Discussion:
Is a limerick a cinquain?
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Dingbat
2020-01-11 15:24:40 UTC
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There seem to be multiple meters of quatrains which must be why these
are qualified as decasyllabic
Decasyllabic quatrain used by John Dryden in Annus Mirabilis, William Davenant in Gondibert, and Thomas Gray
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatrain

There are many named kinds of cinquain, with different meters
https://www.litcharts.com/literary-devices-and-terms/cinquain

So, is a limerick a kind of cinquain? If not why not?
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-11 16:00:14 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
There seem to be multiple meters of quatrains which must be why these
are qualified as decasyllabic
Decasyllabic quatrain used by John Dryden in Annus Mirabilis, William Davenant in Gondibert, and Thomas Gray
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatrain
The more specific "heroic quatrain" or "iambic pentameter quatrain"
would be better.
Post by Dingbat
There are many named kinds of cinquain, with different meters
https://www.litcharts.com/literary-devices-and-terms/cinquain
So, is a limerick a kind of cinquain? If not why not?
Technically, yes. (Likewise a sonnet is a kind of quatorzain.)
However, it would be unusual to call it a cinquain since everyone knows
(more or less) what "limerick" means. Also, I believe, "cinquain" has
come to be associated with Adelaide Crapsey's invention that that site
calls the American cinquain, and I guess with the didactic cinquain,
which may be after my time.

Cinquains
In English verse
Were devised by a bard
Whose name (alas!) was Adelaide
Crapsey.

--John Hollander, in /Rhyme's Reason/
--
Jerry Friedman
Spains Harden
2020-01-12 15:44:17 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
There seem to be multiple meters of quatrains which must be why these
are qualified as decasyllabic
Decasyllabic quatrain used by John Dryden in Annus Mirabilis, William Davenant in Gondibert, and Thomas Gray
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatrain
The more specific "heroic quatrain" or "iambic pentameter quatrain"
would be better.
Post by Dingbat
There are many named kinds of cinquain, with different meters
https://www.litcharts.com/literary-devices-and-terms/cinquain
So, is a limerick a kind of cinquain? If not why not?
Technically, yes. (Likewise a sonnet is a kind of quatorzain.)
However, it would be unusual to call it a cinquain since everyone knows
(more or less) what "limerick" means. Also, I believe, "cinquain" has
come to be associated with Adelaide Crapsey's invention that that site
calls the American cinquain, and I guess with the didactic cinquain,
which may be after my time.
Cinquains
In English verse
Were devised by a bard
Whose name (alas!) was Adelaide
Crapsey.
--John Hollander, in /Rhyme's Reason/
Re Crapsey: I have got Henry Moule and Thomas Crapper muddled together,
so I apologise to both of them posthumously.

"The word 'crap' is...of Middle English origin and predates its application
to bodily waste. Its most likely etymological origin is a combination of
two older words: the Dutch krappen (to pluck off, cut off, or separate)
and the Old French crappe (siftings, waste or rejected matter, from the
medieval Latin crappa). In English, it was used to refer to chaff and also
to weeds or other rubbish. Its first application to bodily waste, according
to the Oxford English Dictionary, appeared in 1846, 10 years after Crapper
was born, under a reference to a crapping ken, or a privy, where ken means
a house.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Crapper>

D'ye ken John Peel?
RH Draney
2020-01-12 20:33:44 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
"The word 'crap' is...of Middle English origin and predates its application
to bodily waste. Its most likely etymological origin is a combination of
two older words: the Dutch krappen (to pluck off, cut off, or separate)
and the Old French crappe (siftings, waste or rejected matter, from the
medieval Latin crappa). In English, it was used to refer to chaff and also
to weeds or other rubbish. Its first application to bodily waste, according
to the Oxford English Dictionary, appeared in 1846, 10 years after Crapper
was born, under a reference to a crapping ken, or a privy, where ken means
a house.
When did it come to mean a throw of two, three or twelve at dice?...r
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 00:50:36 UTC
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On 1/12/20 1:33 PM, RH Draney wrote:

[crap]
Post by RH Draney
When did it come to mean a throw of two, three or twelve at dice?...r
The first citation in the OED is from 1909, but note the previous citation.

"1890 J. P. Quinn /Fools of Fortune/ 277 The numbers 7 and 11 are
called 'craps'.
"1909 /Webster's New Internat. Dict. Eng. Lang./ (at cited word) The
caster..loses if it [sc. his throw] is 2, 3, or 12 (called a crap)."

The first citation as the name of a game is from 1843.

Since you didn't ask about the etymology:

"Etymology: Of obscure origin, but compare crabs , CRAB n.1 9."

Crab n.1 9. is "9. /plural. slang./ The lowest throw at hazard,
two aces. */to come off, turn out crabs:/* to turn out a failure
or disappointment. [This may belong to CRAB n.2]"

CRAB n.1 is the crustacean. In case it belongs to CRAB n.2, that's the
apple--another word of obscure origin, possibly connected to the crustacean.
--
Jerry Friedman
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