Discussion:
Math and Shoelaces
(too old to reply)
Jack
2020-01-03 17:23:27 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 12:09:17 -0500, Tony Cooper
After tripping over a shoelace that came untied, this article makes me
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-mathematical-stability.html
That problem was solved in the 1950s:
https://tinyurl.com/skze4us
but the lace cartel suppressed the invention.
b***@aol.com
2020-01-03 17:31:24 UTC
Permalink
After tripping over a shoelace that came untied, this article makes me
But does the above sentence make you wonder about the danger of dangling
modifiers?
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-mathematical-stability.html
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
b***@aol.com
2020-01-03 18:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
After tripping over a shoelace that came untied, this article makes me
But does the above sentence make you wonder about the danger of dangling
modifiers?
Dangling modifiers are knot a danger to me.
My posts are often laced with grammatical errors, and bringing that to
my attention will not shoe me off. Tongues may wag, and I aglet
anyone to try to bring me to heel.
Not to jump down your throat or vamp up an excuse, but you gave no
quarter and eyelet you know that engaging in a toe-to-toe battle with
you is my sole recourse to counter you. I hope that won't make you
hot under the collar.
Post by b***@aol.com
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-mathematical-stability.html
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Anton Shepelev
2020-01-03 18:44:33 UTC
Permalink
But does the above sentence make you wonder about
the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about the
danger of confusing adjectives with prepositions?
--
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b***@aol.com
2020-01-03 19:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anton Shepelev
But does the above sentence make you wonder about
the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about the
danger of confusing adjectives with prepositions?
What do adjectives have to do with this? "After tripping over a shoelace
that came untied" is a prepositional phrase and indeed constitutes a
dangling modifier in the sentence. Where does the shoe pinch?
Post by Anton Shepelev
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Quinn C
2020-01-03 19:23:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
But does the above sentence make you wonder about
the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about the
danger of confusing adjectives with prepositions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
Above all, I think Anton is concerned about the placement of certain
adjectives.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
Anton Shepelev
2020-01-03 19:30:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
Post by b***@aol.com
"After tripping over a shoelace that came untied"
is a prepositional phrase and indeed constitutes a
dangling modifier in the sentence.
I agree that Tony's sentence has a dangligh modifi-
er, which is a structural defect.
--
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b***@aol.com
2020-01-03 20:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
I see, but it seems you in turn are confusing a preposition with an
adverb, as in your sentence "Does the question above...", "above" is
an adverb.

In any event, the use of "above" as an adjective is listed by
several dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge
Dictionary.
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
"After tripping over a shoelace that came untied"
is a prepositional phrase and indeed constitutes a
dangling modifier in the sentence.
I agree that Tony's sentence has a dangligh modifi-
er, which is a structural defect.
--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]
David Kleinecke
2020-01-03 20:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
I see, but it seems you in turn are confusing a preposition with an
adverb, as in your sentence "Does the question above...", "above" is
an adverb.
In any event, the use of "above" as an adjective is listed by
several dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge
Dictionary.
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
"After tripping over a shoelace that came untied"
is a prepositional phrase and indeed constitutes a
dangling modifier in the sentence.
I agree that Tony's sentence has a dangligh modifi-
er, which is a structural defect.
IMO "question above" is a reduced version of "question [that
is posed] above" with lots of possible variants for the words
in []. I would call it a locative and I think school grammar
would call it an adverb.
Jack
2020-01-03 21:45:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
I see, but it seems you in turn are confusing a preposition with an
adverb, as in your sentence "Does the question above...", "above" is
an adverb.
I believe that's a postpositioned adjective. Heavens above!
Post by b***@aol.com
In any event, the use of "above" as an adjective is listed by
several dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge
Dictionary.
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
"After tripping over a shoelace that came untied"
is a prepositional phrase and indeed constitutes a
dangling modifier in the sentence.
I agree that Tony's sentence has a dangligh modifi-
er, which is a structural defect.
--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-03 21:54:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
I see, but it seems you in turn are confusing a preposition with an
adverb, as in your sentence "Does the question above...", "above" is
an adverb.
In any event, the use of "above" as an adjective is listed by
several dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge
Dictionary.
All of which shows the uselessness of the Latinate notion of "part of
speech" with reference to English grammar. It's about as useful for
English as it is for Chinese.
b***@aol.com
2020-01-03 23:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
I see, but it seems you in turn are confusing a preposition with an
adverb, as in your sentence "Does the question above...", "above" is
an adverb.
In any event, the use of "above" as an adjective is listed by
several dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge
Dictionary.
All of which shows the uselessness of the Latinate notion of "part of
speech" with reference to English grammar. It's about as useful for
English as it is for Chinese.
?? It shows the opposite, IMO, as precisely the discussion has focused
on which part of speech "above" is in an English sentence.
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-03 23:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
I see, but it seems you in turn are confusing a preposition with an
adverb, as in your sentence "Does the question above...", "above" is
an adverb.
In any event, the use of "above" as an adjective is listed by
several dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge
Dictionary.
All of which shows the uselessness of the Latinate notion of "part of
speech" with reference to English grammar. It's about as useful for
English as it is for Chinese.
?? It shows the opposite, IMO, as precisely the discussion has focused
on which part of speech "above" is in an English sentence.
An utterly pointless question, unless you have criteria for assigning
words to "parts of speech," and you don't. No one does. Things that go
X Xes X's Xes' are nouns, X Xs Xed Xing Xen are verbs, and X Xer Xest
are adjectives; but an awful lot of words don't fall into any of those
inflection patterns and so can't be assigned even to that not-too-useful
scheme.
b***@aol.com
2020-01-04 00:05:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition, whereas you used it as an adjective.
I see, but it seems you in turn are confusing a preposition with an
adverb, as in your sentence "Does the question above...", "above" is
an adverb.
In any event, the use of "above" as an adjective is listed by
several dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge
Dictionary.
All of which shows the uselessness of the Latinate notion of "part of
speech" with reference to English grammar. It's about as useful for
English as it is for Chinese.
?? It shows the opposite, IMO, as precisely the discussion has focused
on which part of speech "above" is in an English sentence.
An utterly pointless question, unless you have criteria for assigning
words to "parts of speech," and you don't. No one does.
?? Of course, there are criteria. For instance, in the case at hand,
as a preposition requires an object and an adverb doesn't, "above" can
be a preposition or an adverb depending on the syntax of the sentence.
And, again, that is _exactly like Latin_, as "super" (Latin for above)
can also be a preposition or an adverb depending on the syntax.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Things that go
X Xes X's Xes' are nouns, X Xs Xed Xing Xen are verbs, and X Xer Xest
are adjectives; but an awful lot of words don't fall into any of those
inflection patterns and so can't be assigned even to that not-too-useful
scheme.
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-03 21:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition,
It can be (probably most often),
Post by Anton Shepelev
whereas you used it as an adjective.
as is perfectly normal,

and so is its use as an adverb.
Quinn C
2020-01-03 22:48:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition,
It can be (probably most often),
Post by Anton Shepelev
whereas you used it as an adjective.
as is perfectly normal,
and so is its use as an adverb.
But "the above sentence" is slightly marked compared to "the sentence
above", isn't it?

However, there's no garden-pathing because of the determiner -
the+Adj+N is much more likely than the+Prep+N. That's what Anton might
want to practice.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-03 23:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Anton Shepelev
Post by b***@aol.com
But does the above sentence make you wonder
about the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about
the danger of confusing adjectives with preposi-
tions?
What do adjectives have to do with this?
I was referring to your question. `above' is a
preposition,
It can be (probably most often),
Post by Anton Shepelev
whereas you used it as an adjective.
as is perfectly normal,
and so is its use as an adverb.
But "the above sentence" is slightly marked compared to "the sentence
above", isn't it?
Equally marked: "above" is jargon to sound "scientific." "That sentence"
would have been perfectly clear.
Post by Quinn C
However, there's no garden-pathing because of the determiner -
the+Adj+N is much more likely than the+Prep+N. That's what Anton might
want to practice.
Can you come up with a credible sentence with the+Prep+ ? (In English.
It's normal in German.)
Quinn C
2020-01-03 22:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
But does the above sentence make you wonder about
the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about the
danger of confusing adjectives with prepositions?
What do adjectives have to do with this? "After tripping over a shoelace
that came untied" is a prepositional phrase and indeed constitutes a
dangling modifier in the sentence.
Interestingly, that doesn't bother me at all. But I was momentarily
confused which "if" is missing in the rest of Tony's sentence:

| ... this article makes me
| wonder if I was better at math I could avoid this danger:

It should be:
... wonder if if I was better at math I could avoid this danger.

Or better:
... wonder whether if I was better at math I could avoid this danger.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
b***@aol.com
2020-01-03 23:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Anton Shepelev
But does the above sentence make you wonder about
the danger of dangling modifiers?
Does the question above make you wonder about the
danger of confusing adjectives with prepositions?
What do adjectives have to do with this? "After tripping over a shoelace
that came untied" is a prepositional phrase and indeed constitutes a
dangling modifier in the sentence.
Interestingly, that doesn't bother me at all. But I was momentarily
| ... this article makes me
... wonder if if I was better at math I could avoid this danger.
... wonder whether if I was better at math I could avoid this danger.
Or, to avoid the awkwardness of a dual-conjunction construction:

... wonder, were I better at math, I could avoid this danger.
Post by Quinn C
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-03 23:43:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Quinn C
Interestingly, that doesn't bother me at all. But I was momentarily
| ... this article makes me
... wonder if if I was better at math I could avoid this danger.
... wonder whether if I was better at math I could avoid this danger.
... wonder, were I better at math, I could avoid this danger.
Nope, not in the 21st century. You might find it in Austen.
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