Discussion:
'Gaslighting' language - what could it mean?
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occam
2021-03-26 09:41:46 UTC
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In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
women" there is the following sentence:

"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "

I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs. "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
soup
2021-03-26 10:35:39 UTC
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Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs. "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A rough idea of "gaslighting" is denying you said something to make the
person doubt themselves, "I told you last week I was going to be out"
when you had no such declaration

Generally it refers(ish) to a process of lying to some one to make them
doubt the facts or even (in extremis) their own beliefs

From https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person or group
makes someone question their sanity, perception of reality, or memories.
People experiencing gaslighting often feel confused, anxious, and unable
to trust themselves.

The term gaslighting derives from the 1938 play and 1944 film Gaslight,
in which a husband manipulates his wife into thinking she has a mental
illness by dimming their gas-fueled lights and telling her she is
hallucinating.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-26 14:37:58 UTC
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Post by soup
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs. "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A rough idea of "gaslighting" is denying you said something to make the
person doubt themselves, "I told you last week I was going to be out"
when you had no such declaration
Generally it refers(ish) to a process of lying to some one to make them
doubt the facts or even (in extremis) their own beliefs
From https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person or group
makes someone question their sanity, perception of reality, or
memories. People experiencing gaslighting often feel confused, anxious,
and unable to trust themselves.
The term gaslighting derives from the 1938 play and 1944 film Gaslight,
in which a husband manipulates his wife into thinking she has a mental
illness by dimming their gas-fueled lights and telling her she is
hallucinating.
https://crooksandliars.com/2021/03/trump-defends-capitol-hill-rioters
today starts with the following statement:

To hear Trump /gaslight/^w tell it, the Capitol riot of January 6th was
a lovefest between the rioters and the police who invited them in. 

"gaslight" is struck through, but anyway, it doesn't seem to fir the
definition.

I hope I'm using ^w correctly: I've never used it before.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Chrysi Cat
2021-03-26 20:04:13 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by soup
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.  "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A rough idea of "gaslighting" is denying you said something to make
the person doubt themselves, "I told you last week I was going to be
out" when you had no such declaration
Generally it refers(ish) to a process of lying to some one to make
them doubt the facts or even (in extremis) their own beliefs
 From https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person or group
makes someone question their sanity, perception of reality, or
memories. People experiencing gaslighting often feel confused,
anxious, and unable to trust themselves.
The term gaslighting derives from the 1938 play and 1944 film
Gaslight, in which a husband manipulates his wife into thinking she
has a mental illness by dimming their gas-fueled lights and telling
her she is hallucinating.
https://crooksandliars.com/2021/03/trump-defends-capitol-hill-rioters
To hear Trump /gaslight/^w tell it, the Capitol riot of January 6th was
a lovefest between the rioters and the police who invited them in.
"gaslight" is struck through, but anyway, it doesn't seem to fir the
definition.
Oh, it DEFINITELY fits the definition.

First off, C&L used strikethrough not because they were agreeing this
wasn't gaslighting, but in a passive-aggressive accusation that it WAS.
You've been gone from the Anglosphere too long if this isn't part of
your toolkit regarding written "rhetoric".

Second, Trump is /entirely/ telling people to believe what he's telling
them now, and that their memories of the actual event are completely false.

And he's trying to induce false memories to boot.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Lewis
2021-03-26 21:48:13 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://crooksandliars.com/2021/03/trump-defends-capitol-hill-rioters
To hear Trump /gaslight/^w tell it, the Capitol riot of January 6th was
a lovefest between the rioters and the police who invited them in. 
"gaslight" is struck through, but anyway, it doesn't seem to fir the
definition.
verb (gaslights, gaslighting, gaslighted) [with object]
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own
sanity: in the first episode, Karen Valentine is being gaslighted by her
husband. [from the storyline of the film Gaslight (1944), in which a man
psychologically manipulates his wife into believing that she is going
insane.]
--
Nothing is impossible for those who don't have to do it.
Snidely
2021-05-03 20:30:24 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I hope I'm using ^w correctly: I've never used it before.
Do Macs give you access to a bash command line? Am I right that
FreeBSD plays heavily into modern Mac OSes?

/dps
--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)
Lewis
2021-05-03 21:06:04 UTC
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Post by Snidely
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I hope I'm using ^w correctly: I've never used it before.
Do Macs give you access to a bash command line?
Yes, thought the default is zsh now.
Post by Snidely
Am I right that FreeBSD plays heavily into modern Mac OSes?
Darwin (the UNIX underpinnings of macOS) is based on BSD and a mach
kernel, not on FreeBSD, but there's some connection there.
--
Hyman: Things on my head hurt.
Margo: Life is pain. Ovary up.
Hyman: I am not a hero. I am a man tethered to a machine for poop and
humiliation, and I abhor it. I said good day.
Garrett Wollman
2021-05-03 21:35:43 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Snidely
Do Macs give you access to a bash command line?
Yes, thought the default is zsh now.
Post by Snidely
Am I right that FreeBSD plays heavily into modern Mac OSes?
Darwin (the UNIX underpinnings of macOS) is based on BSD and a mach
kernel, not on FreeBSD, but there's some connection there.
At various points in the past, Darwin has merged parts of FreeBSD's
userland. Mostly it has been a one-way flow, although we (FreeBSD)
benefit a lot from Apple's investment in LLVM, the compiler suite
behind Xcode.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
J. J. Lodder
2021-05-03 21:33:30 UTC
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Post by Snidely
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I hope I'm using ^w correctly: I've never used it before.
Do Macs give you access to a bash command line? Am I right that
FreeBSD plays heavily into modern Mac OSes?
Certainly, it is all still there, deep down.
And you can run the Mac from the command line,
if you are a UNIX geek,

Jan
occam
2021-03-26 14:42:12 UTC
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Post by soup
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.  "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A rough idea of "gaslighting" is denying you said something to make the
person doubt themselves, "I told you last week I was going to be out"
when you had no such declaration
Generally it refers(ish) to a process of lying to some one to make them
doubt the facts or even (in extremis) their own beliefs
From https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person or group
makes someone question their sanity, perception of reality, or memories.
People experiencing gaslighting often feel confused, anxious, and unable
to trust themselves.
The term gaslighting derives from the 1938 play and 1944 film Gaslight,
in which a husband manipulates his wife into thinking she has a mental
illness by dimming their gas-fueled lights and telling her she is
hallucinating.
Thanks for the pointer to the 1944 film. I wonder if they are any other
films (or film titles) that have contributed to the language. As
etymologies go, you have to admit it is an odd one.
Stefan Ram
2021-03-26 15:32:41 UTC
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Post by occam
films (or film titles) that have contributed to the language.
Not contributed, but an example of the activity can be seen
in "Mr. Monk and the Girl Who Cried Wolf" (Monk S03E06),
where someone is trying to gaslight Sharona.

This episode also features a language book:
Holt's "Literature and Language Arts" (because in this
episode Sharona attends a creative writing class).
Horace LaBadie
2021-03-26 19:50:41 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by soup
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.  "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A rough idea of "gaslighting" is denying you said something to make the
person doubt themselves, "I told you last week I was going to be out"
when you had no such declaration
Generally it refers(ish) to a process of lying to some one to make them
doubt the facts or even (in extremis) their own beliefs
From https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person or group
makes someone question their sanity, perception of reality, or memories.
People experiencing gaslighting often feel confused, anxious, and unable
to trust themselves.
The term gaslighting derives from the 1938 play and 1944 film Gaslight,
in which a husband manipulates his wife into thinking she has a mental
illness by dimming their gas-fueled lights and telling her she is
hallucinating.
Thanks for the pointer to the 1944 film. I wonder if they are any other
films (or film titles) that have contributed to the language. As
etymologies go, you have to admit it is an odd one.
In the same psychological vein:
"She's trying to single-white-female her."

<https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=single%20white%20female>

More recent.

"He was catfished."

From the 2010 movie.
Janet
2021-03-26 13:06:02 UTC
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In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@nowhere.nix
says...
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs. "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A very familiar term on womens' social media.

Janet.
Peter Moylan
2021-03-27 01:52:10 UTC
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Post by Janet
says...
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and
doubting victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very
obvious. Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the
same time, they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than
current lightbulbs. "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A very familiar term on womens' social media.
I first heard the term when I was accused of it. My then-wife and I had
different memories of events so often that her psychiatrist thought I
was gaslighting her. He changed his mind after meeting me, and
eventually suggested to me that I read up on narcissism.

But in the intervening times, when I had to submit to things like memory
assessments, I did reach the point of doubting my own sanity. I twas not
a pleasant experience.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Graham
2021-03-27 14:24:11 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Janet
says...
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and
doubting victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very
obvious. Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the
same time, they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than
current lightbulbs.  "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
A very familiar term on womens' social media.
I first heard the term when I was accused of it. My then-wife and I had
different memories of events so often that her psychiatrist thought I
was gaslighting her.
30 years ago, pop-psychology books referred to it as "crazy-making". My
ex indulged in it.



He changed his mind after meeting me, and
Post by Peter Moylan
eventually suggested to me that I read up on narcissism.
But in the intervening times, when I had to submit to things like memory
assessments, I did reach the point of doubting my own sanity. I twas not
a pleasant experience.
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-26 15:48:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
It is best described as pale, greenish,
depending on which gas, and what glowing body.

Since its spectrum differs from a black body one
the concept of colour temperature applies only approximatively.

Jan
charles
2021-03-26 16:46:22 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
Certainly gas street lights were around before electric ones. My parents
house, built c 1900 had a fixed gas light in the kitchen - prior to
electricity being installed. Candles would have been used in the rest of
the house.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Lewis
2021-03-26 21:46:01 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
Certainly gas street lights were around before electric ones. My parents
house, built c 1900 had a fixed gas light in the kitchen - prior to
electricity being installed. Candles would have been used in the rest of
the house.
In Denver many of the nicer house in the late 1800s into the 1920s had
dual fixtures that were electric and gas for when the electricity didn't
work.
--
"Two years from now, spam will be solved," -- Bill Gates, January,
2004
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-26 21:59:23 UTC
Reply
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Post by charles
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
Certainly gas street lights were around before electric ones. My parents
house, built c 1900 had a fixed gas light in the kitchen - prior to
electricity being installed. Candles would have been used in the rest of
the house.
Data point: Phileas Fogg had gaslight in Savile Row in 1870,
and he certainly wasn't the only one.

Jan
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-28 17:32:09 UTC
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On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:46:22 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
Certainly gas street lights were around before electric ones. My parents
house, built c 1900 had a fixed gas light in the kitchen - prior to
electricity being installed. Candles would have been used in the rest of
the house.
I read a report some years ago about the introduction of electricity to
homes in deeply rural parts of Ireland. One of the householders was
asked for his comments. He said that the electric light was very useful.
It made it much easier to light the oil lamps after dark.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
occam
2021-03-29 12:37:14 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:46:22 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
Certainly gas street lights were around before electric ones. My parents
house, built c 1900 had a fixed gas light in the kitchen - prior to
electricity being installed. Candles would have been used in the rest of
the house.
I read a report some years ago about the introduction of electricity to
homes in deeply rural parts of Ireland. One of the householders was
asked for his comments. He said that the electric light was very useful.
It made it much easier to light the oil lamps after dark.
<smile> I hope that is a true story, and not just an Irish joke.
Garrett Wollman
2021-03-26 18:03:42 UTC
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Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
It is best described as pale, greenish,
depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Gaslight" does not refer to emissions of electrically excited gases.

It refers specifically to household lighting fixtures burning
"illuminating gas" (coal gas, town gas, synthesis gas, it goes by many
names -- a mixture of hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and water vapor)
using a thoria-ceria impregnated fabric mantle. The discovery of the
correct ratio of thorium to cerium to produce a brilliant white light
in the late 19th centry briefly provided competition to the nascent
electric illuminating industry: town gas was cheaper and many people
already had it in their homes for heating and cooking.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-26 21:59:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by J. J. Lodder
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
It is best described as pale, greenish,
depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Gaslight" does not refer to emissions of electrically excited gases.
Noboody said it does.
Post by Garrett Wollman
It refers specifically to household lighting fixtures burning
"illuminating gas" (coal gas, town gas, synthesis gas, it goes by many
names -- a mixture of hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and water vapor)
using a thoria-ceria impregnated fabric mantle. The discovery of the
correct ratio of thorium to cerium to produce a brilliant white light
in the late 19th centry briefly provided competition to the nascent
electric illuminating industry: town gas was cheaper and many people
already had it in their homes for heating and cooking.
It was in fact far superior, in terms of efficiency and light quality.
What killed it was the inherent danger of gas poisoning
and explosions in case of leaks, or flames going out.

Those of us whow went camping on holidays
will have seen gaslight as provided by CampingGaz.
(don't know what Americans had instead)

The mantles must have been nearly the same,
and I don't think that burning butane instead of H2/CO
will make much difference to the light,

Jan
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-27 00:03:12 UTC
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On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 3:59:26 PM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
...
Post by J. J. Lodder
Those of us whow went camping on holidays
will have seen gaslight as provided by CampingGaz.
(don't know what Americans had instead)
...

Coleman lanterns, as Chrysi said. The fuel is called Coleman fuel or
white gas. It seems to be pentane through nonane. Other brands are
probably available.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2021-03-27 02:02:59 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Garrett Wollman
That is a common misunderstanding. (based on the idea of
progress, perhaps?) Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs. It is best described as
pale, greenish, depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Gaslight" does not refer to emissions of electrically excited gases.
Noboody said it does.
But a few people might have been thinking it. The obvious assumption is
that the light is given off by the burning gas. Not everyone knows about
the role of the mantle, so Garrett's explanation is useful.

Something similar happens with fluorescent tubes. The ultraviolet light
produced by the electric current is not suitable for house lighting.
It's converted to more useful frequencies by a phosphor coating on the
inside of the tube.
Post by J. J. Lodder
Those of us whow went camping on holidays will have seen gaslight as
provided by CampingGaz. (don't know what Americans had instead)
In Australia the brand name is Camping Gas.
Post by J. J. Lodder
The mantles must have been nearly the same, and I don't think that
burning butane instead of H2/CO will make much difference to the
light,
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Garrett Wollman
2021-03-27 04:28:13 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Something similar happens with fluorescent tubes. The ultraviolet light
produced by the electric current is not suitable for house lighting.
ObPedant: produced by the electrically excited mercury vapor.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-28 17:46:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 13:02:59 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Garrett Wollman
That is a common misunderstanding. (based on the idea of
progress, perhaps?) Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs. It is best described as
pale, greenish, depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Gaslight" does not refer to emissions of electrically excited gases.
Noboody said it does.
But a few people might have been thinking it. The obvious assumption is
that the light is given off by the burning gas. Not everyone knows about
the role of the mantle, so Garrett's explanation is useful.
Something similar happens with fluorescent tubes. The ultraviolet light
produced by the electric current is not suitable for house lighting.
It's converted to more useful frequencies by a phosphor coating on the
inside of the tube.
Post by J. J. Lodder
Those of us whow went camping on holidays will have seen gaslight as
provided by CampingGaz. (don't know what Americans had instead)
In Australia the brand name is Camping Gas.
In the UK the brand name is CampingGaz (The Coleman Company Inc).

Camping Gas is a descriptive term that includes CampingGaz and other
brands.
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
The mantles must have been nearly the same, and I don't think that
burning butane instead of H2/CO will make much difference to the
light,
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-26 18:31:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
It is best described as pale, greenish,
depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Glowing body"? The townhouse I visited in Chicago, where
the illuminating gas had been reconnected, had a chandelier
with dozens of jets of blue flame just like the ones on the
stove (since it was the same gas). Nothing to glow.
Post by J. J. Lodder
Since its spectrum differs from a black body one
the concept of colour temperature applies only approximatively.
charles
2021-03-26 20:09:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
It is best described as pale, greenish,
depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Glowing body"? The townhouse I visited in Chicago, where
the illuminating gas had been reconnected, had a chandelier
with dozens of jets of blue flame just like the ones on the
stove (since it was the same gas). Nothing to glow.
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Stefan Ram
2021-03-26 20:22:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Chrysi Cat
2021-03-26 21:21:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Gas mantles can be constructed of materials that emit nothing greater
than background radiation, though.

Coleman lanterns, after all, are still a thing at campsites.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Quinn C
2021-03-27 23:00:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Gas mantles can be constructed of materials that emit nothing greater
than background radiation, though.
Coleman lanterns, after all, are still a thing at campsites.
Wikipedia says they've changed from Thorium to Yttrium because of the
concerns (or because of their own concerns of lawsuits.)

"In the early 90s".
<https://www.straightdope.com/21343617/are-camp-lanterns-radioactive>
--
George: You don't know these people. They find emotions disgusting.
They just want to have a good time and make jokes.
Mae: Oh, so they're British?
-- Feel Good
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-26 23:08:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was invented.

(Down pedants!)
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-28 17:47:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was invented.
(Down pedants!)
Do pedants glow if they get hot?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-28 18:51:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was invented.
(Down pedants!)
Do pedants glow if they get hot?
Only black ones,

Jan

(how long still to the banishment as racist
of black bodies and black holes?)
Peter Moylan
2021-03-29 00:32:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the
jets. It's the mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to
avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was
invented.
(Down pedants!)
Do pedants glow if they get hot?
Only black ones,
(how long still to the banishment as racist of black bodies and
black holes?)
Black holes are already banned in Russia. The equivalent Russian phrase
is obscene, I gather.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Graham
2021-03-29 00:40:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the
jets. It's the mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to
avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was invented.
(Down pedants!)
Do pedants glow if they get hot?
Only black ones,
(how long still to the banishment as racist of black bodies and
black holes?)
Black holes are already banned in Russia. The equivalent Russian phrase
is obscene, I gather.
ISTR that, because of its racial overtone, the term "Accident Black
Spot" has been changed to "Accident Hot Spot" in parts of England.
Peter Moylan
2021-03-29 01:27:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graham
ISTR that, because of its racial overtone, the term "Accident Black
Spot" has been changed to "Accident Hot Spot" in parts of England.
We still have signs by the road saying "This is a government funded
black spot", as if the government has a mission to create black spots.

We've just had Coon Cheese renamed, and now there's a debate about Coon
Island, in Lake Macquarie.

Apparently it got its name because the sole occupant, who was a coal
miner, was nicknamed Coon because of his black face. Most people, even
those who thought the cheese didn't need changing, agree that that's a
good reason for renaming the island.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-29 08:27:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the
jets. It's the mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to
avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was invented.
(Down pedants!)
Do pedants glow if they get hot?
Only black ones,
(how long still to the banishment as racist of black bodies and
black holes?)
Black holes are already banned in Russia. The equivalent Russian phrase
is obscene, I gather.
Looking up the etymology I find 'black hole' ascribed to Robert Dicke,
who compared those super-dense objects to 'The Black Hole of Calcutta'.

So that should be renamed first,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-28 19:07:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was invented.
(Down pedants!)
Do pedants glow if they get hot?
Some quickly become incandescent.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Quinn C
2021-03-29 03:58:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by charles
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
Such gas mantles often are radioactive, so I'd suggest to avoid them.
Well yes, but this was all the rage before radioactivity was invented.
(Down pedants!)
Do pedants glow if they get hot?
Maybe the ones who take up the mantle of pedantry.
--
Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct
in which the score is kept.
-- Doug Larson
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-26 21:57:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
It is best described as pale, greenish,
depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Glowing body"? The townhouse I visited in Chicago, where
the illuminating gas had been reconnected, had a chandelier
with dozens of jets of blue flame just like the ones on the
stove (since it was the same gas). Nothing to glow.
That's because they hadn't fitted a gas mantles over the jets. It's the
mantle that glows
The fixture had obviously not been designed to accommodate
mantles. The jets were about as close together as the jets on a
stove's gas ring. There were either concentric circles of jets, or
diminishing circles forming a cone. Wall sconces would have
had globes around them.
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-26 21:59:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs.
That is a common misunderstanding.
(based on the idea of progress, perhaps?)
Gaslight is not in some way intermediate
between candle light and light bulbs.
It is best described as pale, greenish,
depending on which gas, and what glowing body.
"Glowing body"? The townhouse I visited in Chicago, where
the illuminating gas had been reconnected, had a chandelier
with dozens of jets of blue flame just like the ones on the
stove (since it was the same gas). Nothing to glow.
Then hardly any light.
Gaslight needs a mantle that is heated by the gas to make it glow.
Perhaps they couldn't find any,

Jan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Since its spectrum differs from a black body one
the concept of colour temperature applies only approximatively.
pensive hamster
2021-03-29 12:25:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
In a BBC News story titled "Australian MP apologises over comments to
"Ms Higgins has accused him of using "gaslighting" language and doubting
victims. "
I had not heard this expression before. Nor is its meaning very obvious.
Gaslights were dimmer than current electric lights. At the same time,
they gave a warmer glow (lower Kelvin temperature) than current
lightbulbs. "Gaslighting language" has stumped me.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56532248
I think the term "gaslighting" was originally an American term, but
has started to be fairly widely used in the UK, prompted by a 2016
storyline in The Archers (on BBC Radio 4):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/05/the-archers-domestic-abuse-gaslighting-sanity-abusive-relationship
'The Archers domestic abuse is classic "gaslighting"– very real,
little understood'

One of the comments following that article reads:

'I think the article is slightly mistaken about the details of the term's
origin. It does indeed stem from the film "Gaslight" but the flickering
/ dimming of the gas lighting was not a deliberate ploy by the husband.
It was as a result of him turning on the gas lights in the supposedly
deserted upper floors of their house, which he entered secretly from
the empty house next door in order to search for a jewel which he had
failed to find when he killed the woman who used to live in their house.
Since he couldn't avoid causing the gas lights to dim and the sounds
from upstairs, he told her that she must be hallucinating them. He did
also take deliberate steps to feed her fears by hiding small objects
and then "finding" them amongst her possessions, then accusing her
of stealing them, and subjecting her to public humiliations designed to
undermine her will.'

Apparently Oxford Dictionaries named 'gaslighting' as one of the most
popular words of 2018. Wikipedia defines it as:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting
'Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person
or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or
group, making them question their own memory, perception, or
judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other
changes including low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection,
contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to
destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs.'
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