Discussion:
Who tied it
(too old to reply)
Joy Beeson
2021-01-27 04:37:57 UTC
Permalink
When cleaning up my diary, I found:

-----------------

Thursday, 3 December 2020

Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)

-----------------

After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.

I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.

I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
--
Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
joy beeson at centurylink dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
Lewis
2021-01-27 04:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing.
It is new to me.
--
Bart, don't use the Touch of Death on your sister.
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-27 05:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.

I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-01-27 13:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
The ngram searches for "who tied it" seem to all be about literally
tying.

"Sir A. Cooper was the first who tied it for aneurism, and it has since
been repeatedly tied." talking about a surgical tying in 1859

I suspect it is adopted from sailing, where proper tying can be a life
or death proposal.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, but where is a fish?"
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-27 15:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
The ngram searches for "who tied it" seem to all be about literally
tying.
Try searching for "to who tied it"--but there's not much.

Are you talking about Google Books, or have you found a way to see search
results from the Gooble ngram search page?
Post by Lewis
"Sir A. Cooper was the first who tied it for aneurism, and it has since
been repeatedly tied." talking about a surgical tying in 1859
I suspect it is adopted from sailing, where proper tying can be a life
or death proposal.
I'm now wondering about a bizarre euphemism for "to hell".
--
Jerry Friedman
Rich Ulrich
2021-01-27 17:45:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 07:08:54 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
The ngram searches for "who tied it" seem to all be about literally
tying.
Try searching for "to who tied it"--but there's not much.
Are you talking about Google Books, or have you found a way to see search
results from the Gooble ngram search page?
hmm. Google-ngram will show you hits, grouped by arbitrary
ranges of years. But do they still show results when the count is
tiny, like four?
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
"Sir A. Cooper was the first who tied it for aneurism, and it has since
been repeatedly tied." talking about a surgical tying in 1859
I suspect it is adopted from sailing, where proper tying can be a life
or death proposal.
I'm now wondering about a bizarre euphemism for "to hell".
--
Rich Ulrich
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-27 21:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 07:08:54 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
The ngram searches for "who tied it" seem to all be about literally
tying.
Try searching for "to who tied it"--but there's not much.
Are you talking about Google Books, or have you found a way to see search
results from the Gooble ngram search page?
hmm. Google-ngram will show you hits, grouped by arbitrary
ranges of years. But do they still show results when the count is
tiny, like four?
...

Nope. "Also, we only consider ngrams that occur in at least 40 books." (From the
"About Ngram Viewer" link at the bottom of the page.)

(The count was greater than four, but some were like "according to who tied it"
or otherwise irrelevant. It was less than forty.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-01-27 18:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
The ngram searches for "who tied it" seem to all be about literally
tying.
Try searching for "to who tied it"--but there's not much.
that gave me no results on ngram search.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Are you talking about Google Books, or have you found a way to see search
results from the Gooble ngram search page?
Yes, you can see where the sources for the graphs are in the ngram
search.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
"Sir A. Cooper was the first who tied it for aneurism, and it has since
been repeatedly tied." talking about a surgical tying in 1859
I suspect it is adopted from sailing, where proper tying can be a life
or death proposal.
I'm now wondering about a bizarre euphemism for "to hell".
??
--
'They're the cream!' Rincewind sighed. 'Cohen, they're the cheese.'
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-27 21:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
The ngram searches for "who tied it" seem to all be about literally
tying.
Try searching for "to who tied it"--but there's not much.
that gave me no results on ngram search.
Because it occurs in fewer than 40 books.
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Are you talking about Google Books, or have you found a way to see search
results from the Gooble ngram search page?
Yes, you can see where the sources for the graphs are in the ngram
search.
Oh, the GB links to various time periods at the bottom of the page, I imagine?
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
"Sir A. Cooper was the first who tied it for aneurism, and it has since
been repeatedly tied." talking about a surgical tying in 1859
I suspect it is adopted from sailing, where proper tying can be a life
or death proposal.
I'm now wondering about a bizarre euphemism for "to hell".
??
"To who tied it" seems to mean something like "to hell" or "to hell and gone".
And "who" starts with the same sound as "hell". But why someone might
start to say "to hell" and switch to "to who-tied-it"... *looks baffled*
--
Jerry Friedman
Ken Blake
2021-01-27 16:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Joy Beeson
-----------------
Thursday, 3 December 2020
Then I turned half an inch to the inside and pinned it, all the time
reflecting on how much easier cloth is to handle when it's been
starched to who-tied-it, then I wandered off trying to find the source
of "who tied it" in the sense of "absurdly thoroughly" and never got
back to my sewing. And it would take only a few minutes to finish
that cotton-plissé mask. ("picking" bowdlerized to plissé)
-----------------
After failing to find "who tied it" in World Wide Words, I was at a
loss for further research.
I suppose it could have been something my grandmother said once, and
Mom picked it up the way I picked up "he was knowed as in them days"
after Mom used it once.
I don't recall ever seeing "who tied it" in the wild.
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I don't have the slightest trace of a guess about the origin.
The ngram searches for "who tied it" seem to all be about literally
tying.
"Sir A. Cooper was the first who tied it for aneurism, and it has since
been repeatedly tied." talking about a surgical tying in 1859
I suspect it is adopted from sailing, where proper tying can be a life
or death proposal.
It is knot!
--
Ken
Joy Beeson
2021-01-29 06:23:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:11:46 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I didn't get any hits at all on DuckDuckGo, but I did find a
discussion of "who tied the pup". The oldest quote, I think,
was "until who tied the pup" and meant "until the cows come home". "To
who tied the pup" was a "general intensifier".

In the spirit in which, as a small child, I observed that concrete
roads had streaks and patches of blacktop where cracks and holes had
been repaired, then speculated that blacktop roads were old concrete
roads, I speculate that "for a very long time" could morph into "very
thoroughly".

Then it takes no speculation at all to suppose that "the pup" could be
replaced by "it".

Alas, I didn't think to save the URL, and I'm too sleepy to repeat the
search.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Mack A. Damia
2021-01-29 06:33:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 01:23:37 -0500, Joy Beeson
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:11:46 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I didn't get any hits at all on DuckDuckGo, but I did find a
discussion of "who tied the pup". The oldest quote, I think,
was "until who tied the pup" and meant "until the cows come home". "To
who tied the pup" was a "general intensifier".
In the spirit in which, as a small child, I observed that concrete
roads had streaks and patches of blacktop where cracks and holes had
been repaired, then speculated that blacktop roads were old concrete
roads, I speculate that "for a very long time" could morph into "very
thoroughly".
Then it takes no speculation at all to suppose that "the pup" could be
replaced by "it".
Alas, I didn't think to save the URL, and I'm too sleepy to repeat the
search.
Go to "History".
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-29 16:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 21:11:46 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
There are a few relevant Google hits for "to who tied it", all American rural.
Four hits, in fact, not counting one from the sewing log of someone from
Indiana who rides a bike and refers to someone as DH.
I didn't get any hits at all on DuckDuckGo, but I did find a
discussion of "who tied the pup". The oldest quote, I think,
was "until who tied the pup" and meant "until the cows come home". "To
who tied the pup" was a "general intensifier".
In the spirit in which, as a small child, I observed that concrete
roads had streaks and patches of blacktop where cracks and holes had
been repaired, then speculated that blacktop roads were old concrete
roads, I speculate that "for a very long time" could morph into "very
thoroughly".
Then it takes no speculation at all to suppose that "the pup" could be
replaced by "it".
...

That must be right. At Google Books, "who tied the pup" seems to start
in the 1920s. No doubt the expression was the cat's pajamas.
--
Jerry Friedman
occam
2021-01-28 10:17:41 UTC
Permalink
"When cleaning up my diary"? What does that involve exactly? A bit of
hoovering, perhaps? Purging of exp!etives? Or just giving them a good
shake, see what drops out.

I suspect this expression will look as odd to you in 20 years' time as
'who-tied-it' does now. Once it's done and dusted, that is.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-28 15:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"When cleaning up my diary"? What does that involve exactly? A bit of
hoovering, perhaps? Purging of exp!etives? Or just giving them a good
shake, see what drops out.
I suspect this expression will look as odd to you in 20 years' time as
'who-tied-it' does now. Once it's done and dusted, that is.
Clearly it means she's sanitizing the document for publication --
or at least so that her heirs won't come across potentially embarrassing
information. What's curious is that she was surprised by something
she'd written less than two months before.
Tony Cooper
2021-01-28 17:49:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 07:40:10 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
"When cleaning up my diary"? What does that involve exactly? A bit of
hoovering, perhaps? Purging of exp!etives? Or just giving them a good
shake, see what drops out.
I suspect this expression will look as odd to you in 20 years' time as
'who-tied-it' does now. Once it's done and dusted, that is.
Clearly it means she's sanitizing the document for publication --
or at least so that her heirs won't come across potentially embarrassing
information. What's curious is that she was surprised by something
she'd written less than two months before.
I have trouble - a great deal of trouble - in imagining Joy's need to
"sanitize" her diary entries. She is not a person I can envision as
one who would enscribe some saucy revelation about her day that might
embarass when read in the future.

At most, maybe, that she flashed a little too much leg when mounting
her bicycle after delivering snacks and drinks to the volunteer
firefighters in her district.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-28 19:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 07:40:10 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
"When cleaning up my diary"? What does that involve exactly? A bit of
hoovering, perhaps? Purging of exp!etives? Or just giving them a good
shake, see what drops out.
I suspect this expression will look as odd to you in 20 years' time as
'who-tied-it' does now. Once it's done and dusted, that is.
Clearly it means she's sanitizing the document for publication --
or at least so that her heirs won't come across potentially embarrassing
information. What's curious is that she was surprised by something
she'd written less than two months before.
I have trouble - a great deal of trouble - in imagining Joy's need to
"sanitize" her diary entries. She is not a person I can envision as
one who would enscribe some saucy revelation about her day that might
embarass when read in the future.
Is the notion of "irony" really so utterly beyond you?

I trust she got a little chuckle from my remark.
Post by Tony Cooper
At most, maybe, that she flashed a little too much leg when mounting
her bicycle after delivering snacks and drinks to the volunteer
firefighters in her district.
Or, maybe, a dedicated and skilled cyclist might not want everyone
finding out she'd had _quite_ so many mishaps as she had?
Rich Ulrich
2021-01-28 18:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"When cleaning up my diary"? What does that involve exactly? A bit of
hoovering, perhaps? Purging of exp!etives? Or just giving them a good
shake, see what drops out.
I assumed that it meant approximately what I do,
when I shuffle through a collection of notes that I
have jotted over a few months. There's no censorship
involved.

I fix bad handwriting so I will know what I wrote, even
after I've forgotten writing it. I provide a few words of
context, for the same reason.

Since mine are separate notes on 3x6 inch paper, filled
to varying extents, I toss out a few and combine a few
others. And put them in the appropriate pigeonholes,
literally or figuratively.
Post by occam
I suspect this expression will look as odd to you in 20 years' time as
'who-tied-it' does now. Once it's done and dusted, that is.
It seems like fairly natural language, if you have had the
experience.
--
Rich Ulrich
occam
2021-01-29 00:10:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Since mine are separate notes on 3x6 inch paper, filled
to varying extents, I toss out a few and combine a few
others. And put them in the appropriate pigeonholes,
literally or figuratively.
What an odd architecture for a diary, Herr Ulrich. Remind me not to
engage you in any minute taking capacity.
Rich Ulrich
2021-01-29 23:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Rich Ulrich
Since mine are separate notes on 3x6 inch paper, filled
to varying extents, I toss out a few and combine a few
others. And put them in the appropriate pigeonholes,
literally or figuratively.
What an odd architecture for a diary, Herr Ulrich. Remind me not to
engage you in any minute taking capacity.
I see that I trimmed out the statement that I've never
written a diary, but I do write out thoughts and reminders
that I occasionally "clean up" and sort out.
--
Rich Ulrich
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