Americans perceive it as a quintessentially British song

Post by HenHanna
Are you sleeping, are you sleeping. Brother John, brother John.
Morning bells are ringing,. Morning bells are ringing...........
____________________
Americans perceive it as a quintessentially British song
For me (and thousands of others) this was reinforced by
Paul McCartney singing....
(Someone's Ringing the Bell...)
Sister Suzie,
Brother John <---------
Martin Luther, Phil and Don
Brother Michael, auntie Gin
Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
______________________________________
Paul's aunt ("Auntie Gin")
Paul's brother ("Brother Michael")
The Everly Brothers ("Phil and Don")
Keith Moon ("Uncle Ernie")
Either John Entwistle or John Lennon ("Brother John")
"Sister Suzie" was Linda, who once recorded a song under the name "Suzie
And The Red Stripes."
______________________________

I always assumed Brother John was Beatle John. But John Eastman makes
sense!

I read a quote somewhere that John Eastman was one of only two men Paul
would listen to, the other being George Martin.
Sister Suzie,
Brother John <---------
Martin Luther, Phil and Don
Brother Michael, auntie Gin
Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
Sister Suzie,
Brother John

seemed like characters from Nursery Rhymes.

Miss Muffet's name is Suzy or Susie Muffett.
or that Elinor Rigby became a Nun
(and became known as Sister Suzy)

Martin Luther, and
Uncle Arnie... i misheard in my head
as Albert (as in ...holes to fill the Albert Hall)

So, i saw Martin Luther and Albert Einstein (and others)
in a Sgt.Pepper like display

… And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall

_________________________

The song starts with the sound of a V. & E. Friedland Maestro
Westminster Chime doorbell, an electro-mechanical doorbell with a unique
"vibrato resonating" feature, before the rhythm begins.[5][6] The lyric
namechecks several famous people, between friends and relatives of
McCartney who, without a justified reason, knock on the door or ring the
bell of his house and he exclaims "Let 'Em In". They include McCartney's
paternal aunt Gin, his brother Michael, and Linda McCartney's brother
John. Phil and Don of the Everly Brothers are named (the duo had a hit
with "Keep A Knockin'"), along with Martin Luther,[7] who famously hung
his "95 Theses" on a church door. An Uncle Ernie is also named, being
the character Ringo Starr sang in the London Symphony Orchestra's
recording of the Who's rock opera, Tommy.[8]

Ed Cryer

2024-11-08 21:45:26 UTC

Post by HenHanna
Are you sleeping, are you sleeping. Brother John, brother John.
Morning bells are ringing,. Morning bells are ringing...........
____________________
   Americans perceive it as a quintessentially British song
   For me (and thousands of others) this was reinforced by
Paul McCartney singing....
               (Someone's Ringing the Bell...)
               Sister Suzie,
                              Brother John <---------
                Martin Luther, Phil and Don
               Brother Michael, auntie Gin
                   Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
______________________________________
Paul's aunt ("Auntie Gin")
Paul's brother ("Brother Michael")
The Everly Brothers ("Phil and Don")
Keith Moon ("Uncle Ernie")
Either John Entwistle or John Lennon ("Brother John")
"Sister Suzie" was Linda, who once recorded a song under the name "Suzie
And The Red Stripes."
______________________________

I always assumed Brother John was Beatle John. But John Eastman makes
sense!

I read a quote somewhere that John Eastman was one of only two men Paul
would listen to, the other being George Martin.
               Sister Suzie,
                              Brother John <---------
                Martin Luther, Phil and Don
               Brother Michael, auntie Gin
                   Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
     Sister Suzie,
                Brother John

                 seemed like characters from Nursery Rhymes.
Miss Muffet's name is Suzy or Susie Muffett.
or that Elinor Rigby became a Nun
                        (and became known as Sister Suzy)
Martin Luther, and
           Uncle Arnie... i misheard in my head
             as Albert   (as in ...holes to fill the Albert Hall)
So, i saw Martin Luther and Albert Einstein (and others)
      in a Sgt.Pepper like display
… And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall
_________________________
The song starts with the sound of a V. & E. Friedland Maestro
Westminster Chime doorbell, an electro-mechanical doorbell with a unique
"vibrato resonating" feature, before the rhythm begins.[5][6] The lyric
namechecks several famous people, between friends and relatives of
McCartney who, without a justified reason, knock on the door or ring the
bell of his house and he exclaims "Let 'Em In". They include McCartney's
paternal aunt Gin, his brother Michael, and Linda McCartney's brother
John. Phil and Don of the Everly Brothers are named (the duo had a hit
with "Keep A Knockin'"), along with Martin Luther,[7] who famously hung
his "95 Theses" on a church door. An Uncle Ernie is also named, being
the character Ringo Starr sang in the London Symphony Orchestra's
recording of the Who's rock opera, Tommy.[8]

Ever hear the song "For he's a jolly good fellow"?
Well, it was ripped from a French song;

Malbrough s'en va en guerre,
Mironton, mironton, mirontaine,
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,
Ne sait quand revien

wugi

2024-11-08 22:06:27 UTC

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by HenHanna
Are you sleeping, are you sleeping. Brother John, brother John.
Morning bells are ringing,. Morning bells are ringing...........
____________________
   Americans perceive it as a quintessentially British song
   For me (and thousands of others) this was reinforced by
Paul McCartney singing....
               (Someone's Ringing the Bell...)
               Sister Suzie,
                              Brother John <---------
                Martin Luther, Phil and Don
               Brother Michael, auntie Gin
                   Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
______________________________________
Paul's aunt ("Auntie Gin")
Paul's brother ("Brother Michael")
The Everly Brothers ("Phil and Don")
Keith Moon ("Uncle Ernie")
Either John Entwistle or John Lennon ("Brother John")
"Sister Suzie" was Linda, who once recorded a song under the name "Suzie
And The Red Stripes."
______________________________

I always assumed Brother John was Beatle John. But John Eastman makes
sense!

I read a quote somewhere that John Eastman was one of only two men Paul
would listen to, the other being George Martin.
               Sister Suzie,
                              Brother John <---------
                Martin Luther, Phil and Don
               Brother Michael, auntie Gin
                   Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
     Sister Suzie,
                Brother John

                  seemed like characters from Nursery Rhymes.
Miss Muffet's name is Suzy or Susie Muffett.
or that Elinor Rigby became a Nun
                         (and became known as Sister Suzy)
Martin Luther, and
            Uncle Arnie... i misheard in my head
              as Albert   (as in ...holes to fill the Albert Hall)
So, i saw Martin Luther and Albert Einstein (and others)
       in a Sgt.Pepper like display
… And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall
_________________________
The song starts with the sound of a V. & E. Friedland Maestro
Westminster Chime doorbell, an electro-mechanical doorbell with a unique
"vibrato resonating" feature, before the rhythm begins.[5][6] The lyric
namechecks several famous people, between friends and relatives of
McCartney who, without a justified reason, knock on the door or ring the
bell of his house and he exclaims "Let 'Em In". They include McCartney's
paternal aunt Gin, his brother Michael, and Linda McCartney's brother
John. Phil and Don of the Everly Brothers are named (the duo had a hit
with "Keep A Knockin'"), along with Martin Luther,[7] who famously hung
his "95 Theses" on a church door. An Uncle Ernie is also named, being
the character Ringo Starr sang in the London Symphony Orchestra's
recording of the Who's rock opera, Tommy.[8]

Ever hear the song "For he's a jolly good fellow"?
Well, it was ripped from a French song;
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,
Mironton, mironton, mirontaine,
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,
Ne sait quand reviendra.

Same for the first one:

Frère Jaques (2x)
Dormez-vous? (2x)
Sonnent les matines (2x)

Dutch:
Broeder Jacob (2x)
Slaapt gij nog? (2x)
Hoor de klokken luiden (2x)
Bimbambom (2x)

Others?

--
guido wugi

wugi

2024-11-08 22:13:31 UTC

Post by Ed Cryer
Ever hear the song "For he's a jolly good fellow"?
Well, it was ripped from a French song;
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,
Mironton, mironton, mirontaine,
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,
Ne sait quand reviendra.

Frère Jaques (2x)
Dormez-vous? (2x)
Sonnent les matines (2x)
Broeder Jacob (2x)
Slaapt gij nog? (2x)
Hoor de klokken luiden (2x)
Bimbambom (2x)
Others?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A8re_Jacques

--
guido wugi

Peter Moylan

2024-11-09 00:12:50 UTC

Frère Jaques (2x)
Dormez-vous? (2x)
Sonnent les matines (2x)
Broeder Jacob (2x)
Slaapt gij nog? (2x)
Hoor de klokken luiden (2x)
Bimbambom (2x)
Others?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A8re_Jacques

See also
http://dragon.sleepdeprived.ca/songbook/songs2/s2_26.htm
which has it in ten different languages.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

HenHanna

2024-11-09 00:35:57 UTC

Frère Jaques (2x)
Dormez-vous? (2x)
Sonnent les matines (2x)
Broeder Jacob (2x)
Slaapt gij nog? (2x)
Hoor de klokken luiden (2x)
Bimbambom (2x)
Others?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A8re_Jacques

See also
http://dragon.sleepdeprived.ca/songbook/songs2/s2_26.htm
which has it in ten different languages.

thanks... So it's very big in China.

i've just seen a [Vader Jakob] version.

"Vader" is a Dutch word that means "father." In popular culture, it is
often associated with the character Darth Vader from the "Star Wars"
franchise, where the name has a significant narrative connection,
especially in the context of his relationship with Luke Skywalker.

--------------- what does Darth mean?

The term "Darth" is a fictional title used in the "Star Wars" universe.
It is often associated with Sith Lords, signifying their allegiance to
the dark side of the Force. The title is thought to derive from a
combination of "dark" and "death," although it doesn't have a specific
meaning outside of its use in the franchise. The name "Darth Vader," for
example, emphasizes his role as a dark and powerful figure in the
series.

wugi

2024-11-09 13:40:00 UTC

i've just seen a [Vader Jakob] version.

In Flemish it remains "Broeder Jacob". I hardly think a Vader would be
urged to get his ass up ;)

"Vader" is a Dutch word that means "father." In popular culture, it is
often associated with the character Darth Vader from the "Star Wars"
franchise, where the name has a significant narrative connection,
especially in the context of his relationship with Luke Skywalker.
--------------- what does Darth mean?

What does "Vader" mean?
< invader?

Anyway, the French couldn't make sense of his name and (are the only
ones to have) rebaptised him as Dark Vador.

--
guido wugi

wugi

2024-11-09 13:27:24 UTC

Frère Jaques (2x)
Dormez-vous? (2x)
Sonnent les matines (2x)
Broeder Jacob (2x)
Slaapt gij nog? (2x)
Hoor de klokken luiden (2x)
Bimbambom (2x)
Others?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A8re_Jacques

See also
http://dragon.sleepdeprived.ca/songbook/songs2/s2_26.htm
which has it in ten different languages.

Around 65 here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A8re_Jacques

--
guido wugi

Peter Moylan

2024-11-08 23:48:06 UTC

The bear went over the mountain
And Jose drove the bus.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Bebercito

2024-12-02 00:17:30 UTC

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by HenHanna
Are you sleeping, are you sleeping. Brother John, brother John.
Morning bells are ringing,. Morning bells are ringing...........
____________________
   Americans perceive it as a quintessentially British song
   For me (and thousands of others) this was reinforced by
Paul McCartney singing....
               (Someone's Ringing the Bell...)
               Sister Suzie,
                              Brother John <---------
                Martin Luther, Phil and Don
               Brother Michael, auntie Gin
                   Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
______________________________________
Paul's aunt ("Auntie Gin")
Paul's brother ("Brother Michael")
The Everly Brothers ("Phil and Don")
Keith Moon ("Uncle Ernie")
Either John Entwistle or John Lennon ("Brother John")
"Sister Suzie" was Linda, who once recorded a song under the name "Suzie
And The Red Stripes."
______________________________

I always assumed Brother John was Beatle John. But John Eastman makes
sense!

I read a quote somewhere that John Eastman was one of only two men Paul
would listen to, the other being George Martin.
               Sister Suzie,
                              Brother John <---------
                Martin Luther, Phil and Don
               Brother Michael, auntie Gin
                   Open the door and let 'em in, yeah
     Sister Suzie,
                Brother John

                 seemed like characters from Nursery Rhymes.
Miss Muffet's name is Suzy or Susie Muffett.
or that Elinor Rigby became a Nun
                        (and became known as Sister Suzy)
Martin Luther, and
           Uncle Arnie... i misheard in my head
             as Albert   (as in ...holes to fill the Albert Hall)
So, i saw Martin Luther and Albert Einstein (and others)
      in a Sgt.Pepper like display
… And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall
_________________________
The song starts with the sound of a V. & E. Friedland Maestro
Westminster Chime doorbell, an electro-mechanical doorbell with a unique
"vibrato resonating" feature, before the rhythm begins.[5][6] The lyric
namechecks several famous people, between friends and relatives of
McCartney who, without a justified reason, knock on the door or ring the
bell of his house and he exclaims "Let 'Em In". They include McCartney's
paternal aunt Gin, his brother Michael, and Linda McCartney's brother
John. Phil and Don of the Everly Brothers are named (the duo had a hit
with "Keep A Knockin'"), along with Martin Luther,[7] who famously hung
his "95 Theses" on a church door. An Uncle Ernie is also named, being
the character Ringo Starr sang in the London Symphony Orchestra's
recording of the Who's rock opera, Tommy.[8]

Ever hear the song "For he's a jolly good fellow"?
Well, it was ripped from a French song;
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,

"Malbrough s'en va-t-en guerre" actually, as there's an epenthetic
"t" thrown in for euphony (i.e. to avoid hiatus).

Post by Ed Cryer
Mironton, mironton, mirontaine,
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,
Ne sait quand reviendra.
Ed

Ed Cryer

2024-12-03 08:40:05 UTC

Post by Bebercito

Post by Ed Cryer
Malbrough s'en va en guerre,

"Malbrough s'en va-t-en guerre" actually, as there's an epenthetic
"t" thrown in for euphony (i.e. to avoid hiatus).

Quite so.

Ed

Jeff Barnett

2024-11-09 01:12:13 UTC

I would be fascinated to what Americans you are talking about. My
experience as an American would say that you are wide of the mark. Most
American kids first heard / learned the sang as a round, first sang in
French a few times then in English often in unison as the grand finale.

I know in many parts of the world, the average citizen speaks 4.23
languages at age 12 while the average American never speaks more than
0.69 languages at any age. Despite that sad fact, most American children
learn to sing this song at school or camp at an early age and in French.
In fact, it's this song which is often called out to convince Americans
that there are languages other than English.

But I assure you I, in all the years I have been around in America, have
never seen or heard any native

Ymir

2024-11-09 01:53:49 UTC

I would be fascinated to what Americans you are talking about. My
experience as an American would say that you are wide of the mark. Most
American kids first heard / learned the sang as a round, first sang in
French a few times then in English often in unison as the grand finale.
I know in many parts of the world, the average citizen speaks 4.23
languages at age 12 while the average American never speaks more than
0.69 languages at any age. Despite that sad fact, most American children
learn to sing this song at school or camp at an early age and in French.
In fact, it's this song which is often called out to convince Americans
that there are languages other than English.
But I assure you I, in all the years I have been around in America, have
never seen or heard any native aver the Friar to be English.

As a Canadian, I can concur. This song is quintessentially French, not
British. Yes, it has an English language version, but I've never
considered that to be a British version.

André

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-11-09 08:33:21 UTC

Post by Ymir

I would be fascinated to what Americans you are talking about. My
experience as an American would say that you are wide of the mark. Most
American kids first heard / learned the sang as a round, first sang in
French a few times then in English often in unison as the grand finale.
I know in many parts of the world, the average citizen speaks 4.23
languages at age 12 while the average American never speaks more than
0.69 languages at any age. Despite that sad fact, most American
children learn to sing this song at school or camp at an early age and
in French. In fact, it's this song which is often called out to
convince Americans that there are languages other than English.
But I assure you I, in all the years I have been around in America,
have never seen or heard any native aver the Friar to be English.

As a Canadian, I can concur. This song is quintessentially French, not
British. Yes, it has an English language version, but I've never
considered that to be a British version.

Yes, and in the UK it is sung maybe once for every ten times the French
song is sung. For many people, such as my late mother, it is the only
bit of French they know.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Kerr-Mudd, John

2024-11-09 13:24:50 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 09:33:21 +0100

Post by Ymir

I would be fascinated to what Americans you are talking about. My
experience as an American would say that you are wide of the mark. Most
American kids first heard / learned the sang as a round, first sang in
French a few times then in English often in unison as the grand finale.
I know in many parts of the world, the average citizen speaks 4.23
languages at age 12 while the average American never speaks more than
0.69 languages at any age. Despite that sad fact, most American
children learn to sing this song at school or camp at an early age and
in French. In fact, it's this song which is often called out to
convince Americans that there are languages other than English.
But I assure you I, in all the years I have been around in America,
have never seen or heard any native aver the Friar to be English.

As a Canadian, I can concur. This song is quintessentially French, not
British. Yes, it has an English language version, but I've never
considered that to be a British version.

Yes, and in the UK it is sung maybe once for every ten times the French
song is sung. For many people, such as my late mother, it is the only
bit of French they know.

But, but how does your aunt manage to write to her?

Pshurely after all those eurovisions she'd have picked up nool points?

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug

Peter Moylan

2024-11-09 23:25:15 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Yes, and in the UK it is sung maybe once for every ten times the
French song is sung. For many people, such as my late mother, it is
the only bit of French they know.

But, but how does your aunt manage to write to her?

Not sure whether I've reported this here before. I know someone who
knows no French, despite having a French-speaking mother. As the mother
grew older she lost all of her English, so mother and daughter no longer
could communicate.

My own daughter is fluent in French, but her daughters (my
granddaughters) know practically no French. I find it a pity when a
language is not passed on to the next generation, which is the main
reason I'm trying to learn Irish.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Aidan Kehoe

2024-11-10 08:56:18 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Yes, and in the UK it is sung maybe once for every ten times the
French song is sung. For many people, such as my late mother, it is
the only bit of French they know.

But, but how does your aunt manage to write to her?

Avec la plume de sa tante, ce qui est près de la chaise de sa tante.

Post by Peter Moylan
Not sure whether I've reported this here before. I know someone who
knows no French, despite having a French-speaking mother. As the mother
grew older she lost all of her English, so mother and daughter no longer
could communicate.
My own daughter is fluent in French, but her daughters (my
granddaughters) know practically no French. I find it a pity when a
language is not passed on to the next generation, which is the main
reason I'm trying to learn Irish.

My own attitude is:

a) In this part of the world, speaking non-English languages can give
employment opportunities denied to monolinguals:

b) I’m mildly nationalistic and regret, as an Irishman, that I’m unhappy with
my level of Irish, so am working on that, and:

c) There’s research suggesting a delayed impact for dementia for multilingual
speakers and a related experience in my own life fits with this, in that when I
went back and did medicine at 28 after developing software for six years my
hobby language-learning was more useful in memorising large numbers of facts
than was the software development experience, where understanding can be hard
but facts are (currently) easy, in that it’s easy and quick to look up function
calling conventions or function names.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Peter Moylan

2024-11-10 10:51:45 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 09:33:21 +0100 Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Yes, and in the UK it is sung maybe once for every ten times
the French song is sung. For many people, such as my late
mother, it is the only bit of French they know.

But, but how does your aunt manage to write to her?

Avec la plume de sa tante, ce qui est près de la chaise de sa tante.

Pas assez près. Il est sur le bureau de son oncle. Mais elle peut
utiliser le papier de l'oncle, qui est sur le bureau de la tante.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-11-10 09:05:35 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Yes, and in the UK it is sung maybe once for every ten times the
French song is sung. For many people, such as my late mother, it is
the only bit of French they know.

But, but how does your aunt manage to write to her?

Not sure whether I've reported this here before. I know someone who
knows no French, despite having a French-speaking mother. As the mother
grew older she lost all of her English, so mother and daughter no longer
could communicate.
My own daughter is fluent in French, but her daughters (my
granddaughters) know practically no French.

My experience is similar. My youngest daughter is effortlessly fluent
in English, French and Spanish, but her twin children, now 9, speak
only French, though I think they understand more English than they let
on. Next year they will start having English at school, and we're
hoping things will change. My son-in-law has an Arabic-speaking father,
but he knows no Arabic at all.

Post by Peter Moylan
I find it a pity when a
language is not passed on to the next generation, which is the main
reason I'm trying to learn Irish.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-11-09 08:29:56 UTC

I would be fascinated to what Americans you are talking about.

Nothing to be fascinated by: you are replying to someone who
specializes in trying to start threads by expressing daft opinions and
then not participating in any discussion.

Post by Jeff Barnett
My
experience as an American would say that you are wide of the mark.

Of course, but remember: this is the hen.

[ … ]

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

jerryfriedman

2024-11-10 02:56:37 UTC

Interesting. I learned it as a round in French and in
English when I was in single digits, but I don't think
I've ever heard it with code-switching.

Post by Jeff Barnett
I know in many parts of the world, the average citizen speaks 4.23
languages at age 12 while the average American never speaks more than
0.69 languages at any age. Despite that sad fact, most American children
learn to sing this song at school or camp at an early age and in French.
In fact, it's this song which is often called out to convince Americans
that there are languages other than English.

..

I thought that was "Uno, dos, y tres, cuatro, cinco, seis.
Siete, ocho, nueve, I can count to diez. La la, la la la..."

(I've had some success with reciting "Jabberwocky" in
French.)

--
Jerry Friedman

--

occam

2024-11-10 09:11:11 UTC