Discussion:
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
(too old to reply)
arlen holder
2019-01-19 17:53:20 UTC
Permalink
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?

Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?

A case in point is this recent cross-platform thread on "privacy" concerns:
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>

Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
y***@gmail.com
2019-01-19 18:42:36 UTC
Permalink
I don't think they do.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-19 21:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Perhaps because the two overlap.

To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
That is, it has to be stored and handled so that it is not accessible to
unauthorised people.

One definition of "secure" from the OED:

Of encryption, or telecommunications or computer systems: protected
from unauthorized access; free from the risk of being intercepted,
decoded, tapped, etc.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Quinn C
2019-01-21 19:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Perhaps because the two overlap.
To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
And conversely, a breach of privacy can increase your risk, e.g. in the
case of identity theft.

But I don't think what the agenda of the OP is. My spidey senses tell
me it's not primarily interested in language.
--
... man muss oft schon Wissenschaft infrage stellen bei den Wirt-
schaftsmenschen [...] das Denken wird haeufig blockiert von einem
ideologischen Ueberbau [...] Es ist halt in vielen Teilen eher
eine Religion als eine Wissenschaft. -- Heiner Flassbeck
Quinn C
2019-01-21 19:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Perhaps because the two overlap.
To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
And conversely, a breach of privacy can increase your risk, e.g. in the
case of identity theft.

But I don't know what the agenda of the OP is. My spidey senses tell
me it's not primarily interested in language.
--
... man muss oft schon Wissenschaft infrage stellen bei den Wirt-
schaftsmenschen [...] das Denken wird haeufig blockiert von einem
ideologischen Ueberbau [...] Es ist halt in vielen Teilen eher
eine Religion als eine Wissenschaft. -- Heiner Flassbeck
John Varela
2019-01-22 20:19:01 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:09:31 UTC, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Perhaps because the two overlap.
To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
And conversely, a breach of privacy can increase your risk, e.g. in the
case of identity theft.
But I don't know what the agenda of the OP is. My spidey senses tell
me it's not primarily interested in language.
The OP is a regular troll on the Mac and iOS news groups.
--
John Varela
Ken Blake
2019-01-22 22:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:09:31 UTC, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Perhaps because the two overlap.
To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
And conversely, a breach of privacy can increase your risk, e.g. in the
case of identity theft.
But I don't know what the agenda of the OP is. My spidey senses tell
me it's not primarily interested in language.
The OP is a regular troll on the Mac and iOS news groups.
And Windows groups too.
s***@gmail.com
2019-01-22 22:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by John Varela
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:09:31 UTC, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Perhaps because the two overlap.
To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
And conversely, a breach of privacy can increase your risk, e.g. in the
case of identity theft.
But I don't know what the agenda of the OP is. My spidey senses tell
me it's not primarily interested in language.
The OP is a regular troll on the Mac and iOS news groups.
And Windows groups too.
I think we've met here, before. How are your rotors?

/dps
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-22 23:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by John Varela
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:09:31 UTC, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
But I don't know what the agenda of the OP is. My spidey senses tell
me it's not primarily interested in language.
The OP is a regular troll on the Mac and iOS news groups.
And Windows groups too.
An agnostic troll?
--
Sam Plusnet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-23 08:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:09:31 UTC, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities
between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Perhaps because the two overlap.
To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
And conversely, a breach of privacy can increase your risk, e.g. in the
case of identity theft.
But I don't know what the agenda of the OP is. My spidey senses tell
me it's not primarily interested in language.
The OP is a regular troll on the Mac and iOS news groups.
and sometimes (not just now) in this group. Don't feed it.
--
athel
arlen holder
2019-01-23 01:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Perhaps because the two overlap.
To keep information private it has to be stored and hamdle securely.
That is, it has to be stored and handled so that it is not accessible to
unauthorised people.
Of encryption, or telecommunications or computer systems: protected
from unauthorized access; free from the risk of being intercepted,
decoded, tapped, etc.
This seems the most to fit the common situation where people don't seem to
know that there is an extremely clear distinction.

It's like the distinction between, oh, I don't know, say, coffee and tea.

To most people they're both hot.
You may sugar them both.
You might even dairy them

You put them in sort of similar cups.
And they're both made from sort of similar powdered materials.

And yet, they're completely different.
Same with security & privacy.

Some references...
o What is the difference between privacy and security?What is the difference between privacy and security?
<https://www.csoonline.com/article/3075023/privacy/the-difference-between-privacy-and-security.html>

o Privacy vs. Security
<http://www.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=3751958>

o Privacy vs. Security: Experts Debate Merits of Each in Tech-Rich World
<http://www.govtech.com/policy/Privacy-vs-Security-Experts-Debate-Merits-of-Each-in-Tech-Rich-World.html>

The Great Debate: Security vs. Privacy
<https://www.ecmag.com/section/your-business/great-debate-security-vs-privacy>
etc.
Madhu
2019-01-20 01:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by arlen holder
Why do so many people CONFUSE "privacy" with "security"?
Is it mostly due ot the fact that they're immune to facts?
Or, are they unduly influenced by MARKETING propaganda?
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities
between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
Inevitably, people mix up "privacy" with "security".
Why?
Because they are antithetical to each other and the corrupt deceptive
security industry narrative verticals in both government and technology
are charted with exploiting this confusion to bring the entire
population of the world under the subjection of the kingdom of the
antichrist and each and every one of our "security experts" have been
individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-20 11:24:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 02:03:49 GMT, Madhu <***@meer.net> wrote:

[]
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in
achieve

(many more exceptions are available)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-20 12:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in
achieve
(many more exceptions are available)
But achieve isn't an exception. The i comes before the e
precisely because it doesn't follow a c. It follows an h. If
the rule applied to any c in *any* position preceding things
would really get wild. As it is there are already said to be
more exceptions than rule-bound words in English.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-01-20 14:59:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 12:19:37 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in
achieve
(many more exceptions are available)
But achieve isn't an exception. The i comes before the e
precisely because it doesn't follow a c. It follows an h. If
the rule applied to any c in *any* position preceding things
would really get wild. As it is there are already said to be
more exceptions than rule-bound words in English.
Is this received wisdom? What a deceit!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-20 15:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in
achieve
(many more exceptions are available)
But achieve isn't an exception. The i comes before the e
precisely because it doesn't follow a c. It follows an h. If
the rule applied to any c in *any* position preceding things
would really get wild. As it is there are already said to be
more exceptions than rule-bound words in English.
Well ... you do have a bit of a history of responding to trolls ...
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-20 15:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in
achieve
(many more exceptions are available)
But achieve isn't an exception. The i comes before the e
precisely because it doesn't follow a c. It follows an h. If
the rule applied to any c in *any* position preceding things
would really get wild. As it is there are already said to be
more exceptions than rule-bound words in English.
Very few exceptions if you qualify by saying that for it to apply the
ei or ie must be pronounced [ɪj] ("ee"). About the only common word is
"seize". Some would include "(n)either", but they aren't exceptions the
way I say them: ['(n)ɑɪ̯ðə]. Some names, of course, like Leith and
Keith.
--
athel
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-20 16:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in
achieve
(many more exceptions are available)
But achieve isn't an exception. The i comes before the e
precisely because it doesn't follow a c. It follows an h. If
the rule applied to any c in *any* position preceding things
would really get wild. As it is there are already said to be
more exceptions than rule-bound words in English.
Very few exceptions if you qualify by saying that for it to apply the ei
or ie must be pronounced [ɪj] ("ee"). About the only common word is
"seize". Some would include "(n)either", but they aren't exceptions the
way I say them: ['(n)ɑɪ̯ðə]. Some names, of course, like Leith and Keith.
And from the same country, "weird". I fancied there were a few others,
but maybe you rhyme "fancied" with "rancid".
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2019-01-20 17:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[]
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
In one episode of the long-lamented political-satire series _Double
Exposure_, Joe Clark (an iconically stuffy politician) and his wife were
in Hell. When Joe stiffly but politely asked a demon to stop drooling
on his shoes, the demon replied, hoarsely but politely, "Many people are
grateful for the moisture".

Maybe DB's individual unction is good for eczema.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in achieve
(many more exceptions are available)
But achieve isn't an exception. The i comes before the e precisely
because it doesn't follow a c. It follows an h. If the rule applied
to any c in *any* position preceding things would really get wild.
As it is there are already said to be more exceptions than
rule-bound words in English.
Very few exceptions if you qualify by saying that for it to apply the
ei or ie must be pronounced [ɪj] ("ee"). About the only common word
is "seize". Some would include "(n)either", but they aren't
exceptions the way I say them: ['(n)ɑɪ̯ðə]. Some names, of course,
like Leith and Keith.
The exceptions in my rhyme were for words "spoken like ['long'] 'a', as
in 'neighbour' or 'weigh'". (Or in [horse's] "neigh", or "sleigh", or
"inveigh".) (Or "leisure", which in my pronunciation, (['***@r]), might
need yet another exception.)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-20 18:23:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[]
been individually anointed by satan to acheive this purpose
In one episode of the long-lamented political-satire series _Double
Exposure_, Joe Clark (an iconically stuffy politician) and his wife were
in Hell. When Joe stiffly but politely asked a demon to stop drooling
on his shoes, the demon replied, hoarsely but politely, "Many people are
grateful for the moisture".
Maybe DB's individual unction is good for eczema.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
'i' before 'e' except after 'c', except in achieve
(many more exceptions are available)
But achieve isn't an exception. The i comes before the e precisely
because it doesn't follow a c. It follows an h. If the rule applied
to any c in *any* position preceding things would really get wild.
As it is there are already said to be more exceptions than
rule-bound words in English.
Very few exceptions if you qualify by saying that for it to apply the
ei or ie must be pronounced [ɪj] ("ee"). About the only common word
is "seize". Some would include "(n)either", but they aren't
exceptions the way I say them: ['(n)ɑɪ̯ðə]. Some names, of course,
like Leith and Keith.
The exceptions in my rhyme were for words "spoken like ['long'] 'a', as
in 'neighbour' or 'weigh'". (Or in [horse's] "neigh", or "sleigh", or
need yet another exception.)
I say ['leʒə], so it's not an exception for me, but I know that some
people say ['lɪjʒər].
--
athel
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