Discussion:
possessive
(too old to reply)
arthurvv vart
2021-01-24 06:39:07 UTC
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Can one use:

1) My daughter and John's arrival brought us great relief.
2) John and my daughter's arrival brought us great relief.

instead of:

1a) The arrival of my daughter and John brought us great relief.
2a) The arrival of John and my daughter brought us great relief.

I think '1' and '2' sound pretty bad, but are they ungrammatical?

Gratefully,
Navi
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-01-24 07:22:48 UTC
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Post by arthurvv vart
1) My daughter and John's arrival brought us great relief.
2) John and my daughter's arrival brought us great relief.
1a) The arrival of my daughter and John brought us great relief.
2a) The arrival of John and my daughter brought us great relief.
I think '1' and '2' sound pretty bad, but are they ungrammatical?
They're all crazy. Who is John? Your son or your son-in-law or someone
else? Regardless, why name him and not your daughter? Do you not know
her name? How come? Why great relief? Relief from what?

If you must invent your own sentences (rather than looking for real
ones) do try to invent ones that could plausibly be said.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
arthurvv vart
2021-01-24 09:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by arthurvv vart
1) My daughter and John's arrival brought us great relief.
2) John and my daughter's arrival brought us great relief.
1a) The arrival of my daughter and John brought us great relief.
2a) The arrival of John and my daughter brought us great relief.
I think '1' and '2' sound pretty bad, but are they ungrammatical?
They're all crazy. Who is John? Your son or your son-in-law or someone
else? Regardless, why name him and not your daughter? Do you not know
her name? How come? Why great relief? Relief from what?
If you must invent your own sentences (rather than looking for real
ones) do try to invent ones that could plausibly be said.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Thank you very much, Athel,

You are right. My apologies. I construct these stories in my head around the sentences and then I sort of think everybody will construct the same stories around my sentences immediately! I am sorry.

My daughter and John were away. We were worried about them. Their arrival was a great relief.

But the question is about the 'possessive construct' and the relief part is not important.

Let say John is a friend of the family that the speaker and the addressee know very well and refer to as 'John'.

Gratefully,
Navi
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-01-24 10:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by arthurvv vart
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by arthurvv vart
1) My daughter and John's arrival brought us great relief.
2) John and my daughter's arrival brought us great relief.
1a) The arrival of my daughter and John brought us great relief.
2a) The arrival of John and my daughter brought us great relief.
I think '1' and '2' sound pretty bad, but are they ungrammatical?
They're all crazy. Who is John? Your son or your son-in-law or someone
else? Regardless, why name him and not your daughter? Do you not know
her name? How come? Why great relief? Relief from what?
If you must invent your own sentences (rather than looking for real
ones) do try to invent ones that could plausibly be said.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Thank you very much, Athel,
You are right. My apologies. I construct these stories in my head
around the sentences and then I sort of think everybody will construct
the same stories around my sentences immediately! I am sorry.
My daughter and John were away. We were worried about them. Their
arrival was a great relief.
That still implies that you don't know your daughter's name or how John
is related to her. Better something like this:

My daughter Ermintrude and her husband John were away. We were worried
about their driving in thick fog, and so their arrival was a great
relief.
Post by arthurvv vart
But the question is about the 'possessive construct'
Don't worry about the "passive construct" when there are simpler and
clearer ways of saying it.
Post by arthurvv vart
and the relief part is not important.
Let say John is a friend of the family that the speaker and the
addressee know very well and refer to as 'John'.
You'd still expect the speaker and addressee to know the name of your daughter.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Rich Ulrich
2021-01-25 02:14:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 01:44:35 -0800 (PST), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by arthurvv vart
1) My daughter and John's arrival brought us great relief.
2) John and my daughter's arrival brought us great relief.
1a) The arrival of my daughter and John brought us great relief.
2a) The arrival of John and my daughter brought us great relief.
I think '1' and '2' sound pretty bad, but are they ungrammatical?
They're all crazy. Who is John? Your son or your son-in-law or someone
else? Regardless, why name him and not your daughter? Do you not know
her name? How come? Why great relief? Relief from what?
If you must invent your own sentences (rather than looking for real
ones) do try to invent ones that could plausibly be said.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Thank you very much, Athel,
You are right. My apologies. I construct these stories in my head around the sentences and then I sort of think everybody will construct the same stories around my sentences immediately! I am sorry.
My daughter and John were away. We were worried about them. Their arrival was a great relief.
But the question is about the 'possessive construct' and the relief part is not important.
Let say John is a friend of the family that the speaker and the addressee know very well and refer to as 'John'.
"My daughter's arrival - and John's - brought us great relief."
--
Rich Ulrich
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-25 13:47:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 01:44:35 -0800 (PST), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by arthurvv vart
1) My daughter and John's arrival brought us great relief.
2) John and my daughter's arrival brought us great relief.
1a) The arrival of my daughter and John brought us great relief.
2a) The arrival of John and my daughter brought us great relief.
I think '1' and '2' sound pretty bad, but are they ungrammatical?
They're all crazy. Who is John? Your son or your son-in-law or someone
else? Regardless, why name him and not your daughter? Do you not know
her name? How come? Why great relief? Relief from what?
If you must invent your own sentences (rather than looking for real
ones) do try to invent ones that could plausibly be said.
Thank you very much, Athel,
You are right. My apologies. I construct these stories in my head around the sentences and then I sort of think everybody will construct the same stories around my sentences immediately! I am sorry.
My daughter and John were away. We were worried about them. Their arrival was a great relief.
But the question is about the 'possessive construct' and the relief part is not important.
Let say John is a friend of the family that the speaker and the addressee know very well and refer to as 'John'.
"My daughter's arrival - and John's - brought us great relief."
Though we couldn't help wondering why they didn't arrive together.
CDB
2021-01-24 13:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
1) My daughter and John's arrival brought us great relief. 2) John
and my daughter's arrival brought us great relief.
1a) The arrival of my daughter and John brought us great relief.
2a) The arrival of John and my daughter brought us great relief.
I think '1' and '2' sound pretty bad, but are they ungrammatical?
They're all crazy. Who is John? Your son or your son-in-law or
someone else? Regardless, why name him and not your daughter? Do you
not know her name? How come? Why great relief? Relief from what?
If you must invent your own sentences (rather than looking for real
ones) do try to invent ones that could plausibly be said.
As to (1) and (3): we know but little of AV's personal and professional
lives. Maybe his daughter and his John happened by at the same time.
--
At $4.00 extra for the relief, presumably.
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