Attribution, ascription, substitution

[Steve Hayes]

I keep hearing people saying things with weird prepositions.

Do others find these prepositions weird, or is it just me?

Attribution

Today on TV (BBC Brit):

"Which French fashion designer is attributed with the saying...?"

In MyE, you can attribute something *to* someone, but you can't
attribute someone *with* something.

You can attribute a saying to a fashion designer, but you can't
attribute a fashion designer with a saying.

Ascription

I see on Usenet and elsewhere on line people saying "I don't ascribe
to X."

In MyE you can ascribe something to someone, but you can't ascribe to
something.

You can ascribe glory to God, but you can't say "I don't ascribe to
glory."

I suspect that in this instance, "ascribe" may be a malapropism for
"subscribe".

Subtitution

I hear people saying things like "I substituted butter with
margarine."

In MyE you can subtitute something *for* something, but not *with*
something.

If I substitute margarine for butter, it means I've replaced butter
with margarine.

I substitute margarine for butter, because margarine is the substitute
for butter.

If I replace butter with margarine, then margarine is the replacement
for butter.

This one could be dangerous. For example, if someone has a heart
attack, you should give them aspirin, but subtituting paracetamol for
aspirin would do no good and might be harmful in those circumstances.

Or is it just me?

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] This one could be dangerous. For example, if someone has a heart
attack, you should give them aspirin, but subtituting paracetamol for
aspirin would do no good and might be harmful in those circumstances.
Or is it just me?

No, aspirin is helpful for everyone in heart attacks, not just you.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Steve Hayes
I keep hearing people saying things with weird prepositions.
Do others find these prepositions weird, or is it just me?
Attribution
"Which French fashion designer is attributed with the saying...?"
In MyE, you can attribute something *to* someone, but you can't
attribute someone *with* something.

..

Reminiscent of "presented with" (probably standard),
"awarded with", and maybe others.

Post by Steve Hayes
Ascription
I see on Usenet and elsewhere on line people saying "I don't ascribe
to X."
In MyE you can ascribe something to someone, but you can't ascribe to
something.

..

Post by Steve Hayes
I suspect that in this instance, "ascribe" may be a malapropism for
"subscribe".
Subtitution
I hear people saying things like "I substituted butter with
margarine."

That one always makes me wonder whether the speaker has
been influenced by non-native speakers.

Post by Steve Hayes
In MyE you can subtitute something *for* something, but not *with*
something.

..

Post by Steve Hayes
This one could be dangerous. For example, if someone has a heart
attack, you should give them aspirin, but subtituting paracetamol for
aspirin would do no good and might be harmful in those circumstances.

I don't see the danger in the grammatical construction.

Post by Steve Hayes
Or is it just me?

I agree with all of those.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[Steve Hayes]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
I hear people saying things like "I substituted butter with
margarine."

That one always makes me wonder whether the speaker has
been influenced by non-native speakers.

Post by Steve Hayes
In MyE you can subtitute something *for* something, but not *with*
something.

..

Post by Steve Hayes
This one could be dangerous. For example, if someone has a heart
attack, you should give them aspirin, but subtituting paracetamol for
aspirin would do no good and might be harmful in those circumstances.

I don't see the danger in the grammatical construction.

I was was thinking of something like:

Paracetamol can be substituted for aspirin, except in the case of a
heart attack.

Paracetamol can be substituted with aspirin, except in the case of a
heart attack.

[lar3ryca]

Post by Steve Hayes
I keep hearing people saying things with weird prepositions.
Do others find these prepositions weird, or is it just me?
Attribution
"Which French fashion designer is attributed with the saying...?"
In MyE, you can attribute something *to* someone, but you can't
attribute someone *with* something.
You can attribute a saying to a fashion designer, but you can't
attribute a fashion designer with a saying.
Ascription
I see on Usenet and elsewhere on line people saying "I don't ascribe
to X."
In MyE you can ascribe something to someone, but you can't ascribe to
something.
You can ascribe glory to God, but you can't say "I don't ascribe to
glory."
I suspect that in this instance, "ascribe" may be a malapropism for
"subscribe".
Subtitution
I hear people saying things like "I substituted butter with
margarine."
In MyE you can subtitute something *for* something, but not *with*
something.
If I substitute margarine for butter, it means I've replaced butter
with margarine.
I substitute margarine for butter, because margarine is the substitute
for butter.
If I replace butter with margarine, then margarine is the replacement
for butter.
This one could be dangerous. For example, if someone has a heart
attack, you should give them aspirin, but subtituting paracetamol for
aspirin would do no good and might be harmful in those circumstances.
Or is it just me?

Drives me batty too. I will cut some slack for ordinary folks, but not
when I hear people who are paid to speak clearly and correctly
(newsreaders, for example),do it.

"In connection to" is very common these says.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Steve Hayes
I see on Usenet and elsewhere on line people saying "I don't ascribe
to X."
In MyE you can ascribe something to someone, but you can't ascribe
to something.

That's simple confusion with "subscribe".

In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

incur

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

incur

Thread merge with "Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."

[lar3ryca]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

incur

Thread merge with "Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."

<applause!>

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

Incur.

[charles]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

incur?

[Snidely]

Post by charles

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

incur?

Ah, I'd like the rewrite "Use a credit card and a surcharge will
occur."

-d

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's simple confusion with "subscribe".
In my local fish and chip shop there is a sign "Using credit card will
occur a surchage". One of the shop owners has good English, but I guess
some words are just too difficult for learners.

Now I'm so stuck on "occur" that I can't remember the correct word. What
is it?

Incur.