Discussion:
What is a "good Christian"?
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Dingbat
2019-01-14 08:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?

Alan
2 years ago from Tasmania

Catherine, greetings.

The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?

https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy


Good Christian could have 2 possible meanings:
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.

Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
Arindam Banerjee
2019-01-14 10:20:08 UTC
Permalink
One who does not persecute pagans, from a certain pov. From another pov, one who wants to enter Jewish heaven.
h***@gmail.com
2019-01-14 16:05:42 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
Alan
2 years ago from Tasmania
Catherine, greetings.
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Too many cookie options on your link, so I haven't read it. "Good
Christian" means (in the absence of context):

3) Christian and so by definition "good".

I don't expect the Spanish Inquisition was "good", but then nobody
expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Post by Dingbat
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
"Good Thief" means (2) and "good thief" could mean either. Thieving can be
"good" - where would be in poetry without stolen hearts?
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-14 16:20:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
Alan
2 years ago from Tasmania
Catherine, greetings.
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Too many cookie options on your link, so I haven't read it. "Good
3) Christian and so by definition "good".
No it doesn't. It wouldn't be necessary to use the qualifier at all
if that were the case. To employ the phrase 'good Christian'
inevitably implies that there are other kinds of Christian of
whom 'good' is not an appropriate description.
Post by h***@gmail.com
I don't expect the Spanish Inquisition was "good", but then nobody
expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Depends what you mean by good, doesn't it? They were extremely
good at their job. They were also frightfully well behaved (in fact
everybody expected the Spanish Inquisition because they could
only 'appear' by official invitation).
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by Dingbat
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
"Good Thief" means (2) and "good thief" could mean either. Thieving can be
"good" - where would be in poetry without stolen hearts?
Stealing hearts would be considered abusive, manipulative behaviour
in the current climate. Not good!
Arindam Banerjee
2019-01-15 00:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Thieving relates to stealing money or equivalents. Hearts have no sale value. Poets are poor people.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-15 13:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arindam Banerjee
Thieving relates to stealing money or equivalents. Hearts have no sale value. Poets are poor people.
Hearts have no sale value? Try telling that to an organ trader!
Snidely
2019-01-15 07:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
Alan
2 years ago from Tasmania
Catherine, greetings.
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
I would take the usual meaning of "a good Christian" to be
a person who professes to Christianity and follows the precepts
thereof.

For "a good thief", the default meaning sans context would be
"good at thieving", but in the real world we are never sans context,
are we?

/dps "Sandy Kofax is gone, though"
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-15 15:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
I would take the usual meaning of "a good Christian" to be
a person who professes to Christianity and follows the precepts
thereof.
Attempts with might and main to follow them.
Post by Snidely
For "a good thief", the default meaning sans context would be
"good at thieving", but in the real world we are never sans context,
are we?
"The Good Thief" refers specifically to the criminal crucified alongside
Jesus who asked Him to forgive him, to whom Jesus said "Today you shall
be with me in Paradise." (He's known as St. Dismas, San Dima in Spanish.)

ObAUE: Lookit that, English can do a "4th person" pronoun, like the
Algonquian languages, by deploying a disambiguating capital letter!
Post by Snidely
/dps "Sandy Kofax is gone, though"
Koufax. And Mel Stottlemyre (77). And Carol Channing (97).
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-15 19:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
Alan 2 years ago from Tasmania
Catherine, greetings.
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
 Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
 what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
 among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
 good since there being good Christians implies only that *some*
Christians
 are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
I would take the usual meaning of "a good Christian" to be
a person who professes to Christianity and follows the precepts thereof.
Tricky concept. There was a time when being a good Christian meant
smiting the Saracen - by far the best way of getting on the right side
of the Pope.
--
Sam Plusnet
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-15 20:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
Alan
2 years ago from Tasmania
Catherine, greetings.
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
I would take the usual meaning of "a good Christian" to be
a person who professes to Christianity and follows the precepts
thereof.
For "a good thief", the default meaning sans context would be
"good at thieving", but in the real world we are never sans context,
are we?
/dps "Sandy Kofax is gone, though"
Just gone from baseball, that is?
--
Jerry Friedman
Snidely
2019-01-16 09:20:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Snidely
Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
Alan
2 years ago from Tasmania
Catherine, greetings.
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
I would take the usual meaning of "a good Christian" to be
a person who professes to Christianity and follows the precepts
thereof.
For "a good thief", the default meaning sans context would be
"good at thieving", but in the real world we are never sans context,
are we?
/dps "Sandy Kofax is gone, though"
Just gone from baseball, that is?
From the starting rotation. He did pitch in 2017.

/dps "ok, gone from the bull pen, too"
--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-15 20:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Subject: What is a "good Christian"?
Alan
2 years ago from Tasmania
Catherine, greetings.
The expression "not a good Christian" presumes that the character of a
Christian is necessarily goodness, do you think? I suspect that is not
what you implied. I merely wish to point out that presumption is common
among many people. And false, do you agree?
https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in-the-Pulpit-Non-Believers-in-the-Clergy
1) good at being a Christian
2) both good and Christian
Neither of these two meanings implies that a Christian is necessarily
good since there being good Christians implies only that *some* Christians
are good, with the rest being mediocre, bad or anything other than good.
I agree that it doesn't make that presumption. You could say "As a good
Christian of his time, he believed in executing heretics," even if
you think (as I imagine we do) that executing heretics is evil.

However, I think that it does often conflate those two meanings; the
speaker assumes that someone good at being a Christian is a good person.

The person you quoted may well have meant "presupposes that the
character of an ideal Christian is necessarily good".
Post by Dingbat
Does Good Thief have both these possible meanings?
1) good at thieving
2) both good and a thief (like Robin Hood)
Yes, both.
--
Jerry Friedman
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