Discussion:
"Should you think she heard me?"
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Pamela
2021-01-28 17:17:30 UTC
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In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s, one of
the better-educated characters says:

"Should you think she heard me?"

Is this good English? If so, what form of grammar is she using? It
seems strange to me.
Stefan Ram
2021-01-28 19:01:21 UTC
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Post by Pamela
"Should you think she heard me?"
I can find this on a web site claiming to teach English:

|III. SHOULD YOU? and WOULD YOU? in questions. EXAMPLES
...
|3. Should you think that ten yards of velvet would be
|enough? [Yes, I should think so.]
...
|The choice between SHOULD and WOULD in these sentences
|corresponds to the form expected in the answer.
|The chief occasions on which WOULD YOU? is correct are
|(1) in asking advice in a matter of doubt
|(2) in asking consent or permission

Well, to me, this all sounds so confusingly strange, it
might be quaint, Canadian, or even /British/! And, indeed:

|In England, "shall" is used to express the simple future for
|first person ...
|In the United States, we seldom use "shall" ...
...
|"Should" is usually replaced, nowadays, by "would".

.
Ross Clark
2021-01-28 20:08:04 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Pamela
"Should you think she heard me?"
|III. SHOULD YOU? and WOULD YOU? in questions. EXAMPLES
...
|3. Should you think that ten yards of velvet would be
|enough? [Yes, I should think so.]
...
|The choice between SHOULD and WOULD in these sentences
|corresponds to the form expected in the answer.
|The chief occasions on which WOULD YOU? is correct are
|(1) in asking advice in a matter of doubt
|(2) in asking consent or permission
Well, to me, this all sounds so confusingly strange, it
|In England, "shall" is used to express the simple future for
|first person ...
|In the United States, we seldom use "shall" ...
...
|"Should" is usually replaced, nowadays, by "would".
This explanation makes sense, though I can't believe someone is teaching
it as if it were present-day English. Tt's old Fowlerian WILL/SHALL,
again, applied to a very delicate form of questioning. That's why it
sounds strange to living speakers. But it did exist:

1751 R. Paltock Life Peter Wilkins II. xxi. 270 Sir, says I, after a
seeming Muse for some time, what should you think of Oniwheske [for a wife]?

1754 S. Richardson Hist. Sir Charles Grandison VII. xxxviii. 186
Should you, madam,..be unwilling to see the Count as a friend of your
family, as a respecter of your great qualities, as a country-man?

1757 Hist. Two Mod. Adventurers ix. 121 What should you think,
Nanny, said I, of seeing me live like a Lord in the World?

1785 J. Trusler Mod. Times III. 81 Should you like any thing up
stairs, or would you prefer it in the kitchen?

1811 M. R. Mitford Let. 11 Aug. in A. G. L'Estrange Life (1870) I. v.
147 How should you like him for a son-in-law?

1816 Times 7 Sept. 2/3 Should you not think that number of
public-houses and dram-shops most intolerably large?—I should think it
very prejudicial. And much beyond the necessary call?—I should think so.

1819 J. Keats Let. 22 Sept. (1958) II. 179 Should you like me for a
neighbour again? Come now, plump it out, I wont blush.

1853 C. Dickens Bleak House xxxii. 316 ‘Tony,’ says Mr. Guppy,
uncrossing and recrossing his legs again; ‘should you say that the
original was a man's writing or a woman's?’

1872 G. F. Root Normal Musical Hand-bk. iv. xxiv. 299 The first
inversion is when the base is three... What should you suppose the base
would be in the second inversion?

1904 H. James Golden Bowl I. ii. xiii. 240 ‘Should you require to
see the Prince's?’ ‘Not a bit. You can keep that also to yourself.’

[Historical novel set in early 19th century]
1986 P. O'Brian Reverse of Medal vi. 189 Should you like to see a
lesser pettichaps on her nest, not half a mile from here?
Pamela
2021-01-28 21:12:37 UTC
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Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Pamela
"Should you think she heard me?"
|III. SHOULD YOU? and WOULD YOU? in questions. EXAMPLES
...
|3. Should you think that ten yards of velvet would be
|enough? [Yes, I should think so.]
...
|The choice between SHOULD and WOULD in these sentences
|corresponds to the form expected in the answer.
|The chief occasions on which WOULD YOU? is correct are
|(1) in asking advice in a matter of doubt
|(2) in asking consent or permission
Well, to me, this all sounds so confusingly strange, it
|In England, "shall" is used to express the simple future for
|first person ...
|In the United States, we seldom use "shall" ...
...
|"Should" is usually replaced, nowadays, by "would".
This explanation makes sense, though I can't believe someone is
teaching it as if it were present-day English. Tt's old Fowlerian
WILL/SHALL, again, applied to a very delicate form of questioning.
1751 R. Paltock Life Peter Wilkins II. xxi. 270 Sir, says I,
after a seeming Muse for some time, what should you think of
Oniwheske [for a wife]?
1754 S. Richardson Hist. Sir Charles Grandison VII. xxxviii. 186
Should you, madam,..be unwilling to see the Count as a friend of
your family, as a respecter of your great qualities, as a
country-man?
1757 Hist. Two Mod. Adventurers ix. 121 What should you think,
Nanny, said I, of seeing me live like a Lord in the World?
1785 J. Trusler Mod. Times III. 81 Should you like any thing
up stairs, or would you prefer it in the kitchen?
1811 M. R. Mitford Let. 11 Aug. in A. G. L'Estrange Life (1870)
I. v. 147 How should you like him for a son-in-law?
1816 Times 7 Sept. 2/3 Should you not think that number of
public-houses and dram-shops most intolerably large?—I should
think it very prejudicial. And much beyond the necessary call?—I
should think so.
1819 J. Keats Let. 22 Sept. (1958) II. 179 Should you like me
for a neighbour again? Come now, plump it out, I wont blush.
1853 C. Dickens Bleak House xxxii. 316 ‘Tony,’ says Mr.
Guppy, uncrossing and recrossing his legs again; ‘should you say
that the original was a man's writing or a woman's?’
1872 G. F. Root Normal Musical Hand-bk. iv. xxiv. 299 The
first inversion is when the base is three... What should you
suppose the base would be in the second inversion?
1904 H. James Golden Bowl I. ii. xiii. 240 ‘Should you
require to see the Prince's?’ ‘Not a bit. You can keep that
also to yourself.’
[Historical novel set in early 19th century]
1986 P. O'Brian Reverse of Medal vi. 189 Should you like to
see a lesser pettichaps on her nest, not half a mile from here?
Some of those extracts use "should" in exactly the same way as my
quotation does but it still sounds strange to my ears.
CDB
2021-01-29 14:08:36 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Pamela
"Should you think she heard me?"
|III. SHOULD YOU? and WOULD YOU? in questions. EXAMPLES ... |3.
Should you think that ten yards of velvet would be |enough? [Yes,
I should think so.] ... |The choice between SHOULD and WOULD in
these sentences |corresponds to the form expected in the answer.
|The chief occasions on which WOULD YOU? is correct are |(1) in
asking advice in a matter of doubt |(2) in asking consent or
permission
Well, to me, this all sounds so confusingly strange, it might be
|In England, "shall" is used to express the simple future for
|first person ... |In the United States, we seldom use "shall"
... ... |"Should" is usually replaced, nowadays, by "would".
This explanation makes sense, though I can't believe someone is
teaching it as if it were present-day English. Tt's old Fowlerian
WILL/SHALL, again, applied to a very delicate form of questioning.
1751 R. Paltock Life Peter Wilkins II. xxi. 270 Sir, says I,
after a seeming Muse for some time, what should you think of
Oniwheske [for a wife]?
If she were offered to you in marriage?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1754 S. Richardson Hist. Sir Charles Grandison VII. xxxviii. 186
Should you, madam,..be unwilling to see the Count as a friend of
your family, as a respecter of your great qualities, as a
country-man?
If you had to decide?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1757 Hist. Two Mod. Adventurers ix. 121 What should you think,
Nanny, said I, of seeing me live like a Lord in the World?
If I did?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1785 J. Trusler Mod. Times III. 81 Should you like any thing up
stairs, or would you prefer it in the kitchen?
If that were arranged?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1811 M. R. Mitford Let. 11 Aug. in A. G. L'Estrange Life (1870)
I. v. 147 How should you like him for a son-in-law?
If he proposed to your daughter?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1816 Times 7 Sept. 2/3 Should you not think that number of
public-houses and dram-shops most intolerably large?—I should think
it very prejudicial. And much beyond the necessary call?—I should
think so.
If they increased so far?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1819 J. Keats Let. 22 Sept. (1958) II. 179 Should you like me
for a neighbour again? Come now, plump it out, I wont blush.
If I moved next door?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1853 C. Dickens Bleak House xxxii. 316 ‘Tony,’ says Mr. Guppy,
uncrossing and recrossing his legs again; ‘should you say that the
original was a man's writing or a woman's?’
If you had to decide?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1872 G. F. Root Normal Musical Hand-bk. iv. xxiv. 299 The first
inversion is when the base is three... What should you suppose the
base would be in the second inversion?
If I were to ask directly?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1904 H. James Golden Bowl I. ii. xiii. 240 ‘Should you require
to see the Prince's?’ ‘Not a bit. You can keep that also to
yourself.’
If I offered to show it you?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
[Historical novel set in early 19th century] 1986 P. O'Brian
Reverse of Medal vi. 189 Should you like to see a lesser
pettichaps on her nest, not half a mile from here?
If I took you there?
Post by Pamela
Some of those extracts use "should" in exactly the same way as my
quotation does but it still sounds strange to my ears.
Ross's wealth of examples make it clear that that "should" is a past
subjunctive, the result-clause of a irrealis condition, with the
"if-clause" usually unexpressed.

As Stefan suggests, the use of "should" instead of "would" may be an
anticipation of the answer: "Why, yes, I should think she did hear you".
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-30 16:14:29 UTC
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Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Pamela
"Should you think she heard me?"
|III. SHOULD YOU? and WOULD YOU? in questions. EXAMPLES ... |3.
Should you think that ten yards of velvet would be |enough? [Yes,
I should think so.] ... |The choice between SHOULD and WOULD in
these sentences |corresponds to the form expected in the answer.
|The chief occasions on which WOULD YOU? is correct are |(1) in
asking advice in a matter of doubt |(2) in asking consent or
permission
Well, to me, this all sounds so confusingly strange, it might be
|In England, "shall" is used to express the simple future for
|first person ... |In the United States, we seldom use "shall"
... ... |"Should" is usually replaced, nowadays, by "would".
This explanation makes sense, though I can't believe someone is
teaching it as if it were present-day English. Tt's old Fowlerian
WILL/SHALL, again, applied to a very delicate form of questioning.
1751 R. Paltock Life Peter Wilkins II. xxi. 270 Sir, says I,
after a seeming Muse for some time, what should you think of
Oniwheske [for a wife]?
If she were offered to you in marriage?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1754 S. Richardson Hist. Sir Charles Grandison VII. xxxviii. 186
Should you, madam,..be unwilling to see the Count as a friend of
your family, as a respecter of your great qualities, as a
country-man?
If you had to decide?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1757 Hist. Two Mod. Adventurers ix. 121 What should you think,
Nanny, said I, of seeing me live like a Lord in the World?
If I did?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1785 J. Trusler Mod. Times III. 81 Should you like any thing up
stairs, or would you prefer it in the kitchen?
If that were arranged?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1811 M. R. Mitford Let. 11 Aug. in A. G. L'Estrange Life (1870)
I. v. 147 How should you like him for a son-in-law?
If he proposed to your daughter?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1816 Times 7 Sept. 2/3 Should you not think that number of
public-houses and dram-shops most intolerably large?—I should think
it very prejudicial. And much beyond the necessary call?—I should
think so.
If they increased so far?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1819 J. Keats Let. 22 Sept. (1958) II. 179 Should you like me
for a neighbour again? Come now, plump it out, I wont blush.
If I moved next door?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1853 C. Dickens Bleak House xxxii. 316 ‘Tony,’ says Mr. Guppy,
uncrossing and recrossing his legs again; ‘should you say that the
original was a man's writing or a woman's?’
If you had to decide?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1872 G. F. Root Normal Musical Hand-bk. iv. xxiv. 299 The first
inversion is when the base is three... What should you suppose the
base would be in the second inversion?
If I were to ask directly?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
1904 H. James Golden Bowl I. ii. xiii. 240 ‘Should you require
to see the Prince's?’ ‘Not a bit. You can keep that also to
yourself.’
If I offered to show it you?
Post by Pamela
Post by Ross Clark
[Historical novel set in early 19th century] 1986 P. O'Brian
Reverse of Medal vi. 189 Should you like to see a lesser
pettichaps on her nest, not half a mile from here?
If I took you there?
Post by Pamela
Some of those extracts use "should" in exactly the same way as my
quotation does but it still sounds strange to my ears.
Ross's wealth of examples make it clear that that "should" is a past
subjunctive, the result-clause of a irrealis condition, with the
"if-clause" usually unexpressed.
As Stefan suggests, the use of "should" instead of "would" may be an
anticipation of the answer: "Why, yes, I should think she did hear you".
In which case it's not the result clause of an irrealis condition, right?
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2021-01-31 14:01:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[Fowler's dictum and many counterexamples on historical principles]
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by CDB
Ross's wealth of examples make it clear that that "should" is a
past subjunctive, the result-clause of a irrealis condition, with
the "if-clause" usually unexpressed.
As Stefan suggests, the use of "should" instead of "would" may be
an anticipation of the answer: "Why, yes, I should think she did
hear you".
In which case it's not the result clause of an irrealis condition, right?
As it would be if the word employed were "would"? I think "would" is
what those "should"s should be, if not for the speculated anticipatory
shift.

If any English-speakers made Fowler's distinction before Fowler, they
were a relatively small contingent of southern Englishpersons; all
others (me, frex) fall down at the subtler jumps.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-28 21:30:56 UTC
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Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Pamela
"Should you think she heard me?"
|III. SHOULD YOU? and WOULD YOU? in questions. EXAMPLES
...
|3. Should you think that ten yards of velvet would be
|enough? [Yes, I should think so.]
...
|The choice between SHOULD and WOULD in these sentences
|corresponds to the form expected in the answer.
|The chief occasions on which WOULD YOU? is correct are
|(1) in asking advice in a matter of doubt
|(2) in asking consent or permission
Well, to me, this all sounds so confusingly strange, it
|In England, "shall" is used to express the simple future for
|first person ...
|In the United States, we seldom use "shall" ...
...
|"Should" is usually replaced, nowadays, by "would".
This explanation makes sense, though I can't believe someone is teaching
it as if it were present-day English. Tt's old Fowlerian WILL/SHALL,
again, applied to a very delicate form of questioning. That's why it
1751 R. Paltock Life Peter Wilkins II. xxi. 270 Sir, says I, after a
seeming Muse for some time, what should you think of Oniwheske [for a wife]?
1754 S. Richardson Hist. Sir Charles Grandison VII. xxxviii. 186
Should you, madam,..be unwilling to see the Count as a friend of your
family, as a respecter of your great qualities, as a country-man?
1757 Hist. Two Mod. Adventurers ix. 121 What should you think,
Nanny, said I, of seeing me live like a Lord in the World?
1785 J. Trusler Mod. Times III. 81 Should you like any thing up
stairs, or would you prefer it in the kitchen?
1811 M. R. Mitford Let. 11 Aug. in A. G. L'Estrange Life (1870) I. v.
147 How should you like him for a son-in-law?
1816 Times 7 Sept. 2/3 Should you not think that number of
public-houses and dram-shops most intolerably large?—I should think it
very prejudicial. And much beyond the necessary call?—I should think so.
1819 J. Keats Let. 22 Sept. (1958) II. 179 Should you like me for a
neighbour again? Come now, plump it out, I wont blush.
1853 C. Dickens Bleak House xxxii. 316 ‘Tony,’ says Mr. Guppy,
uncrossing and recrossing his legs again; ‘should you say that the
original was a man's writing or a woman's?’
1872 G. F. Root Normal Musical Hand-bk. iv. xxiv. 299 The first
inversion is when the base is three... What should you suppose the base
would be in the second inversion?
1904 H. James Golden Bowl I. ii. xiii. 240 ‘Should you require to
see the Prince's?’ ‘Not a bit. You can keep that also to yourself.’
[Historical novel set in early 19th century]
1986 P. O'Brian Reverse of Medal vi. 189 Should you like to see a
lesser pettichaps on her nest, not half a mile from here?
It's odd that a script-writer -- or show-runner -- who could use
"momentarily" in the modern American sense would be able
to deploy such a subtle archaism so appropriately.

(As for the 1986 quote, at the time of all the O'Brian fanfare some
years back, I tried the first novel in the series and found it unreadable.)
Paul Carmichael
2021-01-29 12:09:14 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Pamela
"Should you think she heard me?"
|III. SHOULD YOU? and WOULD YOU? in questions. EXAMPLES
...
|3. Should you think that ten yards of velvet would be
|enough? [Yes, I should think so.]
...
|The choice between SHOULD and WOULD in these sentences
|corresponds to the form expected in the answer.
|The chief occasions on which WOULD YOU? is correct are
|(1) in asking advice in a matter of doubt
|(2) in asking consent or permission
Sorry, but that's nonsense to me (BrE).

I should cocoa.

Should, may, might etc. are all used sometimes for subjunctive effect.

"Should (in case) you be interested, there's a pigeon in your ear."

Never in a question.
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio
Jack
2021-01-28 20:12:29 UTC
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Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s, one of
"Should you think she heard me?"
Is this good English? If so, what form of grammar is she using? It
seems strange to me.
It depends on the preceding dialog and maybe other context, and what
was meant. Suppose it went like this:

A I think she heard you!

B: Do you? SHOULD you think she heard me? Should you have any opinion
about that at all, you airh
Pamela
2021-01-28 21:10:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jack
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s, one
"Should you think she heard me?"
Is this good English? If so, what form of grammar is she using? It
seems strange to me.
It depends on the preceding dialog and maybe other context, and
A I think she heard you!
B: Do you? SHOULD you think she heard me? Should you have any
opinion about that at all, you airh
Attachment decoded: untitled-1.txt
There's a script at the link below but it's a bit confusing as it
doesn't show who the speaker is.

<https://subslikescript.com/series/Bridgerton-8740790/season-1/episode-
1-Diamond_of_the_First_Water>
Janet
2021-01-29 12:07:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Jack
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s, one
"Should you think she heard me?"
Is this good English? If so, what form of grammar is she using? It
seems strange to me.
It depends on the preceding dialog and maybe other context, and
A I think she heard you!
B: Do you? SHOULD you think she heard me? Should you have any
opinion about that at all, you airh
Attachment decoded: untitled-1.txt
There's a script at the link below but it's a bit confusing as it
doesn't show who the speaker is.
<https://subslikescript.com/series/Bridgerton-8740790/season-1/episode-
1-Diamond_of_the_First_Water>
I just watched Bridgerton for the first and last time yesterday, so
can put you out of your misery.

The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"

Bridgerton is a pile of shit on many levels, including the
dialogue.


Janet
Sam Plusnet
2021-01-29 19:19:15 UTC
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Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
musika
2021-01-29 19:45:44 UTC
Reply
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below,
bawls like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those
present ""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
Not just that.
Post by Sam Plusnet
With the exception of
housewife, are there any other terms which use this rather odd
construction?
Alewife.
--
Ray
UK
Paul Wolff
2021-01-29 23:05:28 UTC
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Post by musika
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below,
bawls like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those
present ""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
Not just that.
Post by Sam Plusnet
With the exception of
housewife, are there any other terms which use this rather odd
construction?
Alewife.
Goodwife might work.

Muddying the waters, can I except 'housewife' by pointing out 'hussive'?
It's the same word really, but means a small case of sewing equipment.
--
Paul
Quinn C
2021-01-29 23:12:04 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
What's odd about it?
--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220
Stefan Ram
2021-01-29 23:28:41 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
Freely invented:
"The brakes on my bike are defective. I will go
to the bike lady tomorrow and ask her to fix it."

One can guess that a "bike lady" is some being
that is female, adult and can repair bikes (and
possibly also is selling them).

(Not in connection with that construction: In Italy,
a woman who sells fish was a "pesciaiola", but today
she only is a "pescivendola".)
Bebercito
2021-01-30 01:15:09 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
And likewise, a kalewife is a woman who sells kale (cabbage).
Post by Sam Plusnet
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
"Farmwife" for a farmer's wife is pretty odd too, if a bit different.
Post by Sam Plusnet
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Bebercito
2021-01-30 01:29:33 UTC
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Post by Bebercito
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
And likewise, a kalewife is a woman who sells kale (cabbage).
Post by Sam Plusnet
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
"Farmwife" for a farmer's wife is pretty odd too, if a bit different.
Not to mention that a midwife is not the other half of a husband.
Post by Bebercito
Post by Sam Plusnet
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Janet
2021-01-30 12:42:12 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
spaewife (Scots)

Janet
Ken Blake
2021-01-30 15:16:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?


Midwife?
--
Ken
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-01-30 15:50:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?
Midwife?
A midwife sells babies.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-30 16:01:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?
Midwife?
A midwife sells babies.
Little Buttercup:

"When I was young and charming
I practiced baby-farming"

I suppose it's too simplistic to suppose that a midwife is
simply someone who is "with" (mit) a wife.
Tony Cooper
2021-01-30 16:15:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:50:40 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?
Midwife?
A midwife sells babies.
No, she's the second of his three wives.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Pamela
2021-01-30 17:04:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:50:40 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting,
the eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is
getting impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the
hall below, bawls like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she
smirks to those present ""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms
which use this rather odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?
Midwife?
A midwife sells babies.
No, she's the second of his three wives.
She sleeps between the other two.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-30 18:41:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:50:40 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?
Midwife?
A midwife sells babies.
No, she's the second of his three wives.
Marla! (So far.)
Ken Blake
2021-01-30 18:46:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:50:40 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below, bawls
like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those present
""Should you think she heard me?"
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish.
With the exception of housewife, are there any other terms which use
this rather odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?
Midwife?
A midwife sells babies.
No, she's the second of his three wives.
No, she's neither the tallest nor the shortest of his three wives.
--
Ken
Peter Moylan
2021-01-30 22:44:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:50:40 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
A fishwife is a woman who sells fish. With the exception of
housewife, are there any other terms which use this rather
odd construction?
A housewife sells houses?
Midwife?
A midwife sells babies.
No, she's the second of his three wives.
No, she's neither the tallest nor the shortest of his three wives.
From /The Wizard of Id/:

"Sire, the sultan of Arabia is visiting. He has a thousand wives, each
more beautiful than the next."
"Each more beautiful than the next?"
"Only if you line them up that way."
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Pamela
2021-01-30 10:59:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Pamela
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 17:17:30 GMT, Pamela
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s,
"Should you think she heard me?"
Is this good English? If so, what form of grammar is she using?
It seems strange to me.
It depends on the preceding dialog and maybe other context, and
A I think she heard you!
B: Do you? SHOULD you think she heard me? Should you have any
untitled-1.txt
There's a script at the link below but it's a bit confusing as it
doesn't show who the speaker is.
<https://subslikescript.com/series/Bridgerton-8740790/season-
1/episode-1-Diamond_of_the_First_Water>
I just watched Bridgerton for the first and last time
yesterday, so
can put you out of your misery.
The family is getting ready to go out; carriage is waiting, the
eldest daughter is still primping upstairs and Mother is getting
impatient. One of the younger sisters, standing in the hall below,
bawls like a fishwife to hurry up. Then she smirks to those
present
""Should you think she heard me?"
Bridgerton is a pile of shit on many levels, including the
dialogue.
Janet
Bridgerton is a children's fairy tale in a period setting and has
been a runaway success for Netflix with its biggest audience ever.
Production values are high and there's no reason to believe the
dialogue is sloppy.
Lewis
2021-01-28 22:01:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s, one of
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a historical period.
--
'Are you Death?' IT'S THE SCYTHE, ISN'T IT? PEOPLE ALWAYS NOTICE THE
SCYTHE.
Pamela
2021-01-30 11:03:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s,
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England. The
novels are said to go up to 1827.
Lewis
2021-01-30 17:38:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s,
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or less so
than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.

It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a time
period that has resemblances to Regency England.

Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining that
Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
--
"Thank you for sending me a copy of your book; I'll waste no time
reading it." - Moses Hadas
Tony Cooper
2021-01-30 21:07:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s,
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or less so
than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a time
period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining that
Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!

Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in "Bridgerton"
do not reflect real life, the characters do and say things that real
people would not do or say under the same circumstances, and
fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in entertainment programming!

While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am sure
that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a sad effort to
gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the public demands in
television and movie fare.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-01-30 21:32:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s,
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or less
so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a time
period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining that
Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in "Bridgerton"
do not reflect real life, the characters do and say things that real
people would not do or say under the same circumstances, and
fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am sure
that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a sad effort to
gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the public demands in
television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Pamela
2021-01-30 22:13:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:07:25 GMT, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a
historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or
less so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a
time period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining
that Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am
sure that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a sad
effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the public
demands in television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly even
flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.

Of course it attends to the prurient demands of modern youth by
having a sex scene three minutes into the first episode.
Stefan Ram
2021-01-30 22:41:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly even
flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.
Famously, "Barry Lyndon" by Stanley Kubrik was the first
movie to feature candlelight-only scenes.
Sam Plusnet
2021-01-31 01:32:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:07:25 GMT, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a
historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or
less so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a
time period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining
that Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am
sure that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a sad
effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the public
demands in television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly even
flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.
Of course it attends to the prurient demands of modern youth by
having a sex scene three minutes into the first episode.
Are you implying that modern youth have an attention span of three minutes?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Tony Cooper
2021-01-31 05:02:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Pamela
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:07:25 GMT, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a
historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or
less so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a
time period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining
that Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am
sure that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a sad
effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the public
demands in television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly even
flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.
Of course it attends to the prurient demands of modern youth by
having a sex scene three minutes into the first episode.
Are you implying that modern youth have an attention span of three minutes?
I think he's wrong. The sex scenes are in there for the middle-aged
and older. The youth today aren't interested in watching it because
they're too busying doing it.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Pamela
2021-01-31 10:56:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Pamela
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:07:25 GMT, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a
historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency
England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England
or less so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian
England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something
like a time period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining
that Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual
elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and
say things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I
am sure that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a
sad effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the
public demands in television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly
even flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.
Of course it attends to the prurient demands of modern youth by
having a sex scene three minutes into the first episode.
Are you implying that modern youth have an attention span of three minutes?
Of course not. Modern youth's attention span is much shorter than
that.

I was pointing to modern youth's need for frequent sexual material,
no doubt fuelled by the tidal wave of porn flooding their computers
and smartphones.
Lewis
2021-01-31 03:20:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:07:25 GMT, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a
historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or
less so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a
time period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining
that Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am
sure that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a sad
effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the public
demands in television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly even
flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.
Well sure, all fairy tales should be filmed by candle light, just like
Barry Lyndon.
Post by Pamela
Of course it attends to the prurient demands of modern youth by
having a sex scene three minutes into the first episode.
Oh noes!
--
Jamie, would you rather be a lion or a panda?
Coach, I'm me. Why would I want to be anyone else?
I'm not sure you realize how psychologically healthy that is.
Pamela
2021-01-31 11:01:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:07:25 GMT, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a
historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency
England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England
or less so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian
England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like
a time period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining
that Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual
elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and
say things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I
am sure that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a
sad effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the
public demands in television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly
even flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.
Well sure, all fairy tales should be filmed by candle light, just
like Barry Lyndon.
Not with very flat lighting though.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-01-31 07:53:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:07:25 GMT, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a
historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or
less so than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a
time period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining
that Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am
sure that the producers have taken liberty with reality in a sad
effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the public
demands in television and movie fare.
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
I am intrigued the way rooms lit only by candles have perfectly even
flicker-free illumination in Bridgerton.
Of course it attends to the prurient demands of modern youth by
having a sex scene three minutes into the first episode.
Well that's it, innit. As David Lodge remarked, literature is mostly
about having sex and not much about having babies, but real life is the
other way around. Not just literature, of course: it also applies to
cinema.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Ken Blake
2021-01-31 14:33:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Almost all period dramas fail to show all the horseshit.
As opposed to Trump's television appearances.
--
Ken
Peter Moylan
2021-01-30 22:48:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
Once you get used to that, try "reality" shows whose connection with
reality is even more flimsy.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Snidely
2021-01-30 22:53:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
Once you get used to that, try "reality" shows whose connection with
reality is even more flimsy.
The reality is that we all have fantasies, and some of them make it to
the screen.

/dps
--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-01-31 07:55:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
Unlike most television and movie offerings, the scenes in
"Bridgerton" do not reflect real life, the characters do and say
things that real people would not do or say under the same
circumstances, and fabrication is rampant. Unheard of in
entertainment programming!
Once you get used to that, try "reality" shows whose connection with
reality is even more flimsy.
I'm not sure if I've ever watched a reality show, but from what I've
read I've wondered why they're called that.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Lewis
2021-01-31 03:19:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the early 1800s,
It is not a period drama. It does not take place in a historical period.
As I understand it, Bridgerton is set in 1813 Regency England.
In the same way as Mort d'Arthur is set in Post-Roman England or less so
than the way that Dracula is set in Victorian England.
It is not historical, it is a fantasy version of something like a time
period that has resemblances to Regency England.
Complaining about inaccuracies in it is a bit like complaining that
Paradise Lost is an inaccurate depiction of hell.
We should all rise up in revolt! Imagine...a popular
made-for-Netflix film employing fantasy and non-factual elements!
IKR!¹
Post by Tony Cooper
While I have not watched, and will not watch, "Bridgerton", I am sure
that the producers have taken liberty with reality
I do not think that was the point as I gather the books themselves are
also fantasy setting in a mythical Regency-like period, but the TV
series does take it up a notch (or 12), though i have not read the books
myself, others in my viewing group have. The point, I think, was to
make the rather silly RomCom more a bit sillier so that the fantasy
element was more obvious, to make significant changes to some aspects so
that the cast was not a bunch of white people, and of course to try to
make the shows entertaining and relevant, while also keeping the more
modern take on the whole Regency Romance genre (yes, evidently Regency
Romance is a genre all its own). I think it does quite a good job of
this, but it is still a silly RomCom and will not appeal to anyone who
doesn't like RomComs to begin with.

I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in 2020
that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl Friday and
Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
Post by Tony Cooper
in a sad effort to gain viewership. Quite the opposite of what the
public demands in television and movie fare.
There is certainly that as well.

You know what Excalibur really lacked? Authnetic 5th century armor and
politics!

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_(film)>

¹ "I know, right!?"
--
There used to be such simple directions, back in the days before they
invented parallel universes - Up and Down, Right and Left,
Backward and Forward, Past and Future... But normal directions
don't work in the multiverse, which has far too many dimensions
for anyone to find their way. So new ones have to be invented so
that the way can be found. Like: East of the Sun, West of the
Moon Or: Behind the North Wind. Or: At the Back of Beyond. Or:
There and Back Again. Or: Beyond the Fields We Know. --Lords and
Ladies
Tony Cooper
2021-01-31 05:18:33 UTC
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On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 03:19:02 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in 2020
that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl Friday and
Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
Drifting quite a bit...but on the subject of Netflix movies:

We watched "The Dig" tonight on Netflix...a "based on a true story"
film about the 1939 excavation of an Anglo-Saxon burial ship at Sutton
Hoo.

One of those rare films without an insoluable problem being solved, a
major crisis averted by a brilliant stroke of genius at the last
minute, a particularly dramatic moment, a steamy sex scene, or the
thwarting of particulary villainous character's scheme...that holds
your attention from beginning to end.

For extra points...what's a "Hoo"?
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter Moylan
2021-01-31 05:39:14 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 03:19:02 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in 2020
that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl Friday and
Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
We watched "The Dig" tonight on Netflix...a "based on a true story"
film about the 1939 excavation of an Anglo-Saxon burial ship at Sutton
Hoo.
One of those rare films without an insoluable problem being solved, a
major crisis averted by a brilliant stroke of genius at the last
minute, a particularly dramatic moment, a steamy sex scene, or the
thwarting of particulary villainous character's scheme...that holds
your attention from beginning to end.
For extra points...what's a "Hoo"?
I don't know, but I believe Horton heard one.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-01-31 10:20:17 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 03:19:02 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in 2020
that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl Friday and
Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
We watched "The Dig" tonight on Netflix...a "based on a true story"
film about the 1939 excavation of an Anglo-Saxon burial ship at Sutton
Hoo.
One of those rare films without an insoluable problem being solved, a
major crisis averted by a brilliant stroke of genius at the last
minute, a particularly dramatic moment, a steamy sex scene, or the
thwarting of particulary villainous character's scheme...that holds
your attention from beginning to end.
For extra points...what's a "Hoo"?
I ass-u-med it's from Howe from House, pronounced "wrongly".
But I've probably made it all up.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-01-31 10:29:15 UTC
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Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 03:19:02 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in 2020
that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl Friday and
Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
We watched "The Dig" tonight on Netflix...a "based on a true story"
film about the 1939 excavation of an Anglo-Saxon burial ship at Sutton
Hoo.
One of those rare films without an insoluable problem being solved, a
major crisis averted by a brilliant stroke of genius at the last
minute, a particularly dramatic moment, a steamy sex scene, or the
thwarting of particulary villainous character's scheme...that holds
your attention from beginning to end.
For extra points...what's a "Hoo"?
I ass-u-med it's from Howe from House, pronounced "wrongly".
But I've probably made it all up.
Wikipedia says 'Sutton Hoo derives its name from Old English. Sut
combined with tun means the "southern farmstead" or "settlement" and
hoh refers to a hill "shaped like a heel spur". The same ending
survives in a few other placenames, notably Plymouth Hoe and
Fingringhoe.'

I hadn't heard of Fingringhoe before, but apparently it's in Essex. On
the other hand I had not only heard of Plymouth Hoe, I've stood on it.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Ken Blake
2021-01-31 14:37:56 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 03:19:02 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in 2020
that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl Friday and
Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
We watched "The Dig" tonight on Netflix...a "based on a true story"
film about the 1939 excavation of an Anglo-Saxon burial ship at Sutton
Hoo.
One of those rare films without an insoluable problem being solved, a
major crisis averted by a brilliant stroke of genius at the last
minute, a particularly dramatic moment, a steamy sex scene, or the
thwarting of particulary villainous character's scheme...that holds
your attention from beginning to end.
For extra points...what's a "Hoo"?
I ass-u-med it's from Howe from House, pronounced "wrongly".
But I've probably made it all up.
Wikipedia says 'Sutton Hoo derives its name from Old English. Sut
combined with tun means the "southern farmstead" or "settlement" and
hoh refers to a hill "shaped like a heel spur". The same ending
survives in a few other placenames, notably Plymouth Hoe and
Fingringhoe.'
I hadn't heard of Fingringhoe before, but apparently it's in Essex. On
the other hand I had not only heard of Plymouth Hoe, I've stood on it.
I don't know anyone hoo has heard of it.
--
Ken
Pamela
2021-01-31 11:00:12 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 03:19:02 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in
2020 that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl
Friday and Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
We watched "The Dig" tonight on Netflix...a "based on a true
story" film about the 1939 excavation of an Anglo-Saxon burial
ship at Sutton Hoo.
One of those rare films without an insoluable problem being
solved, a major crisis averted by a brilliant stroke of genius at
the last minute, a particularly dramatic moment, a steamy sex
scene, or the thwarting of particulary villainous character's
scheme...that holds your attention from beginning to end.
For extra points...what's a "Hoo"?
I enjoyed "The Dig". It's rare for Netflix to produce anything
worthy of adult attention but that is one of those moments.
Lewis
2021-01-31 14:33:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 03:19:02 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I enjoyed it, but then again I've probably watched 30 movies in 2020
that would be considered RomComs, from rewatching His Girl Friday and
Dirty Dancing through to 2020's own Palm Springs.
We watched "The Dig" tonight on Netflix...a "based on a true story"
film about the 1939 excavation of an Anglo-Saxon burial ship at Sutton
Hoo.
One of those rare films without an insoluable problem being solved, a
major crisis averted by a brilliant stroke of genius at the last
minute, a particularly dramatic moment, a steamy sex scene, or the
thwarting of particulary villainous character's scheme...that holds
your attention from beginning to end.
For extra points...what's a "Hoo"?
Hill? House? Hugh?
--
In the velvet darkness of the blackest night Burning bright There's a
guiding star
Anton Shepelev
2021-02-01 21:01:18 UTC
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In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the
early 1800s, one of the better-educated characters
Should you think she heard me?
Is this good English? If so, what form of grammar
is she using? It seems strange to me.
I should need context to determine whether it is
good English, but it certainly may be. The literate
usage of will & shall and should & would is best de-
scribed in chapter "Shall and Will" of H.W. Fowler's
The King's English:

https://www.bartleby.com/116/213.html
https://archive.org/details/kingsenglish00fowlrich

That question uses the verb expected in the answer:

-- Yes, I should think she heard you.
-- No, I should not think she heard you.
--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-02-02 07:59:53 UTC
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Post by Anton Shepelev
In Netflix's "Bridgerton" period drama set in the
early 1800s, one of the better-educated characters
Should you think she heard me?
Is this good English? If so, what form of grammar
is she using? It seems strange to me.
I should need context to determine whether it is
good English, but it certainly may be. The literate
usage of will & shall and should & would is best de-
scribed in chapter "Shall and Will" of H.W. Fowler's
https://www.bartleby.com/116/213.html
https://archive.org/details/kingsenglish00fowlrich
Yes, if you have the stamina to read twenty or so pages describing the
usage among educated people at the beginning of the last century.
Post by Anton Shepelev
-- Yes, I should think she heard you.
-- No, I should not think she heard you.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
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