If my grandmother had wheels...

[Nico]

I am greatly interested in phrases like the following:



If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped.

If my Auntie had bollocks, she'd be my Uncle.


If wishes were fishes, we'd never go hungry.



I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.



Some are philosophical, some nonsensical, some jocular, some quite naughty.
Most express (regrettable) impossibilities.



I would be very grateful for you to send phrases like these if you happen to
know any.



You can either post them here, to the NG, or use my e-mail address (leave
out: NOSPAMTHANKYOU): ***@runbox.com





Thank you very much for your trouble,



Nico

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Post by Nico
If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped.
If my Auntie had bollocks, she'd be my Uncle.
If wishes were fishes, we'd never go hungry.
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.
Some are philosophical, some nonsensical, some jocular, some quite naughty.
Most express (regrettable) impossibilities.
I would be very grateful for you to send phrases like these if you happen to
know any.

If "if"s and "an"s were pots and pans,
tinkers would cuss and beggars would ride.

Perce

[Joe Fineman]

Post by Percival P. Cassidy
If "if"s and "an"s were pots and pans,
tinkers would cuss and beggars would ride.

So also in Russian:

Kaby ne kaby, da ne no,
Byl by generalom davno.

If it weren't for if and but,
(I'd) have been a general a long time ago.

And, of course, if wishes were horses, there would be an easy
explanation for all this horseshit.

[Mike H]

Post by Nico
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.

In the libretto of Stravinsky's opera "The Rake's Progress", W.H Auden
ends the first act(?) with the Rake declaiming

"Come wishes be horses, this beggar shall ride".

[Donna Richoux]

Post by Nico
If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped.
If my Auntie had bollocks, she'd be my Uncle.
If wishes were fishes, we'd never go hungry.
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.
Some are philosophical, some nonsensical, some jocular, some quite naughty.
Most express (regrettable) impossibilities.
I would be very grateful for you to send phrases like these if you happen to
know any.
If my grandma had wheels, she'd be a trolley-bus/trolleycar/tram.

[Wenn deine Großmutter Räder hätte, wäre sie eine Straßenbahn. = Yiddish
proverb].

Post by Nico
If I had some ham, I'd have ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.
If a pig had wings, it could fly.
If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
If a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its tail on the ground.
If pigs had wings, they'd be pigeons.
If "ifs" and "ans" were pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers.
If my aunt had a beard, she'd be my uncle.

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped.
If my Auntie had bollocks, she'd be my Uncle.
If wishes were fishes, we'd never go hungry.
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.
Some are philosophical, some nonsensical, some jocular, some quite naughty.
Most express (regrettable) impossibilities.
I would be very grateful for you to send phrases like these if you happen to
know any.
If my grandma had wheels, she'd be a trolley-bus/trolleycar/tram.

[Wenn deine Großmutter Räder hätte, wäre sie eine Straßenbahn. = Yiddish
proverb].

Why spell Yiddish as German?

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If I had some ham, I'd have ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.

Check the /Oxford Dictionary of Quotations/. I remember this as "If we
had bacon, we could have bacon and eggs. If we had bacon." From
something I'd never heard of called "A Passenger to Metuchen".
...

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If pigs had wings, they'd be pigeons.

...

I think this one can be found in a Robert Heinlein book.

[j***@yahoo.com]

***@yahoo.com wrote:
...

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Nico
If I had some ham, I'd have ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.

Check the /Oxford Dictionary of Quotations/. I remember this as "If we
had bacon, we could have bacon and eggs. If we had bacon."

That is, "If we had eggs." At the end.

Post by j***@yahoo.com
From
something I'd never heard of called "A Passenger to Metuchen".

...

[Pat Durkin]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
...

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Nico
If I had some ham, I'd have ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.

Check the /Oxford Dictionary of Quotations/. I remember this as "If we
had bacon, we could have bacon and eggs. If we had bacon."

That is, "If we had eggs." At the end.

I have heard your corrected version.

[Donna Richoux]

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If my grandma had wheels, she'd be a trolley-bus/trolleycar/tram.

[Wenn deine Großmutter Räder hätte, wäre sie eine Straßenbahn. = Yiddish
proverb].

Why spell Yiddish as German?

I was quoting the source where I got it. I'll take your word for it. Do
they even use the ß symbol in Yiddish?

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If I had some ham, I'd have ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.

Check the /Oxford Dictionary of Quotations/. I remember this as "If we
had bacon, we could have bacon and eggs. If we had bacon." From
something I'd never heard of called "A Passenger to Metuchen".

Nothing authoritative turns right up. There are five times as many
results for "ham" as for "bacon." Some call it "an ancient gag" and "a
joke from the Great Depression."

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If pigs had wings, they'd be pigeons.

...
I think this one can be found in a Robert Heinlein book.

Yes, someone has that cited in their sig file:

If pigs had wings they'd be pigeons.
Robert A. Heinlein (1907 - 1988)
"--We Also Walk Dogs" (ASF) c.1941

Which is not the same as saying Heinlein invented it, but he might have.

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If my grandma had wheels, she'd be a trolley-bus/trolleycar/tram.

[Wenn deine Großmutter Räder hätte, wäre sie eine Straßenbahn. = Yiddish
proverb].

Why spell Yiddish as German?

I was quoting the source where I got it.

I figured that, so I (should have) addressed my question to the person
who wrote it.

Post by Donna Richoux
I'll take your word for it. Do
they even use the ß symbol in Yiddish?

Yiddish is written with the Hebrew alphabet. There's an official
transliteration system, brought to us by YIVO (Yidisher Visnshaftlekher
Institut); it uses only the Latin letters as in English--no ß, no
umlauts. (And I'll bet it doesn't use "x".)

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If I had some ham, I'd have ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.

Check the /Oxford Dictionary of Quotations/. I remember this as "If we
had bacon, we could have bacon and eggs. If we had bacon." From
something I'd never heard of called "A Passenger to Metuchen".

Nothing authoritative turns right up. There are five times as many
results for "ham" as for "bacon." Some call it "an ancient gag" and "a
joke from the Great Depression."

Okay, maybe it's not in the ODQ. Maybe I've been having a lot of
quotation hallucinations lately. I might have a source tomorrow.

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by j***@yahoo.com

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Nico
If pigs had wings, they'd be pigeons.

...
I think this one can be found in a Robert Heinlein book.

If pigs had wings they'd be pigeons.
Robert A. Heinlein (1907 - 1988)
"--We Also Walk Dogs" (ASF) c.1941
Which is not the same as saying Heinlein invented it, but he might have.

Thanks. It's nice to remember something right.

[Robert Bannister]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Yiddish is written with the Hebrew alphabet. There's an official
transliteration system, brought to us by YIVO (Yidisher Visnshaftlekher
Institut); it uses only the Latin letters as in English--no ß, no
umlauts. (And I'll bet it doesn't use "x".)

But how is/was Yiddish written by the huge number of speakers who used
to live in Germany?

[Robert Lieblich]

Post by Robert Bannister

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Yiddish is written with the Hebrew alphabet. There's an official
transliteration system, brought to us by YIVO (Yidisher Visnshaftlekher
Institut); it uses only the Latin letters as in English--no ß, no
umlauts. (And I'll bet it doesn't use "x".)

But how is/was Yiddish written by the huge number of speakers who used
to live in Germany?

Most of them are long dead now. Let's not get into why. But back
when there were large numbers of Jewish immigrants to the US from
Germany and other European countries where English was spoken, the
Hebrew alphabet was customary. The Jewish Daily Forward (as it was
called in English) was published in Yiddish in New York City for
several decades, and it used the Hebrew alphabet, and as far as I
knowt most people who used it as a vernacular, regardless of when and
where they lived, wrote it with that alphabet. It survives now mainly
in Israel, where the official language is Hebrew, so that pretty much
takes cre of the present.

I can remember my father's mother, born circa 1880 and with Yiddish as
hear first language, writing letters to friends in Yiddish. She used
the Hebrew alphabet.

Official transliteration or not, there's really no single spelling of
Yiddish in English.

[Robert Bannister]

Post by Robert Lieblich

Post by Robert Bannister

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Yiddish is written with the Hebrew alphabet. There's an official
transliteration system, brought to us by YIVO (Yidisher Visnshaftlekher
Institut); it uses only the Latin letters as in English--no ß, no
umlauts. (And I'll bet it doesn't use "x".)

But how is/was Yiddish written by the huge number of speakers who used
to live in Germany?

Most of them are long dead now. Let's not get into why. But back
when there were large numbers of Jewish immigrants to the US from
Germany and other European countries where English was spoken, the
Hebrew alphabet was customary. The Jewish Daily Forward (as it was
called in English) was published in Yiddish in New York City for
several decades, and it used the Hebrew alphabet, and as far as I
knowt most people who used it as a vernacular, regardless of when and
where they lived, wrote it with that alphabet. It survives now mainly
in Israel, where the official language is Hebrew, so that pretty much
takes cre of the present.
I can remember my father's mother, born circa 1880 and with Yiddish as
hear first language, writing letters to friends in Yiddish. She used
the Hebrew alphabet.

That surprised me. I didn't realise that Hebrew (apart from a few
liturgical expressions) or even the Hebrew alphabet were widely known
outside rabbinical and learned circles, . That's what I love about AUE:
we keep learning things.

Post by Robert Lieblich
Official transliteration or not, there's really no single spelling of
Yiddish in English.

True. There are notable differences in the spellings of Yiddish words
used in Cockney and those in American, and I would assume that those who
come from non-English-speaking countries might use different conventions
again.

[Skitt]

Post by Robert Bannister

Post by Robert Lieblich

Post by Robert Bannister

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Yiddish is written with the Hebrew alphabet. There's an official
transliteration system, brought to us by YIVO (Yidisher
Visnshaftlekher Institut); it uses only the Latin letters as in
English--no ß, no umlauts. (And I'll bet it doesn't use "x".)

But how is/was Yiddish written by the huge number of speakers who
used to live in Germany?

Most of them are long dead now. Let's not get into why. But back
when there were large numbers of Jewish immigrants to the US from
Germany and other European countries where English was spoken, the
Hebrew alphabet was customary. The Jewish Daily Forward (as it was
called in English) was published in Yiddish in New York City for
several decades, and it used the Hebrew alphabet, and as far as I
knowt most people who used it as a vernacular, regardless of when and
where they lived, wrote it with that alphabet. It survives now
mainly in Israel, where the official language is Hebrew, so that
pretty much takes cre of the present.
I can remember my father's mother, born circa 1880 and with Yiddish
as hear first language, writing letters to friends in Yiddish. She
used the Hebrew alphabet.

That surprised me. I didn't realise that Hebrew (apart from a few
liturgical expressions) or even the Hebrew alphabet were widely known
outside rabbinical and learned circles, . That's what I love about
AUE: we keep learning things.

Post by Robert Lieblich
Official transliteration or not, there's really no single spelling of
Yiddish in English.

True. There are notable differences in the spellings of Yiddish words
used in Cockney and those in American, and I would assume that those
who come from non-English-speaking countries might use different
conventions again.

In Latvia, Yiddish papers used the Hebrew alphabet. I remember seeing one
of the residents of our apartment building reading them.

[mb]

Post by Robert Bannister

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Yiddish is written with the Hebrew alphabet. There's an official
transliteration system, brought to us by YIVO (Yidisher Visnshaftlekher
Institut); it uses only the Latin letters as in English--no ß, no
umlauts. (And I'll bet it doesn't use "x".)

But how is/was Yiddish written by the huge number of speakers who used
to live in Germany?
--
Rob Bannister

We already had a discussion on this with Peter Daniels on sci.lang.
I've seen pre-war books printed in Yiddish with the German orthography
(and read private letters with the same system) but I couldn't get a
sample. Daniels, however, who knows a lot about writing systems, did
not find mention of it in scholarly history; I start doubting my
childhood memories.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.english.usage/browse_frm/thread/7c0e9b88111f15e7/ef3e2f909a71a75b?lnk=st&q=azythos+yiddish&rnum=1#ef3e2f909a71a75b
or

http://tinyurl.com/q4sub

[Steve Hayes]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
Check the /Oxford Dictionary of Quotations/. I remember this as "If we
had bacon, we could have bacon and eggs. If we had bacon." From
something I'd never heard of called "A Passenger to Metuchen".

In our household we have said "If we had some cheese we could have macaroni
cheese, if we had some macaroni."

[mb]

Post by Nico
If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.
If my Auntie had bollocks, she'd be my Uncle.
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.

The two sayings above are certainly not family-slang in their original
language. They are very common everyday expressions, the first in Greek
and the second (slightly out of fashion now) in French. I don't know
about the others. Possibly these exact English translations are used in
a restricted immigrant circle (the bicycle one is very common among 2d
and later generation Greeks in Astoria, NYC).

[Mike H]

Post by Nico
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.

"Had it been a bear it would have bitten you".
Said to someone who has searched for an object and failed to find it
even though it was there and visible.

[Donna Richoux]

Post by Mike H

Post by Nico
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may of such
phrases are exclusively used within families etc.

"Had it been a bear it would have bitten you".
Said to someone who has searched for an object and failed to find it
even though it was there and visible.

Oh, yes, "If it was a snake, it woulda bitja." My father said that one.

[Joe Fineman]

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Mike H

Post by Nico
I believe that - although some of these may be in common use - may
of such phrases are exclusively used within families etc.

"Had it been a bear it would have bitten you".
Said to someone who has searched for an object and failed to find it
even though it was there and visible.

Oh, yes, "If it was a snake, it woulda bitja." My father said that one.

"Snake" is certainly more to the point (if it had been a bear, I would
have seen it), but it was "bear" in my family too. Binna bearda
bitcha.