Discussion:
in case
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arthurvv vart
2021-04-04 01:55:02 UTC
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1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.

Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?

Gratefully,
Navi
s***@my-deja.com
2021-04-04 02:13:34 UTC
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Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
A bit wordy but you have avoided the number one trap of compounding the "if" clause.
Stefan Ram
2021-04-04 02:17:05 UTC
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Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to
protect myself against the sun.
This "didn't ... in case" might be possible in English;
I don't know.

For me, personally, however, "didn't ... /for/ the case"
sounds more natural here since it is no longer an
explanation before or at the happening of the umbrella
taking, but apparently a later explanation, where the time
at which it could rain has perhaps already become past.

"I didn't bring the umbrella for the case of rain,
but rather to protect myself from the sun."
Lewis
2021-04-04 11:30:43 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to
protect myself against the sun.
This "didn't ... in case" might be possible in English;
It is.
Post by Stefan Ram
"I didn't bring the umbrella for the case of rain,
That sounds like some translated poorly into English. At least no AmE
speaker would say that.
--
"There will always be women in rubber flirting with me."
Peter Moylan
2021-04-04 01:34:15 UTC
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Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect
myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it
rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical? Are they idiomatic?
Technically correct, I suppose, but at least for me both examples are
misleading. The first sentence of each pair seems to say "I thought it
might rain, so I didn't take the umbrella."
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-04 09:47:55 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect
myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it
rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical? Are they idiomatic?
Technically correct, I suppose, but at least for me both examples are
misleading. The first sentence of each pair seems to say "I thought it
might rain, so I didn't take the umbrella."
If you wrote "I took the umbrella as a sun shade" it would be obvious
that you didn't take it for the rain, so there is no point in saying so.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Jack
2021-04-04 14:55:01 UTC
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On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 18:55:02 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
I'm taking the umbrella for a little shade, not for rain.
Jack
2021-04-04 16:30:13 UTC
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Post by Jack
On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 18:55:02 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
I'm taking the umbrella for a little shade, not for rain.
I'm using the umbrella a
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-04 19:38:19 UTC
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Post by Jack
On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 18:55:02 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect
myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to
protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
I'm taking the umbrella for a little shade, not for rain.
I'm using the umbrella as a parasol, not a parapluie.
I'm using the umbrella in the etymological sense.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-05 00:03:06 UTC
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Post by Jack
On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 18:55:02 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
I'm taking the umbrella for a little shade, not for rain.
I'm using the umbrella as a parasol, not a parapluie.
Umbrella already means a device for providing shade, no sense in being
redundantly repetitious.
--
Ten Minutes ago you beat a man senseless.
He was senseless before I beat him.
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-05 01:04:16 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Jack
On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 18:55:02 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
I'm taking the umbrella for a little shade, not for rain.
I'm using the umbrella as a parasol, not a parapluie.
Umbrella already means a device for providing shade, no sense in being
redundantly repetitious.
This seems a departure from (what I take to be) your usual attitude in
which a word means whatever a loose consensus of people understand it to
mean - even if that is completely at odds with the etymology.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Lewis
2021-04-05 02:58:58 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Jack
On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 18:55:02 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
I'm taking the umbrella for a little shade, not for rain.
I'm using the umbrella as a parasol, not a parapluie.
Umbrella already means a device for providing shade, no sense in being
redundantly repetitious.
This seems a departure from (what I take to be) your usual attitude in
which a word means whatever a loose consensus of people understand it to
mean - even if that is completely at odds with the etymology.
Yes, it was a silly response to a silly response.
--
These budget numbers are not just estimates, these are the actual
results for the fiscal year that ended February the 30th. - GWB
Ken Blake
2021-04-04 15:42:05 UTC
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Post by arthurvv vart
1) I didn't take the umbrella in case it rained. I took it to protect myself against the sun.
2) I'm not taking the umbrella in case it rains. I'm taking it to protect myself against the sun.
Are the above grammatical?
Yes.
Post by arthurvv vart
Are they idiomatic?
No.

Much better would be something like "I took the umbrella to protect
myself against the sun, not because of the possibility of rain."
--
Ken
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