slang term for the quarter is trente-sous, 30 sous.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidus_(coin)#Quebec>
--
A chrysanthemum by any other name would be easier to spell.
Peter Moylan in alt.usage.english
Adam Funk
2019-11-08 11:24:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is> >>
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism.
I've never come across DAB. I have, however, come across "machine à sous".
Is that sous 'under' or sou 'insignificant coin'?
It must be the coin or unit of currency, which was abolished after the
Revolution (I mean the best-known of France's series) but was a slang
term for another small coin (5 centimes?) for quite a while.
It's still a slang term for the penny in Canada. As penny is for what's
actually a cent.
A slang term for the quarter is trente-sous, 30 sous.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidus_(coin)#Quebec>
Well, I guess that's correct to within 20%!
--
You're 100 percent correct -- it's been scientifically proven that
microwaving changes the molecular structure of food. THIS IS CALLED
COOKING, YOU NITWIT. ---Cecil Adams
b***@aol.com
2019-11-07 18:24:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is> >>
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism.
I've never come across DAB. I have, however, come across "machine à sous".
Is that sous 'under' or sou 'insignificant coin'?
It must be the coin or unit of currency, which was abolished after the
Revolution (I mean the best-known of France's series) but was a slang
term for another small coin (5 centimes?) for quite a while.
It wasn't slang, but the official name of a 5 centimes coin. It still
is, however, colloquially used for "money".
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
--
Radiation! Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about
it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad
for you. Pernicious nonsense! ---J Frank Parnell
Adam Funk
2019-11-08 11:25:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Much of Europe, I don't know, but in France the name banks use is> >>
"distributeur automatique de billets",
Also "guichet automatique".
The standard official name here in Quebec. Where you would see "ATM"
signs in the rest of Canada, it says "GAB".
In France, DAB (Distributeur Automatique de Billets) is used, both as an
acronym and an initialism.
I've never come across DAB. I have, however, come across "machine à sous".
Is that sous 'under' or sou 'insignificant coin'?
It must be the coin or unit of currency, which was abolished after the
Revolution (I mean the best-known of France's series) but was a slang
term for another small coin (5 centimes?) for quite a while.
It wasn't slang, but the official name of a 5 centimes coin. It still
is, however, colloquially used for "money".
Interesting, I didn't know it had been offical for that.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
--
Radiation! Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about
it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad
for you. Pernicious nonsense! ---J Frank Parnell
--
it's the nexus of the crisis
and the origin of storms
Peter Moylan
2019-11-07 21:00:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.

(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Katy Jennison
2019-11-07 23:49:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
--
Katy Jennison
charles
2019-11-08 09:31:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
Post by Katy Jennison
-
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-08 09:56:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
When the UK recently replaced its circular-face pound coin with a
dodecagonal face, I calculated that its purchasing power was
approximately equivalent to that enjoyed by the dodecagonal threepenny
bit at the time of its withdrawal from circulation.

I am not entirely sure that this is a coincidence.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-08 10:02:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had
been 1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in
circulation alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers
to 5p as a "shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent
coin, but the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of
circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those
of us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6Ÿp.
Post by Katy Jennison
-
Does that mean the pound is the new shilling? (assumes basic bread from
major chain at c. 55p)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-08 12:30:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
6¾d Shirley.
--
athel
musika
2019-11-08 14:28:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
6¾d Shirley.
Yes, 6¾p would be impossible and 6¾d would have to be before 1961.
--
Ray
UK
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-08 14:58:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[...] I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
6¾d Shirley.
Yes, 6¾p would be impossible
7p each, but two for 13½p?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-08 16:00:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
6¾d Shirley.
Yes, 6¾p would be impossible and 6¾d would have to be before 1961.
I was too young to know about farthings in 1947 and earlier, but when
we came back from Singapore in 1950 I saw farthings occasionally.
Already by then they were pretty rare, and I think very few things were
priced to the nearest farthing. Halfpennies, on the other hand, were
common.
--
athel
Edgcombe, Katy
2019-11-08 19:07:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of
circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
6¾d Shirley.
Yes, 6¾p would be impossible and 6¾d would have to be before 1961.
I was too young to know about farthings in 1947 and earlier, but when we
came back from Singapore in 1950 I saw farthings occasionally. Already
by then they were pretty rare, and I think very few things were priced
to the nearest farthing. Halfpennies, on the other hand, were common.
In 1950 a loaf at our local shop was fourpence farthing.
Katy
Katy Jennison
2019-11-08 19:42:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Edgcombe, Katy
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
6¾d Shirley.
Yes, 6¾p would be impossible and 6¾d would have to be before 1961.
I was too young to know about farthings in 1947 and earlier, but when
we came back from Singapore in 1950 I saw farthings occasionally.
Already by then they were pretty rare, and I think very few things
were priced to the nearest farthing. Halfpennies, on the other hand,
were common.
In 1950 a loaf at our local shop was fourpence farthing.
Katy
Ooh! Welcome back! I hope you're staying.
--
Katy Jennison
charles
2019-11-08 18:02:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
and it's probably worth less. I remember a loaf of bread was 6¾p.
6¾d Shirley.
Yes, 6¾p would be impossible and 6¾d would have to be before 1961.
yes, it should have been d and I was thinking of the late 1940s.
Post by musika
--
Ray
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Adam Funk
2019-11-08 11:26:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
Did anybody call 5p coins "shillings" until 1990?
--
Master Foo said: "A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like
a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers
it and burns his hand." ---Eric Raymond
Katy Jennison
2019-11-08 12:18:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
Did anybody call 5p coins "shillings" until 1990?
I'm sure some people did, either out of habit or as an act of defiance,
just as there were a few hold-outs refusing to buy things by the kilo or
the litre. One or two market stalls continued to sell in pounds and
ounces for years, until in the end it was made explicitly illegal.
--
Katy Jennison
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-08 12:35:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 08/11/2019 12:18, Katy Jennison wrote:
<snip>
Post by Katy Jennison
One or two market stalls continued to sell in pounds and
ounces for years, until in the end it was made explicitly illegal.
It's actually only illegal to omit the metric measurement. Goods can be
priced Imperially as long as they are *also* priced in metric and the
Imperial measurement doesn't "stand out" more than the metric measurement.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
HVS
2019-11-08 13:07:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:18:12 +0000, Katy Jennison
-snip -
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Adam Funk
Did anybody call 5p coins "shillings" until 1990?
I'm sure some people did, either out of habit or as an act of
defiance,
Post by Katy Jennison
just as there were a few hold-outs refusing to buy things by the kilo or
the litre. One or two market stalls continued to sell in pounds and
ounces for years, until in the end it was made explicitly illegal.
I moved to England in 1983, and although I saw the occasional
market-stall as you described, I can't recall anyone using "shilling"
except in jest.

The informal nicknames survived for a while, though, in phrases like
"a couple of bob" (for "not very much" rather than a precise amount).


Cheers, Harvey
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-08 12:31:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
OTOH, when the UK decimalized the currency, shilling (which had been
1/20 of a pound anyway) & 2 shilling coins remained in circulation
alongside 5p & 10p ones for a while, but noöne refers to 5p as a
"shilling" now, AFAIK.
I have occasionally heard "two bob" for the Australian 20-cent coin, but
the people who say it are getting old enough to go out of circulation.
(I have just realised that it is nearly 54 years since our currency
changed. I wouldn't have guessed nearly that long.)
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
Did anybody call 5p coins "shillings" until 1990?
Yep.

And I still do, sometimes.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Quinn C
2019-11-08 17:27:59 UTC
Reply
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Post by Katy Jennison
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
Sated?
Post by Katy Jennison
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
Guess I'd have made that "ensmallened".
Post by Katy Jennison
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
--
Manche Dinge sind vorgeschrieben, weil man sie braucht, andere
braucht man nur, weil sie vorgeschrieben sind.
-- Helmut Richter in de.etc.sprache.deutsch
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-08 18:04:36 UTC
Reply
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Post by Quinn C
Post by Katy Jennison
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
Sated?
Not to speak for Katy, but I read it as an odd typo for "stayed".
Post by Quinn C
Post by Katy Jennison
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
Guess I'd have made that "ensmallened".
Some people at the science magazine I used to work for said "smallen".
"We have to smallen that illustration." That was a few years before
"embiggen" appeared on /The Simpsons/, but anyway there's no reason to
expect the two words to be parallel.
Post by Quinn C
Post by Katy Jennison
that it's now smaller than the old farthing used to be, so that it
really bears no relation to the shilling even in the minds of those of
us who remember them.
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2019-11-08 18:26:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by Katy Jennison
If the 5pence piece had sated the same size as the shilling it might
Sated?
Not to speak for Katy, but I read it as an odd typo for "stayed".
Post by Quinn C
Post by Katy Jennison
have kept the name; but after a while (in 1990) they smallened it, so
Guess I'd have made that "ensmallened".
Some people at the science magazine I used to work for said "smallen".
"We have to smallen that illustration." That was a few years before
"embiggen" appeared on /The Simpsons/,
Wiktionary has a quotation from 1914.
Post by Jerry Friedman
but anyway there's no reason to
expect the two words to be parallel.
I might just expect it because the German equivalents both have the
same prefix: vergrößern, verkleinern. Totally normal words used when
talking about photographic prints, microscopes, photocopiers etc.
--
Pentiums melt in your PC, not in your hand.
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-04 17:23:17 UTC
Reply
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
...

You can do that at a cash register these days, though. Could Germans
use the same word for the two kinds of machines?
--
Jerry Friedman
b***@aol.com
2019-11-04 17:44:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Adam Funk
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
It may be that "stationery" is a misspelling for "stationary", so
that "stationery cashpoint" refers to the store checkout and the
sentence means that sweets can only be paid at the checkout, as opposed
to via mobile payment terminals (e.g. smartphones or tablets) as is now
possible in some stores.
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
...
You can do that at a cash register these days, though. Could Germans
use the same word for the two kinds of machines?
What I thought too. I don't speak German, but google-imaging "Bargeldpunkt"
(a literal translation of "cashpoint") returns images of both, e.g.:

https://de.dreamstime.com/stockfotos-atm-geldmaschine-automatisierter-bargeldpunkt-image12432043

and

https://de.dreamstime.com/lizenzfreie-stockbilder-bargeldpunkt-im-supermarktspeicher-image30101929
Post by Jerry Friedman
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2019-11-04 22:55:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Adam Funk
Also, "cashpoint" is BrE for ATM (machine that lets you withdraw cash
from your bank account). I don't think I've ever heard "cashpoint"
used for anything else.
...
You can do that at a cash register these days, though. Could Germans
use the same word for the two kinds of machines?
What I thought too. I don't speak German, but google-imaging "Bargeldpunkt"
https://de.dreamstime.com/stockfotos-atm-geldmaschine-automatisierter-bargeldpunkt-image12432043
and
https://de.dreamstime.com/lizenzfreie-stockbilder-bargeldpunkt-im-supermarktspeicher-image30101929
I'm not familiar with the words "Bargeldpunkt", "Geldmaschine" or
"Supermarktspeicher", and suspect they were created as literal
(automatic) translations of English words.

"Speicher" looks like a translation of "register", which might be
correct if talking about computer architecture, but in the context of a
supermarket, I would read it as "warehouse", if anything.
--
There is, at a women's college, always some emancipating
encouragement for those with masculine tastes for such things
as mathematics, philosophy, and friendship.
-- Jane Rule, This Is Not For You, p.15
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-02 22:58:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Stefan Ram
[stationary->stationery]
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
|Please pay our sweets only at the candy checkout.
|Confectionary has to be paid at our stationery cashpoint.
. "Stationery cashpoint" for the candy checkout?
Can "stationery" mean "candies"/"confectionery"?
No, but you need to rethink and rewrite the whole message if you want
it to be answerable.
Post by Stefan Ram
Please pay
for
Post by Stefan Ram
our sweets only at the candy checkout.
The candy checkout only deals with sweets
or
The candy checkout is the only one where you can buy sweets
?
What difference do you intend between "sweets" and "candy"?
BrE vs. AmE? How cosmopolitan!

There also seems to be or to have been some confusion about stationary/
stationery. (That's easy. papER ~ stationERy)
Stefan Ram
2019-11-03 10:23:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
What's written on a sign in a department store
|Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere Süßwarenartikel nur an der
|Süßwarenkasse.
Notes about my errors are highly appreciated! I am keeping a
log with my errors and am re-reading it from time to time.
I'm also sorry to bother you all with my mistakes.

If you are using an UTF-8-enabled newsreader and
a monospaced font to read this post, the sign was a printout,
apparently from a laser printer, in a kind of metal frame:

------------------------------------.
| |
| Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere |
| Süßwarenartikel nur an der |
| Süßwarenkasse. |
| Danke. |
| |
| Confectionery has to be paid at |
| our stationery cashpoint. |
| Thank you. |
| |
'------------------------------------'

. ("Süßwarenartikel" and "Süßwarenkasse" were printed in bold.)
Peter Moylan
2019-11-03 11:46:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
If you are using an UTF-8-enabled newsreader and
a monospaced font to read this post, the sign was a printout,
------------------------------------.
| |
| Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere |
| Süßwarenartikel nur an der |
| Süßwarenkasse. |
| Danke. |
| |
| Confectionery has to be paid at |
| our stationery cashpoint. |
| Thank you. |
| |
'------------------------------------'
. ("Süßwarenartikel" and "Süßwarenkasse" were printed in bold.)
This does have the appearance of being a machine translation screw-up,
so I tried submitting the German sentence to Google Translate. The
result in English was "Please pay for our sweets only at the candy box."
OK, the incorrect word "stationery" did not appear.

Still, it was a bit disconcerting to see the BrE word "sweets" and the
AmE word "candy" in the same sentence. An English speaker would be
unlikely to mix the two. On top of that, what is a candy box? "Candy"
isn't really in my vocabulary, but my understanding of the AmE meaning
is that it's a small cardboard box containing candy. (Probably a mixed
assortment.) Nothing to do with a German Kasse, which in my
understanding is a place where you hand over some money.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-03 14:26:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
If you are using an UTF-8-enabled newsreader and
a monospaced font to read this post, the sign was a printout,
------------------------------------.
| |
| Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere |
| Süßwarenartikel nur an der |
| Süßwarenkasse. |
| Danke. |
| |
| Confectionery has to be paid at |
| our stationery cashpoint. |
| Thank you. |
| |
'------------------------------------'
. ("Süßwarenartikel" and "Süßwarenkasse" were printed in bold.)
This does have the appearance of being a machine translation screw-up,
so I tried submitting the German sentence to Google Translate. The
result in English was "Please pay for our sweets only at the candy box."
OK, the incorrect word "stationery" did not appear.
Still, it was a bit disconcerting to see the BrE word "sweets" and the
AmE word "candy" in the same sentence. An English speaker would be
unlikely to mix the two. On top of that, what is a candy box? "Candy"
isn't really in my vocabulary, but my understanding of the AmE meaning
is that it's a small cardboard box containing candy. (Probably a mixed
assortment.) Nothing to do with a German Kasse, which in my
understanding is a place where you hand over some money.
Moreover, "candy box" would mean only the empty box that candy had come in.
What you give your girlfriend is a "box of candy." (Cf. Forrest Gump's
"Life is like a box of chocolates.")
Tony Cooper
2019-11-03 16:17:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:46:33 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
"Candy"
isn't really in my vocabulary, but my understanding of the AmE meaning
is that it's a small cardboard box containing candy. (Probably a mixed
assortment.) Nothing to do with a German Kasse, which in my
understanding is a place where you hand over some money.
Candy is the contents of the box, and not all candy comes in a box. We
can buy a box of candy, a bag of candy, or loose units of candy.

A pretty woman can be described as "eye candy". A person who is
afraid to do something can be called a "candy ass". I don't think
"sweet" would work as a substitute for "candy" in either expression.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ken Blake
2019-11-03 17:08:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:46:33 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
"Candy"
isn't really in my vocabulary, but my understanding of the AmE meaning
is that it's a small cardboard box containing candy. (Probably a mixed
assortment.) Nothing to do with a German Kasse, which in my
understanding is a place where you hand over some money.
Candy is the contents of the box, and not all candy comes in a box. We
can buy a box of candy, a bag of candy, or loose units of candy.
A pretty woman can be described as "eye candy". A person who is
afraid to do something can be called a "candy ass". I don't think
"sweet" would work as a substitute for "candy" in either expression.
And "candy" wouldn't work as a substitute for "sweet" in "You bet your
sweet ass I am."
--
Ken
Peter Moylan
2019-11-04 00:34:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:46:33 +1100, Peter Moylan
"Candy" isn't really in my vocabulary, but my understanding of the
AmE meaning is that it's a small cardboard box containing candy.
(Probably a mixed assortment.) Nothing to do with a German Kasse,
which in my understanding is a place where you hand over some
money.
Candy is the contents of the box, and not all candy comes in a box.
We can buy a box of candy, a bag of candy, or loose units of candy.
Yes, but you snipped the part that said that the term under discussion
wasn't "candy", but "candy box".
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Quinn C
2019-11-04 19:35:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
If you are using an UTF-8-enabled newsreader and
a monospaced font to read this post, the sign was a printout,
------------------------------------.
| |
| Bitte bezahlen Sie unsere |
| Süßwarenartikel nur an der |
| Süßwarenkasse. |
| Danke. |
| |
| Confectionery has to be paid at |
| our stationery cashpoint. |
| Thank you. |
| |
'------------------------------------'
. ("Süßwarenartikel" and "Süßwarenkasse" were printed in bold.)
This does have the appearance of being a machine translation screw-up,
so I tried submitting the German sentence to Google Translate. The
result in English was "Please pay for our sweets only at the candy box."
OK, the incorrect word "stationery" did not appear.
Still, it was a bit disconcerting to see the BrE word "sweets" and the
AmE word "candy" in the same sentence. An English speaker would be
unlikely to mix the two. On top of that, what is a candy box? "Candy"
isn't really in my vocabulary, but my understanding of the AmE meaning
is that it's a small cardboard box containing candy. (Probably a mixed
assortment.) Nothing to do with a German Kasse, which in my
understanding is a place where you hand over some money.
A "Kasse" in general is where money is kept. When I buy sweets in our
company kitchen, I put money in a box which could be called "Kasse" in
German. It's a cognate of "cash". We've talked before about how in
Canada, you can pay "at the cash". That's a very similar usage to the
German in the sign.

A human translator would understand that inside a store, the "Kasse"
would be a Registerkasse, a cash register, not just a box.
--
... it might be nice to see ourselves reflected in TV shows and
Pride season campaigns, but the cis white men who invented the
gender binary still own the damn mirror.
-- Delilah Friedler at slate.com
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