Discussion:
Difference between mitigated and decreased?
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Dingbat
2021-04-04 16:12:16 UTC
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Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?

In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the pandemic.

"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge," Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially."

https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-toll-225213208-120738997.html

What does MITIGATED mean here?
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-04 18:28:30 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?
In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the pandemic.
"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge," Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially."
https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-toll-225213208-120738997.html
What does MITIGATED mean here?
Mitigation, to me, implies that something is ACTING to decrease the
quantity or intensity in question.

Decrease, by contrast, can be completely without an active cause.

Now let's see how many people disagree with that statement. I wish I had
a way to mitigate THAT.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Stefan Ram
2021-04-04 18:49:09 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Mitigation, to me, implies that something is ACTING to decrease the
quantity or intensity in question.
I found this in a page from the World-Wide Web:

|The sea breezes provide air to the grapes when it is too hot
|and they mitigate the temperature when it is too cold.

. When it is "too cold" to "mitigate the temperature" might
mean to /increase/ it!

(The alleged author of the quote is a "Susannah G.", where
"G." is an abbreviation for "Gold" introduced by me. The
name indicates that the author might be a native speaker.)
pensive hamster
2021-04-04 19:46:40 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Dingbat
Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?
In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the pandemic.
"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge," Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially."
https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-toll-225213208-120738997.html
What does MITIGATED mean here?
Mitigation, to me, implies that something is ACTING to decrease the
quantity or intensity in question.
Decrease, by contrast, can be completely without an active cause.
Now let's see how many people disagree with that statement. I wish I had
a way to mitigate THAT.
In the context of "... could have been mitigated or decreased substantially",
mitigated seems to mean "reduced slightly".
Eric Walker
2021-04-04 20:58:45 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?
In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast
later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge
of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the
pandemic.
"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,"
Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been
mitigated or decreased substantially."
https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-
toll-225213208-120738997.html
Post by Dingbat
What does MITIGATED mean here?
My guess would be that "decreased" means the number of cases would have
been smaller, hence also the number of deaths; "mitigated" means that the
consequences of many cases could have been lessened, also meaning fewer
deaths. Thus, proper responses could have minimized the death toll in
two ways: fewer cases to begin with, and fewer deaths from those cases
that did occur.

Speaking ad lib can produce fuzzy sentences even from intelligent folk.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-04 22:08:52 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?
In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast
later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge
of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the
pandemic.
"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,"
Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been
mitigated or decreased substantially."
https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-
toll-225213208-120738997.html
Post by Dingbat
What does MITIGATED mean here?
My guess would be that "decreased" means the number of cases would have
been smaller, hence also the number of deaths; "mitigated" means that the
consequences of many cases could have been lessened, also meaning fewer
deaths. Thus, proper responses could have minimized the death toll in
two ways: fewer cases to begin with, and fewer deaths from those cases
that did occur.
Speaking ad lib can produce fuzzy sentences even from intelligent folk.
Yep. The only point of the sentence is that after the original surge, the number
of deaths could have been reduced substantially. I suspect that Birx started
with "mitigated", realized that wasn't the word she wanted, and used a fairly
common wording to correct it to a word that wasn't as obviously wrong. But
I'm not taking any bets. I just want to suggest that there's no reason to look for
a "difference between 'mitigated' and 'decreased'" that she might have used to
convey her meaning.

In general, mitigate applies to harm.
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-04 22:35:59 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?
In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast
later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge
of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the
pandemic.
"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,"
Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been
mitigated or decreased substantially."
https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-
toll-225213208-120738997.html
Post by Dingbat
What does MITIGATED mean here?
My guess would be that "decreased" means the number of cases would have
been smaller, hence also the number of deaths; "mitigated" means that the
consequences of many cases could have been lessened, also meaning fewer
deaths. Thus, proper responses could have minimized the death toll in
two ways: fewer cases to begin with, and fewer deaths from those cases
that did occur.
Speaking ad lib can produce fuzzy sentences even from intelligent folk.
Yep. The only point of the sentence is that after the original surge, the number
of deaths could have been reduced substantially. I suspect that Birx started
with "mitigated", realized that wasn't the word she wanted, and used a fairly
common wording to correct it to a word that wasn't as obviously wrong. But
I'm not taking any bets. I just want to suggest that there's no reason to look for
a "difference between 'mitigated' and 'decreased'" that she might have used to
convey her meaning.
In general, mitigate applies to harm.
Do US court proceedings allow for a plea in mitigation?
Once a guilty verdict has been given, the defence can offer things like
"He isn't a bad person, but he was badly lead astray by people who he
thought were his friends" etc. etc.
In the hope that the judge might wipe a tear from their eye and give a
much reduced sentence.[1]

[1] Using "their" there seemed very clumsy. What were my alternatives?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Stefan Ram
2021-04-04 23:09:12 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
In the hope that the judge might wipe a tear from their eye and give a
much reduced sentence.[1]
[1] Using "their" there seemed very clumsy. What were my alternatives?
Can't find this source now, but I recently read somewhere that in the
history of the of African-American Vernacular there was a time and
place where "he" was used by the speakers to refer to man and women.
Stefan Ram
2021-04-04 23:14:49 UTC
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Supersedes: <he-***@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
["man"->"men"]
Post by Sam Plusnet
In the hope that the judge might wipe a tear from their eye and give a
much reduced sentence.[1]
[1] Using "their" there seemed very clumsy. What were my alternatives?
Can't find this source now, but I recently read somewhere that in the
history of the of African-American Vernacular there was a time and
place where "he" was used by the speakers to refer to men and women.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-05 00:54:06 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?
In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast
later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge
of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the
pandemic.
"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,"
Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been
mitigated or decreased substantially."
https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-
toll-225213208-120738997.html
Post by Dingbat
What does MITIGATED mean here?
My guess would be that "decreased" means the number of cases would have
been smaller, hence also the number of deaths; "mitigated" means that the
consequences of many cases could have been lessened, also meaning fewer
deaths. Thus, proper responses could have minimized the death toll in
two ways: fewer cases to begin with, and fewer deaths from those cases
that did occur.
Speaking ad lib can produce fuzzy sentences even from intelligent folk.
Yep. The only point of the sentence is that after the original surge, the number
of deaths could have been reduced substantially. I suspect that Birx started
with "mitigated", realized that wasn't the word she wanted, and used a fairly
common wording to correct it to a word that wasn't as obviously wrong. But
I'm not taking any bets. I just want to suggest that there's no reason to look for
a "difference between 'mitigated' and 'decreased'" that she might have used to
convey her meaning.
In general, mitigate applies to harm.
Do US court proceedings allow for a plea in mitigation?
Once a guilty verdict has been given, the defence can offer things like
"He isn't a bad person, but he was badly lead astray by people who he
thought were his friends" etc. etc.
I haven't heard the phrase "plea in mitigation". The judge might take
"mitigating circumstances" into account. What you describe would be
part of a "sentencing hearing" over here, which also includes the victim(s)
or their survivors tell the judge how they deserve justice and closure,
how many lives the criminal has ruined, etc.
Post by Sam Plusnet
In the hope that the judge might wipe a tear from their eye and give a
much reduced sentence.[1]
[1] Using "their" there seemed very clumsy. What were my alternatives?
"His or her", "eir", etc. Or "the judge might wipe away a tear".

-J
pensive hamster
2021-04-05 09:24:18 UTC
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[...]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Do US court proceedings allow for a plea in mitigation?
Once a guilty verdict has been given, the defence can offer things like
"He isn't a bad person, but he was badly lead astray by people who he
thought were his friends" etc. etc.
I haven't heard the phrase "plea in mitigation". The judge might take
"mitigating circumstances" into account. What you describe would be
part of a "sentencing hearing" over here, which also includes the victim(s)
or their survivors tell the judge how they deserve justice and closure,
how many lives the criminal has ruined, etc.
Over here, "plea in mitigation" seems almost a term of art. But the
first page of search results on "plea in mitigation" are all UK sites,
plus one Australian. For example:

https://barristerblogger.com/advocacy-tips/the-plea-in-mitigation/

'The Plea in Mitigation

'No matter how good an advocate you may be, in the majority of
cases your client will be convicted of, or will plead guilty to
something and will have to be sentenced. How do you get him the
lowest possible sentence?

'A bad plea in mitigation can be painful to watch unless you are a
connoisseur of cliché.

"Pleaded guilty at earliest opportunity … deep remorse … can’t
excuse but can explain … moment of madness … reached
cross-roads of his life … suspended sentence will be a salutary
reminder hanging over him … "

'No-one will be persuaded by that sort of nonsense, any more
than by the weird language of the pre-sentence report with its
"dynamic risk indicators" and "criminogenic causality matrices."
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-04-05 14:15:06 UTC
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On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 02:24:18 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster
Post by pensive hamster
[...]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Do US court proceedings allow for a plea in mitigation?
Once a guilty verdict has been given, the defence can offer things like
"He isn't a bad person, but he was badly lead astray by people who he
thought were his friends" etc. etc.
I haven't heard the phrase "plea in mitigation". The judge might take
"mitigating circumstances" into account. What you describe would be
part of a "sentencing hearing" over here, which also includes the victim(s)
or their survivors tell the judge how they deserve justice and closure,
how many lives the criminal has ruined, etc.
Over here, "plea in mitigation" seems almost a term of art. But the
first page of search results on "plea in mitigation" are all UK sites,
https://barristerblogger.com/advocacy-tips/the-plea-in-mitigation/
'The Plea in Mitigation
The Plea in Mitigation is when the alleged Mitigating Circumstances are
described and explained.
Post by pensive hamster
'No matter how good an advocate you may be, in the majority of
cases your client will be convicted of, or will plead guilty to
something and will have to be sentenced. How do you get him the
lowest possible sentence?
'A bad plea in mitigation can be painful to watch unless you are a
connoisseur of cliché.
"Pleaded guilty at earliest opportunity … deep remorse … can’t
excuse but can explain … moment of madness … reached
cross-roads of his life … suspended sentence will be a salutary
reminder hanging over him … "
'No-one will be persuaded by that sort of nonsense, any more
than by the weird language of the pre-sentence report with its
"dynamic risk indicators" and "criminogenic causality matrices."
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-05 13:14:17 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Subject: Difference between mitigated and decreased?
In an interview with CNN, parts of which were released before broadcast
later on Sunday, Birx said there was an "excuse" for the initial surge
of deaths last year as the government grappled with the start of the
pandemic.
"There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,"
Birx said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been
mitigated or decreased substantially."
https://www.aol.com/news/birx-says-covid-death-
toll-225213208-120738997.html
Post by Dingbat
What does MITIGATED mean here?
My guess would be that "decreased" means the number of cases would have
been smaller, hence also the number of deaths; "mitigated" means that the
consequences of many cases could have been lessened, also meaning fewer
deaths. Thus, proper responses could have minimized the death toll in
two ways: fewer cases to begin with, and fewer deaths from those cases
that did occur.
Speaking ad lib can produce fuzzy sentences even from intelligent folk.
Yep. The only point of the sentence is that after the original surge, the number
of deaths could have been reduced substantially. I suspect that Birx started
with "mitigated", realized that wasn't the word she wanted, and used a fairly
common wording to correct it to a word that wasn't as obviously wrong. But
I'm not taking any bets. I just want to suggest that there's no reason to look for
a "difference between 'mitigated' and 'decreased'" that she might have used to
convey her meaning.
In general, mitigate applies to harm.
Do US court proceedings allow for a plea in mitigation?
Once a guilty verdict has been given, the defence can offer things like
"He isn't a bad person, but he was badly lead astray by people who he
thought were his friends" etc. etc.
In the hope that the judge might wipe a tear from their eye and give a
much reduced sentence.[1]
[1] Using "their" there seemed very clumsy. What were my alternatives?
50+ years ago, my mother occasionally got a ticket (whether for parking
or for a moving violation, I know not), and an option among the pleas in
NYC municipal court was "guilty with an explanation." In JC, I have gotten
the occasional parking ticket, and the plea is "not guilty," and then you
explain to the judge why he should dismiss it. Usually the explanation
succeeds.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-05 13:10:24 UTC
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Post by Eric Walker
Speaking ad lib can produce fuzzy sentences even from intelligent folk.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
"Speaking ad lib" is the only sort of speaking there is. Orating, from a
prepared text, whether it's visible or not, is reciting in written English,
and it usually sounds ridiculous.

Case in point: the semiliterate t****, who when forced to read from
a prepared text (e.g. on TelePrompTer) has no affect whatsoever,
compared to the stem-winding rabblerousing of his preferred approach.
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