Discussion:
Translation Please
(too old to reply)
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-04 20:31:07 UTC
Permalink
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.

"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.

"Candid resemblance"?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Stefan Ram
2021-04-04 20:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
|The former crown prince is also considered popular. He bears
|a very striking resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and
|he is also very popular among the local tribes," she said.

Latin "candidus" "glowing" from "candēre" "to shine".
charles
2021-04-04 20:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
possibly 'close resemblance"
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Ross Clark
2021-04-04 20:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
white?
splendid, illustrious; fortunate?
pure, clear; stainless, innocent?
free from bias; fair, impartial, just?
free from malice; not desirous to find faults (Johnson)?
gentle, courteous (Cotgrave)?
favourably disposed, favourable, kindly?
frank, open, ingenuous, straight-forward, sincere in what one says?

Well, that's all the senses of "candid" we have, sorry. Most of them
obsolete, and none obviously fit to describe a _resemblance_.

I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something like "In his very
candid nature he resembles his father...", using the last sense, which
is the only really common one today.
Stefan Ram
2021-04-04 21:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...

No, no, the Web gives us:

|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn

|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs

|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar

(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
Ross Clark
2021-04-05 01:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...
|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn
|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs
|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar
(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
So what does it mean?
Stefan Ram
2021-04-05 04:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...
|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn
|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs
|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar
(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
So what does it mean?
"Striking resemblance" is what my guess was. Or, "obvious
resemblance".

One reference for "obvious" is a web page that lists
"candid" as "another word for most obvious":

|Trying to find another word for most obvious in English? ...
|apparent; arrant; audacious; blatant; blunt; bold; brash;
|brassy; brazen; candid; clear; flagrant; frank.

. Another approach would be to ask:

You read someting like: "He has a @&*^#@* resemblance with
him!", and you do not know the adjective "@&*^#@*" at all,
but what are the possible meanings? I think there are few;
some form of affirmation or reinforcement is the most likely
answer.
Ross Clark
2021-04-05 10:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...
|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn
|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs
|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar
(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
So what does it mean?
"Striking resemblance" is what my guess was. Or, "obvious
resemblance".
"Striking" is what I heard on the TV news tonight to describe the same
resemblance. Almost a conventional modifier for that noun. So it's a
reasonable guess. But it's still hard to get there from any normal sense
of "candid".
Post by Stefan Ram
One reference for "obvious" is a web page that lists
No, it just isn't. And I now remember that you are notorious for not
identifying your sources, so I can't check this web page and see what it
actually says.
Post by Stefan Ram
|Trying to find another word for most obvious in English? ...
|apparent; arrant; audacious; blatant; blunt; bold; brash;
|brassy; brazen; candid; clear; flagrant; frank.
Just shows you can't trust everything on the web.
Post by Stefan Ram
but what are the possible meanings? I think there are few;
some form of affirmation or reinforcement is the most likely
answer.
Lewis
2021-04-05 13:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
One reference for "obvious" is a web page that lists
What reference on what web page?
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Doctor. But are these really the legs of a show girl?"
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-04-05 14:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...
|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn
|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs
|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar
(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
So what does it mean?
"Striking resemblance" is what my guess was. Or, "obvious
resemblance".
A phrase that suddenly came to mind when I was not thinking about this
topic was "true resemblance".

https://www.flickr.com/photos/shankaronline/27900364655

<image>
So here it is, the Fleshy Sea Pen. I was fascinated at the true
resemblance to an old quill type fountain pen- heck, I thought I
could almost dip this animal into a pot of ink and write with it!

Surveying a site with a £-D Laser Scanner:
https://www.pointscan.co.uk/3d-laser-survey/

....
Safe, Fast & Accurate.
....
With each scan accurate up to +/- 2mm, 3D laser surveys recreate a
true resemblance of their environment.

https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=3439

Socrates on the Invention of Writing and the Relationship of Writing
to Memory

<image caption>:
Marble head of Socrates in the Louvre. As with virtually all
portrayals of figures from Greece, except possibly the renderinigs
of leaders on coins, we have no way to judge whether or not this
sculpture bears any true resemblance to Socrates's actual
appearance.
Post by Stefan Ram
One reference for "obvious" is a web page that lists
|Trying to find another word for most obvious in English? ...
|apparent; arrant; audacious; blatant; blunt; bold; brash;
|brassy; brazen; candid; clear; flagrant; frank.
but what are the possible meanings? I think there are few;
some form of affirmation or reinforcement is the most likely
answer.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-05 20:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...
|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn
|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs
|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar
(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
So what does it mean?
"Striking resemblance" is what my guess was. Or, "obvious
resemblance".
A phrase that suddenly came to mind when I was not thinking about this
topic was "true resemblance".
Not "true likeness"?

As in

"I certify that this is a true likeness of..."

written on the back of a photograph supplied with a passport application.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-04-05 22:34:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...
|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn
|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs
|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar
(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
So what does it mean?
"Striking resemblance" is what my guess was. Or, "obvious
resemblance".
A phrase that suddenly came to mind when I was not thinking about this
topic was "true resemblance".
Not "true likeness"?
No. I'm certainly very familiar with "true likeness" but it seems that
what the back of my mind was working on was "<something> resemblance".
Where <something> was to replace "candid" in "candid resemblance".

Perhaps I have met "true resemblance" some time and it was in a deep
part of my memory.
Post by Sam Plusnet
As in
"I certify that this is a true likeness of..."
written on the back of a photograph supplied with a passport application.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-06 08:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Ross Clark
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something
...
|My dad said there's a candid resemblance between me and Finn
|The DeFi market bears a candid resemblance to ICOs
|referring to Deschanel's candid resemblance to the popstar
(several dozen hits). This is just a collocation that we did
not know yet and one that is too young or rare to be found
in standard dictionaries.
So what does it mean?
"Striking resemblance" is what my guess was. Or, "obvious
resemblance".
A phrase that suddenly came to mind when I was not thinking about this
topic was "true resemblance".
Not "true likeness"?
As in
"I certify that this is a true likeness of..."
written on the back of a photograph supplied with a passport application.
In 1996 I needed a new passport urgently after the previous one was
stolen (in Leipzig**). I got my neighbour to certify the new photos,
but I was in such a nervous state when I went to the Consulate in
Paris* that I forgot to bring them with me. The woman at the counter
said "Don't worry, there is a photo place 50 m down the road", to which
I said that they wouldn't be certified, and she told me not to worry
about that either. They produced my passport in a couple of hours (it
was supposed to take three weeks, and then only if they believed that
the previous one was stolen rather than sold to a shady character),
leaving me enough time to get to the Australian Consulate the same
morning to get a new visa. On the telephone before the British people
had been extremely unpleasant (but the Australians were very friendly).
However, when they saw that I was white, spoke RP, that I had shortish
hair and no beard, and knew how to tie a tie, they were very helpful.
My wife has a different theory about why they were so helpful: she said
it was because she had been urging various people in authority to send
faxes to the Consulate telling them how respectable I was and that the
UK economy would collapse if I wasn't able to publicize my book in
Australia.

*It's no longer possible to do it in Paris, or indeed anywhere in
person. If it's possible at all I'd have to go to Durham.

**Fortunately this was after Reunification, so I didn't need my
passport to get out of Germany and into France.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-04 22:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
white?
splendid, illustrious; fortunate?
pure, clear; stainless, innocent?
free from bias; fair, impartial, just?
free from malice; not desirous to find faults (Johnson)?
gentle, courteous (Cotgrave)?
favourably disposed, favourable, kindly?
frank, open, ingenuous, straight-forward, sincere in what one says?
Well, that's all the senses of "candid" we have, sorry. Most of them
obsolete, and none obviously fit to describe a _resemblance_.
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something like "In his very
candid nature he resembles his father...", using the last sense, which
is the only really common one today.
That certainly seems more likely than "the kind of resemblance that
appears in candid photographs".

When my brother and I did things that revealed a resemblance to my
father and paternal grandfather, said grandfather would say "You come
by it rightfully." Candid-honest-legitimate? OK, probably not.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-05 13:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
white?
splendid, illustrious; fortunate?
pure, clear; stainless, innocent?
free from bias; fair, impartial, just?
free from malice; not desirous to find faults (Johnson)?
gentle, courteous (Cotgrave)?
favourably disposed, favourable, kindly?
frank, open, ingenuous, straight-forward, sincere in what one says?
Well, that's all the senses of "candid" we have, sorry. Most of them
obsolete, and none obviously fit to describe a _resemblance_.
I suspect an ill-advised attempt to compress something like "In his very
candid nature he resembles his father...", using the last sense, which
is the only really common one today.
Or, he learned one translation of some Arabic word, which isn't the
appropriate sense of that word in this context.
Lewis
2021-04-05 03:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
Not a native speaker, I would guess.

Candid means truthful and straightforward, and I could see the misuse
above being thought to make sense in that statement.
--
Principal Powers: What a waste. I can't do anything more to help you. I'm not
Wonder Woman, you know.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-05 14:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
Not a native speaker, I would guess.
Candid means truthful and straightforward, and I could see the misuse
above being thought to make sense in that statement.
The phrase is rare, but there are examples from native speakers.

"...had a certain candid resemblance to the sitter's and the sketch
caused a considerable stir and some amusement in the family.
About the same time I made another drawing..."

Adrian Daintrey, F. R. B., in /The Artist/ (1971)

"Candid" there might mean "revealing the author's attitude toward the
sitter".


"Honey concluded that the strategies the girls used in /Wizardry/ bore a
remarkably candid resemblance to the kinds of strategies that girls and
women use in gender over-determined real-life situations."

[I'd have written "gender-overdetermined" if I knew what it meant.]

/Ghosts in the Machine: Women's Voices in Research with
Technology/ (2002).

https://books.google.com/books?id=bijbAAAAMAAJ&q=%22candid+resemblance%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwxs-GpOfvAhXRG80KHUj5BN0Q6AEwBHoECAAQAg

All the authors have names that suggest native speakers. That
sentence is probably from the article by Katie McMillan Culp and
Margaret Honey.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ghosts-in-the-machine-nicola-yelland/1111495664?ean=9780820449111


"The first picture was a picture of her mother $hantey Money,
reminding him of Queen Latifah with a twist of Missy Elliott. He
couldn't believe the candid resemblance between STARR and her
mother $hantey Money in their eyes and smile."

Theresa Vernell, /Jazz1café: Volume I: the Neosoul STARR (Featuring Soulshine
Sessions)/ (2015)

https://books.google.com/books?id=HlWfCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT231

("$hantey Money" is apparently a singer's stage name, and I'll bet the
first name is pronounced /SAn'teI/ "ShahnTAY".)


I also looked for "frank resemblance". That occurred a couple of times
in medicine, seemingly using "frank" in the medical sense "obvious",
which may provide a hint about how "candid" might mean "obvious" to
some people.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jack
2021-04-05 04:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
I read it as not subtle, not hidden. You don't have to look deep t
Peter Moylan
2021-04-05 04:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following
quote from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very
candid resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very
popular with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
I read it as not subtle, not hidden. You don't have to look deep to
find the resemblance.
I'm not happy with any of the suggestions I've seen so far.

Wouldn't it be more likely that the journalist was reaching for a word,
and picked the wrong one? Even native speakers can do this in an
unprepared speech, and I'm guessing that the journalist is not a native
speaker, which makes it even more likely.

"Candid" simply doesn't fit in that sentence.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Ross Clark
2021-04-05 10:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following
quote from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very
candid resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very
popular with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
I read it as not subtle, not hidden. You don't have to look deep to
find the resemblance.
I'm not happy with any of the suggestions I've seen so far.
Wouldn't it be more likely that the journalist was reaching for a word,
and picked the wrong one? Even native speakers can do this in an
unprepared speech, and I'm guessing that the journalist is not a native
speaker, which makes it even more likely.
They were probably using one of the dodgy "thesaurus" sites such as
Stefan refers to.
Post by Peter Moylan
"Candid" simply doesn't fit in that sentence.
Ross Clark
2021-04-05 10:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
A BBC report on the situation in Jordan contained the following quote
from a Jordanian journalist.
"The former crown prince is also seen as popular. He has a very candid
resemblance to his father, King Hussein, and he is also very popular
with the local tribes," she said.
"Candid resemblance"?
I read it as not subtle, not hidden. You don't have to look deep to
find the resemblance.
That's better than some of the suggested connections. But "candid"
refers to persons and things they say. Personifying a resemblance?
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