Discussion:
whose car seemed to be made to break down
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Yurui Liu
2021-01-21 16:08:01 UTC
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Hi,

I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."

The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.

I'd appreciate your help.
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-21 16:30:32 UTC
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Post by Yurui Liu
Hi,
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
You can probably find sentences like that in the 19th century, and you
can probably still get away with in the "Baroque style", as one of Robertson
Davies's characters calls it. But I don't recommend it.

With "his" instead of the second "whose" it's one of those "wrong turnings",
but people get away with that all the time.

If you're interested, a better formulation might be "Though the man's car
seemed to be made to break down and his pants seemed to be made to
drop, he was a millionaire."
--
Jerry Friedman
Yurui Liu
2021-01-21 16:47:11 UTC
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Jerry Friedman 在 2021年1月22日 星期五上午12:30:34 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Yurui Liu
Hi,
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
You can probably find sentences like that in the 19th century, and you
can probably still get away with in the "Baroque style", as one of Robertson
Is it be considered "Baroque" because "whose pants to drop" were used instead
of "whose pants seem to be made to drop'?
Post by Jerry Friedman
Davies's characters calls it. But I don't recommend it.
With "his" instead of the second "whose" it's one of those "wrong turnings",
but people get away with that all the time.
Thank you. Would students lose points if they used "his" instead of "whose"
on exams?
Post by Jerry Friedman
If you're interested, a better formulation might be "Though the man's car
seemed to be made to break down and his pants seemed to be made to
drop, he was a millionaire."
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2021-01-21 20:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yurui Liu
Jerry Friedman 在 2021年1月22日 星期五上午12:30:34 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Yurui Liu
Hi,
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
You can probably find sentences like that in the 19th century, and you
can probably still get away with
them
Post by Yurui Liu
Post by Jerry Friedman
in the "Baroque style", as one of Robertson
Is it be considered "Baroque" because "whose pants to drop" were used instead
of "whose pants seem to be made to drop'?
That's probably the main part of it. The "whose... and whose..." is a bit unusual.
Post by Yurui Liu
Post by Jerry Friedman
Davies's characters calls it. But I don't recommend it.
With "his" instead of the second "whose" it's one of those "wrong turnings",
but people get away with that all the time.
Thank you. Would students lose points if they used "his" instead of "whose"
on exams?
...

Depends entirely on the teacher and the class. I can't estimate the chances.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-21 17:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yurui Liu
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
It's a zeugma. Don't do it.
Yurui Liu
2021-01-22 06:37:29 UTC
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Peter T. Daniels 在 2021年1月22日 星期五上午1:47:50 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yurui Liu
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
It's a zeugma. Don't do it.
Might I ask in what sense it is a zeugma?
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-22 15:56:50 UTC
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Post by Yurui Liu
Peter T. Daniels 在 2021年1月22日 星期五上午1:47:50 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yurui Liu
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
It's a zeugma. Don't do it.
Might I ask in what sense it is a zeugma?
You can't just arbitrarily drop out the clause-fragment "seemed to be made."
Bebercito
2021-01-22 16:58:41 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yurui Liu
Peter T. Daniels 在 2021年1月22日 星期五上午1:47:50 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yurui Liu
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
It's a zeugma. Don't do it.
Might I ask in what sense it is a zeugma?
You can't just arbitrarily drop out the clause-fragment "seemed to be made."
? That's a garden-variety ellipsis, not a zeugma.

Bebercito
2021-01-22 16:52:56 UTC
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Post by Yurui Liu
Peter T. Daniels 在 2021年1月22日 星期五上午1:47:50 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yurui Liu
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
It's a zeugma. Don't do it.
Might I ask in what sense it is a zeugma?
Not sure which version of the sentence you're asking about, but the
one with "whose" and "his" doesn't contain a zeugma, but a solecism.
Bebercito
2021-01-22 06:33:37 UTC
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Post by Yurui Liu
Hi,
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
No, the sentence would be inconsistent, but the the two "whose"s
could be replaced by "his"s:

The man, his car seemed to be made to break down, and his
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.

However, the interpolation thus obtained would be better expressed
with dashes and without the second comma:

The man - his car seemed to be made to break down and his
pants to drop - was actually a millionaire.
Post by Yurui Liu
The man, whose car seemed to be made to break down, and whose
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
I'd appreciate your help.
Mark Brader
2021-01-22 06:36:09 UTC
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Post by Bebercito
The man, his car seemed to be made to break down, and his
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
No; this is English with a French accent.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Any story that needs a critic to explain it,
***@vex.net | needs rewriting." -- Larry Niven
Yurui Liu
2021-01-22 06:40:40 UTC
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Mark Brader 在 2021年1月22日 星期五下午2:36:18 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Bebercito
The man, his car seemed to be made to break down, and his
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
No; this is English with a French accent.
What do you think of the version with one "whose" and one "his"?
Should it be avoided in educational settings?
Post by Mark Brader
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Any story that needs a critic to explain it,
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-22 15:58:44 UTC
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Post by Yurui Liu
Mark Brader 在 2021年1月22日 星期五下午2:36:18 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道:
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Bebercito
The man, his car seemed to be made to break down, and his
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
No; this is English with a French accent.
What do you think of the version with one "whose" and one "his"?
How would that fix the problem of the missing words?
Post by Yurui Liu
Should it be avoided in educational settings?
It should be avoided in English-speaking settings.

I bet you're now going to reveal that it was your rewrite of something
you read in some 18th-century source that was just fine, if archaic.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-01-22 15:55:20 UTC
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Post by Bebercito
Post by Yurui Liu
Hi,
I'd like to know if the following sentence is correct, and if the
second "whose" can be replaced by "his."
No, the sentence would be inconsistent, but the the two "whose"s
The man, his car seemed to be made to break down, and his
pants to drop, was actually a millionaire.
However, the interpolation thus obtained would be better expressed
No, the _only_ was to do it is with dashes, not commas.
Post by Bebercito
The man - his car seemed to be made to break down and his
pants to drop - was actually a millionaire.
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