On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 12:43:23 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 10:00:24 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 09:38:40 -0700 (PDT), Harrison Hill
Post by Harrison Hill Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 13:11:16 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden Post by Kerr-Mudd,John Post by J. J. Lodder
Today's newspaper reports Boris Johnson
as wanting a "Full English Brexit"
You Brits are always splaining to us ignorant foreigners
that it is really Britain, not England they should refer to.
But when push comes to shove you English are worse.
I really don't think that the Boris is hinting
that Scotland could remain,
It are a play on words; the "Full English Breakfast" is a well-worn
phrase (even if debate still rages as to what it consists of)
though all agree that it doesn't consist of croissants and coffee.
But it can include them.
The traditional Full English Breakfast may include cereals, porridge
or stewed prunes, melon, yogurt, boiled eggs or bacon and eggs,
grilled fish, sausages, grilled or fried mushrooms or tomatoes with
fried bread, followed by toasted bread and marmalade and tea or
coffee. Modern English breakfast (served in hotels or motels) may
include cereals, bacon and eggs, toasted bread and marmalade with tea
If you wanted to be decadent and treat yourself, you can add bone
marrow, pork crackling, a huge pork chop and home made baked beans to
make a truly full English breakfast feast.
For the connoisseur of the traditional English breakfast, the regional
differences in the pork ingredients add variety into the tradition,
but if you wanted to add even more tradition, try adding Anglo Saxon
dishes like baked halibut steaks, fried whiting, stewed figs, pheasant
legs, collared tongue, kidneys on toast, sausages with fried bread,
pigs cheek, bubble and squeak, and Melton pork pie to your spread.
In short, a Full Monty can include practically anything. That is the
way the meal traditionally evolved.
"Full Monty" and "full English" are synonyms.
Supposedly, the nickname arose from the fact that Field Marshal
Bernard Law Montgomery, 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein, KG, GCB,
DSO, PC, insisted on a Full English Breakfast every morning - even in
the North African desert.
That is one suggestion.
Many suggestions have been made as to the origin of this phrase, but
none of them is supported by reliable historical evidence. Perhaps
the most plausible is that the second element reflects a colloquial
shortening of the name of Montague Maurice Burton (18851952), men's
tailor, and that the phrase referred originally to the purchase of a
complete three-piece suit.
Also popular but unsubstantiated is the belief that the phrase is
somehow derived < Monty , the nickname of Field Marshal Bernard Law
Montgomery (18871976). However, the sheer variety of often vague,
purely anecdotal, and mutually contradictory explanations for the
connectionranging from his wartime briefing style to his
breakfasting habitsmakes this less credible. Other suggestions,
... are still more speculative.
There are quite a few ideas as to its origin.
"They covered this on Word of Mouth. It comes from a German phrase
describing a full dress uniform with brocade etc. It is thought to
have entered the English language by Jewish tailors. An early
reference is in a John Le Carre novel. Nothing to do with Burtons or
Egg and Chips."
"I hate to dispute with the authorities on Word of Mouth, but I have
always understood The Full Monty to be a reference to the menu of
services offered in Dublin's pre world war one red light district -
The Monto. It does have a longer 'proper' name but I can't remember
Apparently, there doesn't appear to be any instances of it having
appeared in print before the 1980s.
Michael Quinion on World Wide Words:
"One suggestion put forward in a newspaper article is that it was
invented in the early eighties by Ben Elton, an alternative comedian,
possibly after the model of the whole shebang, which has long been
known in Britain, though it originated in the US. But this seems
rather unlikely, because my erratic memory is insistent that the
phrase was around before the eighties; this impression is backed up by
several correspondents who say they heard it as far back as the 1950s.
Alas, nobody can provide any documentary evidence for these dates."
"A colleague in the dictionaries department at the Oxford University
Press, who has had the thankless job of writing the entry for this
expression, claims to have found sixteen different stories. A few of
the more common ones are:
a corruption of the full amount;
a reference to bales full of wool imported from Montevideo;
- from a TV commercial for Del Monte fruit juice, in which one of the
characters insisted on the full Del Monte;
- gamblers jargon meaning the kitty or pot, deriving from the old US
card game called monte;
- the casino at Monte Carlo, in which the full monty would equate with
breaking the bank;
- Field Marshal Montgomery on parade with all his medals;
from Field Marshal Montgomerys liking for a good breakfast in the
- being supplied by the British tailors Montague Burton with a
three-piece suit; or
- being provided with a complete wedding outfit from the same firm."
"Field Marshal Montgomery, General Montgomery as he was during the
Second World War, certainly had the nickname Monty (there was a film,
you may recall, with the title I Was Montys Double, about a man who
impersonated him). The stories about Montgomery mostly refer to his
liking for a good breakfast, even in the desert during the North
Africa campaign. It is said that the phrase was taken up after the
War, presumably by ex-servicemen, as a name for the traditional
English breakfast of bacon, eggs, fried bread, tomato, mushrooms,
toast, and cup of tea. However, this is just as likely to be a
rationalisation of an existing expression, but attached to a
well-known public figure in the way such things often are. However, I
have been told that it was in common use in transport cafés in the
1950s, so there may be something in it."