Discussion:
[try it on for size] --- this was so common in the movies of the 1950s, 1960s
(too old to reply)
HenHanna
2024-11-13 22:26:00 UTC
Permalink
[try it on for size] --- this was so common in the movies of the
1950s, 1960s
___________
« Voici une question à votre mesure. »
The phrase "Give it to me, and fast" reflects the terse, urgent dialogue
characteristic of film noir, which flourished from the 1940s to the
1950s.


I was going nowhere fast.

give me expressions like Silver-tongued --- common in Noir films, now
rare

"Tight-lipped" - Referring to someone who is secretive or unwilling to
share information.
"Hard-boiled" - Describing a tough, uncompromising character, often a
detective or anti-hero.

"On the lam" - Meaning to be on the run or escaping from the law.

"In the crosshairs" - Indicating someone who is in danger or being
targeted.
"Caught between a rock and a hard place" - Facing a difficult dilemma
with no good options.

"Throwing in the towel" - Surrendering or giving up, often after a
struggle.


"The big sleep" - A euphemism for death, famously used in Raymond
Chandler's works.

_________________________ interesting! i never think of it other than
as the movie title.

dame, broad

on the level

on the QT

stick to you like white on rice

guilty as sin

safe as churches

"the law"

"throw the book at"

hang for it

the big house

"Who wants to know?"
"Who's asking?"



Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the
early 20th century, particularly in American slang.

It is believed to derive from the term "broad-shouldered," which was
used to describe a woman with a strong, robust physique.


Connotation: Initially, the term may have had a neutral or even
affectionate connotation, but over time, it has often been viewed as
derogatory or objectifying, depending on the context in which it is
used.

Cultural Context: The slang gained popularity in the 1920s and
was commonly used in jazz culture and among the urban working class.

________________________

Does a [Blue Note] signify a Jazz chord?


Yes, a blue note is a musical term commonly used in jazz, as well as in
blues and other genres.

Definition:

Blue Note: Typically refers to a note that is sung or played at
a slightly lower pitch than the standard pitch. In the context of jazz,
blue notes are often the third, fifth, or seventh notes of a scale,
flattened to create a more expressive sound.


Context in Jazz:

Chords: Blue notes are frequently incorporated into jazz chords,
giving them a distinct, soulful character. For example, a major chord
may include a flattened third (the blue note), transforming it into a
more complex and emotionally rich sound.


_______________________


Louis Armstrong used the phrase "blue it up" in reference to the song
"When the Saints Go Marching In."

In this context, he encouraged musicians to add a soulful, bluesy feel
to the traditional piece, transforming it with jazz elements.

Context:

"When the Saints Go Marching In": This song is a gospel hymn that became
popular in jazz, especially associated with New Orleans jazz.

Armstrong's version highlights improvisation and emotional expression.
Rich Ulrich
2024-11-14 05:49:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by HenHanna
Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the
early 20th century, particularly in American slang.
It is believed to derive from the term "broad-shouldered," which was
used to describe a woman with a strong, robust physique.
I didn't see "broad-shouldered" in anything Google high-lighted.

Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.

What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag. When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall. Or, an obvious Adam's apple.
--
Rich Ulrich
Bebercito
2024-11-14 06:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by HenHanna
Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the
early 20th century, particularly in American slang.
It is believed to derive from the term "broad-shouldered," which was
used to describe a woman with a strong, robust physique.
I didn't see "broad-shouldered" in anything Google high-lighted.
Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag. When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
Post by Rich Ulrich
Or, an obvious Adam's apple.
Peter Moylan
2024-11-14 07:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
This construct is relatively common in English. Six foot under, five
mile down the road, and so on. I have a vague memory of reading that
this is a remnant of the Anglo-Saxon genitive plural.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
Rich Ulrich
2024-11-14 18:07:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
This construct is relatively common in English. Six foot under, five
mile down the road, and so on. I have a vague memory of reading that
this is a remnant of the Anglo-Saxon genitive plural.
I sounded it out several times before I decided that "6-foot"
sounded better to me -- sounded like what my friend Bill must
have said at the time. (He was born and raised in Baltimore.)

In my Texas (Panhandle) background, I think "6-foot" ruled,
but 50 years in Pittsburgh (academic environment of university
and hospital) might lead me to "6-feet" in a different context.
--
Rich Ulrich
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-11-14 18:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
This construct is relatively common in English. Six foot under, five
mile down the road, and so on. I have a vague memory of reading that
this is a remnant of the Anglo-Saxon genitive plural.
I sounded it out several times before I decided that "6-foot"
sounded better to me -- sounded like what my friend Bill must
have said at the time. (He was born and raised in Baltimore.)
In my Texas (Panhandle) background, I think "6-foot" ruled,
but 50 years in Pittsburgh (academic environment of university
and hospital) might lead me to "6-feet" in a different context.
I have an idea that irregular plurals (like feet) are more likely to be
used adjectivally. However, I have no data to justify this idea.
--
Athel cb
Hibou
2024-11-14 08:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
"In front of another noun, the plural for the unit of length is /foot/:
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
of /feet/ when mentioning a quantity and in front of words like /tall/:
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>

The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
Or, an obvious Adam's apple.
Or big hands. Or - ha! - twelve-inch or one-foot feet.
jerryfriedman
2024-11-14 15:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>
That's wrong. In attributive compounds, the singular is
normal, especially after numbers. A five-mile walk,
a seven-piece band, a three-person job, a two-feather
hobbit, an eleven-year-old boy, a hundred=year flood,
many-body physics.

There are a few exceptions, such as the two knights
defense in chess.

(There's also a version with -ed, as in "six-legged
arthropods".)
Post by Hibou
The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."
..

That's a lot better.

--
Jerry Friedman

--
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-11-14 16:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>
That's wrong. In attributive compounds, the singular is
normal, especially after numbers. A five-mile walk,
a seven-piece band, a three-person job, a two-feather
hobbit, an eleven-year-old boy, a hundred=year flood,
many-body physics.
There are a few exceptions, such as the two knights
defense in chess.
Sportsjacket in the UK, but I think it's sportjacket in the USA.
Post by jerryfriedman
(There's also a version with -ed, as in "six-legged
arthropods".)
Post by Hibou
The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."
..
That's a lot better.
--
Jerry Friedman
--
Athel cb
Tony Cooper
2024-11-14 17:30:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 17:13:58 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>
That's wrong. In attributive compounds, the singular is
normal, especially after numbers. A five-mile walk,
a seven-piece band, a three-person job, a two-feather
hobbit, an eleven-year-old boy, a hundred=year flood,
many-body physics.
There are a few exceptions, such as the two knights
defense in chess.
Sportsjacket in the UK, but I think it's sportjacket in the USA.
I don't think I've ever seen/heard either in the US. I describe my
blue blazer as a "sport coat".

Google accepts "sportsjacket" as a search term, but the Macy's ad the
search turns up shows a "Sport Coat".

https://www.macys.com/shop/mens-clothing/all-mens-clothing/mens-blazers-sports-coats?id=16499

The link, though, add an "s" to "sport".

A "jacket", in the US, is worn for warmth. A "sport coat" or "sports
coat" is worn as attire.
Ken Blake
2024-11-15 15:21:08 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 12:30:46 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 17:13:58 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>
That's wrong. In attributive compounds, the singular is
normal, especially after numbers. A five-mile walk,
a seven-piece band, a three-person job, a two-feather
hobbit, an eleven-year-old boy, a hundred=year flood,
many-body physics.
There are a few exceptions, such as the two knights
defense in chess.
Sportsjacket in the UK, but I think it's sportjacket in the USA.
I don't think I've ever seen/heard either in the US. I describe my
blue blazer as a "sport coat".
Google accepts "sportsjacket" as a search term, but the Macy's ad the
search turns up shows a "Sport Coat".
https://www.macys.com/shop/mens-clothing/all-mens-clothing/mens-blazers-sports-coats?id=16499
The link, though, add an "s" to "sport".
A "jacket", in the US, is worn for warmth. A "sport coat" or "sports
coat" is worn as attire.
For you, and perhaps it's true in some parts of the USA. But not for
me. I say "sport jacket," and that's what I'm used to hearing.
lar3ryca
2024-11-15 16:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 12:30:46 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 17:13:58 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>
That's wrong. In attributive compounds, the singular is
normal, especially after numbers. A five-mile walk,
a seven-piece band, a three-person job, a two-feather
hobbit, an eleven-year-old boy, a hundred=year flood,
many-body physics.
There are a few exceptions, such as the two knights
defense in chess.
Sportsjacket in the UK, but I think it's sportjacket in the USA.
I don't think I've ever seen/heard either in the US. I describe my
blue blazer as a "sport coat".
Google accepts "sportsjacket" as a search term, but the Macy's ad the
search turns up shows a "Sport Coat".
https://www.macys.com/shop/mens-clothing/all-mens-clothing/mens-blazers-sports-coats?id=16499
The link, though, add an "s" to "sport".
A "jacket", in the US, is worn for warmth. A "sport coat" or "sports
coat" is worn as attire.
For you, and perhaps it's true in some parts of the USA. But not for
me. I say "sport jacket," and that's what I'm used to hearing.
I can't recall ever hearing the terms 'sport coat' or 'sports coat' in
Canada. It's always a 'sport jacket'.

By itself, a 'jacket' is for warmth.
--
“If I had nine of my fingers missing I wouldn’t type any slower.”
—Mitch Hedberg
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-11-15 17:39:23 UTC
Permalink
On 2024-11-15 16:56:17 +0000, lar3ryca said:

(in his signature text)

“If I had nine of my fingers missing I wouldn’t type any slower.”
—Mitch Hedberg

Very nice. Almost applies to me, though I need my left index finger
functional for holding the shift, command or alt key down while typing
with my right index finger.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
Anders D. Nygaard
2024-11-15 19:41:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by lar3ryca
I can't recall ever hearing the terms 'sport coat' or 'sports coat' in
Canada. It's always a 'sport jacket'.
Not even a white one? With a pink carnation?

/Anders, Denmark
lar3ryca
2024-11-15 20:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by lar3ryca
I can't recall ever hearing the terms 'sport coat' or 'sports coat' in
Canada. It's always a 'sport jacket'.
Not even a white one? With a pink carnation?
You got me there. I think that's the only place I heard it, and I still
haven't heard any Canadians say it (Marty Robbins was American).
--
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
Hibou
2024-11-14 16:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>
That's wrong.  In attributive compounds, the singular is
normal, especially after numbers.  A five-mile walk,
a seven-piece band, a three-person job, a two-feather
hobbit, an eleven-year-old boy, a hundred=year flood,
many-body physics.
There are a few exceptions, such as the two knights
defense in chess.
(There's also a version with -ed, as in "six-legged
arthropods".)
Post by Hibou
The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."
..
That's a lot better.
I agree.
Bebercito
2024-11-14 21:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
What a "broad-shouldered" dame reminds me of: 55 years ago,
a pal was driving us through the entertainment district of
Baltimore and he started pointing out to me which of the
apparent prostitutes were men in drag.  When I asked how
he knew, he started with the strong clue, Broad shoulders.
Also, ones who were over 6-foot tall.
"6 feet tall", as the phrase is predicative?
/a 20-foot putt/; /his 70-foot ketch/. /Foot/ can also be used instead
/four foot of snow/; /he is at least six foot tall/" -
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/foot>
The OED puts it differently: "Often in singular when preceded by
numbers... /The Cross 15 Foot and an half high, and very near 6 Foot
across/ [De Laune, 1681]...."
IMHO, both explanations miss the point, which is that with an
"attributive" construction where the adjectival phrase (in this
case a number followed by an adjective) can be placed before
or after the noun (as with the Cross in your example), the singular
is used in the adjectival phrase, whereas with a "predicative"
construction, where the adjectival phrase follows a copula
(e.g. "is", "becomes"...), the noun is in the plural (that is if
the number in the adjectival phrase is greater than one).
Post by Hibou
Post by Bebercito
Post by Rich Ulrich
Or, an obvious Adam's apple.
Or big hands. Or - ha! - twelve-inch or one-foot feet.
--
Christian Weisgerber
2024-11-14 16:13:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by HenHanna
Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the
early 20th century, particularly in American slang.
Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.
That's the sort of thing you look up in _Green’s Dictionary of Slang_
https://greensdictofslang.com/
... which unfortunately doesn't provide a definitive answer either
in this case.

The slang term is typically rendered as "Braut" into German, and I
never gave this any thought because the words are so similar, but
now I notice that "Braut" is of course cognate with "bride", so
"broad" can't really be connected... unless it's a borrowing from
another Germanic language? But neither German "Braut", nor Dutch
"bruid", nor Scandinavian "brud" seem quite right.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Aidan Kehoe
2024-11-14 19:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by HenHanna
Origin: The use of "broad" to refer to a woman dates back to the
early 20th century, particularly in American slang.
Slang sense of "woman" is by 1911, perhaps suggestive of broad
hips, but it also might trace to American English abroadwife, word
for a woman (often a slave) away from her husband.
That's the sort of thing you look up in _Green’s Dictionary of Slang_
https://greensdictofslang.com/
... which unfortunately doesn't provide a definitive answer either
in this case.
The slang term is typically rendered as "Braut" into German, and I
never gave this any thought because the words are so similar, but
now I notice that "Braut" is of course cognate with "bride", so
"broad" can't really be connected... unless it's a borrowing from
another Germanic language? But neither German "Braut", nor Dutch
"bruid", nor Scandinavian "brud" seem quite right.
There’s not reason it can’t be a borrowing (in that sense) from German or from
Dutch, with it being first attested in the US at a point when the recent German
immigrant proportion of the population was as its highest.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
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