Discussion:
A Pictorial of Barriers (The Atlantic Magazine)
(too old to reply)
Tak To
2019-01-20 18:30:27 UTC
Permalink
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/

Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-20 20:29:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
Definitely a good one. My favorite was 18, though.

Obaue: According to the article, the Jeep "became high centered". I'd
write "it high-centered".
--
Jerry Friedman
Rich Ulrich
2019-01-21 07:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck up
well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the ladder
tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or maybe
left-hit-before/after right by too much.

But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
--
Rich Ulrich
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-21 17:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck up
well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the ladder
tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or maybe
left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
Maybe that was the first test.
--
Jerry Friedman
John Varela
2019-01-21 23:38:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 17:46:07 UTC, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck up
well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the ladder
tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or maybe
left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
Maybe that was the first test.
That seems likely. How many big ladders like that would they have
had to test with, and where would they a comparable wall to climb
over?
--
John Varela
Tak To
2019-01-21 18:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck up
well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the ladder
tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or maybe
left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
I am surprised to see that there are no lateral braces to keep
the ladders parallel.

There is a wire on the right ladder. Could the car have been
winched up?
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter Moylan
2019-01-22 04:42:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck
up well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the
ladder tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or
maybe left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
I am surprised to see that there are no lateral braces to keep the
ladders parallel.
There is a wire on the right ladder. Could the car have been winched
up?
I didn't realise they were ladders. In fact, I'm still not sure. I
assumed metal channels designed to keep the wheels on course.

(And it looks as though it worked, up until the rear wheels lost
traction because of the unfortunate geometry.)
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Tony Cooper
2019-01-22 05:10:02 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:42:43 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Tak To
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck
up well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the
ladder tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or
maybe left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
I am surprised to see that there are no lateral braces to keep the
ladders parallel.
There is a wire on the right ladder. Could the car have been winched
up?
I didn't realise they were ladders. In fact, I'm still not sure. I
assumed metal channels designed to keep the wheels on course.
(And it looks as though it worked, up until the rear wheels lost
traction because of the unfortunate geometry.)
The don't look like ladders to me. Too narrow. They look like ramps
constructed for this purpose that are channels just larger than the
width of a tire.

What it does show is how easily a wall can be scaled. Use those
things, stretch a cargo net between them, and dozens of people can
scale the wall in seconds. Just forget about using a vehicle.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-22 10:10:11 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:42:43 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Tak To
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck
up well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the
ladder tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or
maybe left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
I am surprised to see that there are no lateral braces to keep the
ladders parallel.
There is a wire on the right ladder. Could the car have been winched
up?
I didn't realise they were ladders. In fact, I'm still not sure. I
assumed metal channels designed to keep the wheels on course.
The vertical sides will certainly help to keep the wheels on course.
It wasn't until Tak To meantioned "ladders" that I looked more closely.
The right "channel" looks as though might have rungs. It is not possibly
to see whether the left channel has or not.

This might be of practical importance. Particularly when climbimg to the
top of the wall the wheels of car need to have a good grip on the
sloping "channels". Rungs might be better than a smooth metal surface,
particularly at the steep angle shown.
Post by Tak To
(And it looks as though it worked, up until the rear wheels lost
traction because of the unfortunate geometry.)
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Tak To
2019-01-23 02:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:42:43 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck
up well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the
ladder tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or
maybe left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
I am surprised to see that there are no lateral braces to keep the
ladders parallel.
There is a wire on the right ladder. Could the car have been winched
up?
I didn't realise they were ladders. In fact, I'm still not sure. I
assumed metal channels designed to keep the wheels on course.
The vertical sides will certainly help to keep the wheels on course.
It wasn't until Tak To meantioned "ladders" that I looked more closely.
Rich was the netter who suggested that they were ladders.
Post by Tony Cooper
The right "channel" looks as though might have rungs. It is not possibly
to see whether the left channel has or not.
This might be of practical importance. Particularly when climbimg to the
top of the wall the wheels of car need to have a good grip on the
sloping "channels". Rungs might be better than a smooth metal surface,
particularly at the steep angle shown.
Good point.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter Moylan
(And it looks as though it worked, up until the rear wheels lost
traction because of the unfortunate geometry.)
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-23 11:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:42:43 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
It looks to me like that was two tough, 35-foot ladders which stuck
up well above the fence. As expected, they pivoted when the Jeep
climbed past the midpoint. But they broke with the shock of the
ladder tops hitting the ground. Maybe they were moving too fast, or
maybe left-hit-before/after right by too much.
But I imagine that it was workable and tested.
I am surprised to see that there are no lateral braces to keep the
ladders parallel.
There is a wire on the right ladder. Could the car have been winched
up?
I didn't realise they were ladders. In fact, I'm still not sure. I
assumed metal channels designed to keep the wheels on course.
The vertical sides will certainly help to keep the wheels on course.
It wasn't until Tak To meantioned "ladders" that I looked more closely.
Rich was the netter who suggested that they were ladders.
Post by Tony Cooper
The right "channel" looks as though might have rungs. It is not possibly
to see whether the left channel has or not.
This might be of practical importance. Particularly when climbimg to the
top of the wall the wheels of car need to have a good grip on the
sloping "channels". Rungs might be better than a smooth metal surface,
particularly at the steep angle shown.
Good point.
It would be no surprise if ramps intended for a steeper angle would be
even more ladder-like.

These loading ramps for a normal angle are very ladder-like:
https://www.transquip.co.nz/Products/Aluminium-Loading-Ramps/2-4m-850kg-alloy-loading-ramps.html
and similar ramps in use:
Loading Image...
Post by Tak To
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter Moylan
(And it looks as though it worked, up until the rear wheels lost
traction because of the unfortunate geometry.)
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
occam
2019-01-21 07:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-barriers/580480/
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
Thanks for the link, nice collection of photos. That Hadrian's wall
(#10) looks daunting, doesn't it?
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-21 11:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-
barriers/580480/
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
Thanks for the link, nice collection of photos. That Hadrian's wall
(#10) looks daunting, doesn't it?
It is; it's usually wet muddy and miserable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall_Path


but it has been subject to 2000yrs of stone-robbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall#Dimensions
estimates 5m-6m high.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
John Varela
2019-01-21 23:41:22 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:36:29 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Tak To
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-
barriers/580480/
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
Thanks for the link, nice collection of photos. That Hadrian's wall
(#10) looks daunting, doesn't it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall_Path
but it has been subject to 2000yrs of stone-robbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall#Dimensions
estimates 5m-6m high.
A college friend went on an archaeological dig in Ireland and had a
wonderful time, every evening in the pub with the guys and so forth.
So he went on a second dig, this time to Hadrian's Wall. Mud.
Cold. No pubs within 20 miles and no wheels. Never again.
--
John Varela
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-22 11:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:36:29 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Tak To
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-
barriers/580480/
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
Thanks for the link, nice collection of photos. That Hadrian's wall
(#10) looks daunting, doesn't it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall_Path
but it has been subject to 2000yrs of stone-robbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall#Dimensions
estimates 5m-6m high.
A college friend went on an archaeological dig in Ireland and had a
wonderful time, every evening in the pub with the guys and so forth.
So he went on a second dig, this time to Hadrian's Wall. Mud.
Cold. No pubs within 20 miles and no wheels. Never again.
So a pretty good idea of what it was like for the poor souls that
had to guard it in its heyday then.
Katy Jennison
2019-01-22 16:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by John Varela
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:36:29 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Tak To
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-
barriers/580480/
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
Thanks for the link, nice collection of photos. That Hadrian's wall
(#10) looks daunting, doesn't it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall_Path
but it has been subject to 2000yrs of stone-robbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall#Dimensions
estimates 5m-6m high.
A college friend went on an archaeological dig in Ireland and had a
wonderful time, every evening in the pub with the guys and so forth.
So he went on a second dig, this time to Hadrian's Wall. Mud.
Cold. No pubs within 20 miles and no wheels. Never again.
So a pretty good idea of what it was like for the poor souls that
had to guard it in its heyday then.
Muddy and cold from that day to this, but I think the Romans might have
had pubs at decent intervals along it. The archaeology suggests so, anyway.
--
Katy Jennison
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-22 18:06:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:15:58 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by John Varela
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:36:29 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Tak To
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
See
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/01/separation-
barriers/580480/
Post by occam
Post by Tak To
Photo #12 should be of special interest to netters who took
part in the recent discussion on ladders etc.
Thanks for the link, nice collection of photos. That Hadrian's wall
(#10) looks daunting, doesn't it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall_Path
but it has been subject to 2000yrs of stone-robbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall#Dimensions
estimates 5m-6m high.
A college friend went on an archaeological dig in Ireland and had a
wonderful time, every evening in the pub with the guys and so forth.
So he went on a second dig, this time to Hadrian's Wall. Mud.
Cold. No pubs within 20 miles and no wheels. Never again.
So a pretty good idea of what it was like for the poor souls that
had to guard it in its heyday then.
Muddy and cold from that day to this, but I think the Romans might have
had pubs at decent intervals along it. The archaeology suggests so, anyway.
Yes, but more than pubs. Extracts from an article reporting research:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/archaeology/3463005/Hadrians-wall-boosted-economy-for-ancient-Britons-archaeologists-discover.html

Far from being a hated symbol of military occupation, Hadrian's Wall
was the business opportunity of a lifetime for ancient Britons,
archaeologists have discovered.

Farmers, traders, craftsmen, labourers and prostitutes seized the
occasion to make money from the presence of hundreds of Roman
troops.

Instead of being wiped out by the Romans, the local population
appears to have flourished as part of a booming military economy.

Mr MacLeod, senior investigator for English Heritage's aerial
survey and investigating team, said: "Having got over the first
shock of the invasion and occupation the native population began to
see the potential created by the presence of the Roman garrison.

"The building of the wall appears to have provided a boost to the
local economy. A sophisticated network seems to have grown up to
supply the new market created by the occupation."

He said the survey found photographic evidence of several farmsteads
and field networks on either side of the wall which would have
adapted themselves to supply crops, livestock and other raw
materials, such as leather, to the Romans.

Mr MacLeod added: "The Romans preferred to pacify the natives
without resorting to violence, as its military force was dependent
on the local population to provide it with goods and services.

"Every Roman fort along the wall attracted a motley collection of
people selling food, alcohol and crafts, as well as labourers and
even prostitutes."

The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.

"The locals would have had to pay taxes, but there must have been
substantial economic benefits going both ways," said Mr MacLeod.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-22 20:01:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
<***@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
charles
2019-01-22 21:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-22 22:54:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.

After you with the decayed fish sauce.
--
Sam Plusnet
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-23 00:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-23 00:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
Neither one takes a decade to prepare.
--
Sam Plusnet
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-23 02:48:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
Neither one takes a decade to prepare.
I don't know much about making garum. The only times mentioned at
this page are "several months" and "two months".

https://coquinaria.nl/en/roman-fish-sauce/

"The smell really is not bad at all."
--
Jerry Friedman
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-23 12:14:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
Neither one takes a decade to prepare.
Are you sure because the Kikkoman soy sauce ad clearly states
that it's been "brewed naturally for over 300 years".
pensive hamster
2019-01-23 16:49:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
Neither one takes a decade to prepare.
This website says Worcestershire sauce manufacture involves
pickling onions and garlic in vinegar for one to two years until the
onions and garlic liquefy, plus anchovies cured in salt for several
months. Once all the ingredients are finally mixed together, they
mature in tanks for another few months.

The pictures of barrels of squidgy onions, and decaying anchovies,
look pretty unpleasant. The sauce is pasteurised at the end of the
process.


Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-23 16:57:55 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:49:58 GMT, pensive hamster
<***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
[]
Post by pensive hamster
This website says Worcestershire sauce manufacture involves
pickling onions and garlic in vinegar for one to two years until the
onions and garlic liquefy, plus anchovies cured in salt for several
months. Once all the ingredients are finally mixed together, they
mature in tanks for another few months.
The pictures of barrels of squidgy onions, and decaying anchovies,
look pretty unpleasant. The sauce is pasteurised at the end of the
process.
http://youtu.be/_NYfFUrNFUk
I am able to obtain (here, UK) worcester sauce flavour crisps (USA-
chips). They are Vegan. Adding anchovies is not done; nor would
"Worcestershire" fit on the packet.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Quinn C
2019-01-23 18:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:49:58 GMT, pensive hamster
[]
Post by pensive hamster
This website says Worcestershire sauce manufacture involves
pickling onions and garlic in vinegar for one to two years until the
onions and garlic liquefy, plus anchovies cured in salt for several
months. Once all the ingredients are finally mixed together, they
mature in tanks for another few months.
The pictures of barrels of squidgy onions, and decaying anchovies,
look pretty unpleasant. The sauce is pasteurised at the end of the
process.
http://youtu.be/_NYfFUrNFUk
I am able to obtain (here, UK) worcester sauce flavour crisps (USA-
chips). They are Vegan. Adding anchovies is not done;
That doesn't mean anything about the original product - there are vegan
bacon-flavored chips available here.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
nor would
"Worcestershire" fit on the packet.
In some countries (but not the UK), "Worcestershire sauce" is a
registered trademark, so no product other than Lea&Perrins can use it.
--
The notion that there might be a "truth" of sex, as Foucault
ironically terms it, is produced precisely through the regulatory
practices that generate coherent identities through the matrix of
coherent gender norms. -- Judith Butler
HVS
2019-01-23 17:57:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 08:49:58 -0800 (PST), pensive hamster
<***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

-snip -
Post by pensive hamster
This website says Worcestershire sauce manufacture involves
pickling onions and garlic in vinegar for one to two years until the
onions and garlic liquefy, plus anchovies cured in salt for several
months. Once all the ingredients are finally mixed together, they
mature in tanks for another few months.
The pictures of barrels of squidgy onions, and decaying anchovies,
look pretty unpleasant. The sauce is pasteurised at the end of the
process.
That must sting. I'd rather it went no higher than my knees, TBH.
Paul Wolff
2019-01-23 20:31:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
Neither one takes a decade to prepare.
This website says Worcestershire sauce manufacture involves
pickling onions and garlic in vinegar for one to two years until the
onions and garlic liquefy, plus anchovies cured in salt for several
months. Once all the ingredients are finally mixed together, they
mature in tanks for another few months.
The pictures of barrels of squidgy onions, and decaying anchovies,
look pretty unpleasant. The sauce is pasteurised at the end of the
process.
http://youtu.be/_NYfFUrNFUk
I think it should be pasturised - put out to grass. That might be
interesting. I was impressed by the recent decision of the European
Intellectual Property Office's First Board of Appeal (you can see where
I get my late night soporific bedside reading) to cancel the trademark
registration CHEESE for "Grains and agricultural, horticultural and
forestry products not included in other classes; seeds" on the grounds
that "cheese" already denotes a certain kind of seed among certain
consumers (you know who you are). Those European judges are no slouches.
--
Paul
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-23 08:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
ObAUE. In my experience Americans always make it a tongue twister:
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?

*To save Maddie the trouble of asking, "we" means the people I knew
when I were a lad. I can easily believe that it's different in
Sunderland or Llangollen.
--
athel
charles
2019-01-23 09:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Paul Wolff
2019-01-23 13:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
--
Paul
Katy Jennison
2019-01-23 16:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a
good
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
--
Katy Jennison
pensive hamster
2019-01-23 16:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a
good
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-23 17:34:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a
good
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2019-01-23 17:51:39 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a
good
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
Adam Funk
2019-01-29 11:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
I was under the impression it was "sauce anglaise" in French, but I'm
having trouble substantiating that on the WWW.
--
I'm after rebellion --- I'll settle for lies.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-29 11:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
I was under the impression it was "sauce anglaise" in French, but I'm
having trouble substantiating that on the WWW.
Might you be confusing it with crème anglaise (custard)?
Adam Funk
2019-01-29 18:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
I was under the impression it was "sauce anglaise" in French, but I'm
having trouble substantiating that on the WWW.
Might you be confusing it with crème anglaise (custard)?
I've never made that mistake in the kitchen.
--
The Nixon I remembered was absolutely humorless; I couldn't imagine
him laughing at anything except maybe a paraplegic who wanted to vote
Democratic but couldn't quite reach the lever on the voting machine.
---Hunter S Thompson
Quinn C
2019-01-29 17:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
I was under the impression it was "sauce anglaise" in French, but I'm
having trouble substantiating that on the WWW.
Sauce anglaise is usually custard, IINM.

For Worcester(shire) sauce, Wiktionary lists "salsa anglesa" in
Catalan, and "molho inglês" in Portuguese, as well as "kecap inggris"
in Indonesian.
--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220
Adam Funk
2019-01-29 18:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
I was under the impression it was "sauce anglaise" in French, but I'm
having trouble substantiating that on the WWW.
Sauce anglaise is usually custard, IINM.
I know that as "crème anglaise", but maybe it's also s.a.
Post by Quinn C
For Worcester(shire) sauce, Wiktionary lists "salsa anglesa" in
Catalan, and "molho inglês" in Portuguese, as well as "kecap inggris"
in Indonesian.
--
But the government always tries to coax well-known writers into the
Establishment; it makes them feel educated. ---Robert Graves
Quinn C
2019-01-29 18:33:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
I was under the impression it was "sauce anglaise" in French, but I'm
having trouble substantiating that on the WWW.
Sauce anglaise is usually custard, IINM.
I know that as "crème anglaise",
You're right, that's what I was thinking of.
Post by Adam Funk
but maybe it's also s.a.
Some French writers on the Net seem to use it.
--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-29 21:54:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 09:34:21 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Called "La Salsa Inglesa" in Mexico.
I was under the impression it was "sauce anglaise" in French, but I'm
having trouble substantiating that on the WWW.
Sauce anglaise is usually custard, IINM.
For Worcester(shire) sauce, Wiktionary lists "salsa anglesa" in
Catalan, and "molho inglês" in Portuguese, as well as "kecap inggris"
in Indonesian.
The French wikiparticle on Worcestershire sauce is titled "Sauce
Worcestershire", and the article doesn't offer any alternative
names. (And I learned that there's a dish of toast and melted
cheese called "le welsh", neatly dodging the rarebit-rabbit
controversy.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-23 20:25:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Worcester ("Woosta") is a city in Massachusetts.
Quinn C
2019-01-23 23:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent". A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
Worcester ("Woosta") is a city in Massachusetts.
My first visit to Massachusetts took me to Woburn ("Wooburn"). For
practical purposes, part of Boston.
--
But I have nver chosen my human environment. I have always
borrowed it from someone like you or Monk or Doris.
-- Jane Rule, This Is Not For You, p.152
John Varela
2019-01-23 20:37:53 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 17:34:21 UTC, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a
good
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent".
That depends on where you live.


Post by Jerry Friedman
A silent
"shire" is too much for us to handle.
--
John Varela
Quinn C
2019-01-24 19:51:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 17:34:21 UTC, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent".
That depends on where you live.
http://youtu.be/AckzNzbF5E4
I liked: "I don't even know what sounds letters make any more."

How is this not everyone's experience with English?
--
Are you sure your sanity chip is fully screwed in?
-- Kryten to Rimmer (Red Dwarf)
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-24 20:33:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by John Varela
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 17:34:21 UTC, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
We have enough trouble remembering that the "rce" is silent".
That depends on where you live.
http://youtu.be/AckzNzbF5E4
I liked: "I don't even know what sounds letters make any more."
How is this not everyone's experience with English?
It is. You're preaching to the *choir*.
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-23 20:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a
good
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
Plus another, but my version would be something like "Wuster".
--
Sam Plusnet
pensive hamster
2019-01-23 21:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a
good
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it? It's only two syllables in this household
(not counting the "sauce" part).
+1.
+ 1
"Wooster" sauce here. (UK)
Plus another, but my version would be something like "Wuster".
Same here. I did consider spelling it "Wuster", but I thought
people might pronounce that similarly to "muster".

PTD's "Woosta" is pretty close, too.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-23 17:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Thai or Worcestershire?
"Worcestershire sauce", but when I were a lad we* simply said
"Worcester sauce", which is much easier to say. Do others have the same
experience?
the bottle we have is labelled "Worcestershire Sauce".
Ah, but what do you /call/ it?
Yes. That was my point. I know what the label says.
Post by Paul Wolff
It's only two syllables in this household (not counting the "sauce" part).
--
athel
occam
2019-01-25 10:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
     The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
     led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
     types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
     population for the first time.
    
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
charles
2019-01-25 12:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have
also led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive
oil, new types of jewellery and glassware made available to the
local population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us? </end Python
sketch>
underfloor heating?

apart from that .....
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-26 08:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by occam
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have
also led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive
oil, new types of jewellery and glassware made available to the
local population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us? </end Python
sketch>
underfloor heating?
apart from that .....
... they had warm baths,

Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-26 13:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by charles
Post by occam
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have
also led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive
oil, new types of jewellery and glassware made available to the
local population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us? </end Python
sketch>
underfloor heating?
apart from that .....
... they had warm baths,
They were pretty good engineers as well. The cement they used at
Barbegal (near Arles) is as good as any cement made today, and better
than most. The aqueduct at Segovia is still in as-new condition (other
aqueducts are not as good, not because they weren't made as well, but
because it was easier for the chaps in the middle ages to steal bits).
--
athel
John Varela
2019-01-26 22:24:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 13:40:06 UTC, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by charles
Post by occam
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have
also led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive
oil, new types of jewellery and glassware made available to the
local population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us? </end Python
sketch>
underfloor heating?
apart from that .....
... they had warm baths,
They were pretty good engineers as well. The cement they used at
Barbegal (near Arles) is as good as any cement made today, and better
than most. The aqueduct at Segovia is still in as-new condition (other
aqueducts are not as good, not because they weren't made as well, but
because it was easier for the chaps in the middle ages to steal bits).
I recently read an article that said the Romans had a concrete that
not only would harden under salt water it would strengthen with age.
As I recall, these properties were owing to some special type of
pumice in the mix.
--
John Varela
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-27 02:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 13:40:06 UTC, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by charles
Post by occam
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have
also led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive
oil, new types of jewellery and glassware made available to the
local population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us? </end Python
sketch>
underfloor heating?
apart from that .....
... they had warm baths,
They were pretty good engineers as well. The cement they used at
Barbegal (near Arles) is as good as any cement made today, and better
than most. The aqueduct at Segovia is still in as-new condition (other
aqueducts are not as good, not because they weren't made as well, but
because it was easier for the chaps in the middle ages to steal bits).
I recently read an article that said the Romans had a concrete that
not only would harden under salt water it would strengthen with age.
As I recall, these properties were owing to some special type of
pumice in the mix.
One of the wonders of aue combined with Wikipedia. After Athel's post I
looked into Roman concrete and ended up at Tobermory on the Isle of Mull.
--
Sam Plusnet
Ken Blake
2019-01-25 15:50:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
     The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
     led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
     types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
     population for the first time.
    
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Say what you like but those Romans certainly knew how to put on a good
spread.
After you with the decayed fish sauce.
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
Speaking of dormice, I remember eating in a restaurant in Siena that
had dormice on its English menu. On the Italian menu, it said
"moscardini," which are small octopuses.

I couldn't figure out why "moscardini" was translated as "dormice"
until I got home, looked up "dormouse," and found that one genus of
dormouse is Muscardinus.
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-25 20:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
An early insight into a united Europe?

(for varying values of both united and Europe)
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-25 21:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice, ground
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
An early insight into a united Europe?
(for varying values of both united and Europe)
Werl; they gave DT the idea for a Wall.

Introduced dice games?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
John Varela
2019-01-25 21:51:47 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:14:30 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice,
ground
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
An early insight into a united Europe?
(for varying values of both united and Europe)
Werl; they gave DT the idea for a Wall.
Weren't the Chinese first?
Post by Rich Ulrich
Introduced dice games?
--
John Varela
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-26 03:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:14:30 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice,
ground
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
An early insight into a united Europe?
(for varying values of both united and Europe)
Werl; they gave DT the idea for a Wall.
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
--
Sam Plusnet
Mark Brader
2019-01-26 06:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "To great evils we submit; we resent
***@vex.net | little provocations." --William Hazlitt, 1822

My text in this article is in the public domain.
bill van
2019-01-26 06:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
I'd really rather that was "fewer" years ago.

bill
Mark Brader
2019-01-26 08:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
I'd really rather that was "fewer" years ago.
I'd really rather it wasn't.
--
Mark Brader | "I do not think about things that I do not think about."
Toronto | "Do you ever think about things that you *do* think about?"
***@vex.net | --Inherit the Wind, Lawrence & Lee
occam
2019-01-26 15:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years.  Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
I'd really rather that was "fewer" years ago.
I'd rather you had said "Wooshed", because Sam's answer was tongue-in-cheek.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-26 14:18:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian
lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how long
Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73 miles in about 6
years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The US-Mexico border is a
little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired immediately?)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Tak To
2019-01-26 22:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian
lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how long
Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73 miles in about 6
years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The US-Mexico border is a
little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a
failure, and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter Moylan
2019-01-27 00:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the
Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how
long Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73
miles in about 6 years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The
US-Mexico border is a little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired
immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a failure,
and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
Not at all. It's simply pointing out that the Chinese wall took more
than one (US) presidential term to build. Many generations, in fact.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Lewis
2019-01-27 04:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the
Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how
long Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73
miles in about 6 years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The
US-Mexico border is a little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired
immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a failure,
and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
Not at all. It's simply pointing out that the Chinese wall took more
than one (US) presidential term to build. Many generations, in fact.
The Chinese wall was pointless because when china had the means to defend
the wall, they were strong enough no one could breach the wall, and when
they didn't, they weren't.
--
Trying to engage you in any meaningful discussion is like trying to play
chess with a pigeon. You shit all over the board and then strut around
acting like you won.
Tak To
2019-01-27 19:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how
long Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73
miles in about 6 years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The
US-Mexico border is a little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired
immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a failure,
and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
Not at all. It's simply pointing out that the Chinese wall took more
than one (US) presidential term to build. Many generations, in fact.
The Chinese wall was pointless because when china had the means to defend
the wall, they were strong enough no one could breach the wall, and when
they didn't, they weren't.
Or one can say when the nomads were strong enough to breach the
wall, they did; and when they did not, they did not. In other
words, tautology.

The "Long Wall" was to thwart opportunistic raids. At times
it was pointless (when the Chinese was clearly superior in
strength, or when the nomads were), other times it was not.
There is no obvious conclusion of its effectiveness -- the
devil is in the detail.

IHMO, comparing Trump's Wall to the Chinese Wall is a rather
meaningless exercise. Again, the devil is in the detail.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Tony Cooper
2019-01-27 19:17:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
IHMO, comparing Trump's Wall to the Chinese Wall is a rather
meaningless exercise. Again, the devil is in the detail.
Nah...he's in the White House. Or, maybe not. With the shut-down over
he may be back out on the golf course.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
s***@gmail.com
2019-01-29 04:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Tak To
IHMO, comparing Trump's Wall to the Chinese Wall is a rather
meaningless exercise. Again, the devil is in the detail.
Nah...he's in the White House. Or, maybe not. With the shut-down over
he may be back out on the golf course.
Splorf!

/dps "is his /tail/ really forked?"
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-27 21:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how
long Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73
miles in about 6 years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The
US-Mexico border is a little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired
immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a failure,
and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
Not at all. It's simply pointing out that the Chinese wall took more
than one (US) presidential term to build. Many generations, in fact.
The Chinese wall was pointless because when china had the means to defend
the wall, they were strong enough no one could breach the wall, and when
they didn't, they weren't.
Or one can say when the nomads were strong enough to breach the
wall, they did; and when they did not, they did not. In other
words, tautology.
The "Long Wall" was to thwart opportunistic raids. At times
it was pointless (when the Chinese was clearly superior in
strength, or when the nomads were), other times it was not.
There is no obvious conclusion of its effectiveness -- the
devil is in the detail.
Fine, but it completely misses the point.
[now about the Romans, don't know enough about the Chinese]
The wall was not there to keep invading armies out,
for that is obviously impossible.
That is, obvious to all but the French under Maginot.

The point of having the Wall, or a Limes, is to buy time.
It is backed up by having a good communication system,
and big garrison towns some suitable distance behind it.

Those in turn can be backed up in case of need
by mobilising really big armies.
If all works as planned even a big invading army can be met,
and hopefully defeated.

Nothing changed btw, NATO calls this 'defence in depth',

Jan
--
Churchill: "Ou est la masse de manoeuvre?"
Gamelin: "Il n'y a aucune."
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-29 09:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how
long Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73
miles in about 6 years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The
US-Mexico border is a little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired
immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a failure,
and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
Not at all. It's simply pointing out that the Chinese wall took more
than one (US) presidential term to build. Many generations, in fact.
The Chinese wall was pointless because when china had the means to defend
the wall, they were strong enough no one could breach the wall, and when
they didn't, they weren't.
Or one can say when the nomads were strong enough to breach the
wall, they did; and when they did not, they did not. In other
words, tautology.
The "Long Wall" was to thwart opportunistic raids.
Just like the barrier to the parking area of where I live. It wouldn't
stop a professional thief more than 5 minutes, or even as long as that.
However, it's effective against amateurs, teenagers, etc.
Post by Tak To
At times
it was pointless (when the Chinese was clearly superior in
strength, or when the nomads were), other times it was not.
There is no obvious conclusion of its effectiveness -- the
devil is in the detail.
IHMO, comparing Trump's Wall to the Chinese Wall is a rather
meaningless exercise. Again, the devil is in the detail.
--
athel
Tak To
2019-01-29 18:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tak To
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how
long Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73
miles in about 6 years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The
US-Mexico border is a little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired
immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a failure,
and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
Not at all. It's simply pointing out that the Chinese wall took more
than one (US) presidential term to build. Many generations, in fact.
The Chinese wall was pointless because when china had the means to defend
the wall, they were strong enough no one could breach the wall, and when
they didn't, they weren't.
Or one can say when the nomads were strong enough to breach the
wall, they did; and when they did not, they did not. In other
words, tautology.
The "Long Wall" was to thwart opportunistic raids.
Just like the barrier to the parking area of where I live. It wouldn't
stop a professional thief more than 5 minutes, or even as long as that.
However, it's effective against amateurs, teenagers, etc.
The parking area is walled or fenced, with entrances and exits
that are manned 24/7, and a contingency of additional armed
patrolmen on quick notice?

The aptness of analogy is in the eye of the beholder.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tak To
At times
it was pointless (when the Chinese was clearly superior in
strength, or when the nomads were), other times it was not.
There is no obvious conclusion of its effectiveness -- the
devil is in the detail.
IHMO, comparing Trump's Wall to the Chinese Wall is a rather
meaningless exercise. Again, the devil is in the detail.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-27 21:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian
lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how long
Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73 miles in about 6
years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The US-Mexico border is a
little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a
failure, and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
It was a failure, if you take into account
that 5% of them now carry Ghengis Khan's Y-chromosome,
or rather, that of his clan,

Jan
Tak To
2019-01-28 06:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tak To
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian
lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how long
Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73 miles in about 6
years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The US-Mexico border is a
little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a
failure, and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
It was a failure, if you take into account
that 5% of them now carry Ghengis Khan's Y-chromosome,
or rather, that of his clan,
Who's "them", and where does "5%" come from?

Before anything else, perhaps you should read this
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12592608

and note the difference in genetic makeup between the Hans
living outside the Great Wall and those living inside. (Fig 2)

After that, perhaps you can explain what you think the Great
Wall was for, and how it did not fulfill that function.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-29 10:01:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tak To
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian
lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how long
Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73 miles in about 6
years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The US-Mexico border is a
little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a
failure, and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
It was a failure, if you take into account
that 5% of them now carry Ghengis Khan's Y-chromosome,
or rather, that of his clan,
Who's "them", and where does "5%" come from?
Before anything else, perhaps you should read this
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12592608
and note the difference in genetic makeup between the Hans
living outside the Great Wall and those living inside. (Fig 2)
After that, perhaps you can explain what you think the Great
Wall was for, and how it did not fulfill that function.
No weaseling please.
The Mongol invasion of China and the conquest of all China
that followed was a major defeat for the Chinese.
The Mongol occupation of China lasted more than a century.

The Moguls gladly used the nasty Chinese harem system
(the rich and the powerful get all of the pretty girls)
to get all those Ghengis Khan genes into the general population.

Of course all this was precisely what the builders of the Great Wall
wanted to avoid above all,

Jan
Tak To
2019-01-29 17:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tak To
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tak To
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian
lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how long
Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73 miles in about 6
years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The US-Mexico border is a
little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired immediately?)
It seems to me that you think the Chinese experience was a
failure, and that I don't think that is an obvious conclusion.
It was a failure, if you take into account
that 5% of them now carry Ghengis Khan's Y-chromosome,
or rather, that of his clan,
Who's "them", and where does "5%" come from?
Before anything else, perhaps you should read this
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12592608
and note the difference in genetic makeup between the Hans
living outside the Great Wall and those living inside. (Fig 2)
After that, perhaps you can explain what you think the Great
Wall was for, and how it did not fulfill that function.
No weaseling please.
Now look who's weaseling. I have cited legitimate studies.
What was the source of your numbers? At least tell us who
"them" referred to.
Post by J. J. Lodder
The Mongol invasion of China and the conquest of all China
that followed was a major defeat for the Chinese.
The Mongol occupation of China lasted more than a century.
89 years to be exact.
Post by J. J. Lodder
The Moguls gladly used the nasty Chinese harem system
(the rich and the powerful get all of the pretty girls)
There were no Moguls in China, only Mongols.
Post by J. J. Lodder
to get all those Ghengis Khan genes into the general population.
LOL. Kublai Khan was only the grandson of Genghis Khan. Just
how many Mongols in China at that time had the latter's genes?
And what you think happened to them 89 years later?
Post by J. J. Lodder
Of course all this was precisely what the builders of the Great Wall
wanted to avoid above all,
LOL again. Do you know that by the time the Mongols invaded
China, Northern China was already overrun by the Jurchens, and
not too long before that by the Khitans? The remains of the
Great Wall we see today were built *after* Mongols were kicked
out.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Mack A. Damia
2019-01-27 04:30:17 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 14:18:33 -0000 (UTC), "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 06:32:52 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian
lived less years ago than that.
And the Chinese experience is perhaps a better indicator of how long
Trump's wall will take to build. The Romans managed 73 miles in about 6
years, but the wall wasn't all that high. The US-Mexico border is a
little longer than 73 miles.
Has anyone told the Donald that? (if so were they fired immediately?)
Trump got his wall. Her name is "Nancy".
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-26 19:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there were
lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].

[1] The Romans, who probably had better accountants, limited themselves
to only two walls in the north of Britain.
--
Sam Plusnet
Tak To
2019-01-26 22:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there were
lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
And rebuilt.
Post by Sam Plusnet
[1] The Romans, who probably had better accountants, limited themselves
to only two walls in the north of Britain.
For a meaningful comparison, one has to imagine a wall built
by the Chinese, say, at the (key passes of the) Pamir Mountains.

Historical China is often referred to as an empire. However,
China is different in so many ways from the prototype empire in
the West -- Romans Empire.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter Moylan
2019-01-27 01:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the
Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years.
Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there were
lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
[1] The Romans, who probably had better accountants, limited
themselves to only two walls in the north of Britain.
And they seemed to have a realistic notion of how long the job would take.

Trump has a much tougher job. He has only two years until the project is
cancelled.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-27 21:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there were
lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.

Those Picts could have overrun all of Britannia
without Rome being seriously inconvenienced.

The point of having Britania, first as a vassal state,
later as a province was merely to protect Gallia from invasion.
Post by Sam Plusnet
[1] The Romans, who probably had better accountants, limited themselves
to only two walls in the north of Britain.
Indeed, cheaper to build a wall
that to send in the legions every now and then,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-27 21:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there were
lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long period of
time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a fresh
start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented on
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.

p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's Dyke
than Hadrian's Wall.
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-28 11:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years.
Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there
were lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long period
of time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a fresh
start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented on
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's Dyke
than Hadrian's Wall.
I'm not so sure "fondly" is correct; it might depend which side you're
on. But it's a bit less soggy of a walk.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-28 16:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years.
Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there
were lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long period
of time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a fresh
start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented on
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's Dyke
than Hadrian's Wall.
I'm not so sure "fondly" is correct; it might depend which side you're
on. But it's a bit less soggy of a walk.
You are American &ICM$5.
--
Jerry Friedman
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-28 19:38:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:40:47 GMT, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years.
Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there
were lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long period
of time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a fresh
start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented on
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's Dyke
than Hadrian's Wall.
I'm not so sure "fondly" is correct; it might depend which side you're
on. But it's a bit less soggy of a walk.
You are American &ICM$5.
Um no; but Mr Bryson has informed me longer, and even less pleasant walks
are available.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-28 22:25:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:40:47 GMT, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years.
Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there
were lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long period
of time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a fresh
start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented
on
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's
Dyke
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
than Hadrian's Wall.
I'm not so sure "fondly" is correct; it might depend which side you're
on. But it's a bit less soggy of a walk.
You are American &ICM$5.
Um no; but Mr Bryson has informed me longer, and even less pleasant walks
are available.
I was basing that comment off of, I mean on, the "of" in "less soggy
of a walk".
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-29 09:37:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:40:47 GMT, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great
Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years.
Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there
were lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long period
of time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a fresh
start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented
on
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's
Dyke
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
than Hadrian's Wall.
I'm not so sure "fondly" is correct; it might depend which side you're
on. But it's a bit less soggy of a walk.
You are American &ICM$5.
Um no; but Mr Bryson has informed me longer, and even less pleasant walks
are available.
I was basing that comment off of, I mean on, the "of" in "less soggy
of a walk".
My guess is that it was deliberate, as "of a" sounds a bit like "Offa".
--
athel
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-29 11:55:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 09:37:01 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:40:47 GMT, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know
there were lots of different walls built over a long period of
time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long
period of time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a
fresh start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I
commented
on
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's
Dyke
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
than Hadrian's Wall.
I'm not so sure "fondly" is correct; it might depend which side
you're on. But it's a bit less soggy of a walk.
You are American &ICM$5.
Um no; but Mr Bryson has informed me longer, and even less pleasant
walks are available.
I was basing that comment off of, I mean on, the "of" in "less soggy
of a walk".
My guess is that it was deliberate, as "of a" sounds a bit like "Offa".
Yes, I'll take credit for that pun.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-29 21:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 09:37:01 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:40:47 GMT, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the
Great Wall of China were built over a period of over 2,000
years. Hadrian lived less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know
there were lots of different walls built over a long period of
time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long
period of time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a
fresh start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented
on
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's
Dyke
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
than Hadrian's Wall.
I'm not so sure "fondly" is correct; it might depend which side
you're on. But it's a bit less soggy of a walk.
You are American &ICM$5.
Um no; but Mr Bryson has informed me longer, and even less pleasant
walks are available.
I was basing that comment off of, I mean on, the "of" in "less soggy
of a walk".
My guess is that it was deliberate, as "of a" sounds a bit like "Offa".
Yes, I'll take credit for that pun.
Ah, okay. (That would be evidence that you're British, since for most
or all Americans "of a" has a different vowel from "Offa".)
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2019-01-28 23:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's Dyke
than Hadrian's Wall.
Offa aside, I think of dykes more often and more fondly than of walls.
--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women
s***@gmail.com
2019-01-29 04:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
While the newer parts are best-known, different parts of the Great Wall
of China were built over a period of over 2,000 years. Hadrian lived
less years ago than that.
We still talk about _The_ great wall of China when we know there were
lots of different walls built over a long period of time[1].
That's what Britons like to think.
Hadrian's may be the greatest of walls to them,
but it was only a small part of the Limes,
which streched all the way from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.
You're rather missing the point.
There were a number of walls built in china, over a very long period of
time.
Sometimes existing walls were repaired and/or extended, often a fresh
start was made in a different place.
There's a whole palimpsest of walls there, which is why I commented on
the term "The Great Wall of China" which I think misleading.
p.s. People around here are more likely to think fondly of Offa's Dyke
than Hadrian's Wall.
And the tradition of carting off pieces of the wall that aren't well-guarded,
wherewith to build one's shelter,
is still in place there
(I think it has become harder to do with Hadrian's Kerb, innit?)

/dps
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-26 13:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Varela
On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:14:30 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice,
ground
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
An early insight into a united Europe?
(for varying values of both united and Europe)
Werl; they gave DT the idea for a Wall.
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, we're pretty sure that Hadrian's wall was down to the Romans.
What about the Great Wall of San Antonio? Who built that?
--
athel
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-26 14:17:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:14:30 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice,
ground
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
An early insight into a united Europe?
(for varying values of both united and Europe)
Werl; they gave DT the idea for a Wall.
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, definitely Roman tourists; the Chinese ones came much later.
Post by John Varela
Post by Rich Ulrich
Introduced dice games?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
s***@gmail.com
2019-01-29 04:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by John Varela
On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:14:30 UTC, "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Yes, but apart from wine, olive oil, glassware, rabbits, dormice,
ground
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
elder and fish sauce... what did the Romans ever do for us?
</end Python sketch>
An early insight into a united Europe?
(for varying values of both united and Europe)
Werl; they gave DT the idea for a Wall.
Weren't the Chinese first?
No, definitely Roman tourists; the Chinese ones came much later.
[huddles into a tight ball, whimpering]

/dps
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-23 08:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 18:06:49 GMT, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
[]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The arrival of the Romans in the north of England would have also
led to an influx of new consumer goods, with wine, olive oil, new
types of jewellery and glassware made available to the local
population for the first time.
He forgot rabbits and dormice.
and ground elder (bishop's weed)
Ah, so that's where I'm going wrong; I was just chewing the bark.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-23 13:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:15:58 +0000, Katy Jennison
[-]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Katy Jennison
Muddy and cold from that day to this, but I think the Romans might have
had pubs at decent intervals along it. The archaeology suggests so, anyway.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/archaeology/3463005/Hadrian
s-wall-boosted-economy-for-ancient-Britons-archaeologists-discover.html
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Far from being a hated symbol of military occupation, Hadrian's Wall
was the business opportunity of a lifetime for ancient Britons,
archaeologists have discovered.
Farmers, traders, craftsmen, labourers and prostitutes seized the
occasion to make money from the presence of hundreds of Roman
troops.
Instead of being wiped out by the Romans, the local population
appears to have flourished as part of a booming military economy.
Just like everybody else in the Roman empire.
There was an enourmous 'peace dividend',
and the overal cost of the army was modest.
(estimated at 10% of gross product)

The Britons who didn't fare well were the occupants
of those iron age hill forts.
The Romans just did not tolerate people living there.
The occupants had a choice between moving to the plains
or else getting massacred,

Jan
Loading...