Discussion:
Is physics a province of white, heteronormal males
(too old to reply)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-09-28 17:34:52 UTC
Permalink
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students


https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p

"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"

On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
--
athel
Harrison Hill
2018-09-28 17:55:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.

They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
charles
2018-09-28 18:18:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to start
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-09-28 19:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to start
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
That is technically correct. However, technician is often thought of as
an "engineer" even if not an "Engineer". He or he is a skilled worker in
engineering.

Leaving school at 16 and not going to university doesn't necessarily
equate to an absence of further training/education.

This organisation handles training for Oil & Gas technicians.
https://aset.co.uk/pages/about

ASET International Oil & Gas Training Academy is a trading name of
Aberdeen Skills and Enterprise Training Ltd(ASET), a wholly owned
subsidiary company of North East Scotland College (“NESCol”). The
Company operates mainly on a commercial basis for the Oil & Gas and
Construction industries in Process, Maintenance Engineering,
Electrical and Ex Hazardous Areas, Emergency Response, Marine,
including DP and Stability and Scaffolding on a worldwide basis
ASET remits all revenue surpluses to NESCol and does not retain any
cash or profit.

The Academy has a range of market leading technology and equipment
which includes the fully functional ABCOL Oil & Gas Production
Training Platform and Delta V Control System; most up-to-date HV /
LV switchgear; Hazardous Area Ex Centre; Emergency Response Training
Department; Marine Operations, Dynamic Positioning and Semi-
Submersible and Jack-Up Training Simulator - ensuring that delegates
are trained and develop new skills in a realistic but safe
environment. “Reality without the risk”.

City & Guilds Credit Rated and Levelled Courses

ASET’s exclusive range of City & Guilds credit rated and levelled
Oil and Gas short courses allow delegates attending these courses
the opportunity to demonstrate their ongoing professional
development. This exclusive range of courses are not only recognised
within the SCQF framework but also provide the building blocks to
enhance existing qualifications and provide a road map to further
modes of study.

'Splaining:

"City & Guilds" is an organisation in the UK that awards vocational
qualifications.
https://www.cityandguilds.com/about-us

"SCQF" is an organisation known as the "Scottish Qualifications.
Framework":
http://scqf.org.uk/
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Ross
2018-09-28 21:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by charles
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to start
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
That is technically correct. However, technician is often thought of as
an "engineer" even if not an "Engineer". He or he is a skilled worker in
engineering.
Leaving school at 16 and not going to university doesn't necessarily
equate to an absence of further training/education.
This organisation handles training for Oil & Gas technicians.
https://aset.co.uk/pages/about
ASET International Oil & Gas Training Academy is a trading name of
Aberdeen Skills and Enterprise Training Ltd(ASET), a wholly owned
subsidiary company of North East Scotland College (“NESCol”). The
Company operates mainly on a commercial basis for the Oil & Gas and
Construction industries in Process, Maintenance Engineering,
Electrical and Ex Hazardous Areas, Emergency Response, Marine,
including DP and Stability and Scaffolding on a worldwide basis
ASET remits all revenue surpluses to NESCol and does not retain any
cash or profit.
The Academy has a range of market leading technology and equipment
which includes the fully functional ABCOL Oil & Gas Production
Training Platform and Delta V Control System; most up-to-date HV /
LV switchgear; Hazardous Area Ex Centre; Emergency Response Training
Department; Marine Operations, Dynamic Positioning and Semi-
Submersible and Jack-Up Training Simulator - ensuring that delegates
are trained and develop new skills in a realistic but safe
environment. “Reality without the risk”.
City & Guilds Credit Rated and Levelled Courses
ASET’s exclusive range of City & Guilds credit rated and levelled
Oil and Gas short courses allow delegates attending these courses
the opportunity to demonstrate their ongoing professional
development. This exclusive range of courses are not only recognised
within the SCQF framework but also provide the building blocks to
enhance existing qualifications and provide a road map to further
modes of study.
"City & Guilds" is an organisation in the UK that awards vocational
qualifications.
https://www.cityandguilds.com/about-us
"SCQF" is an organisation known as the "Scottish Qualifications.
http://scqf.org.uk/
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.
An uncle of mine was a "stationary engineer", meaning he didn't drive
a train. He ran the power plant at a sawmill. I don't think he had a degree
in anything.
Richard Yates
2018-09-28 22:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by charles
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to start
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
That is technically correct. However, technician is often thought of as
an "engineer" even if not an "Engineer". He or he is a skilled worker in
engineering.
Leaving school at 16 and not going to university doesn't necessarily
equate to an absence of further training/education.
This organisation handles training for Oil & Gas technicians.
https://aset.co.uk/pages/about
ASET International Oil & Gas Training Academy is a trading name of
Aberdeen Skills and Enterprise Training Ltd(ASET), a wholly owned
subsidiary company of North East Scotland College (“NESCol”). The
Company operates mainly on a commercial basis for the Oil & Gas and
Construction industries in Process, Maintenance Engineering,
Electrical and Ex Hazardous Areas, Emergency Response, Marine,
including DP and Stability and Scaffolding on a worldwide basis
ASET remits all revenue surpluses to NESCol and does not retain any
cash or profit.
The Academy has a range of market leading technology and equipment
which includes the fully functional ABCOL Oil & Gas Production
Training Platform and Delta V Control System; most up-to-date HV /
LV switchgear; Hazardous Area Ex Centre; Emergency Response Training
Department; Marine Operations, Dynamic Positioning and Semi-
Submersible and Jack-Up Training Simulator - ensuring that delegates
are trained and develop new skills in a realistic but safe
environment. “Reality without the risk”.
City & Guilds Credit Rated and Levelled Courses
ASET’s exclusive range of City & Guilds credit rated and levelled
Oil and Gas short courses allow delegates attending these courses
the opportunity to demonstrate their ongoing professional
development. This exclusive range of courses are not only recognised
within the SCQF framework but also provide the building blocks to
enhance existing qualifications and provide a road map to further
modes of study.
"City & Guilds" is an organisation in the UK that awards vocational
qualifications.
https://www.cityandguilds.com/about-us
"SCQF" is an organisation known as the "Scottish Qualifications.
http://scqf.org.uk/
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.
An uncle of mine was a "stationary engineer", meaning he didn't drive
a train. He ran the power plant at a sawmill. I don't think he had a degree
in anything.
And the ones who collect the bins are "sanitary engineers".
Cheryl
2018-09-28 22:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Yates
Post by Ross
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.
An uncle of mine was a "stationary engineer", meaning he didn't drive
a train. He ran the power plant at a sawmill. I don't think he had a degree
in anything.
And the ones who collect the bins are "sanitary engineers".
One of my grandfathers was a mechanic - not a car mechanic (the usual
local meaning of the term) but someone who eventually ran an industrial
machine shop. Once I heard a reference that he might have been an
engineer had he gotten the education - but no one ever called technical
workers like that "engineers". Coming rather abruptly to the present
day, you can take courses at a local college to qualify as a technician
with various specialties, or longer courses to qualify as a
technologist. There's a very wide range of specialties offered - civil.
electrical, mechanical engineering, surveying, instrumentation, chemical
processes and on and on - but none of these graduates would ever call
themselves or be called "engineers". Engineers take a lengthy university
program, and even when they graduate aren't technically fully qualified
- like future doctors, they need a further period of working under a
suitably qualified engineer.

Different parts of the world may have different terminology, of course.
--
Cheryl
Jerry Friedman
2018-09-29 00:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheryl
Post by Richard Yates
Post by Ross
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.
An uncle of mine was a "stationary engineer", meaning he didn't drive
a train. He ran the power plant at a sawmill. I don't think he had a degree
in anything.
And the ones who collect the bins are "sanitary engineers".
One of my grandfathers was a mechanic - not a car mechanic (the usual
local meaning of the term) but someone who eventually ran an industrial
machine shop. Once I heard a reference that he might have been an
engineer had he gotten the education - but no one ever called technical
workers like that "engineers". Coming rather abruptly to the present
day,
I sometimes feel that way.
Post by Cheryl
you can take courses at a local college to qualify as a technician
with various specialties, or longer courses to qualify as a
technologist. There's a very wide range of specialties offered - civil.
electrical, mechanical engineering, surveying, instrumentation, chemical
processes and on and on - but none of these graduates would ever call
themselves or be called "engineers". Engineers take a lengthy university
program, and even when they graduate aren't technically fully qualified
- like future doctors, they need a further period of working under a
suitably qualified engineer.
Different parts of the world may have different terminology, of course.
But it's the same in this part.
--
Jerry Friedman
bill van
2018-09-28 22:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by charles
Post by Harrison Hill
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students>
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the>
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because
physics> >> > can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might>
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not
normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to start
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
That is technically correct. However, technician is often thought of as
an "engineer" even if not an "Engineer". He or he is a skilled worker in
engineering.
Leaving school at 16 and not going to university doesn't necessarily
equate to an absence of further training/education.
This organisation handles training for Oil & Gas technicians.
https://aset.co.uk/pages/about
ASET International Oil & Gas Training Academy is a trading name of
Aberdeen Skills and Enterprise Training Ltd(ASET), a wholly owned
subsidiary company of North East Scotland College (“NESCol”). The
Company operates mainly on a commercial basis for the Oil & Gas and
Construction industries in Process, Maintenance Engineering, Electrical
and Ex Hazardous Areas, Emergency Response, Marine,
including DP and Stability and Scaffolding on a worldwide basis
ASET remits all revenue surpluses to NESCol and does not retain any
cash or profit.
The Academy has a range of market leading technology and equipment
which includes the fully functional ABCOL Oil & Gas Production
Training Platform and Delta V Control System; most up-to-date HV /
LV switchgear; Hazardous Area Ex Centre; Emergency Response Training
Department; Marine Operations, Dynamic Positioning and Semi-
Submersible and Jack-Up Training Simulator - ensuring that delegates
are trained and develop new skills in a realistic but safe
environment. “Reality without the risk”.
City & Guilds Credit Rated and Levelled Courses
ASET’s exclusive range of City & Guilds credit rated and levelled
Oil and Gas short courses allow delegates attending these courses
the opportunity to demonstrate their ongoing professional
development. This exclusive range of courses are not only recognised
within the SCQF framework but also provide the building blocks to
enhance existing qualifications and provide a road map to further
"City & Guilds" is an organisation in the UK that awards vocational
qualifications.
https://www.cityandguilds.com/about-us
"SCQF" is an organisation known as the "Scottish Qualifications.
http://scqf.org.uk/
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.An uncle of mine was a
"stationary engineer", meaning he didn't drive
a train. He ran the power plant at a sawmill. I don't think he had a degree
in anything.
Various countries have different requirements for stationary engineers,
most requiring a certificate indicating a level of training. A friend in
university worked summers as a stationary engineer in a pulp mill,
keeping an eye on instrument panels to make sure pressures
and other measures didn't leave the safe zone.

bill
Mark Brader
2018-09-29 00:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.
Actually, according to the OED Online, sense 6, "a person who operates
an engine" only dates back to 1738. It referred to fire engines
first, then (first cited in 1815) to shipboard steam engines as well
as locomotives.

On the other hand, sense 2, "Originally: a person who designs or
builds engines or other machinery. Subsequently more generally:
a person who uses specialized knowledge or skills to design, build,
and maintain complicated equipment, systems, processes, etc.; an expert
in or student of engineering. Frequently with distinguishing word",
is dated to about 1500.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "I seem to have become a signature quote."
***@vex.net -- David Keldsen

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Quinn C
2018-09-29 02:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.
An engineer used to be a guy who hoisted petards.
--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women
Peter T. Daniels
2018-09-29 02:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
An engineer used to be a guy who drove a train.
An uncle of mine was a "stationary engineer", meaning he didn't drive
a train. He ran the power plant at a sawmill. I don't think he had a degree
in anything.
Sister Eleanor became the first female stationary engineer licensed in
NYC when the school moved to its new building in 1966 and Mother Ruth
didn't see a need to hire a full-time staff person to supervise the
janitors.
Tak To
2018-09-29 00:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by charles
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to start
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
That is technically correct. However, technician is often thought of as
an "engineer" even if not an "Engineer". He or he is a skilled worker in
engineering.
Not in AmE. (Not that ACB or HH is an AmE speaker.)

An engineer in AmE is essentially an "applied scientist". It
is generally not associated with licensure or formal accreditation.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Jerry Friedman
2018-09-29 00:45:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by charles
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-upenn-philadelphia-students
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost entirely
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to start
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
That is technically correct. However, technician is often thought of as
an "engineer" even if not an "Engineer". He or he is a skilled worker in
engineering.
Not in AmE. (Not that ACB or HH is an AmE speaker.)
An engineer in AmE is essentially an "applied scientist". It
is generally not associated with licensure or formal accreditation.
But I think it's very hard to get a job as one if you don't have a
bachelor's in engineering or something close.
--
Jerry Friedman
Cheryl
2018-09-29 01:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 19:18:22 +0100, charles
In article
On Friday, 28 September 2018 18:34:56 UTC+1, Athel
Cornish-Bowden wrote:
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/09/physics-gender-pronouns-website-u
penn-philadelphia-students
Post by Tak To
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://tinyurl.com/yd6oka9p
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her
pronouns on the
Post by Tak To
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about
pronouns might
Post by Tak To
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is
almost entirely
Post by Tak To
male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you
need, to start
Post by Tak To
off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
That is technically correct. However, technician is often
thought of as
Post by Tak To
an "engineer" even if not an "Engineer". He or he is a skilled worker in
engineering.
Not in AmE. (Not that ACB or HH is an AmE speaker.)
An engineer in AmE is essentially an "applied scientist". It
is generally not associated with licensure or formal accreditation.
In Canada, engineers are licensed, and the requirements are quite
strictly enforced. It requires both university education and
experience after graduating. There are regulatory bodies in each
province, much like there are for doctors and lawyers.
--
Cheryl
bill van
2018-09-29 05:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheryl
In Canada, engineers are licensed, and the requirements are quite
strictly enforced. It requires both university education and experience
after graduating. There are regulatory bodies in each province, much
like there are for doctors and lawyers.
Yes. Those regulatory bodies are not government agencies, but the
professional associations
that set the standards of the profession and discipline those who
violate them. They're quite
powerful organizations -- they decide who can practise the trade and
who can't -- but in my
experience in Canada, they are competent enough not to make many enemies.

bill
Mark Brader
2018-09-29 06:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Cheryl
In Canada, engineers are licensed, and the requirements are quite
strictly enforced. It requires both university education and experience
after graduating. There are regulatory bodies in each province, much
like there are for doctors and lawyers.
Yes. Those regulatory bodies are not government agencies, but the
professional associations that set the standards of the profession
and discipline those who violate them. They're quite powerful
organizations -- they decide who can practise the trade and who
can't -- but in my experience in Canada, they are competent enough
not to make many enemies.
For a moment I read that as "they are not competent enough to make
many enemies".


Before they changed the rules (relatively recently), an application
for a Canadian passport used to require a guarantor who would attest
to the facts on your application and to the photo you submitted being
a photo of you. I don't remember all the requirements that applied to
a guarantor then, but I know that people who were in certain regulated
occupations qualified as guarantors. I suspect that most people would
have asked their doctor to be their guarantor, but my wife asked her
brother-in-law, because he's a professional engineer and qualified for
that reason.

Professional engineers are still on the list of people who can be
guarantors for a Refugee Travel Document or Certificate of Identity,
I find.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Truth speak from any chair."
***@vex.net -- Charlie Chan at the Wax Museum

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Peter Moylan
2018-09-29 08:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Harrison Hill
Engineering in the oil industry in Europe and the USA, is almost
entirely male, USA, British or Norwegian.
They don't go to University and they leave school at 16yrs if they can.
That's not Engineering. To become a Chartered Engineer you need, to
start off, a degree. You are describing mechanics or technicians.
Perhaps Harrison is a couple of generations older than the rest of us.
In the 19th century it was apparently common to apply the term
"engineer" to people who would today be called mechanics or sometimes
technicians. Engineering degrees came into being when it was realised
that you could use physics and mathematics, rather than guesswork, to
design structures that wouldn't fall down.

There were once only two kinds of engineers: military engineers and
civil engineers. The military engineers designed the weapons and the
civil engineers designed the targets. But, more than any other duty, the
military engineers were the "sappers" who dug the trenches and bridged
the rivers. Several armies, including the Australian one, still use the
term "engineers" for that corps.

I'm not sure when the "train driver" meaning entered the language,
because that meaning never existed in AusE.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Quinn C
2018-09-29 02:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
No, that's not the implication of the word "heteronormal".

Besides, I'm sure most of them will proudly declare that they're not
normal. I always did, even before I started asking for unusual
pronouns. Who the heck wants to be normal?
--
...an explanatory principle - like "gravity" or "instinct" -
really explains nothing. It’s a sort of conventional agreement
between scientists to stop trying to explain things at a
certain point. -- Gregory Bateson
Cheryl
2018-09-29 03:07:47 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:12:16 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
On Friday, 28 September 2018 18:34:56 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"Physics professor Andrea Liu, who decided to list her pronouns on the
website, said she thinks the project was a good idea because physics
can be a 'province of white, heteronormal males.'"
On reading this I wondered if the people who fuss about pronouns might
feel that "heteronormal" was a suggestion that they were not normal.
No, that's not the implication of the word "heteronormal".
Besides, I'm sure most of them will proudly declare that they're not
normal. I always did, even before I started asking for unusual
pronouns. Who the heck wants to be normal?
Lots of people. It seems a very, er, normal desire to me.
--
Cheryl
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