"half ten"

[Michael Hamm]

I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
***@math.wustl.edu Fine print:
http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html

[s***@allstream.net]

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.
Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html

You heard it aright.

We had a little joke that if ever we asked what time it was, someone would
reply "Arpers". And as often as not it was (in the vicinity of) -- arpers
10, arpers 12 and so on.

Cheers, Sage

[R H Draney]

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

You're a mathematician, Mike...shirley "half ten" means 5:00?...r

[the Omrud]

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

Entirely normal in UK (and presumably Irish) spoken English. The
Yiddish version you quote follows the German form, which is how we
can confuse Germans into arriving an hour early.

[John Dean]

Post by the Omrud

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to
mean 10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did
I?), inasmuch as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

Entirely normal in UK (and presumably Irish) spoken English. The
Yiddish version you quote follows the German form, which is how we
can confuse Germans into arriving an hour early.

The problem with Germans is *preventing* them from arriving an hour
early.

[Seán O'Leathlóbhair]

Post by the Omrud

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

Entirely normal in UK (and presumably Irish) spoken English. The
Yiddish version you quote follows the German form, which is how we
can confuse Germans into arriving an hour early.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

Seconded, entirely normal on this side of the Atlantic, and provided
that the speaker is a native, it certainly means 10:30.

Once, I arrived in Germany late at night for a meeting the following
morning at 9:00. I was tired and wanted a bit of extra time in bed so
I suggested that we start at "halb neun". Just as my hosts replied:
"Yes, that's a good idea, let's start earlier", I realised my mistake.
Considering their enthusiasm for an early start, it was too
embarrassing to change so instead of getting some extra sleep, I lost
some. That was the last time that I made that mistake.

--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair

[Joe Fineman]

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to
mean 10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did
I?), inasmuch as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

Entirely normal in UK (and presumably Irish) spoken English. The
Yiddish version you quote follows the German form, which is how we
can confuse Germans into arriving an hour early.

So also in Russian: polovina desyatovo, literally "half of-the-tenth"
(hour). There, however, the use of the ordinal (and the genitive
case) makes the interpretation clearer. At 9:30, half of the tenth
hour has passed.

[Mike Lyle]

Joe Fineman wrote:
[...]

Post by Joe Fineman
So also in Russian: polovina desyatovo, literally "half

of-the-tenth"

Post by Joe Fineman
(hour). There, however, the use of the ordinal (and the genitive
case) makes the interpretation clearer. At 9:30, half of the tenth
hour has passed.

[...]

Careful! You'll have the millennium argument started all over again.

[KS]

Post by Joe Fineman
So also in Russian: polovina desyatovo, literally "half of-the-tenth"
(hour). There, however, the use of the ordinal (and the genitive
case) makes the interpretation clearer. At 9:30, half of the tenth
hour has passed.

Isn't some sort of deletion the case here? In Polish we say "pol do
desyatey" (half to ten). The 'do' ('to') is not normally dropped, but the
phrase would be understandable, if a little awkward.

Kamil

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like Yiddish,
it would mean an hour earlier.

[mcv]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like Yiddish,
it would mean an hour earlier.

It's the same in Dutch. In fact, it seems like English is the only language
where "half ten" means 10:30. I'd prefer if you people kept saying "half
past ten", so you won't confuse foreigners as much.


mcv.

[dcw]

Post by mcv
It's the same in Dutch. In fact, it seems like English is the only language
where "half ten" means 10:30. I'd prefer if you people kept saying "half
past ten", so you won't confuse foreigners as much.

The English version is relatively recent. It was not in use when I
studied German (c.1960), so we didn't get confused. I take it to be
just dropping the "past" from "half past", but it never gets extended
to "quarter". I don't use it myself.

David

[John Dean]

Post by dcw

Post by mcv
It's the same in Dutch. In fact, it seems like English is the only
language where "half ten" means 10:30. I'd prefer if you people kept
saying "half past ten", so you won't confuse foreigners as much.

The English version is relatively recent. It was not in use when I
studied German (c.1960), so we didn't get confused. I take it to be
just dropping the "past" from "half past", but it never gets extended
to "quarter". I don't use it myself.
David

Not *that* recent. I was studying German around the same time as you and
our pedagogues, knowing the local vernacular, had to put particular
emphasis on the difference between German and English use because they
knew we would assume "halb sechs" to be "half six" and therefore 30
minutes before seven.
This was Manchester and I've known the "half six" usage since the 50s. I
suspect it's older. Partridge thinks it originated in the Army, was in
use through the C20 and was generally proletarian by mid C20.
OED says of adverbial half "4. Idiomatic uses, in which half is now
adverbial, though probably originally the adj. or n. a. In stating the
time of day, half past (or after) one or one o'clock, etc. = half an
hour past the hour named. (In Scotland, 'half' is often prefixed to the
following hour, as in Ger. halb elf, etc.)"
And they have a cite from 1791 "GROSE Olio (1796) 107 C. Pray what's o'
clock? W. It will be half ten."
and from 1853 "READE Chr. Johnstone 294 Flucker informed her that the
nock said 'half eleven'-Scotch for 'half-past-ten'."

[Steve Hayes]

Post by mcv

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like Yiddish,
it would mean an hour earlier.

It's the same in Dutch. In fact, it seems like English is the only language
where "half ten" means 10:30. I'd prefer if you people kept saying "half
past ten", so you won't confuse foreigners as much.

I think most English spreaking South Africans would say "half past ten" for
10:30, and would not say "half ten", because it sounds like an Afrikaansism
(like "He threw me with a stone"), but would understand "half ten" to mean
9:30. I understood it that way the first time I heard it used (by someone from
England).

[Steve Hayes]

Post by mcv

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like Yiddish,
it would mean an hour earlier.

It's the same in Dutch. In fact, it seems like English is the only language
where "half ten" means 10:30. I'd prefer if you people kept saying "half
past ten", so you won't confuse foreigners as much.

I think most English spreaking South Africans would say "half past ten" for
10:30, and would not say "half ten", because it sounds like an Afrikaansism
(like "He threw me with a stone"), but would understand "half ten" to mean
9:30. I understood it that way the first time I heard it used (by someone from
England).

[Steve Hayes]

Post by mcv

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like Yiddish,
it would mean an hour earlier.

It's the same in Dutch. In fact, it seems like English is the only language
where "half ten" means 10:30. I'd prefer if you people kept saying "half
past ten", so you won't confuse foreigners as much.

I think most English spreaking South Africans would say "half past ten" for
10:30, and would not say "half ten", because it sounds like an Afrikaansism
(like "He threw me with a stone"), but would understand "half ten" to mean
9:30. I understood it that way the first time I heard it used (by someone from
England).

[Steve Hayes]

Post by mcv

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did I?), inasmuch
as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like Yiddish,
it would mean an hour earlier.

It's the same in Dutch. In fact, it seems like English is the only language
where "half ten" means 10:30. I'd prefer if you people kept saying "half
past ten", so you won't confuse foreigners as much.

I think most English spreaking South Africans would say "half past ten" for
10:30, and would not say "half ten", because it sounds like an Afrikaansism
(like "He threw me with a stone"), but would understand "half ten" to mean
9:30. I understood it that way the first time I heard it used (by someone from
England).

[Matti Lamprhey]

"Steve Hayes" <***@hotmail.com> wrote...

FCSSTFU, Steve!!!

Matti

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:52:17 -0000, "Matti Lamprhey"

Post by Matti Lamprhey
FCSSTFU, Steve!!!

HMEUYD, Matti!!!!!

[Skitt]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to
mean 10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did
I?), inasmuch as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like
Yiddish, it would mean an hour earlier.

I think the English are the only ones thinking that "half ten" should fall
halfway from ten to eleven. Strange folk the English.

[Alan Jones]

Post by Skitt

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to
mean 10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did
I?), inasmuch as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like
Yiddish, it would mean an hour earlier.

I think the English are the only ones thinking that "half ten" should fall
halfway from ten to eleven. Strange folk the English.

It's a slangy abbreviation for "half [an hour] past ten" - not so strange,
perhaps. Is it only the English? (Welsh, Irish, Scots, Australians ... ?)

Alan Jones

[Areff]

Post by Alan Jones

Post by Skitt

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to
mean 10:30. I find the usage interesting, if I heard right (did
I?), inasmuch as in Yiddish 'halb tzen' ("half ten") means 9:30.

I've heard English people say the same thing, but in Afrikaans, like
Yiddish, it would mean an hour earlier.

I think the English are the only ones thinking that "half ten" should fall
halfway from ten to eleven. Strange folk the English.

It's a slangy abbreviation for "half [an hour] past ten" - not so strange,
perhaps. Is it only the English? (Welsh, Irish, Scots, Australians ... ?)

Haven't encountered it in AmE, TMK, though "half past ten" is heard (but
I wouldn't expect to hear it from someone born after 1945, say; it's not
natural for me. It's "older generation talk", like "quarter of ten"
(however, I say "quarter to ten").

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Areff
Haven't encountered it in AmE, TMK, though "half past ten" is heard
(but I wouldn't expect to hear it from someone born after 1945, say;
it's not natural for me.

I wouldn't say "half past ten", but an unanchored "half past" (e.g.,
"We'll break at half past") isn't out of the question for me. It
would be especially likely if I had already mentioned an unanchored
"ten after" or the like.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The body was wrapped in duct tape,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |weighted down with concrete blocks
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and a telephone cord was tied
|around the neck. Police suspect
***@hpl.hp.com |foul play...
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[don groves]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Areff
Haven't encountered it in AmE, TMK, though "half past ten" is heard
(but I wouldn't expect to hear it from someone born after 1945, say;
it's not natural for me.

I wouldn't say "half past ten", but an unanchored "half past" (e.g.,
"We'll break at half past") isn't out of the question for me. It
would be especially likely if I had already mentioned an unanchored
"ten after" or the like.

Same here. If asked the time with no prior reference, I'd say
"ten thirty" but if the asker already knew the hour, I'd say
"half past".

[Stewart Gordon]

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

<snip>

It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

Stewart.

[Ida Goode-Johnson]

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

<snip>
It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

S'obvious innit?

"Half ten" is unambiguous as we only ever say "Half past ten", never "Half
to ten".

"Quarter ten" and "Twenty ten" could each mean either of two things.

Ida Goode-Johnson

[Stewart Gordon]

Post by Ida Goode-Johnson

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

<snip>
It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

S'obvious innit?

"S'obvious"?

Post by Ida Goode-Johnson
"Half ten" is unambiguous as we only ever say "Half past ten", never "Half
to ten".
"Quarter ten" and "Twenty ten" could each mean either of two things.

Actually if you take that view, "twenty ten" could mean three things:
twenty past ten, twenty to ten or 20:10. But then again, "twenty to
ten" sounds the same as "22:10".

Stewart.

[Ida Goode-Johnson]

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Ida Goode-Johnson

Post by Stewart Gordon
It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

S'obvious innit?

"S'obvious"?

S'orry!

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Ida Goode-Johnson
"Half ten" is unambiguous as we only ever say "Half past ten", never
"Half to ten".
"Quarter ten" and "Twenty ten" could each mean either of two things.

twenty past ten, twenty to ten or 20:10. But then again, "twenty to ten"
sounds the same as "22:10".

Quite so. In fact "twenty-ten" would probably only ever be used when quoting
something like a train timetable and thus could only mean 20:10.

Ida Goode-Johnson

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Stewart Gordon
twenty past ten, twenty to ten or 20:10. But then again, "twenty to
ten" sounds the same as "22:10".

Not in my dialect, it doesn't. "22" is ['***@ni,tu], while "twenty to"
is ['***@ni *@].
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | is chaunge
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Withinne a thousand yer, and wordes
| tho
***@hpl.hp.com |That hadden prys now wonder nyce and
[phone] | straunge
|Us thenketh hem, and yet they spake
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | hem so
| Chaucer

[R H Draney]

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

<snip>
It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

On either side of the Red River valley (do not hasten to bid me adieu), the
expression is "quarter of ten"...I *think* it means 9:45 and not 10:15; it
puzzled me growing up and it puzzles me yet....

(Jeri Ryan's character on "Star Trek: Voyager" always sounded like she was
saying her name was "8:53")....r

[Ildhund]

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten"
to
mean 10:30.

<snip>
It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people
don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

On a slightly different tack, my mother (County of Lincolnshire,
Parts of Lindsey) always said "five-and-twenty past" when it was
twenty-five past. Danes still use this backwards counting mode, much
to their neighbouring Swedes' confusion, but it's years since I've
heard it in English.

[Stewart Gordon]

Ildhund wrote:
<snip>

Post by Ildhund
On a slightly different tack, my mother (County of Lincolnshire,
Parts of Lindsey) always said "five-and-twenty past" when it was
twenty-five past. Danes still use this backwards counting mode, much
to their neighbouring Swedes' confusion, but it's years since I've
heard it in English.

I guess you got things like "five,-twenty-and-a-hundred" as well?

JTAI, it's a bit like the way numbers are written in Arabic - the same
way round as those in Roman alphabet languages, but little-endian as
they write from right to left. FTM, how do numbers in words work in Arabic?

Stewart.

[Frances Kemmish]

Post by Stewart Gordon
<snip>

On a slightly different tack, my mother (County of Lincolnshire, Parts
of Lindsey) always said "five-and-twenty past" when it was twenty-five
past. Danes still use this backwards counting mode, much
to their neighbouring Swedes' confusion, but it's years since I've
heard it in English.

I guess you got things like "five,-twenty-and-a-hundred" as well?
JTAI, it's a bit like the way numbers are written in Arabic - the same
way round as those in Roman alphabet languages, but little-endian as
they write from right to left. FTM, how do numbers in words work in Arabic?

Speaking of numbers written out, in my mother's 1946 Dutch passport, her
date of birth is given as "1900 en twintig". I don't recall ever seeing
that mix of numbers and words for a date before. Her other documents
(including a wartime identity card) give the year in numbers.

Fran

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Stewart Gordon
<snip>

Post by Ildhund
On a slightly different tack, my mother (County of Lincolnshire,
Parts of Lindsey) always said "five-and-twenty past" when it was
twenty-five past. Danes still use this backwards counting mode, much
to their neighbouring Swedes' confusion, but it's years since I've
heard it in English.

I guess you got things like "five,-twenty-and-a-hundred" as well?
JTAI, it's a bit like the way numbers are written in Arabic - the same
way round as those in Roman alphabet languages, but little-endian as
they write from right to left. FTM, how do numbers in words work in Arabic?

the classical pattern is to go from units to higher powers of ten

the one more common in modern arabic, including written arabic, is to
start from the highest powers of ten down UNTIL tens in which it goes
units - tens

Post by Stewart Gordon
Stewart.
--
My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
the 'group where everyone may benefit.

[Seán O'Leathlóbhair]

Post by Ildhund

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten"
to
mean 10:30.

<snip>
It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

On a slightly different tack, my mother (County of Lincolnshire,
Parts of Lindsey) always said "five-and-twenty past" when it was
twenty-five past. Danes still use this backwards counting mode, much
to their neighbouring Swedes' confusion, but it's years since I've
heard it in English.
--
Noel

The backwards counting is not the worst bit of Danish numbers. The
names of 30, 40, 50 etc are strange as well. "Fifty" sounds like "half
sixty". Apparently it is a remnant of a base 20 system. Not quite as
strange as French "sixty eleven" but less familiar.

The backward tens and units does not bother me. Although it has never
been normal anywhere that I have lived, it is familiar from "four and
twenty blackbirds" and mock old-speak. German also uses this style.

I would agree that Swedish numbers are much easier but I find Swedish
much easier than Danish in other ways as well.

--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair

[Alan Jones]

Post by Stewart Gordon

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to
mean 10:30.

<snip>
It's quite common here in Britain. But I don't get why people don't
similarly tend to say "quarter ten" or "twenty ten".

On a slightly different tack, my mother (County of Lincolnshire, Parts of
Lindsey) always said "five-and-twenty past" when it was twenty-five past.
Danes still use this backwards counting mode, much to their neighbouring
Swedes' confusion, but it's years since I've heard it in English.

You'd hear it from me - also "five-and-twenty to six" etc. In the old rhyme
there's "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie", and anyone brought up
from infancy to chant that verse finds the similar time expressions quite
natural.

Alan Jones

[Stewart Gordon]

Alan Jones wrote:
<snip>

Post by Alan Jones
You'd hear it from me - also "five-and-twenty to six" etc. In the old rhyme
there's "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie", and anyone brought up
from infancy to chant that verse finds the similar time expressions quite
natural.

Do you mean such a person would actually _use_ such expressions, or
merely be implicitly prepared to _hear_ them?

Stewart.

[K. Edgcombe]

Post by Stewart Gordon
<snip>

Post by Alan Jones
You'd hear it from me - also "five-and-twenty to six" etc. In the old rhyme
there's "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie", and anyone brought up
from infancy to chant that verse finds the similar time expressions quite
natural.

Do you mean such a person would actually _use_ such expressions, or
merely be implicitly prepared to _hear_ them?

I can only speak for one such person, but I use them - probably not very often,
but without it being anything out of the way.

I would, however, be mildly surprised if my children used them, so I think they
probably are dying out.

Katy

[Alan Jones]

Post by K. Edgcombe

Post by Stewart Gordon
<snip>

Post by Alan Jones
You'd hear it from me - also "five-and-twenty to six" etc. In the old rhyme
there's "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie", and anyone brought up
from infancy to chant that verse finds the similar time expressions quite
natural.

Do you mean such a person would actually _use_ such expressions, or
merely be implicitly prepared to _hear_ them?

I can only speak for one such person, but I use them - probably not very often,
but without it being anything out of the way.
I would, however, be mildly surprised if my children used them, so I think they
probably are dying out.

Agreed in both respects.

Alan Jones

[Charles Riggs]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

[Michael Hamm]

Post by Charles Riggs

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning?

Not in English, afaIk. See other posts in this thread for other meanings
in other languages.

Post by Charles Riggs
What part of it didn't you understand?

I understood all of it, but only because of the context in which he said
it. (He was describing how, in the good old days, mass would be called
for 10:00 but the priest wouldn't get there until later, sometimes even
"half ten".) I would not, until yesterday, have understood the expression
at all: I'd never heard or seen it before.

Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
***@math.wustl.edu Fine print:
http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html

[Charles Riggs]

Post by Michael Hamm

Post by Charles Riggs

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning?

Not in English, afaIk. See other posts in this thread for other meanings
in other languages.

Hibernian English is, at least, a form of English, innit?

Post by Michael Hamm

Post by Charles Riggs
What part of it didn't you understand?

I understood all of it, but only because of the context in which he said
it. (He was describing how, in the good old days, mass would be called
for 10:00 but the priest wouldn't get there until later, sometimes even
"half ten".) I would not, until yesterday, have understood the expression
at all: I'd never heard or seen it before.

I was only taking the piss, Michael. When I first came to Ireland, I
didn't know if it meant 1030 or 0930. I was constantly getting times
mixed up until I'd heard 'half [whatever]' often enough. It didn't
take very long since it is a very popular expression here.

[Iskandar Baharuddin]

Post by Michael Hamm

Post by Charles Riggs

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning?

Not in English, afaIk. See other posts in this thread for other meanings
in other languages.

In Indonesian "setengah sepuluh" (lit. half ten)means 9:30.

The British expats I encountered often used the "half ten" formulation,
and confused the hell out of the Indonesians. An, initially at least,
got very confused themselves.

Izzy

snip

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.

[Seán O'Leathlóbhair]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:08:36 +0000, Charles Riggs

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

As we have heard, it means this in many other languages but are you
saying that it means this in some English dialect? That would take
confusion to a new level. Or are you just winding Charles up?

--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Seán O'Leathlóbhair

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:08:36 +0000, Charles Riggs

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to

mean

Post by Charles Riggs

Post by Michael Hamm
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.

As we have heard, it means this in many other languages but are you
saying that it means this in some English dialect? That would take
confusion to a new level. Or are you just winding Charles up?

As explained elsewhere, that's what it meant to me, and, I suspect, to most
other English-speaking South Africans.

We had to learn Afrikans at school, and knew that "half-tien" meant 9:30.

So anyone saying "half-ten" would be understood as making a semi-jocular
over-literal translation from Afrikaans.

What surprised me when I first heard it was that the person who uttered iut
came from England, and was not, as far as I was aware, familiar with
Afrikaans, so I wondered why they were using an Afrikaans idiom to refer to
the time in English.

But as I understood it, "half ten" was what I would speak as "half past nine".

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:48:44 +0200, Steve Hayes

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.

Even repeated five times, "half ten" still means 10.30 in BrE, Steve.
I suspect the Englishman who told you it meant 9.30 was having you on.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Robin Bignall
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:48:44 +0200, Steve Hayes

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Charles Riggs
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:41:55 -0600, Michael Hamm

Post by Michael Hamm
I think I heard an Irishman on the radio today saying "half ten" to mean
10:30.

It has some other meaning? What part of it didn't you understand?

Yes. It means 9:30.

Even repeated five times, "half ten" still means 10.30 in BrE, Steve.
I suspect the Englishman who told you it meant 9.30 was having you on.

No Englishman told me that it meant 9:30. It's just that the first time I
heard someone from England saying "half-ten" I *assumed* they meant 9:30,
because that's what it meant to me.

It was not the way I used it, but it was the way I (and I think most South
Africans) understood it. If we want to say 10:30, we say "half past ten".