Discussion:
Dictionary "marled"
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Dan Purgert
2021-04-27 00:48:07 UTC
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Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"

"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marled
Marled === marbled

Does that definition of "marled" make sense to you in that context?

(Reputed photos of the pipe show it was likely a metal such as brass.)
http://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.CAucM_7XLsi1JBYS8aqYjQHaE_?pid=ImgDet&rs=1
--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
Stefan Ram
2021-04-27 00:53:03 UTC
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Post by Dan Purgert
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
|“I really hate to say this.” He sighed. “But the only
|identifiable fragment of the pride of the United States
|Space Navy was . . . one star-mangled spanner.”
Stefan Ram
2021-04-27 01:14:01 UTC
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Post by Dan Purgert
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
...
Post by Dan Purgert
Does that definition of "marled" make sense to you in that context?
No. Either it's nonsense or some technical language.

|For low-pressure pipe damage the Navy typically uses what are
|referred to as soft patches. These are flexible systems made
|of layers of rubber sheet, rags, oakum, marline, wire and
|canvas. When the patch is placed over the hole, the fluid
|leaking from the piping system begins to soften and melt the
|patch into the hole, sealing the breech.

So, "to marl" here might mean (which is a wild guess!)
"patched with marline".
Stefan Ram
2021-04-27 01:32:46 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
So, "to marl" here might mean (which is a wild guess!)
"patched with marline".
They say that for every crazy idea you can find proof
in the Web. So:

|Marl
|(v. t.) To cover, as part of a rope, with marline, marking a
|pecular[sic!] hitch at each turn to prevent unwinding.

. "[sic!]" was added by me (S.R.).
Mark Brader
2021-04-27 10:31:17 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
So, "to marl" here might mean (which is a wild guess!)
"patched with marline".
|Marl
|(v. t.) To cover, as part of a rope, with marline, marking a
|pecular[sic!] hitch at each turn to prevent unwinding.
The OED Online does list that sense, but it says it's obsolete.
The entry was updated in 2000 and the most recent cite is dated
1883, so I'm inclined to believe them.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Big programs are a bug."
***@vex.net -- Geoff Collyer
bert
2021-04-27 11:20:27 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
So, "to marl" here might mean (which is a wild guess!)
"patched with marline".
|Marl
|(v. t.) To cover, as part of a rope, with marline, marking a
|pecular[sic!] hitch at each turn to prevent unwinding.
'marking' -> 'making' ??
Post by Mark Brader
The OED Online does list that sense, but it says it's obsolete.
The entry was updated in 2000 and the most recent cite is dated
1883, so I'm inclined to believe them.
The verb may be obsolete, but it's still found adjectivally
in "marling twine", even though that's no longer what
such twine is actually used for.
Ken Blake
2021-04-27 16:49:19 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
So, "to marl" here might mean (which is a wild guess!)
"patched with marline".
They say that for every crazy idea you can find proof
|Marl
|(v. t.) To cover, as part of a rope, with marline, marking a
|pecular[sic!] hitch at each turn to prevent unwinding.
. "[sic!]" was added by me (S.R.).
I didn't know the verb "marl" or the noun "marline,' but I was familiar
with the noun "marlinspike."

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlinspike
--
Ken
J. J. Lodder
2021-04-27 17:05:46 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
So, "to marl" here might mean (which is a wild guess!)
"patched with marline".
They say that for every crazy idea you can find proof
|Marl
|(v. t.) To cover, as part of a rope, with marline, marking a
|pecular[sic!] hitch at each turn to prevent unwinding.
. "[sic!]" was added by me (S.R.).
I didn't know the verb "marl" or the noun "marline,' but I was familiar
with the noun "marlinspike."
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlinspike
From Middle Dutch marlijn "small cord," from marlen "to fasten or secure
(a sail)," which is probably frequentative of Middle Dutch maren "to
tie, moor" (see moor (v.)). Influenced in Dutch by lijn "line" (n.).

Jan
Mark Brader
2021-04-27 02:50:03 UTC
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Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
--
Mark Brader | "[These] articles should be self-explanatory.
Toronto | If they *don't* explain themselves,
***@vex.net | you'll have to read them." -- Michael Wares
Ross Clark
2021-04-27 05:08:36 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
It's in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)

footnoted to

Lost Subs: Disaster at Sea. Tim Kelly, Executive Producer. DVD. National
Geographic, 2002.

But just about everything for "marled pipe" leads back to Thresher.
Since this celebrated bit of pipe was found about 20 years after the sub
was lost, how about "covered in marl"?*

*An earthy deposit, typically loose and unconsolidated and consisting
chiefly of clay mixed with calcium carbonate, formed in prehistoric seas
and lakes and long used to improve the texture of sandy or light soil.
Also: a calcareous deposit found at the bottom of present-day lakes and
rivers, composed of the remains of aquatic plants and animals. (OED)
Mark Brader
2021-04-27 10:27:33 UTC
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Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
It's in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
footnoted to
Lost Subs: Disaster at Sea. Tim Kelly, Executive Producer. DVD. National
Geographic, 2002.
Oh, it's from a TV production via Wikipedia? Then I suggest that
the word may actually have been "gnarled" -- the pipe was twisted
up when the sub came apart -- and whoever typed in that text didn't
hear it correctly.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Subway Emergency Instructions...
***@vex.net | * Do not pull the emergency cord. -- MTA, NYC

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Ross Clark
2021-04-27 11:39:12 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
It's in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
footnoted to
Lost Subs: Disaster at Sea. Tim Kelly, Executive Producer. DVD. National
Geographic, 2002.
Oh, it's from a TV production via Wikipedia? Then I suggest that
the word may actually have been "gnarled" -- the pipe was twisted
up when the sub came apart -- and whoever typed in that text didn't
hear it correctly.
I like that theory. Somebody with the time could look through it and
hear how it sounds...


musika
2021-04-27 12:22:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and
ran into "marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which
Thresher had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the
only recoverable piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
It's in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
footnoted to
Lost Subs: Disaster at Sea. Tim Kelly, Executive Producer. DVD.
National Geographic, 2002.
Oh, it's from a TV production via Wikipedia? Then I suggest that
the word may actually have been "gnarled" -- the pipe was twisted
up when the sub came apart -- and whoever typed in that text
didn't hear it correctly.
I like that theory. Somebody with the time could look through it and
hear how it sounds...
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
"... one piece of mangled pipe."

Start at 43'15"
--
Ray
UK
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-27 13:29:09 UTC
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Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and
ran into "marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which
Thresher had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the
only recoverable piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
It's in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
footnoted to
Lost Subs: Disaster at Sea. Tim Kelly, Executive Producer. DVD.
National Geographic, 2002.
Oh, it's from a TV production via Wikipedia?  Then I suggest that the
word may actually have been "gnarled" -- the pipe was twisted up when
the sub came apart -- and whoever typed in that text
didn't hear it correctly.
I like that theory. Somebody with the time could look through it and
 hear how it sounds...
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the latter!
And the consonants aren't much more so!
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-27 13:38:51 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by musika
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and
ran into "marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which
Thresher had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the
only recoverable piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
It's in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
footnoted to
Lost Subs: Disaster at Sea. Tim Kelly, Executive Producer. DVD.
National Geographic, 2002.
Oh, it's from a TV production via Wikipedia?  Then I suggest that
the word may actually have been "gnarled" -- the pipe was twisted up
when the sub came apart -- and whoever typed in that text
didn't hear it correctly.
I like that theory. Somebody with the time could look through it and
 hear how it sounds...
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the latter!
And the consonants aren't much more so!
Darn it. At some point I'll start understanding the right way to write
Kirshenbaum.

The former is, of course, |A| and both should likely be in pipes rather
than brackets. More Even more specifically, THAT man's dialect is
*highly* rhotic. So you're not even looking at | mAld |, but rather |
mA<r>-@ld | . How you get there from the "mangled" that he enunciates
clearly, i have no clue. I'd go in and fix the wiki, but the odds that
my edit wouldn't be considered "original research" are too low.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
CDB
2021-04-27 15:03:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by musika
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions
and ran into "marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at
which Thresher had sunk caused implosion and total
destruction; the only recoverable piece was a foot of
*marled* pipe."
Where did you run into that passage?
It's in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
footnoted to
Lost Subs: Disaster at Sea. Tim Kelly, Executive Producer.
DVD. National Geographic, 2002.
Oh, it's from a TV production via Wikipedia? Then I suggest
that the word may actually have been "gnarled" -- the pipe
was twisted up when the sub came apart -- and whoever typed
in that text didn't hear it correctly.
I like that theory. Somebody with the time could look through
it and hear how it sounds...
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
Perhaps a typo, then, or a spellchecker error? If the writer had typed
"manled", the bot might have assumed "marled", if it had a big enough
vocabulary.
Post by Chrysi Cat
Darn it. At some point I'll start understanding the right way to
write Kirshenbaum.
['dArnIt &t sVm pojnt ajl stArt ,***@r'st&ndiN D@ rajt wEj t@ rajt
'***@rS@n,bAm] is how I would write it; others might disagree, but would
probably get what I meant.
Post by Chrysi Cat
The former is, of course, |A| and both should likely be in pipes
rather than brackets. More Even more specifically, THAT man's dialect
is *highly* rhotic. So you're not even looking at | mAld |, but
enunciates clearly, i have no clue. I'd go in and fix the wiki, but
the odds that my edit wouldn't be considered "original research" are
too low.
Peter Moylan
2021-04-27 23:43:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Ken Blake
2021-04-28 16:18:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
--
Ken
Tony Cooper
2021-04-28 16:26:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Good thing this is a text group. I think I say it that way, too. If
so, that would make the pronunciation Midwest, not just Wisconsin.

Saying it aloud, it's more like "meer-er", but the two parts jammed
together. Certainly more like one syllable than two.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
HVS
2021-04-28 16:32:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"?
The a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for
the latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for
"mowers" looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two
words would be similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was
from Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable,
something like MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what
he was talking about.
My father pronounced it with a "u" sound -- like "purer". While it
still had two syllables, it was well on its way to just one.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Quinn C
2021-04-28 16:57:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
--
Oh Sam! You're so funny and insensitive! -- Cat
Ken Blake
2021-04-28 17:27:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.

To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
--
Ken
Quinn C
2021-04-28 23:08:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
Intuitive statistics is never reliable in matters such as this one, and
my own may well be skewed by the more noticeable pronunciation taking up
more attention. But it's certainly nothing to report as a surprise -
I've heard it from many different speakers, and sometimes two different
speakers in the same audio piece.

It's quite normal that the second syllable would collapse into one
r-colored vowel (schwar) in AmE, rather than a distinct vowel plus an r,
which makes it difficult to recognize a syllable boundary there. Maybe
more so to someone like me who learned BrE first.

If I turn to <https://forvo.com/word/mirror/#en>

elrmess and yondez sound perfectly one-syllable to me; MinaAbril,
NipponJapan and ascrodin are close.

Kae4 illustrates well what I said in the last paragraph - there's a
clear second syllable marked by intonation, but the articulation hardly
moves from the final r of the first.

That makes half of the AmE examples, and I expect many of the recordings
made for this purpose to be over-enunciated compared to natural speech.
I'm not sure I've heard anyone say it as distinctly as Jeane (the most
upvoted version); I suspect this represents an ideal, is how a lot of
people think you should say it, but they don't actually do.

It didn't take long at all to pick these additional examples out of a
search for "mirror" on Youtube (ignoring songs):




--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Ken Blake
2021-04-28 23:23:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
Intuitive statistics is never reliable in matters such as this one, and
I'll repeat that I didn't understand what he meant when he said "meer."

It's not a matter of statistics. His pronunciation was clearly one I had
never heard before.
Post by Quinn C
my own may well be skewed by the more noticeable pronunciation taking up
more attention. But it's certainly nothing to report as a surprise -
I've heard it from many different speakers, and sometimes two different
speakers in the same audio piece.
If you say you have I'll believe you. But I never have.
--
Ken
Lewis
2021-04-29 02:42:02 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
Intuitive statistics is never reliable in matters such as this one, and
I'll repeat that I didn't understand what he meant when he said "meer."
It's not a matter of statistics. His pronunciation was clearly one I had
never heard before.
Post by Quinn C
my own may well be skewed by the more noticeable pronunciation taking up
more attention. But it's certainly nothing to report as a surprise -
I've heard it from many different speakers, and sometimes two different
speakers in the same audio piece.
If you say you have I'll believe you. But I never have.
I find the idea of it being common very suspicious and think it is more
likely a problem with Quinn's listening than an actual pronunciation.
--
I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.
Quinn C
2021-04-29 16:47:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
Intuitive statistics is never reliable in matters such as this one, and
I'll repeat that I didn't understand what he meant when he said "meer."
It's not a matter of statistics. His pronunciation was clearly one I had
never heard before.
Post by Quinn C
my own may well be skewed by the more noticeable pronunciation taking up
more attention. But it's certainly nothing to report as a surprise -
I've heard it from many different speakers, and sometimes two different
speakers in the same audio piece.
If you say you have I'll believe you. But I never have.
I find the idea of it being common very suspicious and think it is more
likely a problem with Quinn's listening than an actual pronunciation.
I'm pretty sure we've heard remarks about "one-syllable 'mirror'" being
weird from non-NAm native speakers before. I was just surprised that an
American would struggle with it. And so was Tony.

Anyway, I've documented it in detail, so everyone can judge for
themself.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Janet
2021-04-29 10:33:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@invalidemail.com
says...
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)


Janet
Peter Moylan
2021-04-29 09:51:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws"
and "shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
I've seen the label "chester draws" in a furniture shop. I would have
thought that people who specialised in selling furniture would know better.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Adam Funk
2021-04-29 11:49:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws"
and "shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
I've seen the label "chester draws" in a furniture shop. I would have
I've seen that (not sure about the one-word version) but not "shayslon".
Post by Peter Moylan
thought that people who specialised in selling furniture would know better.
Like greengrocers, they probably feel their customers would be
disappointed if they didn't throw in a few mistakes. Anyway, what if
the draws were actually made in Chester?
--
There’s never enough time to do all the nothing you want.
---Calvin
Ken Blake
2021-04-29 15:55:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws"
and "shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
I've seen the label "chester draws" in a furniture shop. I would have
thought that people who specialised in selling furniture would know better.
Oh, that Chester. He was a great draughtsman.
--
Ken
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-04-30 10:40:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 08:55:35 -0700
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws"
and "shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
I've seen the label "chester draws" in a furniture shop. I would have
thought that people who specialised in selling furniture would know better.
Oh, that Chester. He was a great draughtsman.
Man, Chester is draughty.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 14:19:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 16:04:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Graham
2021-04-29 17:43:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 18:36:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graham
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing

A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U

and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them:

V W W Y Zed

The adults clapped
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
musika
2021-04-29 19:45:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Graham
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
Were they dyslewic?
--
Ray
UK
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 07:48:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Graham
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
Were they dyslewic?
That's what comes of making too many "corrections" before posting.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Mark Brader
2021-04-29 20:18:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
--
Mark Brader | "Hitler made an elementary error when he chose not to
Toronto | dress his young National Socialists in lime-green catsuits
***@vex.net | laced with twinkling fairy lights." --Anthony Lane
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 21:10:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.

Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
--
Jerry Friedman
/&b k@'dEF gi 'jEklmn'Ap ***@r'stu vwIk'***@z/
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-29 21:14:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Do you know Mozart's Variations on it? (Though he called it "Ah, vous
dirai-je maman").
musika
2021-04-29 21:33:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt as
a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version in
recent years.
--
Ray
UK
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 21:44:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt as
a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version in
recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.

I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version. Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.

Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
--
Jerry Friedman
musika
2021-04-29 21:54:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt
as a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version
in recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.
I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version.  Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
And, of course, the original "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman".
--
Ray
UK
Quinn C
2021-04-30 01:31:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
And, of course, the original "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman".
German children know it as a Christmas song

Morgen kommt der Weihnachtsmann ...

It was weird at first hearing children intone it in decidedly unfestive
seasons.
--
- It's the title search for the Rachel property.
Guess who owns it?
- Tell me it's not that bastard Donald Trump.
-- Gilmore Girls, S02E08 (2001)
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 01:07:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found
out--by being told, I think--that the American alphabet song,
"Twinkle, Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same
tune.
ALMOST the same tune. For me, the word "any" hits a higher note in the
first line of "Baa Baa Black Sheep".
Post by musika
And, of course, the original "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman".
By coincidence I was humming a couple of Mozart's variations yesterday.
I don't know why, because it's been ages since I last heard them.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 03:43:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found
out--by being told, I think--that the American alphabet song,
"Twinkle, Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same
tune.
ALMOST the same tune. For me, the word "any" hits a higher note in the
first line of "Baa Baa Black Sheep".
Wikipedia has exactly the same tune as "Twinkle, Twinkle", but I had no
trouble finding a version like yours. It also has a little more variety at
"the little boy who lives in the lane".

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/20618110770744595/

(Yes, that horrible thing.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 07:50:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found
out--by being told, I think--that the American alphabet song,
"Twinkle, Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same
tune.
ALMOST the same tune. For me, the word "any" hits a higher note in the
first line of "Baa Baa Black Sheep".
Do they sing "Baa Baa African-American Sheep" nowadays?
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
And, of course, the original "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman".
By coincidence I was humming a couple of Mozart's variations yesterday.
I don't know why, because it's been ages since I last heard them.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Graham
2021-04-30 13:29:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found
out--by being told, I think--that the American alphabet song,
"Twinkle, Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same
tune.
ALMOST the same tune. For me, the word "any" hits a higher note in the
first line of "Baa Baa Black Sheep".
Do they sing "Baa Baa African-American Sheep" nowadays?
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
And, of course, the original "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman".
By coincidence I was humming a couple of Mozart's variations yesterday.
I don't know why, because it's been ages since I last heard them.
I think it was Gloucester CC who announced that they would stop
referring to "accident black spots" and use the term "Hot spots".
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-30 19:02:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
By coincidence I was humming a couple of Mozart's variations yesterday.
I don't know why, because it's been ages since I last heard them.
I have found myself whistling "Voi Che Sapete" over the last two or
three weeks. Even my wife, who says she can't abide Mozart, has taken
to humming a few snatches.

This is the guilty party in my STS.


--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Graham
2021-04-30 19:53:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
By coincidence I was humming a couple of Mozart's variations yesterday.
I don't know why, because it's been ages since I last heard them.
I have found myself whistling "Voi Che Sapete" over the last two or
three weeks.  Even my wife, who says she can't abide Mozart, has taken
to humming a few snatches.
This is the guilty party in my STS.
http://youtu.be/mOvYfZol82k
I would have thought that this would make a better ear worm:

Graham
2021-04-29 21:58:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt
as a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version
in recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.
I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version.  Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.
Zed is only confusing for those in the USA.
Ken Blake
2021-04-30 00:56:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt as
a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version in
recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.
I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version. Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
Sur le pont d'Avignon
try Brioschi antiacid.
--
Ken
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 01:04:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Sur le pont d'Avignon
try Brioschi antiacid.
Hark, the herald angels sing
Beecham's pills are just the thing.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 03:37:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Sur le pont d'Avignon
try Brioschi antiacid.
Hark, the herald angels sing
Beecham's pills are just the thing.
Hark, the homeward students sing,
"Glory to vacationing!"

There's more, but I don't know it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 09:39:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Sur le pont d'Avignon
try Brioschi antiacid.
Hark, the herald angels sing
Beecham's pills are just the thing.
Hark, the homeward students sing,
"Glory to vacationing!"
There's more, but I don't know it.
Walt Kelly wrote some good Christmas carols too.

<https://www.straightdope.com/21341623/what-are-the-lyrics-to-walt-kelly-s-classic-carol-deck-us-all-with-boston-charlie>

<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2009/12/25/818934/->
--
The internet is quite simply a glorious place. Where else can you find
bootlegged music and films, questionable women, deep seated xenophobia
and amusing cats all together in the same place? ---Tom Belshaw
Ken Blake
2021-04-30 14:45:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Sur le pont d'Avignon
try Brioschi antiacid.
Hark, the herald angels sing
Beecham's pills are just the thing.
Hark, the homeward students sing,
"Glory to vacationing!"
There's more, but I don't know it.
Walt Kelly wrote some good Christmas carols too.
<https://www.straightdope.com/21341623/what-are-the-lyrics-to-walt-kelly-s-classic-carol-deck-us-all-with-boston-charlie>
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2009/12/25/818934/->
MY favorite Christmas Carol is

Christmas time is here by golly
Disapproval would be folly...
--
Ken
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 09:36:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt as
a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version in
recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.
I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version. Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
You can also sing many of Emily Dickinson's poems to the tune of "The
Yellow Rose of Texas" (just the refrain, I think) *and*
"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious".
--
Our function calls do not have parameters ---they have
arguments ---and they always win them.
---Klingon Programmer's Guide
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 11:48:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt as
a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version in
recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.
I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version. Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
You can also sing many of Emily Dickinson's poems to the tune of "The
Yellow Rose of Texas" (just the refrain, I think) *and*
"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious".
The yellow rose of Texas
And the Man from Laramie
Invited Davy Crockett
To have a cup of tea.

The tea was so delicious
They had another cup
And they left poor Davy Crockett
to do the washing up.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 12:18:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt as
a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version in
recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.
I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version. Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
You can also sing many of Emily Dickinson's poems to the tune of "The
Yellow Rose of Texas" (just the refrain, I think) *and*
"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious".
The yellow rose of Texas
And the Man from Laramie
Invited Davy Crockett
To have a cup of tea.
The tea was so delicious
They had another cup
And they left poor Davy Crockett
to do the washing up.
I didn't know Emily Dickinson had been interested in the Alamo.
--
They do (play, that is), and nobody gets killed, but Metallic K.O. is
the only rock album I know where you can actually hear hurled beer
bottles breaking against guitar strings. ---Lester Bangs
Lewis
2021-04-30 18:02:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
I'd say "H I J K LMNOP" is one line.
Is there a version where Q and U are the ends of lines for the rhyme?
Yes, the proper English version which I, and presumably Athel. learnt as
a child. It has been overtaken by the "Twinkle , twinkle" version in
recent years.
I'm glad to learn we're sharing our culture with other countries.
I can hardly imagine the American children in Athel's story knew your
version. Maybe they had just been taught it in Canada but hadn't
mastered the last line, maybe because of that confusing zed.
Musical people might be surprised at how late in life I found out--by
being told, I think--that the American alphabet song, "Twinkle,
Twinkle", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" all had the same tune.
You can also sing many of Emily Dickinson's poems to the tune of "The
Yellow Rose of Texas" (just the refrain, I think) *and*
"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious".
You can sing nearly all Dickinson's poems to any ballad. I prefer The
Streets of Laredo, but that assumes I can hold a tune which I cannot.
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards for they are subtle and quick
to anger.
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 01:00:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
whereupon the Canadian children near me finished it for them...
I never sang that song when I was in school, but even I know that
"L M N O P" is one line.
My eldest son was influenced by TV and the Sesame Street alphabet song.
But he used to sing that part as

H I J K lalalala P
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Lewis
2021-04-29 22:50:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Graham
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
The only song I know for ABCs (Other than the two Muppets ones) goes
more like:

A B C D E F G
H I J K Eleminopee
Q R S
T U V
W X Y and Zee

then something about having learned one's ABCs.

The important bit is the Elemenopee.
--
Ah we're lonely, we're romantic / and the cider's laced with acid /
and the Holy Spirit's crying, Where's the beef? / And the moon is
swimming naked / and the summer night is fragrant / with a mighty
expectation of relief
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 23:11:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Graham
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
The only song I know for ABCs (Other than the two Muppets ones) goes
A B C D E F G
H I J K Eleminopee
Q R S
T U V
W X Y and Zee
Heretic! Traitor! It's W and X Y Z!!!!!1!!!!
Post by Lewis
then something about having learned one's ABCs.
The important bit is the Elemenopee.
Can't argue with that.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-30 00:59:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Graham
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
The only song I know for ABCs (Other than the two Muppets ones) goes
A B C D E F G
H I J K Eleminopee
Q R S
T U V
W X Y and Zee
Heretic! Traitor! It's W and X Y Z!!!!!1!!!!
I spelled it out to make it clear it is not "Zed"
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
then something about having learned one's ABCs.
The important bit is the Elemenopee.
Can't argue with that.
--
(Amazingly Beautiful Creatures Dancing Excites the Forest Glade, in my
Heart how I do Jump like the Kudo Listen to the Music so Nice the
Organ Plays. Quietly Rests the Sleepy Tiger Under the Vine tree
at the Water's side and X marks the spot 'neath the Yellow moon
where the Zulu king and I did hide.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 01:24:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...
Post by Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
The only song I know for ABCs (Other than the two Muppets ones) goes
A B C D E F G
H I J K Eleminopee
Q R S
T U V
W X Y and Zee
Heretic! Traitor! It's W and X Y Z!!!!!1!!!!
I spelled it out to make it clear it is not "Zed"
The "and" is in the wrong place. (I ran out of exclamation points.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-30 06:01:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
The only song I know for ABCs (Other than the two Muppets ones) goes
A B C D E F G
H I J K Eleminopee
Q R S
T U V
W X Y and Zee
Heretic! Traitor! It's W and X Y Z!!!!!1!!!!
I spelled it out to make it clear it is not "Zed"
The "and" is in the wrong place. (I ran out of exclamation points.)
I'm pretty sure it's "y and z" and this lyrics site agrees, but I can't
say it is a song I sang much at all (I cannot remember a time I din;t
know my letters and can barely remember not being able to read)

<https://www.metrolyrics.com/alphabet-song-lyrics-children.html>

It is the sort of song that lends itself to having multiple versions,
for example, the "next time won't you sing with me" is familiar now that
I see it, but is not the lyric that I was thinking of but can't quite
recall.

Next, we could discuss the many versions of "jingle bells, batman
smells"
--
YOU SAY THAT TO ME? YOU STAND THERE IN YOUR PRETTY DRESS AND SAY THAT
TO ME? YOU? YOU PRATTLE ON ABOUT CHANGING THE WORLD? COULD YOU FIND THE
COURAGE TO ACCEPT IT? TO KNOW WHAT MUST BE DONE AND DO IT, WHATEVER THE
COST? IS THERE ONE HUMAN BEING ANYWHERE WHO KNOWS WHAT DUTY MEANS?
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 13:54:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
...
Post by Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
The only song I know for ABCs (Other than the two Muppets ones) goes
A B C D E F G
H I J K Eleminopee
Q R S
T U V
W X Y and Zee
Heretic! Traitor! It's W and X Y Z!!!!!1!!!!
I spelled it out to make it clear it is not "Zed"
The "and" is in the wrong place. (I ran out of exclamation points.)
I'm pretty sure it's "y and z" and this lyrics site agrees, but I can't
say it is a song I sang much at all (I cannot remember a time I din;t
know my letters and can barely remember not being able to read)
<https://www.metrolyrics.com/alphabet-song-lyrics-children.html>
It is the sort of song that lends itself to having multiple versions,
I do see it on the Web the way I remember it.
Post by Lewis
for example, the "next time won't you sing with me" is familiar now that
I see it, but is not the lyric that I was thinking of but can't quite
recall.
How about "Tell me what you think of me"?
Post by Lewis
Next, we could discuss the many versions of "jingle bells, batman
smells"
Not to mention that Rudolph ran away.
--
Jerry Friedman
Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay,
There is no school today.
Tony Cooper
2021-04-30 02:45:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 22:50:13 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Graham
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
I've heard it here, North of the 49th. Other monstrous imports
increasingly used include "off of" and "zee"!
The first time was in Canada (1961) I was taken for the weekend to an
island in Georgian Bay. A group of American children on a neighbouring
island were singing
A B C D E F G
H I J K L M
N O P Q
R S T U
and stopped before the last line (these were very young children),
V W W Y Zed
The adults clapped
The only song I know for ABCs (Other than the two Muppets ones) goes
A B C D E F G
H I J K Eleminopee
Q R S
T U V
W X Y and Zee
then something about having learned one's ABCs.
The important bit is the Elemenopee.
The last line, following W X Y and Zee, is "And now I know my ABCs."
in my usage.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Tony Cooper
2021-04-29 18:40:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.

Loading Image...
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 05:26:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.
https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/f0d347b792b1c0a6d6f9d96f31de7b6daf47c85b/Perla-Outdoor-Wood-Chaise-Lounge-%28Set-of-4%29-by-Christopher-Knight-Home.jpg?imwidth=400&impolicy=medium
But how can you tell which ones are chaise lounges and which ones are
chaises longues?

(They all look long to me.)
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 09:40:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.
https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/f0d347b792b1c0a6d6f9d96f31de7b6daf47c85b/Perla-Outdoor-Wood-Chaise-Lounge-%28Set-of-4%29-by-Christopher-Knight-Home.jpg?imwidth=400&impolicy=medium
But how can you tell which ones are chaise lounges and which ones are
chaises longues?
(They all look long to me.)
It's tricky --- how can you stretch out without lounging at the same
time?
--
Apparently I lack some particular perversion which today's
employer is seeking. ---Ignatius J Reilly
Ken Blake
2021-04-30 14:51:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.
https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/f0d347b792b1c0a6d6f9d96f31de7b6daf47c85b/Perla-Outdoor-Wood-Chaise-Lounge-%28Set-of-4%29-by-Christopher-Knight-Home.jpg?imwidth=400&impolicy=medium
But how can you tell which ones are chaise lounges and which ones are
chaises longues?
(They all look long to me.)
It's tricky --- how can you stretch out without lounging at the same
time?
On a rack.
--
Ken
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 15:11:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.
https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/f0d347b792b1c0a6d6f9d96f31de7b6daf47c85b/Perla-Outdoor-Wood-Chaise-Lounge-%28Set-of-4%29-by-Christopher-Knight-Home.jpg?imwidth=400&impolicy=medium
But how can you tell which ones are chaise lounges and which ones are
chaises longues?
(They all look long to me.)
It's tricky --- how can you stretch out without lounging at the same
time?
On a rack.
True, but that looks completely different from a chaise lounge & a
chaise longue.
--
It takes a thousand men to invent a telegraph, or a steam engine, or a
phonograph, or a telephone or any other important thing --- and the
last man gets the credit and we forget the others. ---Mark Twain
Graham
2021-04-30 13:31:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.
https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/f0d347b792b1c0a6d6f9d96f31de7b6daf47c85b/Perla-Outdoor-Wood-Chaise-Lounge-%28Set-of-4%29-by-Christopher-Knight-Home.jpg?imwidth=400&impolicy=medium
But how can you tell which ones are chaise lounges and which ones are
chaises longues?
(They all look long to me.)
A neighbour showed me their chaise lounge and also their "teater-teat"!
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 13:54:29 UTC
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Post by Graham
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.
https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/f0d347b792b1c0a6d6f9d96f31de7b6daf47c85b/Perla-Outdoor-Wood-Chaise-Lounge-%28Set-of-4%29-by-Christopher-Knight-Home.jpg?imwidth=400&impolicy=medium
But how can you tell which ones are chaise lounges and which ones are
chaises longues?
(They all look long to me.)
A neighbour showed me their chaise lounge and also their "teater-teat"!
Was that in the cowshed?
--
Now everybody's got advice they just keep on giving
Doesn't mean too much to me
Lots of people have to make believe they're living
Can't decide who they should be ---Boston
Graham
2021-04-30 14:38:02 UTC
Reply
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Graham
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Where I live, if you have a strong enough arm, you could throw a rock
and expect it to land on a chaise lounge, but it would be on someone's
pool deck.
https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/f0d347b792b1c0a6d6f9d96f31de7b6daf47c85b/Perla-Outdoor-Wood-Chaise-Lounge-%28Set-of-4%29-by-Christopher-Knight-Home.jpg?imwidth=400&impolicy=medium
But how can you tell which ones are chaise lounges and which ones are
chaises longues?
(They all look long to me.)
A neighbour showed me their chaise lounge and also their "teater-teat"!
Was that in the cowshed?
No, not the byre:-)
Strange pronunciation of "tête à tête" given that Canada is officially
bilingual.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 15:21:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...
Post by Graham
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Graham
A neighbour showed me their chaise lounge and also their "teater-teat"!
Was that in the cowshed?
No, not the byre:-)
Strange pronunciation of "tête à tête" given that Canada is officially
bilingual.
I thought it was going to be a teeter-totter.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-29 22:47:00 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Makes perfect sense, the word lounge is common in AmE and the word
"longue" is entirely unknown outside one specific noun that is mostly
seen as a word used by pretentious people, or the French (same thing).

I've certainly heard it pronounces "chase lounge" far more than a "chaiz
Lonj"
--
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.
--Hogfather
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 09:40:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Makes perfect sense, the word lounge is common in AmE and the word
"longue" is entirely unknown outside one specific noun that is mostly
seen as a word used by pretentious people, or the French (same thing).
I've certainly heard it pronounces "chase lounge" far more than a "chaiz
Lonj"
"Pretenious, moi?" (Is that from Miss Piggy?)
--
XML combines the efficiency of text files with the readability of
binary files.
CDB
2021-04-30 12:13:40 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
[mere mirror]
Post by Janet
Post by Ken Blake
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from.
As Tony suggests, it may be a common midwestern
pronunciation, but that's not the only kind of AmE there is.
I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and Arizona, and I've
been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50 states. I
can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss
pronounce it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as
"chesterdraws" and "shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise
longue)
"Chaise lounge" is common in the U.S.
Alas.
Makes perfect sense, the word lounge is common in AmE and the word
"longue" is entirely unknown outside one specific noun that is
mostly seen as a word used by pretentious people, or the French (same
thing).
I've certainly heard it pronounces "chase lounge" far more than a
"chaiz Lonj"
"Chaiz longg". The pretentious version ends in a "hard 'g'".
Ken Blake
2021-04-29 15:54:29 UTC
Reply
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Post by Janet
says...
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
Not to me. How to pronounce it depends on where you're from. As Tony
suggests, it may be a common midwestern pronunciation, but that's not
the only kind of AmE there is. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, and
Arizona, and I've been, for at least a a short time, in 40 of the 50
states. I can't remember ever hearing anyone else but my boss pronounce
it that way.
To me it's clearly two syllables: MIRR-er
In UK I've seen second-hand furniture advertised as "chesterdraws" and
"shayslon" (chest of drawers and chaise longue)
Here in the USA, it's more often chaise lounge, even when not second-hand.
--
Ken
Lewis
2021-04-29 02:40:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Yikes. I think you're right, but what phonemes does one's native
language need to be missing to mis-hear "marled" for "mangled"? The
a-vowel isn't even similar--<a> for the former, vs <&> for the
latter! And the consonants aren't much more so!
I've just (re)read a Steinbeck story where an itinerant tinker
advertises that he can fix "lawn mores". That spelling for "mowers"
looks quirky, but I can see that in some accents the two words would be
similar.
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
Your words describe what I'd call the usual, or at least most common,
AmE pronunciation.
What a ridiculous statement, and entirely wrong. I've heard that
pronunciation, but it is rare. In 45 years I've heard it maybe a handful
of times, and most of those probably on TV.
--
I don't talk about problems, I disintegrate them.
Mark Brader
2021-04-28 18:06:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconsin. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
I remember one of my schoolteachers referring to that pronunciation
and commenting that when someone said it he first thought they'd had
been looking in a "mere" (lake). I think this may have been just
after I moved to Southern Ontario, and I have the impression that
I've heard (and disliked) that pronunciation here.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Remember the Golgafrinchans"
***@vex.net -- Pete Granger

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Stefan Ram
2021-04-28 18:13:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me that many years ago, I worked for someone who was from
Wisconson. He pronounced "mirror" as a single syllable, something like
MEER. The first time I heard it, I had no idea what he was talking about.
I'd write "mirror" as

|ˈmɪ.ɹɚ

, where [ɹ] and [ɚ] have the same sound quality,
but the first one is non-syllabic. So, effectively
this just means a long (syllabic) ɚ:

|ˈmɪ.ɚː

. But in slow, careful speech, a schwa is insered:

|ˈmɪ.ɹəɹ

.
Dan Purgert
2021-04-27 19:01:36 UTC
Reply
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Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg

Someone perhaps maybe transcribed "mangled" to "marled" by accident
and then it just got carried away in the Internet currents!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
https://ww.democraticunderground.org/100215321397
https://alanscandrett.github.io/profile/portfolio/subs/pages/subs.html
https://www.fireballnotes.com/tag/mercury-7-astronauts/
https://www.fireballnotes.com/tag/cyber-attacks/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Submarine-USS-THRESHER-SSN-593-Naval-Cover-1966-LOST-Cachet-/233931562695?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-27 19:09:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
Someone perhaps maybe transcribed "mangled" to "marled" by accident
and then it just got carried away in the Internet currents!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
https://ww.democraticunderground.org/100215321397
https://alanscandrett.github.io/profile/portfolio/subs/pages/subs.html
https://www.fireballnotes.com/tag/mercury-7-astronauts/
https://www.fireballnotes.com/tag/cyber-attacks/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Submarine-USS-THRESHER-SSN-593-Naval-Cover-1966-LOST-Cachet-/233931562695?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article. I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
--
Jerry Friedman
musika
2021-04-27 19:49:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
{snip list}
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article. I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
That was me.
--
Ray
UK
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-27 20:17:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
{snip list}
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article. I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
That was me.
Aha. So you use the name 92.234.105.73 when you want to hide? I thought
it might be someone from this group.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
musika
2021-04-27 20:33:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
{snip list}
Post by Dan Purgert
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article.  I imagine
the other
pages will be harder to correct.
That was me.
Aha. So you use the name 92.234.105.73 when you want to hide? I thought
it might be someone from this group.
No. If you don't sign-up to wiki it logs your ip address when you edit
something. When I have edited before (probably about 6 times) my ip
address was different, as it is dynamic rather than static.
P.S. I am from this group.
--
Ray
UK
Lewis
2021-04-27 20:33:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
{snip list}
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article. I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
That was me.
Aha. So you use the name 92.234.105.73 when you want to hide? I thought
it might be someone from this group.
% dig -x 92.234.105.73
73.105.234.92.in-addr.arpa. 604800 IN PTR
cpc121382-wals12-2-0-cust328.16-1.cable.virginm.net.

that's a 'pool' IP for virgin mobile.
--
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a
full house and four people died.
musika
2021-04-27 20:37:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
{snip list}
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article. I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
That was me.
Aha. So you use the name 92.234.105.73 when you want to hide? I thought
it might be someone from this group.
% dig -x 92.234.105.73
73.105.234.92.in-addr.arpa. 604800 IN PTR
cpc121382-wals12-2-0-cust328.16-1.cable.virginm.net.
that's a 'pool' IP for virgin mobile.
No. Virgin Media.
--
Ray
UK
Lewis
2021-04-27 20:42:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
{snip list}
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article. I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
That was me.
Aha. So you use the name 92.234.105.73 when you want to hide? I thought
it might be someone from this group.
% dig -x 92.234.105.73
73.105.234.92.in-addr.arpa. 604800 IN PTR
cpc121382-wals12-2-0-cust328.16-1.cable.virginm.net.
that's a 'pool' IP for virgin mobile.
No. Virgin Media.
Ah, OK.
--
"Life is one damned kitten after another." Mehitabel the Alley Cat
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-04-28 10:11:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 22:17:34 +0200
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
{snip list}
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article. I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
That was me.
Aha. So you use the name 92.234.105.73 when you want to hide? I thought
it might be someone from this group.
That's it, you (musika) shall from this day forward be forever known by that nickname!
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-27 20:16:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dan Purgert
Post by musika
"... one piece of mangled pipe."
Start at 43'15"
That's it!
"They recovered one piece of mangled pipe"
http://youtu.be/a0y2hIH2dHg
Someone perhaps maybe transcribed "mangled" to "marled" by accident
and then it just got carried away in the Internet currents!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
https://ww.democraticunderground.org/100215321397
https://alanscandrett.github.io/profile/portfolio/subs/pages/subs.html
https://www.fireballnotes.com/tag/mercury-7-astronauts/
https://www.fireballnotes.com/tag/cyber-attacks/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Submarine-USS-THRESHER-SSN-593-Naval-Cover-1966-LOST-Cachet-/233931562695?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001
All the above have the quote using "marled" instead of "mangled."
Thanks!
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article.
Hmm. Someone called 92.234.105.73 -- about as anonymous as one can get,
espedially as this was 92.234.105.73's sole edit.
Post by Jerry Friedman
I imagine the other
pages will be harder to correct.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter Moylan
2021-04-27 23:49:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article.
Hmm. Someone called 92.234.105.73 -- about as anonymous as one can
get, espedially as this was 92.234.105.73's sole edit.
Good for anonymity, but there are several downsides to having a dynamic
IP address.

Every so often my mail server gets blacklisted, because I have an
address that a spammer used a few days earlier.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Quinn C
2021-04-28 13:01:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
An anonymous person has corrected the Wikipedia article.
Hmm. Someone called 92.234.105.73 -- about as anonymous as one can
get, espedially as this was 92.234.105.73's sole edit.
Good for anonymity, but there are several downsides to having a dynamic
IP address.
Every so often my mail server gets blacklisted, because I have an
address that a spammer used a few days earlier.
For running a server, a static IP sure has advantages, but few people
run public servers at home.

The addresses I get from VPN often get blacklisted - no surprise there.
So I usually have to get off the VPN if I want to edit Wikipedia - even
when I'm logged in. That, I find an overreach, and it has stopped me
from doing some edits.
--
CW: Historical misogyny
Jbzna vf n cnve bs binevrf jvgu n uhzna orvat nggnpurq, jurernf
zna vf n uhzna orvat sheavfurq jvgu n cnve bs grfgrf.
-- Rudolf Virchow
soup
2021-04-27 05:43:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marled
Marled === marbled
Does that definition of "marled" make sense to you in that context?
(Reputed photos of the pipe show it was likely a metal such as brass.)
http://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.CAucM_7XLsi1JBYS8aqYjQHaE_?pid=ImgDet&rs=1
Marled is merely the patina on the piece of pipe .
So yeah sort of Marbled.
It has its roots in knitting where two colours of yarn are knitted
together to provide an 'interesting' pattern.

Witness this Marled clock made from an old bicycle component
Loading Image...
Lewis
2021-04-27 06:37:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marled
Marled === marbled
Does that definition of "marled" make sense to you in that context?
Depends on how well you know what "marbled" means, I guess, or which
definition of marbled.

having markings or coloration suggestive of marble

I would say that a better definition would be "colored or discolored in
a similar manner to the appearance of marble" and it is normally used
for multi-colored yarn.
Post by Dan Purgert
(Reputed photos of the pipe show it was likely a metal such as brass.)
http://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.CAucM_7XLsi1JBYS8aqYjQHaE_?pid=ImgDet&rs=1
Without color, it's impossible to say.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but Tuesday Weld isn't a complete sentence."
Dan Purgert
2021-04-27 19:07:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Without color, it's impossible to say.
All the photos I saw were b&w
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineLibrary/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-t/ssn593-k.htm

This says it was brass
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/ships-us/ships-usn-t/uss-thresher-ssn-593/330-psa-191-63-usn-711350.html
--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
Dingbat
2021-04-30 06:28:56 UTC
Reply
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Marl is also a noun meaning Marlstone, a stone formed from mud and Calcium Carbonate, for example the stone that forms the lower strata of the white cliffs of Dover* and the Chalk Marl through which the Chunnel was bored.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalk_Marl

* The upper strata are partly limestone and partly marl.
Post by Dan Purgert
Was looking up how people die from submarine imposions and ran into
"marled"
"Ballard's robotic survey showed that the depth at which Thresher
had sunk caused implosion and total destruction; the only recoverable
piece was a foot of *marled* pipe."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marled
Marled === marbled
Does that definition of "marled" make sense to you in that context?
(Reputed photos of the pipe show it was likely a metal such as brass.)
http://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.CAucM_7XLsi1JBYS8aqYjQHaE_?pid=ImgDet&rs=1
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