Discussion:
Shakesperian insult kit
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Dingbat
2021-03-22 15:39:16 UTC
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https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html

Why is artless an insult? It seems to mean the quality of a simpleton. Artful, OTOH, would be the quality of a deceiver.
Peter Moylan
2021-03-23 00:15:43 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
Why is artless an insult? It seems to mean the quality of a simpleton. Artful, OTOH, would be the quality of a deceiver.
I think art meant skill, approximately. In some contexts that's still true.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Madhu
2021-03-23 04:37:07 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
Why is artless an insult? It seems to mean the quality of a
simpleton. Artful, OTOH, would be the quality of a deceiver.
I think art meant skill, approximately. In some contexts that's still true.
I've come across "artless" a compliment - without guile - without
scheming designs - simple and therefore endearing and acceptable in
those contexts where where there is a glut of pretend sophistication

e.g. "artless elegance"
occam
2021-03-23 07:58:15 UTC
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Post by Madhu
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
Why is artless an insult? It seems to mean the quality of a
simpleton. Artful, OTOH, would be the quality of a deceiver.
I think art meant skill, approximately. In some contexts that's still true.
I've come across "artless" a compliment - without guile - without
scheming designs - simple and therefore endearing and acceptable in
those contexts where where there is a glut of pretend sophistication
e.g. "artless elegance"
Again, without context, one man's compliment can be another's sarcasm.
I'm struggling to understand why anyone would use 'artless' instead of
'simple' (e.g. 'simple elegance') or 'unpretentious'.

'Artless' has, without a doubt, negative connotations.
Dingbat
2021-03-23 04:41:10 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
Why is artless an insult? It seems to mean the quality of a simpleton. Artful, OTOH, would be the quality of a deceiver.
I think art meant skill, approximately. In some contexts that's still true.
So, it meant INCOMPETENT?
Arindam Banerjee
2021-03-23 02:46:56 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
Why is artless an insult? It seems to mean the quality of a simpleton. Artful, OTOH, would be the quality of a deceiver.
In certain circles, arty would be more insulting than either of the above.
bozo de niro
2021-03-30 21:06:01 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
Why is artless an insult? It seems to mean the quality of a simpleton. Artful, OTOH, would be the quality of a deceiver.
You forgot to mention the providence of "Artful Dodger" — oh wait here it is! — in the wonderful feature associated with its instant "Sidebar" link under Bing and Microsoft Edge.

"Jack Dawkins, better known as the Artful Dodger, is a character in Charles Dickens' 1838 novel Oliver Twist. The Dodger is a pickpocket, so called for his skill and cunning in that occupation. He is the leader of the gang of child criminals, trained by the elderly Fagin."

Thank you, and ur Welcome.
occam
2021-04-01 16:23:45 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.

Worth making a note.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-01 16:40:22 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what would happen
if he allowed certain words to be uttered in public. But have you
forgotten Hamlet's "these be country matters" while lying in Ophelia's
lap? Or Malvolio, who ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting
says "By my life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her U's and
her T's and thus makes she her great P's"?

(One commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was "cut.")
occam
2021-04-05 12:34:56 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what would happen
if he allowed certain words to be uttered in public. But have you
forgotten Hamlet's "these be country matters" while lying in Ophelia's
lap? Or Malvolio, who ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting
says "By my life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her U's and
her T's and thus makes she her great P's"?
(One commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was "cut.")
Here is a TED Talk delivered at the University of Glasgow.

"An honest history of an ancient and 'nasty' word". It discusses the
word's origins.

At around 3:10 into the video, the speaker also proposes 'cut' as the
(English ) precursor to cunt.

<https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_lister_an_honest_history_of_an_ancient_and_nasty_word#t-219871>

I'm glad I remembered your throw-away comment in parentheses.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-05 14:08:38 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what would happen
if he allowed certain words to be uttered in public. But have you
forgotten Hamlet's "these be country matters" while lying in Ophelia's
lap? Or Malvolio, who ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting
says "By my life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her U's and
her T's and thus makes she her great P's"?
(One commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was "cut.")
Here is a TED Talk delivered at the University of Glasgow.
"An honest history of an ancient and 'nasty' word". It discusses the
word's origins.
At around 3:10 into the video, the speaker also proposes 'cut' as the
(English ) precursor to cunt.
<https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_lister_an_honest_history_of_an_ancient_and_nasty_word#t-219871>
I'm glad I remembered your throw-away comment in parentheses.
I expect it's not going to be featured on NPR's "TED Radio Hour"
series.

Unfortunately she's a sex historian, not a linguist, so after staying
with her until the Early Modern period, I had to go back to the
beginning to try to find why she had both "Germanic" and "Proto-
Germanic" on the relevant slide. There's no explanation, and no
suggestion of why the PGmc -n- may have disappeared in German(?)
or other Gmc languages other than English and the North Germanic
languages. So it doesn't help with the claim about the Malvolio
speech (which omits N), nor do any of her pre-Shak. examples.
It still seems to show that he couldn't say "cunt" on the stage and
keep his license. (She mentions that some actor recently said to
Ophelia "these be count ... ... ry matters." Must've infuriated the
director.)

She claims there's a cunning/cunt pun in Sonnet 20 (that's the
one that "proves" he was gay) but I don't find it:

A woman’s face with nature’s own hand painted
Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion;
A woman’s gentle heart, but not acquainted
With shifting change as is false women’s fashion;
An eye more bright than theirs, less false in rolling,
Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth;
A man in hue, all hues in his controlling,
Which steals men’s eyes and women’s souls amazeth.
And for a woman wert thou first created,
Till nature as she wrought thee fell a-doting,
And by addition me of thee defeated
By adding one thing to my purpose nothing.
But since she pricked thee out for women's pleasure,
Mine be thy love and thy love’s use their treasure.

"acquainted"???
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-05 21:52:59 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what would happen
if he allowed certain words to be uttered in public. But have you
forgotten Hamlet's "these be country matters" while lying in Ophelia's
lap? Or Malvolio, who ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting
says "By my life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her U's and
her T's and thus makes she her great P's"?
(One commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was "cut.")
Here is a TED Talk delivered at the University of Glasgow.
"An honest history of an ancient and 'nasty' word". It discusses the
word's origins.
At around 3:10 into the video, the speaker also proposes 'cut' as the
(English ) precursor to cunt.
<https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_lister_an_honest_history_of_an_ancient_and_nasty_word#t-219871>
I'm glad I remembered your throw-away comment in parentheses.
I expect it's not going to be featured on NPR's "TED Radio Hour"
series.
Unfortunately she's a sex historian, not a linguist, so after staying
with her until the Early Modern period, I had to go back to the
beginning to try to find why she had both "Germanic" and "Proto-
Germanic" on the relevant slide. There's no explanation, and no
suggestion of why the PGmc -n- may have disappeared in German(?)
or other Gmc languages other than English and the North Germanic
languages. So it doesn't help with the claim about the Malvolio
speech (which omits N), nor do any of her pre-Shak. examples.
It still seems to show that he couldn't say "cunt" on the stage and
keep his license. (She mentions that some actor recently said to
Ophelia "these be count ... ... ry matters." Must've infuriated the
director.)
She claims there's a cunning/cunt pun in Sonnet 20 (that's the
A woman’s face with nature’s own hand painted
Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion;
A woman’s gentle heart, but not acquainted
With shifting change as is false women’s fashion;
An eye more bright than theirs, less false in rolling,
Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth;
A man in hue, all hues in his controlling,
In most modern dialects, that last word is a homophone of "cunt
rolling". Would that have been the case c. 1590?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Which steals men’s eyes and women’s souls amazeth.
And for a woman wert thou first created,
Till nature as she wrought thee fell a-doting,
And by addition me of thee defeated
By adding one thing to my purpose nothing.
But since she pricked thee out for women's pleasure,
Mine be thy love and thy love’s use their treasure.
"acquainted"???
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-06 08:38:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what would happen
if he allowed certain words to be uttered in public. But have you
forgotten Hamlet's "these be country matters" while lying in Ophelia's
lap? Or Malvolio, who ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting
says "By my life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her U's and
her T's and thus makes she her great P's"?
(One commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was "cut.")
Here is a TED Talk delivered at the University of Glasgow.
"An honest history of an ancient and 'nasty' word". It discusses the
word's origins.
At around 3:10 into the video, the speaker also proposes 'cut' as the
(English ) precursor to cunt.
<https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_lister_an_honest_history_of_an_ancient_and_nasty_word#t-219871>
I'm glad I remembered your throw-away comment in parentheses.
I expect it's not going to be featured on NPR's "TED Radio Hour"
series.
Unfortunately she's a sex historian, not a linguist, so after staying
with her until the Early Modern period, I had to go back to the
beginning to try to find why she had both "Germanic" and "Proto-
Germanic" on the relevant slide. There's no explanation, and no
suggestion of why the PGmc -n- may have disappeared in German(?)
or other Gmc languages other than English and the North Germanic
languages. So it doesn't help with the claim about the Malvolio
speech (which omits N), nor do any of her pre-Shak. examples.
It still seems to show that he couldn't say "cunt" on the stage and
keep his license. (She mentions that some actor recently said to
Ophelia "these be count ... ... ry matters." Must've infuriated the
director.)
She claims there's a cunning/cunt pun in Sonnet 20 (that's the
A woman’s face with nature’s own hand painted
Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion;
A woman’s gentle heart, but not acquainted
With shifting change as is false women’s fashion;
An eye more bright than theirs, less false in rolling,
Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth;
A man in hue, all hues in his controlling,
In most modern dialects, that last word is a homophone of "cunt rolling".
Not in RP it isn't, and I think it isn't in other forms of British
English, so [kənt] sounds clearly different from [kʌnt] even if we
ignore the difference in stress. However, [ʌ] and [ə] seem to have
fallen together in American English -- hence the bizarre convention of
using "uh" to represent [ə].
Would that have been the case c. 1590?
I don't know, but if it were it would fall foul of the rule that a word
can't rhyme with itself.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Which steals men’s eyes and women’s souls amazeth.
And for a woman wert thou first created,
Till nature as she wrought thee fell a-doting,
And by addition me of thee defeated
By adding one thing to my purpose nothing.
But since she pricked thee out for women's pleasure,
Mine be thy love and thy love’s use their treasure.
"acquainted"???
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-06 14:25:13 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what would happen
if he allowed certain words to be uttered in public. But have you
forgotten Hamlet's "these be country matters" while lying in Ophelia's
lap? Or Malvolio, who ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting
says "By my life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her U's and
her T's and thus makes she her great P's"?
(One commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was "cut.")
Here is a TED Talk delivered at the University of Glasgow.
"An honest history of an ancient and 'nasty' word". It discusses the
word's origins.
At around 3:10 into the video, the speaker also proposes 'cut' as the
(English ) precursor to cunt.
<https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_lister_an_honest_history_of_an_ancient_and_nasty_word#t-219871>
I'm glad I remembered your throw-away comment in parentheses.
I expect it's not going to be featured on NPR's "TED Radio Hour"
series.
Unfortunately she's a sex historian, not a linguist, so after staying
with her until the Early Modern period, I had to go back to the
beginning to try to find why she had both "Germanic" and "Proto-
Germanic" on the relevant slide. There's no explanation, and no
suggestion of why the PGmc -n- may have disappeared in German(?)
or other Gmc languages other than English and the North Germanic
languages. So it doesn't help with the claim about the Malvolio
speech (which omits N), nor do any of her pre-Shak. examples.
It still seems to show that he couldn't say "cunt" on the stage and
keep his license. (She mentions that some actor recently said to
Ophelia "these be count ... ... ry matters." Must've infuriated the
director.)
She claims there's a cunning/cunt pun in Sonnet 20 (that's the
A woman’s face with nature’s own hand painted
Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion;
A woman’s gentle heart, but not acquainted
With shifting change as is false women’s fashion;
An eye more bright than theirs, less false in rolling,
Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth;
A man in hue, all hues in his controlling,
In most modern dialects, that last word is a homophone of "cunt rolling".
Not in RP it isn't, and I think it isn't in other forms of British
English, so [kənt] sounds clearly different from [kʌnt] even if we
ignore the difference in stress. However, [ʌ] and [ə] seem to have
fallen together in American English -- hence the bizarre convention of
using "uh" to represent [ə].
That rather depends on what you mean by [ʌ] and [ə]. Clearly you're not
referring to their values as shown in the IPA chart (and neither are
Americanists). [ʌ] is used to indicate a stressed [ə]. [ə] is an "indistinct"
reduced vowel, with no discernible quality.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Would that have been the case c. 1590?
I don't know, but if it were it would fall foul of the rule that a word
can't rhyme with itself.
Eh? "controlling" and "cunt rolling" are the same word?
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Which steals men’s eyes and women’s souls amazeth.
And for a woman wert thou first created,
Till nature as she wrought thee fell a-doting,
And by addition me of thee defeated
By adding one thing to my purpose nothing.
But since she pricked thee out for women's pleasure,
Mine be thy love and thy love’s use their treasure.
"acquainted"???
(The incidental mention of Sonnet 20 was when she was talking
about "queynte," which she claims was a spelling of "cunt" and
was also a form of the word that has barely survived as "ken,"
meaning 'knowledge' -- as in "acquaint.")
CDB
2021-04-12 13:03:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today
e.g. sexual or scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck,
shit or penis in sight. Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what
would happen if he allowed certain words to be uttered in
public. But have you forgotten Hamlet's "these be country
matters" while lying in Ophelia's lap? Or Malvolio, who
ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting says "By my
life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her
U's and her T's and thus makes she her great P's"? (One
commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was
"cut.")
Here is a TED Talk delivered at the University of Glasgow.
"An honest history of an ancient and 'nasty' word". It
discusses the word's origins.
At around 3:10 into the video, the speaker also proposes
'cut' as the (English ) precursor to cunt.
<https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_lister_an_honest_history_of_an_ancient_and_nasty_word#t-219871>
I'm glad I remembered your throw-away comment in parentheses.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
I expect it's not going to be featured on NPR's "TED Radio
Hour" series.
Unfortunately she's a sex historian, not a linguist, so after
staying with her until the Early Modern period, I had to go
back to the beginning to try to find why she had both
"Germanic" and "Proto- Germanic" on the relevant slide.
There's no explanation, and no suggestion of why the PGmc -n-
may have disappeared in German(?) or other Gmc languages
other than English and the North Germanic languages. So it
doesn't help with the claim about the Malvolio speech (which
omits N), nor do any of her pre-Shak. examples. It still
seems to show that he couldn't say "cunt" on the stage and
keep his license. (She mentions that some actor recently said
to Ophelia "these be count ... ... ry matters." Must've
infuriated the director.)
She claims there's a cunning/cunt pun in Sonnet 20 (that's
A woman’s face with nature’s own hand painted Hast thou, the
master-mistress of my passion; A woman’s gentle heart, but
not acquainted With shifting change as is false women’s
fashion; An eye more bright than theirs, less false in
rolling, Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth; A man in
hue, all hues in his controlling,
In most modern dialects, that last word is a homophone of "cunt rolling".
Not in RP it isn't, and I think it isn't in other forms of
British English, so [kənt] sounds clearly different from [kʌnt]
even if we ignore the difference in stress. However, [ʌ] and [ə]
seem to have fallen together in American English -- hence the
bizarre convention of using "uh" to represent [ə].
That rather depends on what you mean by [ʌ] and [ə]. Clearly you're
not referring to their values as shown in the IPA chart (and
neither are Americanists). [ʌ] is used to indicate a stressed [ə].
[ə] is an "indistinct" reduced vowel, with no discernible quality.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Would that have been the case c. 1590?
I don't know, but if it were it would fall foul of the rule that
a word can't rhyme with itself.
Eh? "controlling" and "cunt rolling" are the same word?
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Which steals men’s eyes and women’s souls amazeth. And for a
woman wert thou first created, Till nature as she wrought
thee fell a-doting, And by addition me of thee defeated By
adding one thing to my purpose nothing. But since she pricked
thee out for women's pleasure, Mine be thy love and thy
love’s use their treasure.
"acquainted"???
(The incidental mention of Sonnet 20 was when she was talking about
"queynte," which she claims was a spelling of "cunt" and was also a
form of the word that has barely survived as "ken," meaning
'knowledge' -- as in "acquaint.")
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm unable
to evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
He even rhymes the two meanings in "The Miller's Tale": "clever" in one
line, "the family jewel" in the next.

Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas,
That on a day this hende Nicholas
165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and pleye,
Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,

*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte;
And prively he caughte hire by the queynte,*

And seyde, "Ywis, but if ich have my wille,
170 For deerne love of thee, lemman, I spille."

"I spille" was 'I am slain".

http://www.librarius.com/canttran/milltale/milltale163-198.htm

Looking the word up, I find it could mean "ornament".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-12 13:38:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CDB
[ … ]
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm unable
to evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
He even rhymes the two meanings in "The Miller's Tale": "clever" in one
line, "the family jewel" in the next.
Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas,
That on a day this hende Nicholas
165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and pleye,
Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte;
And prively he caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
Post by CDB
And seyde, "Ywis, but if ich have my wille,
170 For deerne love of thee, lemman, I spille."
"I spille" was 'I am slain".
http://www.librarius.com/canttran/milltale/milltale163-198.htm
Looking the word up, I find it could mean "ornament".
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
CDB
2021-04-14 12:40:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
[ … ]
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm
unable to evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of
knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
He even rhymes the two meanings in "The Miller's Tale": "clever"
in one line, "the family jewel" in the next.
Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas, That on a day this
hende Nicholas 165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and pleye,
Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.

What?

[trolling for a mercyfuck]

[Nicholas, not me]
Tony Cooper
2021-04-14 13:02:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
[ … ]
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm
unable to evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of
knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
He even rhymes the two meanings in "The Miller's Tale": "clever"
in one line, "the family jewel" in the next.
Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas, That on a day this
hende Nicholas 165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and pleye,
Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
Trump's tweets were often full of misspelled words.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter Moylan
2021-04-14 12:08:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
[ … ]
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm
unable to evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of
knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
He even rhymes the two meanings in "The Miller's Tale": "clever"
in one line, "the family jewel" in the next.
Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas, That on a day this
hende Nicholas 165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and pleye,
Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
I thought at first it was a reference to Tough Guy, a former visitor to
AUE who has mercifully not left us. It wasn't until a few minutes ago
that it finally clicked that it was instead an American politician whose
name and habits we don't like to mention.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
CDB
2021-04-14 15:23:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ … ]
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm
unable to evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of
knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
"clever" in one line, "the family jewel" in the next.
Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas, That on a day this
hende Nicholas 165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and
pleye, Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought about it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of
my rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
I thought at first it was a reference to Tough Guy, a former visitor
to AUE who has mercifully not left us. It wasn't until a few minutes
ago that it finally clicked that it was instead an American
politician whose name and habits we don't like to mention.
Ah. Whew. I think I know who you mean -- strolled about in winter
wearing only a jockstrap, something like that? (I usually give the A.p.
a derisive nickname; the biter bit.)

Much thanks.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-14 13:32:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
[ … ]
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm unable to
evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
He even rhymes the two meanings in "The Miller's Tale": "clever"
in one line, "the family jewel" in the next.
Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas, That on a day this hende
Nicholas 165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and pleye, Whil that
her housbonde was at Oseneye,
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-14 14:35:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.


Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2021-04-14 16:24:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.

I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
--
Novels and romances ... when habitually indulged in, exert a
disastrous influence on the nervous system, sufficient to explain
that frequency of hysteria and nervous disease which we find
among the highest classes. -- E.J. Tilt
Rich Ulrich
2021-04-14 17:27:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 12:24:04 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
Stephen Colbert has avoided speaking the name. His citations
on screen are credited to T****.

On Monday, he invited viewers to submit alternatives. Last
night, he reported that there had already been over 9000
suggestions. He went on to use a handful of them, including
"Old Yeller".
--
Rich Ulrich
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-14 19:01:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 12:24:04 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
Stephen Colbert has avoided speaking the name. His citations
on screen are credited to T****.
On Monday, he invited viewers to submit alternatives. Last
night, he reported that there had already been over 9000
suggestions. He went on to use a handful of them, including
"Old Yeller".
Voldermort?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
phil
2021-04-14 20:19:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 12:24:04 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:32:25 AM UTC-6, Athel
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
Stephen Colbert has avoided speaking the name. His citations
on screen are credited to T****.
On Monday, he invited viewers to submit alternatives.  Last
night, he reported that there had already been over 9000
suggestions.  He went on to use a handful of them, including
"Old Yeller".
Voldermort?
aka the Orange Lord? Lord seems a bit too deferential though.
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-15 04:31:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 12:24:04 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:32:25 AM UTC-6, Athel
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
Stephen Colbert has avoided speaking the name. His citations
on screen are credited to T****.
On Monday, he invited viewers to submit alternatives.  Last
night, he reported that there had already been over 9000
suggestions.  He went on to use a handful of them, including
"Old Yeller".
Voldermort?
Was the extra "r" intentional?

If so it might make some sense.

If you meant to bring up Rowling's villain, bear in mind that an
increasing portion of the Left--the trans-friendly part--considers THAT
AUTHOR nearly as bad a person to draw positive attention to AS the
Former Guy.

I certainly somewhat regret the very small role in making her rich that
my purchases played.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Paul Wolff
2021-04-14 19:16:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
That suggestion appeals to me very much, even though I'm in another
continent and really have little serious interest in the political
death-throes of another foreign ex-ruler. I briefly thought that they
(in that country) might instigate a little competition for suitable
names, but in that case I would caution them to be careful, remembering
that the British competition to name a new top-of-the-range Antarctic
survey ship was won by Boaty McBoatface.
--
Paul
phil
2021-04-14 20:19:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Quinn C
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:32:25 AM UTC-6, Athel
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
That suggestion appeals to me very much, even though I'm in another
continent and really have little serious interest in the political
death-throes of another foreign ex-ruler. I briefly thought that they
(in that country) might instigate a little competition for suitable
names, but in that case I would caution them to be careful, remembering
that the British competition to name a new top-of-the-range Antarctic
survey ship was won by Boaty McBoatface.
Orange McTrumpface. Hmmm...
Quinn C
2021-04-14 21:49:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by phil
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Quinn C
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:32:25 AM UTC-6, Athel
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
That suggestion appeals to me very much, even though I'm in another
continent and really have little serious interest in the political
death-throes of another foreign ex-ruler. I briefly thought that they
(in that country) might instigate a little competition for suitable
names, but in that case I would caution them to be careful, remembering
that the British competition to name a new top-of-the-range Antarctic
survey ship was won by Boaty McBoatface.
Orange McTrumpface. Hmmm...
More like Prezzy McPrezface. You included the name that shall not be
spoken!
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
phil
2021-04-14 22:29:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by phil
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Quinn C
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:32:25 AM UTC-6, Athel
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of my
rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once anyway)
Definitely at least once.
http://youtu.be/fPuxhDrZsOM
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the queynte)
by his successor.
A sobriquet still often being used by the kind of people who use such
sobriquets.
Soon to reach three months of sobriquiety.
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
That suggestion appeals to me very much, even though I'm in another
continent and really have little serious interest in the political
death-throes of another foreign ex-ruler. I briefly thought that they
(in that country) might instigate a little competition for suitable
names, but in that case I would caution them to be careful, remembering
that the British competition to name a new top-of-the-range Antarctic
survey ship was won by Boaty McBoatface.
Orange McTrumpface. Hmmm...
More like Prezzy McPrezface. You included the name that shall not be
spoken!
Oops! Yes, shot myself in the foot there.
Rich Ulrich
2021-04-14 21:43:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 20:16:57 +0100, Paul Wolff
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Quinn C
I do observe a widespread hesitation to speak his name. Maybe he should
be assigned a new name to circumvent this taboo, as is the custom with
dead people in some cultures.
That suggestion appeals to me very much, even though I'm in another
continent and really have little serious interest in the political
death-throes of another foreign ex-ruler. I briefly thought that they
(in that country) might instigate a little competition for suitable
names, but in that case I would caution them to be careful, remembering
that the British competition to name a new top-of-the-range Antarctic
survey ship was won by Boaty McBoatface.
Caution? Caution!

Boaty McBoatface is an excellent name.

I had heard that they weren't using that winner, but that turns
out to be only mainly true - they used the name for one of the
auxiliary vessels.

Apparently "Boaty McBoatface" has led to many imitators,
according to the Wiki article at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaty_McBoatface
--
Rich Ulrich
Peter Moylan
2021-04-15 01:24:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Caution? Caution!
Boaty McBoatface is an excellent name.
I had heard that they weren't using that winner, but that turns out
to be only mainly true - they used the name for one of the auxiliary
vessels.
Apparently "Boaty McBoatface" has led to many imitators, according to
the Wiki article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaty_McBoatface
Sydney's Ferry McFerryface was so controversial that potential crew
members refused to work on it. It had to be renamed before being put
into service.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
CDB
2021-04-14 15:27:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ … ]
This claims that queynte was Chaucer's spelling of cunt. I'm
unable to evaluate the merits of the claim, for want of
knowledge.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=queynte
"clever" in one line, "the family jewel" in the next.
Now, sire, and eft, sire, so bifel the cas, That on a day this
hende Nicholas 165 Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and
pleye, Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,
*As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte; And prively he
caughte hire by the queynte,*
Was the Former Guy a student of Chaucer?
I thought the idea was that he could do it on Broadway.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by CDB
OK, I have let that question sit, I have thought abouit it, I have
waited for someone smarter to comment, and now I am at the end of
my rope. Whooshed.
What?
[trolling for a mercyfuck]
[Nicholas, not me]
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once
anyway) to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the
queynte) by his successor.
OK, good knockname, but IMO not derisive enough. And he will always be
a Guy to me.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-14 16:01:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"The former guy" was a sobriquet applied (reported to be, once
anyway) to the orange loser (who boasted about grabbing women by the
queynte) by his successor.
OK, good knockname, but IMO not derisive enough. And he will always be
a Guy to me.
I think one reason it's popular is the connotation that deriding him is now a
waste of energy.
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2021-04-06 10:12:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
Shak. was a bit more subtle than that -- and he knew what would happen
if he allowed certain words to be uttered in public. But have you
forgotten Hamlet's "these be country matters" while lying in Ophelia's
lap? Or Malvolio, who ostensibly commenting on a lady's handwriting
says "By my life, this is my lady's hand these be her very C's, her U's and
her T's and thus makes she her great P's"?
(One commentator claims that the Elizabethan obscenity was "cut.")
Here is a TED Talk delivered at the University of Glasgow.
"An honest history of an ancient and 'nasty' word". It discusses the
word's origins.
At around 3:10 into the video, the speaker also proposes 'cut' as the
(English ) precursor to cunt.
<https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_lister_an_honest_history_of_an_ancient_and_nasty_word#t-219871>
I'm glad I remembered your throw-away comment in parentheses.
I expect it's not going to be featured on NPR's "TED Radio Hour"
series.
Unfortunately she's a sex historian, not a linguist, so after staying
with her until the Early Modern period, I had to go back to the
beginning to try to find why she had both "Germanic" and "Proto-
Germanic" on the relevant slide. There's no explanation, and no
suggestion of why the PGmc -n- may have disappeared in German(?)
or other Gmc languages other than English and the North Germanic
languages. So it doesn't help with the claim about the Malvolio
speech (which omits N), nor do any of her pre-Shak. examples.
It still seems to show that he couldn't say "cunt" on the stage and
keep his license. (She mentions that some actor recently said to
Ophelia "these be count ... ... ry matters." Must've infuriated the
director.)
She claims there's a cunning/cunt pun in Sonnet 20 (that's the
I've read somewhere that Marvell's "And thy quaint honour turn to
dust" is such a pun (better in the pronunciation of the time).
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A woman’s face with nature’s own hand painted
Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion;
A woman’s gentle heart, but not acquainted
With shifting change as is false women’s fashion;
An eye more bright than theirs, less false in rolling,
Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth;
A man in hue, all hues in his controlling,
Which steals men’s eyes and women’s souls amazeth.
And for a woman wert thou first created,
Till nature as she wrought thee fell a-doting,
And by addition me of thee defeated
By adding one thing to my purpose nothing.
But since she pricked thee out for women's pleasure,
Mine be thy love and thy love’s use their treasure.
"acquainted"???
--
rise to claim Saturn, ring and sky
Lewis
2021-04-02 00:38:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Different times, different vocabulary.
Post by occam
Worth making a note.
Not really. Some of the words on that list would be at least as
offensive to people hearing them in 1580 as cunt would be now, probably
more.
--
Some people are like a slinky: Totally useless, but you can't help
but smile when you push them down the stairs
Graham
2021-04-02 04:26:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Different times, different vocabulary.
Post by occam
Worth making a note.
Not really. Some of the words on that list would be at least as
offensive to people hearing them in 1580 as cunt would be now, probably
more.
Pepys used "cunny" in his diary.
Janet
2021-04-02 10:13:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graham
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Different times, different vocabulary.
Post by occam
Worth making a note.
Not really. Some of the words on that list would be at least as
offensive to people hearing them in 1580 as cunt would be now, probably
more.
Pepys used "cunny" in his diary.
Shakespeare used "low lying countries", and "country matters",
meaning cunt. Plus the quote PTD gave.

WS plays (both tragedy and comedy) are littered with sexual double
meanings familiar to his contemporary audiences.

The use of sexual/scatological double entendre is a type of stage
humour still common in modern Britain, in pantomimes and popular
broadcast TV and radio. The Office and Bond films are full of it.

An example for AUE ; cunning linguist.

Janet.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-02 14:03:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graham
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Different times, different vocabulary.
Post by occam
Worth making a note.
Not really. Some of the words on that list would be at least as
offensive to people hearing them in 1580 as cunt would be now, probably
more.
Pepys used "cunny" in his diary.
Shakespeare used "low lying countries", and "country matters",
meaning cunt. Plus the quote PTD gave.
WS plays (both tragedy and comedy) are littered with sexual double
meanings familiar to his contemporary audiences.
The use of sexual/scatological double entendre is a type of stage
humour still common in modern Britain, in pantomimes and popular
broadcast TV and radio. The Office and Bond films are full of it.
Really? A film with a character named Pussy Galore?
An example for AUE ; cunning linguist.
Also quite well known in the U.S., often paired with "master debater".
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-02 15:07:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Graham
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Different times, different vocabulary.
Post by occam
Worth making a note.
Not really. Some of the words on that list would be at least as
offensive to people hearing them in 1580 as cunt would be now, probably
more.
Pepys used "cunny" in his diary.
Shakespeare used "low lying countries", and "country matters",
meaning cunt. Plus the quote PTD gave.
WS plays (both tragedy and comedy) are littered with sexual double
meanings familiar to his contemporary audiences.
The use of sexual/scatological double entendre is a type of stage
humour still common in modern Britain, in pantomimes and popular
broadcast TV and radio. The Office and Bond films are full of it.
Really? A film with a character named Pussy Galore?
Honey Ryder
Holly Goodhead
Plenty O'Toole
Chew Mee
Molly Warmflash
Penny Smallbone

and, of course, Dink.

Although, the only good name in the entire series of novels for a female
character, and one of the great fictional names of all time, is Vesper
Lynd.
--
I intend to live forever -- so far, so good!
Peter Moylan
2021-04-03 00:57:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Shakespeare used "low lying countries", and "country matters",
meaning cunt. Plus the quote PTD gave.
WS plays (both tragedy and comedy) are littered with sexual double
meanings familiar to his contemporary audiences.
The use of sexual/scatological double entendre is a type of stage
humour still common in modern Britain, in pantomimes and popular
broadcast TV and radio. The Office and Bond films are full of it.
Really? A film with a character named Pussy Galore?
An example for AUE ; cunning linguist.
Also quite well known in the U.S., often paired with "master
debater".
When an Australian Prime Minister died in office (by drowning, probably,
although there are other theories), his widow married a Mr Bates.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Graham
2021-04-02 14:40:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Graham
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Different times, different vocabulary.
Post by occam
Worth making a note.
Not really. Some of the words on that list would be at least as
offensive to people hearing them in 1580 as cunt would be now, probably
more.
Pepys used "cunny" in his diary.
Shakespeare used "low lying countries", and "country matters",
meaning cunt. Plus the quote PTD gave.
WS plays (both tragedy and comedy) are littered with sexual double
meanings familiar to his contemporary audiences.
Also in the sonnets: Be anchored in the bay where all men ride.
Dingbat
2021-04-02 08:04:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Dingbat
https://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html
The interesting thing about those three columns of words is that there
are hardly any swear words as we understand them today e.g. sexual or
scatological in origin. No cunt, fuck, shit or penis in sight.
Worth making a note.
I did voluntary work for an animal rescuer. She once complained about her husband calling her a cunt. I took him to task about it. He claimed that it was an innocuous acronym for Can't Understand Normal Thought.
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