Discussion:
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close?
(too old to reply)
hongy...@gmail.com
2021-12-04 01:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Are San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such things)
and the second and third are correct.
Thank you for pointing this out.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that language
is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country or provinces
or something, but even if you added those words, you can't say a city
is close to a region it's in.
I have never been to those places, so there is no specific concept of geographic location and regional inclusion relationship between them.

Do you mean: San Sebastián belongs to Basque country or provinces?
Jerry Friedman
2021-12-04 02:55:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Are San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such things)
and the second and third are correct.
Thank you for pointing this out.
You're welcome.
Post by ***@gmail.com
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that language
is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country or provinces
or something, but even if you added those words, you can't say a city
is close to a region it's in.
I have never been to those places, so there is no specific concept of geographic location and regional inclusion relationship between them.
Do you mean: San Sebastián belongs to Basque country or provinces?
Possible sensible questions are "Is San Sebastián in the Basque country?"
and "Is San Sebastián in the Basque provinces?" and various other
possibilities.
--
Jerry Friedman
charles
2021-12-04 16:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by ***@gmail.com
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close? Are San Sebastián and
Basque very close? Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things) and the second and third are correct.
Thank you for pointing this out.
You're welcome.
Post by ***@gmail.com
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that
language is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country
or provinces or something, but even if you added those words, you
can't say a city is close to a region it's in.
I have never been to those places, so there is no specific concept of
geographic location and regional inclusion relationship between them.
Do you mean: San Sebastián belongs to Basque country or provinces?
Possible sensible questions are "Is San Sebastián in the Basque
country?" and "Is San Sebastián in the Basque provinces?" and various
other possibilities.
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in San Sebastián?"
There wasa Frank Muir joke about 'putting all your Basgues in one exit'
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Sam Plusnet
2021-12-04 20:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:45:37 AM UTC+8, Jerry Friedman
wrote: > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-7,
Are San Sebastián and Basque very close? > > Is San Sebastián
close to Basque? > > > > Are all the above statements correct? >
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things) > and the second and third are correct.
Thank you for pointing this out.
You're welcome.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that
language > is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country
or provinces > or something, but even if you added those words, you
can't say a city > is close to a region it's in.
I have never been to those places, so there is no specific concept of
geographic location and regional inclusion relationship between them.
Do you mean: San Sebastián belongs to Basque country or provinces?
Possible sensible questions are "Is San Sebastián in the Basque country?"
and "Is San Sebastián in the Basque provinces?" and various other
possibilities.
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
--
Sam Plusnet
Sam Plusnet
2021-12-05 01:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:45:37 AM UTC+8, Jerry Friedman
wrote: > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-7,
close? > > Are San Sebastián and Basque very close? > > Is San
Sebastián close to Basque? > > > > Are all the above statements
correct? > Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard
people say such things) > and the second and third are correct.
Thank you for pointing this out.
You're welcome.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is
a > language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that
language > is spoken. That region could be called the Basque
country or provinces > or something, but even if you added those
words, you can't say a city > is close to a region it's in.
I have never been to those places, so there is no specific concept
of geographic location and regional inclusion relationship between
them.
Do you mean: San Sebastián belongs to Basque country or provinces?
Possible sensible questions are "Is San Sebastián in the Basque country?"
and "Is San Sebastián in the Basque provinces?" and various other
possibilities.
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the most
common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there. I didn't find any.
I did discover that there had been a significant influx of people from
other parts of Spain over time.
Besides Spanish (actually called "Castilian"), there are actually five
co-official languages spoken in Spain: Aranese, Basque, Catalan,
Valencian, and Galician.
The are also several other fairly common languages and dialects that are
not official.
--
Sam Plusnet
Quinn C
2021-12-05 03:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sam Plusnet
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the most
common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there. I didn't find any.
I did discover that there had been a significant influx of people from
other parts of Spain over time.
In all the larger towns, Basque speakers are a minority
<Loading Image...>
--
Bring home one dismembered body part, once, mind you, once,
and people get twitchy about checking your luggage ever after.
-- Vicereine Cordelia
in L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen
Peter T. Daniels
2021-12-05 13:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Sam Plusnet
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the most
common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there. I didn't find any.
I did discover that there had been a significant influx of people from
other parts of Spain over time.
In all the larger towns, Basque speakers are a minority
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Basque_as_first_language%28corrected%29.JPG>
As all too often happens with "heritage languages." Sociolinguists
wonder how Welsh has hung on as well as it has -- especially in
comparison with Gaelic and maybe Irish, where the topography
would seem to be more supportive of the survival of pockets of
tradition.
Sam Plusnet
2021-12-05 19:17:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sam Plusnet
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the most
common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there. I didn't find any.
I did discover that there had been a significant influx of people from
other parts of Spain over time.
In all the larger towns, Basque speakers are a minority
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Basque_as_first_language%28corrected%29.JPG>
I looked at that & wondered where the data came from. I googled the
'author' of that image & didn't find anything useful.

Isn't there sometimes a distinction between language used in large towns
& cities - and that in surrounding rural areas?
--
Sam Plusnet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-12-06 07:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Quinn C
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sam Plusnet
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the most
common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there. I didn't find any.
I did discover that there had been a significant influx of people from
other parts of Spain over time.
In all the larger towns, Basque speakers are a minority
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Basque_as_first_language%28corrected%29.JPG>
I looked at that & wondered where the data came from. I googled the
'author' of that image & didn't find anything useful.
Isn't there sometimes a distinction between language used in large
towns & cities - and that in surrounding rural areas?
I suspect that that idea may not be new to you, living as you do in Wales.
--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
Sam Plusnet
2021-12-06 19:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Quinn C
Post by Sam Plusnet
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the most
common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there.  I didn't find any.
I did discover that there had been a significant influx of people from
other parts of Spain over time.
In all the larger towns, Basque speakers are a minority
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Basque_as_first_language%28corrected%29.JPG>
I looked at that & wondered where the data came from.  I googled the
'author' of that image & didn't find anything useful.
Isn't there sometimes a distinction between language used in large
towns & cities - and that in surrounding rural areas?
I suspect that that idea may not be new to you, living as you do in Wales.
Actually, I was thinking of Habsburg Hungary where it was seemingly
common for the people in the villages to speak Magyar, but learn & speak
German if they moved to a town or city,
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter Moylan
2021-12-06 22:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Quinn C
In all the larger towns, Basque speakers are a minority
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Basque_as_first_language%28corrected%29.JPG>
I looked at that & wondered where the data came from. I googled
the 'author' of that image & didn't find anything useful.
Isn't there sometimes a distinction between language used in
large towns & cities - and that in surrounding rural areas?
I suspect that that idea may not be new to you, living as you do in Wales.
Actually, I was thinking of Habsburg Hungary where it was seemingly
common for the people in the villages to speak Magyar, but learn &
speak German if they moved to a town or city,
One of the reasons for language tensions in Belgium is that,
historically, the Flemish who moved to the big cities and became
successful in business switched to using French. Thus, French was seen
as the language of the upper classes.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Peter Moylan
2021-12-07 01:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
One of the reasons for language tensions in Belgium is that,
historically, the Flemish who moved to the big cities and became
successful in business switched to using French. Thus, French was
seen as the language of the upper classes.
In October 1970, when I was on a tour for university student press
editors of NATO facilities in Europe, we had breakfast at the opulent
home of the Canadian ambassador to NATO, in Brussels. The ambassador
and other diplomatic attendees spoke English or French as required,
but the serving staff spoke Flemish. The latter were delighted that I
could speak Dutch/Flemish with them.
I was staying with my wife's relatives in Antwerp when the youngest of
my children were learning to speak. My daughter said (probably to her
brother) "That's a spoon". From another room my wife's aunt called out
"C'est une cuillère". A few seconds later, a voice from the kitchen said
"Dat's een lepel".

(Having someone working in the kitchen did make sense. My wife's
relatives were elderly and couldn't do everything for themselves.)
(It was at that breakfast that the ambassador announced the murder of
Pierre Laporte, a Quebec politician who had been kidnapped by the
separatist Front de Liberation du Quebec. That gave pause to
everyone, including those of us who thought that Quebec should have
the right of self-determination.)
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-12-09 09:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
One of the reasons for language tensions in Belgium is that,
historically, the Flemish who moved to the big cities and became
successful in business switched to using French. Thus, French was seen
as the language of the upper classes.
In October 1970, when I was on a tour for university student press editors
of NATO facilities in Europe, we had breakfast at the opulent home of the
Canadian ambassador to NATO, in Brussels. The ambassador and other
diplomatic attendees spoke English or French as required, but the serving
staff spoke Flemish. The latter were delighted that I could speak Dutch/Flemish
with them.
Delightful! Did they speak a standard Vlaams or various dialects?
My first language was a southern Dutch dialect that was close to Flemish,
but a little to the north. But I was never an expert in the different flavours of
Flemish and Dutch. My family immigrated to Canada when I was just 11,
and I did not have the opportunity to develop an adult's appreciation of the language.

bill

Quinn C
2021-12-06 23:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Quinn C
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sam Plusnet
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the most
common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there. I didn't find any.
I did discover that there had been a significant influx of people from
other parts of Spain over time.
In all the larger towns, Basque speakers are a minority
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Basque_as_first_language%28corrected%29.JPG>
I looked at that & wondered where the data came from. I googled the
'author' of that image & didn't find anything useful.
Isn't there sometimes a distinction between language used in large towns
& cities - and that in surrounding rural areas?
There's often two effects that combine: larger towns attract more
migrants from other parts of the country or even other countries, and
they have more exchange - trade etc. - with other areas. The national
language, or some other lingua franca, becomes the agreed medium of
communication, and then the people originally speaking the local
language switch over, too, for economic reasons.

That's how language death is mostly happening: parents from minority
language groups don't see a point teaching their language to their
children, because only the majority language will ensure a livelihood.
--
Somebody, your father or mine, should have told us that not many
people have ever died of love. But multitudes have perished, and
are perishing every hour [...] for the lack of it.
-- James Baldwin, Giovanni's Room
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-12-07 04:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Isn't there sometimes a distinction between language used in large towns
& cities - and that in surrounding rural areas?
There used to be. In my childhood in the Netherlands, there were discernible
differences in how people talked in towns only kilometers apart. I am no
authority on the subject, but I think that all began to change in the 1960s,
when the depressed postwar Dutch economy flowered, ordinary people
acquired home TV sets and automobiles, and the communications explosion
that resulted largely wiped out local and regional dialects. (Frisian probably
excluded. I was under the impression they spoke a different language there.)

bill
Quinn C
2021-12-07 15:31:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Isn't there sometimes a distinction between language used in large towns
& cities - and that in surrounding rural areas?
There used to be. In my childhood in the Netherlands, there were discernible
differences in how people talked in towns only kilometers apart. I am no
authority on the subject, but I think that all began to change in the 1960s,
when the depressed postwar Dutch economy flowered, ordinary people
acquired home TV sets and automobiles, and the communications explosion
that resulted largely wiped out local and regional dialects. (Frisian probably
excluded. I was under the impression they spoke a different language there.)
That effect might be gradually different in cities, but not radically.
My grandfather said he was able to distinguish several dialects within
Frankfurt.

When it comes to actual bilinguality, there's often a greater city-rural
difference. I don't think anywhere else in Quebec is nearly as bilingual
as Montreal, but maybe people with Ottawa experience know more about the
adjacent area. A similar thing may also apply to local/regional dialect
- standard language bilinguality.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
musika
2021-12-05 03:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Possible sensible questions are "Is San Sebastián in the
Basque country?" and "Is San Sebastián in the Basque
provinces?" and various other possibilities.
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián. Spanish is also
'an official language'.
I wasn't talking about official languages. I was talking about the
most common language spoken there.
I looked for information on language usage there. I didn't find
any. I did discover that there had been a significant influx of
people from other parts of Spain over time.
This looks interesting
<https://en.eustat.eus/elementos/ele0011300/language-use-only-basque-speakers-of-the-population-of-the-basque-country--16-years-of-age-in-the-family-according-to-province-and-sex/tbl0011314_i.html>

https://tinyurl.com/y3fxbhtf
--
Ray
UK
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-12-05 08:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:45:37 AM UTC+8, Jerry Friedman
wrote: > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-7,
Are San Sebastián and Basque very close? > > Is San Sebastián
close to Basque? > > > > Are all the above statements correct? >
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things) > and the second and third are correct.
Thank you for pointing this out.
You're welcome.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that
language > is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country or
provinces > or something, but even if you added those words, you can't
say a city > is close to a region it's in.
I have never been to those places, so there is no specific concept of
geographic location and regional inclusion relationship between them.
Do you mean: San Sebastián belongs to Basque country or provinces?
Possible sensible questions are "Is San Sebastián in the Basque country?"
and "Is San Sebastián in the Basque provinces?" and various other
possibilities.
...such as "Is Basque the language spoken in  San Sebastián?"
One of the two languages spoken in San Sebastián.
Spanish is also 'an official language'.
Spoken by the overwhelming majority of the population of San Sebastián.
--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
Dingbat
2021-12-04 06:37:30 UTC
Permalink
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Are San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
None of them is correct.
San Sebastian and Pampalona are close.
Anything close to Basque would be another dalect of Basque.
Paul Carmichael
2021-12-04 08:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close? Are San Sebastián and Basque
very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things)
and the second and third are correct.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that language
is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country or provinces
or something, but even if you added those words, you can't say a city is
close to a region it's in.
A little bit complicated because the Basque Country is spread across the
border between Spain and France. The bit on the Spanish side is called
Euskadi and the language is Euskera. I know nothing about the French
side, other than it looks a bit Swiss.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Sebasti%C3%A1n
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-12-04 12:14:29 UTC
Permalink
On 4 Dec 2021 08:43:44 GMT
Post by Paul Carmichael
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close? Are San Sebastián and
Basque very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things)
and the second and third are correct.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that
language is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country
or provinces or something, but even if you added those words, you
can't say a city is close to a region it's in.
A little bit complicated because the Basque Country is spread across
the border between Spain and France. The bit on the Spanish side is
called Euskadi and the language is Euskera. I know nothing about the
French side, other than it looks a bit Swiss.
Ah. I can add to your knowledge; they have a flag that gets waved a lot
at cyclists during the TdeF and Vuelta Pyrenean(word?) stages. And that
Basque is unrelated to any other language in the world; though the
people aren't particularly genetically unusual.

But enough for some insight:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34175224
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-12-04 13:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Ah. I can add to your knowledge; they have a flag that gets waved a lot
at cyclists during the TdeF and Vuelta Pyrenean(word?) stages. And that
Basque is unrelated to any other language in the world; though the
people aren't particularly genetically unusual.
Is not demonstrably related.

You cannot prove that two languages are not related.

There are all sorts of theories that Basque is related to this or that family.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-12-04 14:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On 4 Dec 2021 08:43:44 GMT
Post by Paul Carmichael
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close? Are San Sebastián and
Basque very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things)
and the second and third are correct.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that
language is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country
or provinces or something, but even if you added those words, you
can't say a city is close to a region it's in.
A little bit complicated because the Basque Country is spread across
the border between Spain and France. The bit on the Spanish side is
called Euskadi and the language is Euskera. I know nothing about the
French side, other than it looks a bit Swiss.
Ah. I can add to your knowledge; they have a flag that gets waved a lot
It looks a bit like a Union Flag drawn by someone with only a vague
idea of what it look like.
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
at cyclists during the TdeF and Vuelta Pyrenean(word?) stages. And that
Basque is unrelated to any other language in the world; though the
people aren't particularly genetically unusual.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34175224
--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-12-04 14:21:23 UTC
Permalink
[Basque people]
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Ah. I can add to your knowledge; they have a flag that gets waved a lot
It looks a bit like a Union Flag drawn by someone with only a vague
idea of what it look like.
Mister Nasty strikes again.

Does he think the Liberian and Malaysian flags "look a bit like an American
Flag drawn by someone with only a vague idea of what it look like"?

Which of the Scandinavian flags does he think the others are "vague"
imitations of?

Is he offended that quite a few flags imitate the structure of the Tricolor
of the nation to which he defected?
J. J. Lodder
2021-12-04 15:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close? Are San Sebastián and Basque
very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things)
and the second and third are correct.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that language
is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country or provinces
or something, but even if you added those words, you can't say a city is
close to a region it's in.
A little bit complicated because the Basque Country is spread across the
border between Spain and France. The bit on the Spanish side is called
Euskadi and the language is Euskera. I know nothing about the French
side, other than it looks a bit Swiss.
The Basque region (San Sebastian, Biaritz) and Switzerland,
and many other places with Spas, beaches and the like
were fashionable tourist resorts for well to do
in the late 19th/early twentieth century.
So those tourist resorts expanded greatly.

There is a vaguely international style
for luxury hotels from that period.
If you don't know where it is it is hard to place
from just a picture of it,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2021-12-04 20:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close? Are San Sebastián and Basque
very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such
things)
and the second and third are correct.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that language
is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country or provinces
or something, but even if you added those words, you can't say a city is
close to a region it's in.
A little bit complicated because the Basque Country is spread across the
border between Spain and France.
...
I was glossing over that part.
Pity.
This might help/hinder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Eurocity_Bayonne-San_Sebastián
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-12-04 20:10:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 07:19:52 -0800 (PST)
On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 1:43:49 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 5:23:08 PM UTC-7,
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close? Are San Sebastián and
Basque very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say
such things)
and the second and third are correct.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is
a language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that
language is spoken. That region could be called the Basque
country or provinces or something, but even if you added those
words, you can't say a city is close to a region it's in.
A little bit complicated because the Basque Country is spread
across the border between Spain and France.
...
I was glossing over that part.
Careful, Doctor, you might get panned for that.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
J. J. Lodder
2021-12-04 14:57:08 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Is San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Are San Sebastián and Basque very close?
Is San Sebastián close to Basque?
Are all the above statements correct?
Grammatically, the first is wrong (though I've heard people say such things)
and the second and third are correct.
Thank you for pointing this out.
As a practical matter, the questions don't make sense. Basque is a
language and San Sebastián is a city in the region where that language
is spoken. That region could be called the Basque country or provinces
or something, but even if you added those words, you can't say a city
is close to a region it's in.
I have never been to those places, so there is no specific concept of
geographic location and regional inclusion relationship between them.
Do you mean: San Sebastián belongs to Basque country or provinces?
San Sebastian is the capital of a province in the Basque Country,
which is a part of Spain.
The Basque Country, as a greater region, straddles the border.
Apart from the Spanish part there also is a French part.
If you are not confused yet you may consult an Euler diagram to get lost
<Loading Image...>

Jan
Peter Moylan
2021-12-04 22:30:31 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
San Sebastian is the capital of a province in the Basque Country,
which is a part of Spain. The Basque Country, as a greater region,
straddles the border. Apart from the Spanish part there also is a
French part. If you are not confused yet you may consult an Euler
diagram to get lost
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png>
The 18th-century map on that site suggests that a part of the Bay of
Biscay was known as the "Merde Basque".
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-12-05 07:08:51 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
San Sebastian is the capital of a province in the Basque Country,
which is a part of Spain. The Basque Country, as a greater region,
straddles the border. Apart from the Spanish part there also is a
French part. If you are not confused yet you may consult an Euler
diagram to get lost
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png>
The 18th-century map on that site suggests that a part of the Bay of
Biscay was known as the "Merde Basque".
Are you certain that wasn't Mer de Basque? There no space between Mer and de?

bill, shit
Peter Moylan
2021-12-05 07:14:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
San Sebastian is the capital of a province in the Basque Country,
which is a part of Spain. The Basque Country, as a greater region,
straddles the border. Apart from the Spanish part there also is a
French part. If you are not confused yet you may consult an Euler
diagram to get lost
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png>
The 18th-century map on that site suggests that a part of the Bay of
Biscay was known as the "Merde Basque".
Are you certain that wasn't Mer de Basque? There no space between Mer and de?
bill, shit
No space. Check for yourself.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-12-05 07:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
San Sebastian is the capital of a province in the Basque Country,
which is a part of Spain. The Basque Country, as a greater region,
straddles the border. Apart from the Spanish part there also is a
French part. If you are not confused yet you may consult an Euler
diagram to get lost
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png>
The 18th-century map on that site suggests that a part of the Bay of
Biscay was known as the "Merde Basque".
Are you certain that wasn't Mer de Basque? There no space between Mer and de?
bill, shit
No space. Check for yourself.
I have checked for myself. Your link above leads to a slide show, and if you let the slide show run until
you get to a map, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png

you will see that "Mer de Basque" has the same space between "Mer" and "de" as it does between "de" and "Basque".
It has a hand-drawn look, but there is definitely a space.

bill
Peter Moylan
2021-12-05 09:37:58 UTC
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Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
San Sebastian is the capital of a province in the Basque
Country, which is a part of Spain. The Basque Country, as a
greater region, straddles the border. Apart from the Spanish
part there also is a French part. If you are not confused yet
you may consult an Euler diagram to get lost
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png>
The 18th-century map on that site suggests that a part of the Bay of
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Biscay was known as the "Merde Basque".
Are you certain that wasn't Mer de Basque? There no space between Mer and de?
bill, shit
No space. Check for yourself.
I have checked for myself. Your link above leads to a slide show, and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png
you will see that "Mer de Basque" has the same space between "Mer"
and "de" as it does between "de" and "Basque". It has a hand-drawn
look, but there is definitely a space.
I assume that we're both talking about the map here:

Loading Image...

It's a very close thing, but by my estimate the space between the r and
the d is smaller than the space between the M and the e.

Yes, we know what the map-maker intended, but the spacing gives the
wrong impression.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Sam Plusnet
2021-12-05 19:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
San Sebastian is the capital of a province in the Basque Country,
which is a part of Spain. The Basque Country, as a greater region,
straddles the border. Apart from the Spanish part there also is a
French part. If you are not confused yet you may consult an Euler
diagram to get lost
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)#/media/File:Basque_Country_-_Euler_diagram.png>
The 18th-century map on that site suggests that a part of the Bay of
Biscay was known as the "Merde Basque".
Word division ain't what it used to be.
Words are often the cause of division.
--
Sam Plusnet
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