Discussion:
Gulliver's Travels questions - final list
(too old to reply)
p***@gmail.com
2019-11-29 02:46:24 UTC
Permalink
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?

1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?

2. "... their excellencies, who were privately told how much I had been their
friend, made me a visit in form."
'visit in form'?

3. "Ingratitude is, among them, a capital crime, as we read it to have been
in some other countries; for they reason thus, that whoever makes ill
returns to his benefactor,..."
'ill returns'?

4. "I answered I was an Englishman, drawn by ill fortune into the greatest calamity that ever any creature underwent, and begged by all that was moving to be delivered out of the dungeon I was in."
'by all that was moving'?

5. "My answer was, that I thought we were already overstocked with books
of travels; that nothing could now pass which was not extraordinary; wherein
I doubted some authors less consulted truth than their own vanity, or interest,
or the diversion of ignorant readers,..."

'some authors less consulted truth than their own vanity'?
If some authors believe that they are important, they didn't try to verify their writing?

6. "I could force nothing upon him but a footman's tooth, which I observed
him to examine with great curiosity, and found he had a fancy for it."
'a footman's tooth'?

7. "I winked at my own littleness, as people do at their own faults.
The captain understood my raillery very well, and merrily replied that
he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had fasted all day;"

'he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had fasted all day;'
Even though I had fasted all day, he was still able to see my stomach some?

8. "But constancy, chastity, good sense, and good nature, were not rated, because they would not bear the charge of collecting."
'bear the charge of collecting'?

9. "I observed, with much pleasure, that these two persons were in good intelligence with each other;"
'good intelligence with each other'?

10. "Three kings protested to me, that in their whole reigns they never did
once prefer any person of merit, unless by mistake, or treachery of some minister in whom they confided;"
'unless by mistake, or treachery of some minister in whom they confided'?

11. "...and have some of them always at my table; only mingling
a few of the most valuable among you mortals, whom length of time would harden me to lose with little or no reluctance,..."
'whom length of time would harden me to lose'?

12. "he was desired by the rest to set me right in a few mistakes, which I had
fallen into through the common imbecility of human nature, and upon that allowance was less answerable for them."
'and upon that allowance was less answerable for them'?

13. "And therefore I have but two methods to preserve my cow. The first is, to gain over my adversary’s lawyer with a double fee, who will then betray his client by insinuating that he hath justice on his side. The second way is for my lawyer to make my cause appear as unjust as he can, by allowing the cow to belong to my adversary: and this, if it be skillfully done, will certainly bespeak the favor of the bench."

By the second method, does he imply that the bench would decide that my lawyer
is not working for my best interests and, therefore, dismiss the case, so I can keep my cow?

14. "Now your honor is to know, that these judges are persons appointed to decide all controversies of property, as well as for the trial of criminals, and picked out from the most dexterous lawyers, who are grown old or lazy; and having been biased all their lives against truth and equity, lie under such a fatal necessity of favoring fraud, perjury, and oppression, that I have known some of them refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than injure the faculty, by doing anything unbecoming their nature or their office."

'refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than injure the faculty,'?

15. "after which they consult precedents, adjourn the cause from time to time, and in ten, twenty, or thirty years, come to an issue."
Does 'come to an issue' mean returning a verdict?

Thank you very, very much!
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-29 03:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
That meant "fourfold", according to the OED, but I still don't get it.
Post by p***@gmail.com
2. "... their excellencies, who were privately told how much I had been their
friend, made me a visit in form."
'visit in form'?
"In form" meant "in due or proper form" (OED).
Post by p***@gmail.com
3. "Ingratitude is, among them, a capital crime, as we read it to have been
in some other countries; for they reason thus, that whoever makes ill
returns to his benefactor,..."
'ill returns'?
A bad recompense.
Post by p***@gmail.com
4. "I answered I was an Englishman, drawn by ill fortune into the greatest calamity that ever any creature underwent, and begged by all that was moving to be delivered out of the dungeon I was in."
'by all that was moving'?
I assume "by everything that was emotionally touching".
Post by p***@gmail.com
5. "My answer was, that I thought we were already overstocked with books
of travels; that nothing could now pass which was not extraordinary; wherein
I doubted some authors less consulted truth than their own vanity, or interest,
or the diversion of ignorant readers,..."
'some authors less consulted truth than their own vanity'?
If some authors believe that they are important, they didn't try to verify their writing?
They're vain, which leads them to be careless with the truth.
Post by p***@gmail.com
6. "I could force nothing upon him but a footman's tooth, which I observed
him to examine with great curiosity, and found he had a fancy for it."
'a footman's tooth'?
Literally the tooth of a servant. The captain finds it interesting
because it's so big.
Post by p***@gmail.com
7. "I winked at my own littleness, as people do at their own faults.
The captain understood my raillery very well, and merrily replied that
he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had fasted all day;"
'he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had fasted all day;'
Even though I had fasted all day, he was still able to see my stomach some?
The version I'm looking at goes "...my raillery pretty well, and merrily
replied with the old English proverb, that he doubted my eyes were
bigger than my belly, for he did not observe..."

That helps. "He did not observe that my stomach was in good condition
(because I wasn't eating much), although I had fasted all day.
Post by p***@gmail.com
8. "But constancy, chastity, good sense, and good nature, were not rated, because they would not bear the charge of collecting."
'bear the charge of collecting'?
They were so rare that the tax on them wouldn't be worth the expense of
collecting it.

I just found a version that translates it into "plain and simple
English", with each paragraph of the original followed by the translation.

https://books.google.com/books?id=kQ2tAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT303

So from here on I'm just going to guess.
Post by p***@gmail.com
9. "I observed, with much pleasure, that these two persons were in good intelligence with each other;"
'good intelligence with each other'?
In good communication, so each knew what the other did?
Post by p***@gmail.com
10. "Three kings protested to me, that in their whole reigns they never did
once prefer any person of merit, unless by mistake, or treachery of some minister in whom they confided;"
'unless by mistake, or treachery of some minister in whom they confided'?
They never promoted anyone who deserved it unless it was by mistake or
some minister had tricked them. (Normally they only gave high positions
to the undeserving).
Post by p***@gmail.com
11. "...and have some of them always at my table; only mingling
a few of the most valuable among you mortals, whom length of time would harden me to lose with little or no reluctance,..."
'whom length of time would harden me to lose'?
After a long time with the mortals, I would be so hardened that I could
lose them without much reluctance.
Post by p***@gmail.com
12. "he was desired by the rest to set me right in a few mistakes, which I had
fallen into through the common imbecility of human nature, and upon that allowance was less answerable for them."
'and upon that allowance was less answerable for them'?
I was less guilty because my mistakes were typical of human beings.
Post by p***@gmail.com
13. "And therefore I have but two methods to preserve my cow. The first is, to gain over my adversary’s lawyer with a double fee, who will then betray his client by insinuating that he hath justice on his side. The second way is for my lawyer to make my cause appear as unjust as he can, by allowing the cow to belong to my adversary: and this, if it be skillfully done, will certainly bespeak the favor of the bench."
By the second method, does he imply that the bench would decide that my lawyer
is not working for my best interests and, therefore, dismiss the case, so I can keep my cow?
I think it's explained by your next excerpt. The judges are so corrupt
that they always find for the side with the worse case.
Post by p***@gmail.com
14. "Now your honor is to know, that these judges are persons appointed to decide all controversies of property, as well as for the trial of criminals, and picked out from the most dexterous lawyers, who are grown old or lazy; and having been biased all their lives against truth and equity, lie under such a fatal necessity of favoring fraud, perjury, and oppression, that I have known some of them refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than injure the faculty, by doing anything unbecoming their nature or their office."
'refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than injure the faculty,'?
They won't give a just verdict, and their principle is so strong that
they'll even refuse a bribe by the side that justice is on, because the
alternative would be to injure lawyers as a profession.
Post by p***@gmail.com
15. "after which they consult precedents, adjourn the cause from time to time, and in ten, twenty, or thirty years, come to an issue."
Does 'come to an issue' mean returning a verdict?
Yes. "Issue" meant "outcome". As a verb is still means "go out".
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2019-11-29 14:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin
Classics Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do
you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up
the breadth and length; and these were four double,..." 'four
double'?
That meant "fourfold", according to the OED, but I still don't get it.
Each of the "beds" was four mattresses thick?
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
2. "... their excellencies, who were privately told how much I had
been their friend, made me a visit in form." 'visit in form'?
"In form" meant "in due or proper form" (OED).
Post by p***@gmail.com
3. "Ingratitude is, among them, a capital crime, as we read it to
have been in some other countries; for they reason thus, that
whoever makes ill returns to his benefactor,..." 'ill returns'?
A bad recompense.
Post by p***@gmail.com
4. "I answered I was an Englishman, drawn by ill fortune into the
greatest calamity that ever any creature underwent, and begged by
all that was moving to be delivered out of the dungeon I was in."
'by all that was moving'?
I assume "by everything that was emotionally touching".
Yes, in the name of whatever would move them to pity.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
5. "My answer was, that I thought we were already overstocked with
books of travels; that nothing could now pass which was not
extraordinary; wherein I doubted some authors less consulted truth
than their own vanity, or interest, or the diversion of ignorant
readers,..."
"I thought...", as below.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
'some authors less consulted truth than their own vanity'? If some
authors believe that they are important, they didn't try to verify
their writing?
They're vain, which leads them to be careless with the truth.
In their accounts they paid no attention to the truth, but wrote
whatever would flatter them or bring them advantage, or interest the
ignorant (and therefore sell more books).
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
6. "I could force nothing upon him but a footman's tooth, which I
observed him to examine with great curiosity, and found he had a
fancy for it." 'a footman's tooth'?
Literally the tooth of a servant. The captain finds it interesting
because it's so big.
The explanatory text shows that the tooth had belonged to
Glumdalclitch's footman.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
7. "I winked at my own littleness, as people do at their own
faults. The captain understood my raillery very well, and merrily
replied that he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had
fasted all day;"
'he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had fasted all
day;' Even though I had fasted all day, he was still able to see
my stomach some?
He agreed in jest that Gulliver's stomach was small, although that might
be because he had not eaten. Presumably Gulliver was still applying
Brobdingnagian standards to himself at the time.

I have now looked at the text you linked to, and confirmed that G had
only lately left Glumdalclitch's side.
Post by Jerry Friedman
The version I'm looking at goes "...my raillery pretty well, and
merrily replied with the old English proverb, that he doubted my
eyes were bigger than my belly, for he did not observe..."
"Doubted", there, is probably "thought", not "thought not".
Post by Jerry Friedman
That helps. "He did not observe that my stomach was in good
condition (because I wasn't eating much), although I had fasted all
day.
That doesn't seem related to the question of G's "small" size. The
captain, going along with the presumed joke, said he thought
my eyes must be bigger than my stomach, since he could not see my
stomach as well as my eyes (although that might be from hunger)?
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
8. "But constancy, chastity, good sense, and good nature, were not
rated, because they would not bear the charge of collecting." 'bear
the charge of collecting'?
They were so rare that the tax on them wouldn't be worth the expense
of collecting it.
I just found a version that translates it into "plain and simple
English", with each paragraph of the original followed by the
translation.
https://books.google.com/books?id=kQ2tAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT303
So from here on I'm just going to guess.
Post by p***@gmail.com
9. "I observed, with much pleasure, that these two persons were in
good intelligence with each other;" 'good intelligence with each
other'?
In good communication, so each knew what the other did?
Or thought and felt?
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
10. "Three kings protested to me, that in their whole reigns they
never did once prefer any person of merit, unless by mistake, or
treachery of some minister in whom they confided;" 'unless by
mistake, or treachery of some minister in whom they confided'?
They never promoted anyone who deserved it unless it was by mistake
or some minister had tricked them. (Normally they only gave high
positions to the undeserving).
Post by p***@gmail.com
11. "...and have some of them always at my table; only mingling a
few of the most valuable among you mortals, whom length of time
would harden me to lose with little or no reluctance,..." 'whom
length of time would harden me to lose'?
After a long time with the mortals, I would be so hardened that I
could lose them without much reluctance.
Post by p***@gmail.com
12. "he was desired by the rest to set me right in a few mistakes,
which I had fallen into through the common imbecility of human
nature, and upon that allowance was less answerable for them."
'and upon that allowance was less answerable for them'?
I was less guilty because my mistakes were typical of human beings,
Or "Yahoos", as they were known to the Houyhnhnms.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
13. "And therefore I have but two methods to preserve my cow. The
first is, to gain over my adversary’s lawyer with a double fee, who
will then betray his client by insinuating that he hath justice on
his side. The second way is for my lawyer to make my cause appear
and this, if it be skillfully done, will certainly bespeak the
favor of the bench."
By the second method, does he imply that the bench would decide
that my lawyer is not working for my best interests and,
therefore, dismiss the case, so I can keep my cow?
I think it's explained by your next excerpt. The judges are so
corrupt that they always find for the side with the worse case.
Or so perverse.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
14. "Now your honor is to know, that these judges are persons
appointed to decide all controversies of property, as well as for
the trial of criminals, and picked out from the most dexterous
lawyers, who are grown old or lazy; and having been biased all
their lives against truth and equity, lie under such a fatal
necessity of favoring fraud, perjury, and oppression, that I have
known some of them refuse a large bribe from the side where
justice lay, rather than injure the faculty, by doing anything
unbecoming their nature or their office."
'refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than injure the faculty,'?
They won't give a just verdict, and their principle is so strong
that they'll even refuse a bribe by the side that justice is on,
because the alternative would be to injure lawyers as a profession.
That speaks more of perversity than corruption, in connection with 13.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
15. "after which they consult precedents, adjourn the cause from
time to time, and in ten, twenty, or thirty years, come to an
issue." Does 'come to an issue' mean returning a verdict?
Yes. "Issue" meant "outcome". As a verb is still means "go out".
All praise to Jerry for taking that on. I was going to pass by on the
other side, until I saw that he had commented.
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-29 17:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..." 'four double'?
That meant "fourfold", according to the OED, but I still don't get it.
Each of the "beds" was four mattresses thick?
Apparently so, as Horace pointed out too.

...
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
5. "My answer was, that I thought we were already overstocked with
books of travels; that nothing could now pass which was not
extraordinary; wherein I doubted some authors less consulted truth
than their own vanity, or interest, or the diversion of ignorant
readers,..."
"I thought...", as below.
Or "I suspected".
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
'some authors less consulted truth than their own vanity'? If some
authors believe that they are important, they didn't try to verify
their writing?
They're vain, which leads them to be careless with the truth.
whatever would flatter them or bring them advantage, or interest the
ignorant (and therefore sell more books).
...
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
7. "I winked at my own littleness, as people do at their own faults.
The captain understood my raillery very well, and merrily replied
that he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had fasted all
day;"
'he did not observe my stomach so good, although I had fasted all
day;' Even though I had fasted all day, he was still able to see
my stomach some?
He agreed in jest that Gulliver's stomach was small, although that might
be because he had not eaten.  Presumably Gulliver was still applying
Brobdingnagian standards to himself at the time.
I have now looked at the text you linked to, and confirmed that G had
only lately left Glumdalclitch's side.
Post by Jerry Friedman
The version I'm looking at goes "...my raillery pretty well, and
merrily replied with the old English proverb, that he doubted my
eyes were bigger than my belly, for he did not observe..."
Sorry, "mine eyes".
Post by CDB
"Doubted", there, is probably "thought", not "thought not".
Post by Jerry Friedman
That helps.  "He did not observe that my stomach was in good condition
(because I wasn't eating much), although I had fasted all day.
That doesn't seem related to the question of G's "small" size.  The
captain, going along with the presumed joke, said he thought
my eyes must be bigger than my stomach, since he could not see my
stomach as well as my eyes (although that might be from hunger)?
...

I still think "observe my stomach so good" means "observe my stomach to
be good", though the proverb about the size of a stomach leads the
captain to that comparison.
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
I just found a version that translates it into "plain and simple
English", with each paragraph of the original followed by the
translation.
https://books.google.com/books?id=kQ2tAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT303
So from here on I'm just going to guess.
Post by p***@gmail.com
9. "I observed, with much pleasure, that these two persons were in
good intelligence with each other;" 'good intelligence with each other'?
In good communication, so each knew what the other did?
Or thought and felt?
The modernization I mentioned says Caesar and Brutus were "on good terms".

...
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
13. "And therefore I have but two methods to preserve my cow.  The
first is, to gain over my adversary’s lawyer with a double fee, who
will then betray his client by insinuating that he hath justice on
his side.  The second way is for my lawyer to make my cause appear
and this, if it be skillfully done, will certainly bespeak the
favor of the bench."
By the second method, does he imply that the bench would decide that
my lawyer is not working for my best interests and,
therefore, dismiss the case, so I can keep my cow?
I think it's explained by your next excerpt.  The judges are so
corrupt that they always find for the side with the worse case.
Or so perverse.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
14. "Now your honor is to know, that these judges are persons
appointed to decide all controversies of property, as well as for the
trial of criminals, and picked out from the most dexterous lawyers,
who are grown old or lazy; and having been biased all their lives
against truth and equity, lie under such a fatal necessity of
favoring fraud, perjury, and oppression, that I have known some of
them refuse a large bribe from the side where
justice lay, rather than injure the faculty, by doing anything
unbecoming their nature or their office."
'refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than
injure the faculty,'?
They won't give a just verdict, and their principle is so strong
that they'll even refuse a bribe by the side that justice is on,
because the alternative would be to injure lawyers as a profession.
That speaks more of perversity than corruption, in connection with 13.
...

The perversity apparently comes from being used to corruption.
--
Jerry Friedman
s***@gmail.com
2019-11-30 07:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
That helps.  "He did not observe that my stomach was in good condition
(because I wasn't eating much), although I had fasted all day.
That doesn't seem related to the question of G's "small" size.  The
captain, going along with the presumed joke, said he thought
my eyes must be bigger than my stomach, since he could not see my
stomach as well as my eyes (although that might be from hunger)?
...
I still think "observe my stomach so good" means "observe my stomach to
be good", though the proverb about the size of a stomach leads the
captain to that comparison.
Not at all on topic, but yet ...

<URL:https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2017/07/12>

/dps
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-29 17:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by p***@gmail.com
4. "I answered I was an Englishman, drawn by ill fortune into the greatest calamity that ever any creature underwent, and begged by all that was moving to be delivered out of the dungeon I was in."
'by all that was moving'?
I assume "by everything that was emotionally touching".
I think rather, a euphemism for "by God," or by something flowery like
"by all the Hosts of Heaven," which it probably would have been blasphemous
to put into print at the time.
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-29 12:56:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es
Peter Moylan
2019-11-29 13:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were
published?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-29 14:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the other day. It had the
same kind of language.
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-29 17:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the
other day. It had the same kind of language.
I replied to the Houyhnhnm, that few us now go on horseback, for we sit
on contrivances with wheels that we guide with pedals and levers, for
they are insensible to pain, and they take no feed but a distillate of
rock-oil. As my master questioned me further, I perforce confessed that
the hinder ends of these contrivances emit both noise and stench like
the hinder ends of our horses when they have eaten ill provender (for to
respect the delicacy of my master I used no harsher word), but without
surcease, and the more offensive from the smaller ones that have only
two wheels. Moreover we drive these machines so furiously that at
whiles they collide, and when the two-wheeled ones collide the injuries
are the most frightful, notwithstanding which many of their drivers are
the most reckless of all, as if they set but little value on their
lives. At this my master forebore to speak, but only gave a nod; which I
read as plainly as words, that he was entirely of their opinion.
--
Jerry Friedman
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-29 17:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the
other day. It had the same kind of language.
I replied to the Houyhnhnm, that few us now go on horseback, for we sit
on contrivances with wheels that we guide with pedals and levers, for
they are insensible to pain, and they take no feed but a distillate of
rock-oil.  As my master questioned me further, I perforce confessed that
the hinder ends of these contrivances emit both noise and stench like
the hinder ends of our horses when they have eaten ill provender (for to
respect the delicacy of my master I used no harsher word), but without
surcease, and the more offensive from the smaller ones that have only
two wheels.  Moreover we drive these machines so furiously that at
whiles they collide, and when the two-wheeled ones collide the injuries
are the most frightful, notwithstanding which many of their drivers are
the most reckless of all, as if they set but little value on their
lives. At this my master forebore to speak, but only gave a nod; which I
read as plainly as words, that he was entirely of their opinion.
*applause*

Beautifully crafted.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Katy Jennison
2019-11-29 17:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the
other day. It had the same kind of language.
I replied to the Houyhnhnm, that few us now go on horseback, for we
sit on contrivances with wheels that we guide with pedals and levers,
for they are insensible to pain, and they take no feed but a
distillate of rock-oil.  As my master questioned me further, I
perforce confessed that the hinder ends of these contrivances emit
both noise and stench like the hinder ends of our horses when they
have eaten ill provender (for to respect the delicacy of my master I
used no harsher word), but without surcease, and the more offensive
from the smaller ones that have only two wheels.  Moreover we drive
these machines so furiously that at whiles they collide, and when the
two-wheeled ones collide the injuries are the most frightful,
notwithstanding which many of their drivers are the most reckless of
all, as if they set but little value on their lives. At this my master
forebore to speak, but only gave a nod; which I read as plainly as
words, that he was entirely of their opinion.
*applause*
Beautifully crafted.
Hear hear!
--
Katy Jennison
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-29 17:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the
other day. It had the same kind of language.
I replied to the Houyhnhnm, that few us now go on horseback, for we sit
on contrivances with wheels that we guide with pedals and levers, for
they are insensible to pain, and they take no feed but a distillate of
rock-oil.  As my master questioned me further, I perforce confessed
that the hinder ends of these contrivances emit both noise and stench
like the hinder ends of our horses when they have eaten ill provender
(for to respect the delicacy of my master I used no harsher word), but
without surcease, and the more offensive from the smaller ones that
have only two wheels.  Moreover we drive these machines so furiously
that at whiles they collide, and when the two-wheeled ones collide the
injuries are the most frightful, notwithstanding which many of their
drivers are the most reckless of all, as if they set but little value
on their lives. At this my master forebore to speak, but only gave a
nod; which I read as plainly as words, that he was entirely of their
opinion.
*applause*
Beautifully crafted.
Seconded. "Contrivance" is not a word I use in my everyday discourse,
but it fits perfectly.
--
athel
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-29 19:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the
other day. It had the same kind of language.
I replied to the Houyhnhnm, that few us now go on horseback, for we
sit on contrivances with wheels that we guide with pedals and levers,
for they are insensible to pain, and they take no feed but a
distillate of rock-oil.  As my master questioned me further, I
perforce confessed that the hinder ends of these contrivances emit
both noise and stench like the hinder ends of our horses when they
have eaten ill provender (for to respect the delicacy of my master I
used no harsher word), but without surcease, and the more offensive
from the smaller ones that have only two wheels.  Moreover we drive
these machines so furiously that at whiles they collide, and when the
two-wheeled ones collide the injuries are the most frightful,
notwithstanding which many of their drivers are the most reckless of
all, as if they set but little value on their lives. At this my
master forebore to speak, but only gave a nod; which I read as
plainly as words, that he was entirely of their opinion.
*applause*
Beautifully crafted.
Seconded. "Contrivance" is not a word I use in my everyday discourse,
but it fits perfectly.
Thanks to Katy, Richard, and you!
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-29 19:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Carmichael
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the
other day. It had the same kind of language.
I replied to the Houyhnhnm, that few us now go on horseback, for we sit
on contrivances with wheels that we guide with pedals and levers, for
they are insensible to pain, and they take no feed but a distillate of
rock-oil.  As my master questioned me further, I perforce confessed that
the hinder ends of these contrivances emit both noise and stench like
the hinder ends of our horses when they have eaten ill provender (for to
respect the delicacy of my master I used no harsher word), but without
surcease, and the more offensive from the smaller ones that have only
two wheels.  Moreover we drive these machines so furiously that at
whiles they collide, and when the two-wheeled ones collide the injuries
are the most frightful, notwithstanding which many of their drivers are
the most reckless of all, as if they set but little value on their
lives. At this my master forebore to speak, but only gave a nod; which I
read as plainly as words, that he was entirely of their opinion.
YA Dean Swift AICM£5
--
Sam Plusnet
CDB
2019-11-30 19:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin
Classics Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What
do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together,
made up the breadth and length; and these were four
double,..." 'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred
(singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the
other day. It had the same kind of language.
I replied to the Houyhnhnm, that few us now go on horseback, for we
sit on contrivances with wheels that we guide with pedals and levers,
for they are insensible to pain, and they take no feed but a
distillate of rock-oil. As my master questioned me further, I
perforce confessed that the hinder ends of these contrivances emit
both noise and stench like the hinder ends of our horses when they
have eaten ill provender (for to respect the delicacy of my master I
used no harsher word), but without surcease, and the more offensive
from the smaller ones that have only two wheels. Moreover we drive
these machines so furiously that at whiles they collide, and when the
two-wheeled ones collide the injuries are the most frightful,
notwithstanding which many of their drivers are the most reckless of
all, as if they set but little value on their lives. At this my
master forebore to speak, but only gave a nod; which I read as
plainly as words, that he was entirely of their opinion.
I hope to be around for the book-length version.
Spains Harden
2019-11-30 15:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by p***@gmail.com
The final list of expressions from Gulliver's Travels(Puffin Classics
Edition) that I don't quite understand follows. What do you make of them?
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the
breadth and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
"an hundred"? Who doesn't pronounce the h in hundred (singular)?
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were published?
Spose you're right. I was browsing a 1958 BSA motorcycle manual the other day. It had the
same kind of language.
Some of us here had our manuals written in 1958, so: "an hotel" as an
honest example.

The reverse occurs in Estuary - where h's are normally dropped.
We say "an aitch"; they emphasise it as "A haitch".
Mark Brader
2019-11-29 20:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories were
published?
The Gulliver stories? Was "Gulliver's Travels" a fix-up, then?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Subway Emergency Instructions...
***@vex.net | * Do not pull the emergency cord. -- MTA, NYC
Peter Moylan
2019-11-30 04:28:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories
were published?
The Gulliver stories? Was "Gulliver's Travels" a fix-up, then?
I don't know who came up with the title "Gulliver's Travels", but I was
always under the impression that it wasn't Swift. Wikipedia gives the
original title as

<quote>
Travels into Several Remote Nations of the World. In Four Parts. By
Lemuel Gulliver, First a Surgeon, and then a Captain of Several Ships
</quote>

I had always been under the impression that the different voyages had
been published separately, and apparently that is wrong. It remains
true, I believe, that "Gulliver's Travels" is an abbreviation but not
the title of the book.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Mark Brader
2019-11-30 09:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories
were published?
The Gulliver stories? Was "Gulliver's Travels" a fix-up, then?
I don't know who came up with the title "Gulliver's Travels", but I was
always under the impression that it wasn't Swift. Wikipedia gives the
original title as
<quote>
Travels into Several Remote Nations of the World. In Four Parts. By
Lemuel Gulliver, First a Surgeon, and then a Captain of Several Ships
</quote>
Sounds about right, yep.
Post by Peter Moylan
I had always been under the impression that the different voyages had
been published separately, and apparently that is wrong.
Ah. Well, thanks.
Post by Peter Moylan
It remains true, I believe, that "Gulliver's Travels" is an
abbreviation but not the title of the book.
Well, it is the title of modern editions in English, for what
that's worth.
--
Mark Brader "The [promotional] website is more cleverly
Toronto thought out than the movie itself."
***@vex.net --Stephen Bourne

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-30 14:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
Are you asking about now, or about the time the Gulliver stories
were published?
The Gulliver stories? Was "Gulliver's Travels" a fix-up, then?
I don't know who came up with the title "Gulliver's Travels", but I was
always under the impression that it wasn't Swift. Wikipedia gives the
original title as
<quote>
Travels into Several Remote Nations of the World. In Four Parts. By
Lemuel Gulliver, First a Surgeon, and then a Captain of Several Ships
</quote>
I had always been under the impression that the different voyages had
been published separately, and apparently that is wrong. It remains
true, I believe, that "Gulliver's Travels" is an abbreviation but not
the title of the book.
And Dodgson/Carroll didn't write books called "Alice in Wonderland" and
"Through the Looking Glass," either.

It was a standard naming device for Early Modern books -- "Hakluyt's
Voyages" is similarly titled, and "Holinshed's Chronicles," one of
Shakespeare's main sources.
Horace LaBadie
2019-11-29 16:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
1. "...an hundred and fifty of their beds, sewn together, made up the breadth
and length; and these were four double,..."
'four double'?
Quadrupled.

The total of the beds used to make one bed for Gulliver was six hundred,
as he notes. There were one hundred fifty mattresses in each of the four
layers that made his bed.
p***@gmail.com
2019-12-06 16:02:29 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 6:46:28 PM UTC-8, ***@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>

I swear 'by holding my right foot in my left hand, and placing the middle finger of my right hand on the crown of my head, and my thumb on the tip of my right ear' that I appreciate a great deal all your feedback. Have a great day!
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