Cultural Marxism

[Steve Hayes]

I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.

Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?

And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.
Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?

You might like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

Summary: It's the supposed Jewish-led conspiracy
that according to some on the right wing is trying
to destroy Christian capitalist society by promoting
socialism, secularism, postmodernism, woke-ism, and
non-traditional family and sexual relationships.

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

--
Jerry Friedman

[jerryfriedman]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.
Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?

You might like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

..

Sorry, I meant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

Some believers in a cultural Marxism conspiracy trace
it to the Frankfurt School, which is how the previous
link got in there.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Moylan]

Post by jerryfriedman
Sorry, I meant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
Some believers in a cultural Marxism conspiracy trace it to the
Frankfurt School, which is how the previous link got in there.

I was amused by the reference to "replace Christianity with socialism".
There are some who would claim that Christianity, or at least early
Christianity, promoted socialist values.

[occam]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by jerryfriedman
Sorry, I meant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
Some believers in a cultural Marxism conspiracy trace it to the
Frankfurt School, which is how the previous link got in there.

I was amused by the reference to "replace Christianity with socialism".
There are some who would claim that Christianity, or at least early
Christianity, promoted socialist values.

Ah, yes. That Christ fellow was against capitalistic exploitation also,
just like Marx. In one incident he reacted angrily at the moneylenders'
benches set up outside the temple. Something Marx would have approved of.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by occam

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by jerryfriedman
Sorry, I meant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
Some believers in a cultural Marxism conspiracy trace it to the
Frankfurt School, which is how the previous link got in there.

I was amused by the reference to "replace Christianity with socialism".
There are some who would claim that Christianity, or at least early
Christianity, promoted socialist values.

Ah, yes. That Christ fellow was against capitalistic exploitation also,
just like Marx. In one incident he reacted angrily at the moneylenders'
benches set up outside the temple. Something Marx would have approved of.

Yes, but he wore sandals. I doubt if Marx would approve of that kind of
hippy behaviour.

P.S. I first read this thread to be about Cultural Manxism.
Is having three legs a cultural thing?
(Or having no tail?)

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by occam
Ah, yes. That Christ fellow was against capitalistic exploitation also,
just like Marx. In one incident he reacted angrily at the moneylenders'
benches set up outside the temple. Something Marx would have approved of.

Yes, but he wore sandals. I doubt if Marx would approve of that kind of
hippy behaviour.

Do we know anything about which kind of clothing Marx would approve?

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Do we know anything about which kind of clothing Marx would approve?

Presumably that made by Harry and Max Hart.

-GAWollman

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Garrett Wollman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Do we know anything about which kind of clothing Marx would approve?

Presumably that made by Harry and Max Hart.

Anything from Ermen and Engels’ Victoria Mill in Manchester?

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by jerryfriedman
Sorry, I meant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
Some believers in a cultural Marxism conspiracy trace it to the
Frankfurt School, which is how the previous link got in there.

I was amused by the reference to "replace Christianity with socialism".
There are some who would claim that Christianity, or at least early
Christianity, promoted socialist values.

There are significant differences between Christian socialism and
Marxist socialism, and indeed between Marxist socialism and many other
kinds of socialism.

The people who say such things probably have no clear idea of any of
them, just as they throw around phrases like "cultural Marxism"
without any clear understanding of what it means other than the
assumption that their listeners will, like them, think it's a Bad
Thing.

Again, those who speak of socialism and Christianity as being
essentially opposed to each other often quote St Paul as saying "if
anyone will not work, let him not eat", assuming that socialism means
that one is entitled to eat without working.

For Marx, however, the socialist rule was "from each according to his
ability, to each according to his *work*".

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by jerryfriedman
Sorry, I meant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
Some believers in a cultural Marxism conspiracy trace it to the
Frankfurt School, which is how the previous link got in there.

I was amused by the reference to "replace Christianity with socialism".
There are some who would claim that Christianity, or at least early
Christianity, promoted socialist values.

There are significant differences between Christian socialism and
Marxist socialism, and indeed between Marxist socialism and many other
kinds of socialism.
The people who say such things probably have no clear idea of any of
them, just as they throw around phrases like "cultural Marxism"
without any clear understanding of what it means other than the
assumption that their listeners will, like them, think it's a Bad
Thing.

I think there's a lot of that.

Post by Steve Hayes
Again, those who speak of socialism and Christianity as being
essentially opposed to each other often quote St Paul as saying "if
anyone will not work, let him not eat", assuming that socialism means
that one is entitled to eat without working.
For Marx, however, the socialist rule was "from each according to his
ability, to each according to his *work*".

Here's the quotation with "needs" in Marx's /Critique of the
Gotha Program/:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm

It describes the later phase of socialism, after it's
gotten rid of its bourgeois "birthmarks".

This essay about the /Critique/ describes "to each according
to his work" as a summary, not by Marx, of his vision of
the earlier phase.

https://books.google.com/books?id=8rpHEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA15

--
Jerry Friedman

[Steve Hayes]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.
Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?

You might like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School
Summary: It's the supposed Jewish-led conspiracy
that according to some on the right wing is trying
to destroy Christian capitalist society by promoting
socialism, secularism, postmodernism, woke-ism, and
non-traditional family and sexual relationships.

I've got a couple of books by or about the Frankfurt School:

Adorno, Theodor W. (ed) 1976 [1969] The positivist dispute in
German sociology. London: Heinemann.
ISBN: 0-435-82656-5
The confrontation between Critical Rationalism
(Popper, Albert) and Critical Theory (Adorno,
Habermas) ranged over a wide area; not merely
over positivism but the problems of
objectivity and value-freedom, the nature of
theory formation, explanation and testing and
the role of the social sciences --
particularly sociology -- in society as a
whole. The volume not only covers and develops
the areas that were held in dispute in the
original Methodenstreit and Werturteilsstreit
many decades ago, but also forms part of a
continuing debate. While the supporters of
Critical Rationalism argue for the view that
all the sciences are faced with problems
requiring solution, and that the modes of
procedure for arriving at solutions are common
to them all, supporters of a critical theory
of society argue that questions of methodology
must be placed in relation to the object
studied and that our knowledge of the world
differs according to our cognitive interests.

Connerton, Paul (ed) 1976. Critical Sociology. Harmondsworth:
Penguin.
ISBN: 0-14-080966-X
Essays on critical theory by Adorno, Habermas
et al.

But neither has given me a very clear idea of what "critical theory"
is, much less "cultural Marxism".

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

[Ross Clark]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.
Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?

You might like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School
Summary: It's the supposed Jewish-led conspiracy
that according to some on the right wing is trying
to destroy Christian capitalist society by promoting
socialism, secularism, postmodernism, woke-ism, and
non-traditional family and sexual relationships.

Adorno, Theodor W. (ed) 1976 [1969] The positivist dispute in
German sociology. London: Heinemann.
ISBN: 0-435-82656-5
The confrontation between Critical Rationalism
(Popper, Albert) and Critical Theory (Adorno,
Habermas) ranged over a wide area; not merely
over positivism but the problems of
objectivity and value-freedom, the nature of
theory formation, explanation and testing and
the role of the social sciences --
particularly sociology -- in society as a
whole. The volume not only covers and develops
the areas that were held in dispute in the
original Methodenstreit and Werturteilsstreit
many decades ago, but also forms part of a
continuing debate. While the supporters of
Critical Rationalism argue for the view that
all the sciences are faced with problems
requiring solution, and that the modes of
procedure for arriving at solutions are common
to them all, supporters of a critical theory
of society argue that questions of methodology
must be placed in relation to the object
studied and that our knowledge of the world
differs according to our cognitive interests.
Penguin.
ISBN: 0-14-080966-X
Essays on critical theory by Adorno, Habermas
et al.
But neither has given me a very clear idea of what "critical theory"
is, much less "cultural Marxism".

I was likewise puzzled when I began to hear about "critical theory" from
colleagues and students in Auckland circa 1980. Adorno, Habermas, Walter
Benjamin were common reference points. As far as I could work out, it
just meant Frankfurt-School philosophy/sociology/psychology.

(Earlier I had been a student at a university (UC San Diego) where
Herbert Marcuse, one of the last of the Frankfurtians, could be seen
around the campus, generally looking pretty disgusted with everything he
saw. One or two students I knew were seriously interested, and I may
actually have read one of his books; but Linguistics was not a highly
politicized department.)

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Ross Clark

Post by Steve Hayes
But neither has given me a very clear idea of what "critical theory"
is, much less "cultural Marxism".

I was likewise puzzled when I began to hear about "critical theory" from
colleagues and students in Auckland circa 1980. Adorno, Habermas, Walter
Benjamin were common reference points. As far as I could work out, it
just meant Frankfurt-School philosophy/sociology/psychology.
(Earlier I had been a student at a university (UC San Diego) where
Herbert Marcuse, one of the last of the Frankfurtians, could be seen
around the campus, generally looking pretty disgusted with everything he
saw. One or two students I knew were seriously interested, and I may
actually have read one of his books; but Linguistics was not a highly
politicized department.)

Yes. The members of the Frankfurt School seem to have said very little
about "critical theory", which seems to refer to another layer of
interpretation that has been laid down on top of them, and if you
excavate deeper, to the Frankfurt School itself, it seems difficult to
find any traces of it.

[Silvano]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.

Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

Something Germans should tell to Sahra Wagenknecht and her followers, if
you are interested in regional elections in Germany: Marx wrote "Workers
of all lands unite!" He never wrote "German workers, unite against
Polish plumbers and Syrian GPs!"

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Silvano

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx
and tries to spread them.
Something Germans should tell to Sahra Wagenknecht and her followers,
"Workers of all lands unite!" He never wrote "German workers, unite
against Polish plumbers and Syrian GPs!"

I suppose Germany has more Polish plumbers now that the UK has found a
way to keep them out.

Prejudice against foreign workers has a long history. It's the reason
for the "National" in National Socialism.

In some places there's a twofold objection to foreigners:
1. They're lazy and won't work; and, what's more
2. They're taking all our jobs.

[Snidely]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Silvano

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx
and tries to spread them.
Something Germans should tell to Sahra Wagenknecht and her followers,
"Workers of all lands unite!" He never wrote "German workers, unite
against Polish plumbers and Syrian GPs!"

I suppose Germany has more Polish plumbers now that the UK has found a
way to keep them out.
Prejudice against foreign workers has a long history. It's the reason
for the "National" in National Socialism.

In the 70s, I believe Germans had a thing about Turkish workers;
Volkswagen employed many, it seems.

Post by Peter Moylan
1. They're lazy and won't work; and, what's more
2. They're taking all our jobs.

Yep.

/dps

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Snidely
In the 70s, I believe Germans had a thing about Turkish workers;
Volkswagen employed many, it seems.

In the seventies Denmark invited workers from Turkey, Jugoslavia and
Pakistan with Turks as the largest group (60'000 or more). Shortly after
the veil was drawn from my eyes. I was raised to respect all people and
thought that that was the spirit in Denmark. It wasn't.

[lar3ryca]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Snidely
In the 70s, I believe Germans had a thing about Turkish workers;
Volkswagen employed many, it seems.

In the seventies Denmark invited workers from Turkey, Jugoslavia and
Pakistan with Turks as the largest group (60'000 or more). Shortly after
the veil was drawn from my eyes. I was raised to respect all people and
thought that that was the spirit in Denmark. It wasn't.

In the early 60s, in France, it was Algerians.

We used to get a lot of Algerians going door-to-door selling tapestries.
They were pretty good at it, and would happily bargain with a potential
customer. One afternoon I was at a friend's place when an Algerian
showed up. My friend invited him in, and they engaged in a spirited
haggling session. My friend finally wore him down, and as he departed,
he said "Enjoy your tapestry, but remember, YOU are the Arab."

[Aidan Kehoe]

Post by Peter Moylan

[...] Something Germans should tell to Sahra Wagenknecht and her
followers, if you are interested in regional elections in Germany: Marx
wrote "Workers of all lands unite!" He never wrote "German workers, unite
against Polish plumbers and Syrian GPs!"

I suppose Germany has more Polish plumbers now that the UK has found a
way to keep them out.

Poland’s thriving, 2.9% unemployment rate, Poles are not emigrating in large
numbers anymore. I had until Friday two Polish patients in a panel of about
1,600, now I have none, this would have been unthinkable in 2007.

(Plenty of Ukrainians, though!)

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Peter Moylan
I suppose Germany has more Polish plumbers now that the UK has found a
way to keep them out.
Prejudice against foreign workers has a long history. It's the reason
for the "National" in National Socialism.
1. They're lazy and won't work; and, what's more
2. They're taking all our jobs.

+1

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Silvano

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx
and tries to spread them.
Something Germans should tell to Sahra Wagenknecht and her followers,
"Workers of all lands unite!" He never wrote "German workers, unite
against Polish plumbers and Syrian GPs!"

I suppose Germany has more Polish plumbers now that the UK has found a
way to keep them out.
Prejudice against foreign workers has a long history. It's the reason
for the "National" in National Socialism.
1. They're lazy and won't work; and, what's more
2. They're taking all our jobs.

Views often held by the same bright people.

[jerryfriedman]

..

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Silvano
Something Germans should tell to Sahra Wagenknecht and her followers,
"Workers of all lands unite!" He never wrote "German workers, unite
against Polish plumbers and Syrian GPs!"

I suppose Germany has more Polish plumbers now that the UK has found a
way to keep them out.
Prejudice against foreign workers has a long history. It's the reason
for the "National" in National Socialism.
1. They're lazy and won't work; and, what's more
2. They're taking all our jobs.

Views often held by the same bright people.

There's nothing inconsistent in saying that immigrants who
are lazy are living on our taxes, and those who aren't are
taking our jobs. (Not my view, though.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Adam Funk]

Post by jerryfriedman
..

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Silvano
Something Germans should tell to Sahra Wagenknecht and her followers,
"Workers of all lands unite!" He never wrote "German workers, unite
against Polish plumbers and Syrian GPs!"

I suppose Germany has more Polish plumbers now that the UK has found a
way to keep them out.
Prejudice against foreign workers has a long history. It's the reason
for the "National" in National Socialism.
1. They're lazy and won't work; and, what's more
2. They're taking all our jobs.

Views often held by the same bright people.

There's nothing inconsistent in saying that immigrants who
are lazy are living on our taxes, and those who aren't are
taking our jobs. (Not my view, though.)

That can be true but it's a bit subtle for most xenophobes.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Silvano

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

..

Thanks. Does that mean a Marxian is a kind of Marxist?
I don't see why one would elaborate on his ideas if one
didn't agree with them and want to spread them.

There's also the question of the adjectives. Is "Marxian
theory" different from "Marxist theory"?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Adam Funk]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Silvano

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

..
Thanks. Does that mean a Marxian is a kind of Marxist?
I don't see why one would elaborate on his ideas if one
didn't agree with them and want to spread them.

I'm sure there's a comedy sketch where someone says something like
"You're welcome to teach Marx and Engels as long as you make it clear
that they are wrong."

(I thought this was in a version of "The Bruces" but I can't find it
online now.)

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Silvano
Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

..
Thanks. Does that mean a Marxian is a kind of Marxist?
I don't see why one would elaborate on his ideas if one
didn't agree with them and want to spread them.

Marx has had an impact on our lives. That makes it relevant to study him
and his writings for historical reasons.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Silvano
Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

..
Thanks. Does that mean a Marxian is a kind of Marxist?
I don't see why one would elaborate on his ideas if one
didn't agree with them and want to spread them.

Marx has had an impact on our lives. That makes it relevant to study him
and his writings for historical reasons.

Study, sure, but elaborate?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 19:29:31 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Silvano
Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

..
Thanks. Does that mean a Marxian is a kind of Marxist?
I don't see why one would elaborate on his ideas if one
didn't agree with them and want to spread them.

Marx has had an impact on our lives. That makes it relevant to study him
and his writings for historical reasons.

Yes.

And that is why I believe that it might be possible to speak about
"Cultural Marxism" in a legitimate way, and not as a rabid right
screech slogan.

So one can identify Marxian (rather than Marxist) influences in wider
culture where people have been influenced by Marx's ideas, even if
they do not accept all his economic theories.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Silvano

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

..
Thanks.  Does that mean a Marxian is a kind of Marxist?
I don't see why one would elaborate on his ideas if one
didn't agree with them and want to spread them.

There are many Christians who hold views which don't _seem_ to line up
terribly well with the acts & words of Christ - as recorded in the New
Testament.
I don't see why Marx should get better treatment.

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 02:51:16 +0200, Silvano

Post by Silvano

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

I've occasionally wondered.

Marxian: someone who reads and elaborates on the writings of Karl Marx.
Marxist: someone who agrees with the ideas expressed by Karl Marx and
tries to spread them.

Thank you.

[bertietaylor]

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.

Means anything and everything anti-Arya. Meaning whatever works against
noble thoughts, modesty, traditions, family, nation, class and caste,
all forms of elitism, individualism, spirituality, religion, politeness
etc.

It is also anti-Nature.

It is pro the lowest common denominator of humanity and is represented
by angry criminals.

Post by Steve Hayes
Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

[Rich Ulrich]

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.

Means anything and everything anti-Arya. Meaning whatever works against
noble thoughts, modesty, traditions, family, nation, class and caste,
all forms of elitism, individualism, spirituality, religion, politeness
etc.

My impression is that the term "cultural Marxism" is only used
as a generalized smear. If asked for a definition, those speakers
are apt to toss together a bunch of words without any care for
making sense. So, the definition given above may be fairly typical
for someone naming what they personally LIKE; and they shout
that Marxists must be opposed to them.

It may be that "class and caste, and all forms of elitism" made
it into the list as a nod to what Marx is known for, since elitism
is not something most people admit to favoring. I think Marx
did dislike organized religion when it served as a tool for
oppression.

Post by bertietaylor
It is also anti-Nature.

Culturall Marxists want feral capitalists to tear up National Parks?
- it does not seem reasonable to unite those categories.

Post by bertietaylor
It is pro the lowest common denominator of humanity and is represented
by angry criminals.

The "angry criminals" that catch my attention in the US are
Trump and the domestic terrorists he is grooming, i.e., the
white nationalists.

Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Steve Hayes
Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

Someone explained that Marxian means, "studies Marx" without
any preference. I don't remember hearing it.

[Silvano]

Post by Rich Ulrich
Someone explained that Marxian means, "studies Marx" without
any preference. I don't remember hearing it.

In English? See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxian>
In Italian: see
<https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/marxiano/?search=marxiano%2F>
and
<https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/marxista/?search=marxista%2F>

The definitions are so short that you can perhaps understand them, even
if they're written in Italian.

F'up to AUE only. I don't know about alt.culture, but similar groups in
German and Italian attract crackpots like pollen attracts bees.

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] F'up to AUE only. I don't know about alt.culture, but similar groups
in German and Italian attract crackpots like pollen attracts bees.

Off topic; what German groups are active these days? I subscribe to
de.etc.sprache.misc and de.sci.medizin.misc and they’re both fairly dead.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Off topic; what German groups are active these days? I subscribe to
de.etc.sprache.misc and de.sci.medizin.misc and they’re both fairly dead.

de.etc.sprache.deutsch is alive and well.

[Silvano]

Post by Aidan Kehoe

[...] F'up to AUE only. I don't know about alt.culture, but similar groups
in German and Italian attract crackpots like pollen attracts bees.

Off topic; what German groups are active these days? I subscribe to
de.etc.sprache.misc and de.sci.medizin.misc and they’re both fairly dead.

de.etc.sprache.deutsch is very active. Also de.comp.os.ms-windows.misc.

In some other groups there are several postings per day only from time
to time. And I don't follow at all most German groups, I'm not
interested e.g. in de.soc.drogen or de.talk.tagesgeschehen (events of
the day). The second one was and probably still is frequently used by
crossposting weirds.

[bertietaylor]

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.

Means anything and everything anti-Arya. Meaning whatever works against
noble thoughts, modesty, traditions, family, nation, class and caste,
all forms of elitism, individualism, spirituality, religion, politeness
etc.

My impression is that the term "cultural Marxism" is only used
as a generalized smear. If asked for a definition, those speakers
are apt to toss together a bunch of words without any care for
making sense. So, the definition given above may be fairly typical
for someone naming what they personally LIKE; and they shout
that Marxists must be opposed to them.

More an impression than a definition, above.
"Shameless bastards" works better at definition.

Post by Rich Ulrich
It may be that "class and caste, and all forms of elitism" made
it into the list as a nod to what Marx is known for, since elitism
is not something most people admit to favoring. I think Marx
did dislike organized religion when it served as a tool for
oppression.

Marx was a Jew first and foremost. He was clever enough to know that
Jew-derived religions were imperilled by science on one hand and the
fascination of oriental thought on the other. Getting rid of all
religion while hanging on to his own was his strategy. Which worked well
with the rise of Zionism.

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor
It is also anti-Nature.

Culturall Marxists want feral capitalists to tear up National Parks?
- it does not seem reasonable to unite those categories.

They are two sides of the same coin.

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor
It is pro the lowest common denominator of humanity and is represented
by angry criminals.

The "angry criminals" that catch my attention in the US are
Trump and the domestic terrorists he is grooming, i.e., the
white nationalists.

Sorry to find that the US cannot put up anyone nit even 10% of the
blessed Arindam.

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

LCD here refers to lazy, jealous, unsporting, mean, abusive, greedy
sorts who will vote for those who offer freebies and promises of more
while denouncing all those better off.

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Steve Hayes
Does anyone know what it means? Can you explain it?
And is there a difference between "Marxian" and "Marxist"?

Understanding from a Shameless Bastard point of view vis-a-vis Shameless
Bastard.

Post by Rich Ulrich
Someone explained that Marxian means, "studies Marx" without
any preference. I don't remember hearing it.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 13:34:05 +0000, ***@myyahoo.com
(bertietaylor) wrote:

me>

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

LCD here refers to lazy, jealous, unsporting, mean, abusive, greedy
sorts who will vote for those who offer freebies and promises of more
while denouncing all those better off.

I think I claim: the description is so elastic that TRUMP is arguably
the foremost Cultural Marxist in the US - not what they want to say.

I've long been nonplussed at the fact that Trump exemplifies 6
or all 7 of the Seven Deadly Sins yet claims a core constituency
who have pride in being Christian. Changed standards?

- "Laziness" - I noted Trump's frequent golfing; I was late to
credit his industriousness; I finally took note of what must
have been hundreds of hours on the phone, working to hijack
the 2020 election. One gloss on "sloth" suggested something like
inattention to what God wants, by which Trump would be a star;
but most of what I've seen on sloth (or "acedia") would leave
him out. So he is probably tops on only 6 of the 7.

The seven: pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth.
That's got pretty good overlap with the above: jealous, unsporting,
mean, abusive, greedy. "Unsporting" and "abusive" seem to imply
a dimension of what, social standards? Do they show up in Dante?
My critique of Trump to Christians always includes "bearing false
witness" (from the 10 Commandments), where Trump is the
overwhelming champ. Examples abound.

By the above, Trump epitomizes the character of Cultural Marxists.


I think the folks saying "Cultural Marxists" are on Trump's side.
Showing he is one? - is not what they want. But there was more:


"... offer freebies" does not help a lot. The longest running
hoax in US politics is the claim that cutting taxes (especially for
the rich) will create jobs AND balance the budget. Ha!

And, "... denouncing all those better off" seems like a description
of the anti-woke campaign. JD Vance denounces universities, the
best media, the top brass of the Pentagon, 'woke' corporations,
and (it seems to me) the best people.

[bertietaylor]

Post by Rich Ulrich
me>

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

LCD here refers to lazy, jealous, unsporting, mean, abusive, greedy
sorts who will vote for those who offer freebies and promises of more
while denouncing all those better off.

I think I claim: the description is so elastic that TRUMP is arguably
the foremost Cultural Marxist in the US - not what they want to say.

So who is Trump describing as better off? Those he wants to deport?
Democrat billionaires? His assassins? Muslims? Chinese?

Post by Rich Ulrich
I've long been nonplussed at the fact that Trump exemplifies 6
or all 7 of the Seven Deadly Sins yet claims a core constituency
who have pride in being Christian. Changed standards?

It is very christian to be steeped in sins and thus be in need of saving
by supporting the christian elites who will forgive all the sins as is
their business. No sins; no scope for saving. No religious hierarchy, no
great churches and paintings and sculptures, etc. Sin is crucial for
Christianity so a sunful life is an asset for any politician seeking
Christian votes.

Perfection is for pagans like Arindam who uses pursuit of perfection and
virtues for a satisfactory sin-free life.

Trump's attraction comes from his living a perfectly ideal life by US
standards. Chaps not deeply jealous about him get vicarious joys. They
vote for Trump for the vicarious joys he gives them.

Thus Trump gets both Christian and regular votes.

Post by Rich Ulrich
- "Laziness" - I noted Trump's frequent golfing; I was late to
credit his industriousness; I finally took note of what must
have been hundreds of hours on the phone, working to hijack
the 2020 election. One gloss on "sloth" suggested something like
inattention to what God wants, by which Trump would be a star;
but most of what I've seen on sloth (or "acedia") would leave
him out. So he is probably tops on only 6 of the 7.

He should take up Basha Pasha. Sacking underlings gives him joy, no
doubt.

Post by Rich Ulrich
The seven: pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth.
That's got pretty good overlap with the above: jealous, unsporting,
mean, abusive, greedy. "Unsporting" and "abusive" seem to imply
a dimension of what, social standards? Do they show up in Dante?
My critique of Trump to Christians always includes "bearing false
witness" (from the 10 Commandments), where Trump is the
overwhelming champ. Examples abound.

Nothing holy water, Hail Marys, donations etc. cannot cure. Its a rich
man's world.
In our e=mcc morally relativistic world of lies, run by liars, it makes
sense to elect the smoothest chappie who can also be funny.

Post by Rich Ulrich
By the above, Trump epitomizes the character of Cultural Marxists.

Trump as a billionaire, admittedly of the low-end type, is still far too
rich to classed as any kind of Marxist. Unless he fits the definition of
"shameless bastard" which yes would make him one.

Post by Rich Ulrich
I think the folks saying "Cultural Marxists" are on Trump's side.
"... offer freebies" does not help a lot. The longest running
hoax in US politics is the claim that cutting taxes (especially for
the rich) will create jobs AND balance the budget. Ha!

Alas, the rich are only greedy and not creative in any positive sense.
So their lack of success. Unfortuntely the poor do not seem any better.

Post by Rich Ulrich
And, "... denouncing all those better off" seems like a description
of the anti-woke campaign. JD Vance denounces universities, the
best media, the top brass of the Pentagon, 'woke' corporations,
and (it seems to me) the best people.

They are the worst people as they have ignored the priceless works of
Arindam for decades. They worship great frauds like Freud, Marx and
Einstein - the three pillars of evil.

Trump for 4 years and Vance for further 8 should turn things around for
tge US.

Woof-woof

Bertietaylor (Arindam's celestial cyberdoggies, pure souls and high
spirits)

[Rich Ulrich]

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
me>

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

LCD here refers to lazy, jealous, unsporting, mean, abusive, greedy
sorts who will vote for those who offer freebies and promises of more
while denouncing all those better off.

I think I claim: the description is so elastic that TRUMP is arguably
the foremost Cultural Marxist in the US - not what they want to say.

So who is Trump describing as better off? Those he wants to deport?

A few paragraphs later, I specify that those "better off" are
the cultural elites who have widespread respect. You join him
in denouncing them -- agreeing, I guess, that he does do that.

Besides that larger cultural aspect, Trump aims his spite at
any individual contrasted to him who looks "better" or is
liked better. Fauci looked intelligent and stable beside Trump,
on-stage during Covid briefings. Obama is regarded as very
intelligent and well-spoken, successful President. McCain, in
Trump's own party, was respected as a war hero and honorable
man.

...

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
By the above, Trump epitomizes the character of Cultural Marxists.

Trump as a billionaire, admittedly of the low-end type, is still far too
rich to classed as any kind of Marxist. Unless he fits the definition of
"shameless bastard" which yes would make him one.

Yes, shameless! You have it! No matter the lies revealed, no
matter the mistakes, Trump NEVER admits to error, to any cause
for shame. His narcissism rules out shame.

Back to Cultural Marxism -- Trump is a billionaire; I figure that
the Cultural Marxism divide (where there is sense) falls along
the regard given to privilege of certain elites. Marx was set
against privilege and power and control residing solely with
money, or with what I call feral capitalists. The greedy rich
and their political apologists are opposed to everyone ordinary.
To maintain power, they generate side-issues and blur the lines.

Demonizing the individuals on the other side seems to be a
common human habit. Those adjectives were not chosen with
any care.

[bertietaylor]

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
me>

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

LCD here refers to lazy, jealous, unsporting, mean, abusive, greedy
sorts who will vote for those who offer freebies and promises of more
while denouncing all those better off.

I think I claim: the description is so elastic that TRUMP is arguably
the foremost Cultural Marxist in the US - not what they want to say.

So who is Trump describing as better off? Those he wants to deport?

A few paragraphs later, I specify that those "better off" are
the cultural elites who have widespread respect.

Not with Arindam though. He sees them as heartless soulless e=mcc
thumping all-polluting watmongering selfish-greedy parasites.

You join him

Post by Rich Ulrich
in denouncing them -- agreeing, I guess, that he does do that.

Hope yet for US.

Post by Rich Ulrich
Besides that larger cultural aspect, Trump aims his spite at
any individual contrasted to him who looks "better" or is
liked better. Fauci looked intelligent and stable beside Trump,
on-stage during Covid briefings. Obama is regarded as very
intelligent and well-spoken, successful President. McCain, in
Trump's own party, was respected as a war hero and honorable
man.

McCain was an ISIS backing devil. Obama was a covert Muslim sucking up
to the billionaires and promoting and continuing wars. Fauci did his
best to spread Covid as the Dems knew that the pandemic would help their
re-election.

Trump is a Saint protected by angels in contrast.

Post by Rich Ulrich
....

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
By the above, Trump epitomizes the character of Cultural Marxists.

No he is a true Christian up against the suave thugs.

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor
Trump as a billionaire, admittedly of the low-end type, is still far too
rich to classed as any kind of Marxist. Unless he fits the definition of
"shameless bastard" which yes would make him one.

Yes, shameless! You have it! No matter the lies revealed, no
matter the mistakes, Trump NEVER admits to error, to any cause
for shame. His narcissism rules out shame.

What should he be ashamed of? Spreading a pandemic? 9-11 explosions?
Moon landing hoax? WMD in Iraq? War in Afghanistan for no reason?
Vietnam war lies? Panama venture? Financial crisis? Getting Ukraine
destroyed? Coup in Bangladesh?

Post by Rich Ulrich
Back to Cultural Marxism -- Trump is a billionaire; I figure that
the Cultural Marxism divide (where there is sense) falls along
the regard given to privilege of certain elites. Marx was set
against privilege and power and control residing solely with
money, or with what I call feral capitalists. The greedy rich
and their political apologists are opposed to everyone ordinary.
To maintain power, they generate side-issues and blur the lines.
Demonizing the individuals on the other side seems to be a
common human habit. Those adjectives were not chosen with
any care.

[Ross Clark]

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
me>

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"?   Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

LCD here refers to lazy, jealous, unsporting, mean, abusive, greedy
sorts who will vote for those who offer freebies and promises of more
while denouncing all those better off.

I think I claim: the description is so elastic that TRUMP is arguably
the foremost Cultural Marxist in the US - not what they want to say.

So who is Trump describing as better off? Those he wants to deport?

A few paragraphs later, I specify that those "better off" are
the cultural elites who have widespread respect.

Not with Arindam though. He sees them as heartless soulless e=mcc
thumping all-polluting watmongering selfish-greedy parasites.
You join him

Post by Rich Ulrich
in denouncing them -- agreeing, I guess, that he does do that.

Hope yet for US.

Post by Rich Ulrich
Besides that larger cultural aspect, Trump aims his spite at
any individual contrasted to him who looks "better" or is
liked better.  Fauci looked intelligent and stable beside Trump,
on-stage during Covid briefings. Obama is regarded as very
intelligent and well-spoken, successful President. McCain, in
Trump's own party, was respected as a war hero and honorable
man.

McCain was an ISIS backing devil. Obama was a covert Muslim sucking up
to the billionaires and promoting and continuing wars. Fauci did his
best to spread Covid as the Dems knew that the pandemic would help their
re-election.

Hindus will believe anything.

Post by bertietaylor
Trump is a Saint protected by angels in contrast.

Post by Rich Ulrich
....

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
By the above, Trump epitomizes the character of Cultural Marxists.

No he is a true Christian up against the suave thugs.

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor
Trump as a billionaire, admittedly of the low-end type, is still far too
rich to classed as any kind of Marxist. Unless he fits the definition of
"shameless bastard" which yes would make him one.

Yes, shameless!  You have it!  No matter the lies revealed, no
matter the mistakes, Trump NEVER admits to error, to any cause
for shame.  His narcissism rules out shame.

What should he be ashamed of? Spreading a pandemic? 9-11 explosions?
Moon landing hoax? WMD in Iraq? War in Afghanistan for no reason?
Vietnam war lies? Panama venture? Financial crisis? Getting Ukraine
destroyed? Coup in Bangladesh?

Post by Rich Ulrich
Back to Cultural Marxism -- Trump is a billionaire; I figure that
the Cultural Marxism divide (where there is sense) falls along
the regard given to privilege of certain elites.  Marx was set
against privilege and power and control residing solely with
 money, or with what I call feral capitalists.  The greedy rich
and their political apologists are opposed to everyone ordinary.
To maintain power, they generate side-issues and blur the lines.
Demonizing the individuals on the other side seems to be a
common human habit.  Those adjectives were not chosen with
any care.

[bertietaylor]

Post by Ross Clark

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
me>

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"?   Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

LCD here refers to lazy, jealous, unsporting, mean, abusive, greedy
sorts who will vote for those who offer freebies and promises of more
while denouncing all those better off.

I think I claim: the description is so elastic that TRUMP is arguably
the foremost Cultural Marxist in the US - not what they want to say.

So who is Trump describing as better off? Those he wants to deport?

A few paragraphs later, I specify that those "better off" are
the cultural elites who have widespread respect.

Not with Arindam though. He sees them as heartless soulless e=mcc
thumping all-polluting watmongering selfish-greedy parasites.
You join him

Post by Rich Ulrich
in denouncing them -- agreeing, I guess, that he does do that.

Hope yet for US.

Post by Rich Ulrich
Besides that larger cultural aspect, Trump aims his spite at
any individual contrasted to him who looks "better" or is
liked better.  Fauci looked intelligent and stable beside Trump,
on-stage during Covid briefings. Obama is regarded as very
intelligent and well-spoken, successful President. McCain, in
Trump's own party, was respected as a war hero and honorable
man.

McCain was an ISIS backing devil. Obama was a covert Muslim sucking up
to the billionaires and promoting and continuing wars. Fauci did his
best to spread Covid as the Dems knew that the pandemic would help their
re-election.

Hindus will believe anything.

Are you sure?
There are 1000000000 of them despite the best efforts of antiHindus for
many centuries.

Post by Ross Clark

Post by bertietaylor
Trump is a Saint protected by angels in contrast.

Post by Rich Ulrich
....

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Rich Ulrich
By the above, Trump epitomizes the character of Cultural Marxists.

No he is a true Christian up against the suave thugs.

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor
Trump as a billionaire, admittedly of the low-end type, is still far too
rich to classed as any kind of Marxist. Unless he fits the definition of
"shameless bastard" which yes would make him one.

Yes, shameless!  You have it!  No matter the lies revealed, no
matter the mistakes, Trump NEVER admits to error, to any cause
for shame.  His narcissism rules out shame.

What should he be ashamed of? Spreading a pandemic? 9-11 explosions?
Moon landing hoax? WMD in Iraq? War in Afghanistan for no reason?
Vietnam war lies? Panama venture? Financial crisis? Getting Ukraine
destroyed? Coup in Bangladesh?

Post by Rich Ulrich
Back to Cultural Marxism -- Trump is a billionaire; I figure that
the Cultural Marxism divide (where there is sense) falls along
the regard given to privilege of certain elites.  Marx was set
against privilege and power and control residing solely with
 money, or with what I call feral capitalists.  The greedy rich
and their political apologists are opposed to everyone ordinary.
To maintain power, they generate side-issues and blur the lines.
Demonizing the individuals on the other side seems to be a
common human habit.  Those adjectives were not chosen with
any care.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.

..

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor
It is pro the lowest common denominator of humanity and is represented
by angry criminals.

..

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

..

I think it's just an expression that happens to contain
"lowest" and "common". Denominators aren't relevant.
Sometimes "common" there probably means "common to all
humanity"--say a movie that appeals to lust, fear, and
anger, which pretty much everyone experiences--and
sometimes it's "common" the opposite of "noble".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Rich Ulrich]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.

..

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor
It is pro the lowest common denominator of humanity and is represented
by angry criminals.

..

Post by Rich Ulrich
Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor
fits, "lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the
simplest of mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might
be, "the worst DNA of humanity" (cross-thread reference).

..
I think it's just an expression that happens to contain
"lowest" and "common". Denominators aren't relevant.
Sometimes "common" there probably means "common to all
humanity"--say a movie that appeals to lust, fear, and
anger, which pretty much everyone experiences--and
sometimes it's "common" the opposite of "noble".

I rather like that, "denominators aren't relevant."


So I muse..., appealing to the lowest common < instincts?>
lacked a good word to end on; "denominator" was familiar
from the classroom and had only a fuzzy meaning, so it
gave a familiar phrase.

Perhaps someone once tossed out, "appealing to the lowest
common denomination" as a cynical slur on churches, but
that was too harsh to survive. [and, no Google hits, even
after clicking the rejected original.]

[Peter Moylan]

Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor fits,
"lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the simplest of
mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might be, "the worst DNA of
humanity" (cross-thread reference).

Lowest common denominator just means "something I learnt at school but I
can't remember what it means".

[bertietaylor]

Post by Peter Moylan

Depite having seen it before, I can't figure how the metaphor fits,
"lowest common denominator" -- Does that mean "the simplest of
mentalities"? Maybe the modern metaphor might be, "the worst DNA of
humanity" (cross-thread reference).

Lowest common denominator just means "something I learnt at school but I
can't remember what it means".

Hcf and Lcd may be synonymous. We were taught LCM and HCF at school. 48
and 4 respectively for integers 12 and 16. With passage of time there
seems an set intersection of sorts has taken place. Sorta unconsciously.
The highest sound in hcf does not agree with the nature of contempt to
be directed at the lowest of the polloi.

Woof-woof

Bertietaylor (what fools these apes be!)

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 22:36:09 -0400, Rich Ulrich

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by bertietaylor

Post by Steve Hayes
I quite often come across references to "cultural Marxisim" but
haven't yet seen a convincing definition.

Means anything and everything anti-Arya. Meaning whatever works against
noble thoughts, modesty, traditions, family, nation, class and caste,
all forms of elitism, individualism, spirituality, religion, politeness
etc.

My impression is that the term "cultural Marxism" is only used
as a generalized smear. If asked for a definition, those speakers
are apt to toss together a bunch of words without any care for
making sense.

Yes, that is my impression too, and it is why I avoid using it.

But I recently thought of a way in which the phrase *could* make
sense, but wanted to check with a wider group of English-speaking to
people to check whether it was too skunked to bother even trying.

[Madhu]

Post by Steve Hayes
Yes, that is my impression too, and it is why I avoid using it.
But I recently thought of a way in which the phrase *could* make
sense, but wanted to check with a wider group of English-speaking to
people to check whether it was too skunked to bother even trying.

"yes"