Discussion:
Why is there a wall in Heaven?
(too old to reply)
Harrison Hill
2018-04-25 15:39:53 UTC
Permalink
I don't think that BBC YouTube works overseas, but hopefully I can
be proven wrong once again. My parents' generation had to come to
terms with a charismatic Irishman called Dave Allen, who challenged
everything they believed in. Here is one of his jokes paraphrased.

A little feller dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says "Would
you like to have a look around Heaven?" And the little feller
says "Yes I would actually!" So they are looking around Heaven;
and he says "Who are those people over there?"
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
Then the little feller says, "Why do you have this big wall?"
"Oh", he says. "Behind the wall we have the Catholics..."


Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-04-25 15:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
I don't think that BBC YouTube works overseas, but hopefully I can
be proven wrong once again. My parents' generation had to come to
terms with a charismatic Irishman called Dave Allen, who challenged
everything they believed in. Here is one of his jokes paraphrased.
A little feller dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says "Would
you like to have a look around Heaven?" And the little feller
says "Yes I would actually!" So they are looking around Heaven;
and he says "Who are those people over there?"
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
Then the little feller says, "Why do you have this big wall?"
"Oh", he says. "Behind the wall we have the Catholics..."
http://youtu.be/mYXenjpefNU
One of my favourite jokes but what's it got to do with English
usage? Do you not know to label things OT?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-04-25 16:30:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Harrison Hill
I don't think that BBC YouTube works overseas, but hopefully I can
be proven wrong once again. My parents' generation had to come to
terms with a charismatic Irishman called Dave Allen, who challenged
everything they believed in. Here is one of his jokes paraphrased.
A little feller dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says "Would
you like to have a look around Heaven?" And the little feller
says "Yes I would actually!" So they are looking around Heaven;
and he says "Who are those people over there?"
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
Then the little feller says, "Why do you have this big wall?"
"Oh", he says. "Behind the wall we have the Catholics..."
http://youtu.be/mYXenjpefNU
One of my favourite jokes but what's it got to do with English
usage?
Nothing, but do you expect on-topic posts from Hen Harrison?
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Do you not know to label things OT?
--
athel
Harrison Hill
2018-04-25 16:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Harrison Hill
I don't think that BBC YouTube works overseas, but hopefully I can
be proven wrong once again. My parents' generation had to come to
terms with a charismatic Irishman called Dave Allen, who challenged
everything they believed in. Here is one of his jokes paraphrased.
A little feller dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says "Would
you like to have a look around Heaven?" And the little feller
says "Yes I would actually!" So they are looking around Heaven;
and he says "Who are those people over there?"
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
Then the little feller says, "Why do you have this big wall?"
"Oh", he says. "Behind the wall we have the Catholics..."
http://youtu.be/mYXenjpefNU
One of my favourite jokes but what's it got to do with English
usage? Do you not know to label things OT?
Irishmen speaking English has nothing to do with English usage.
Percival P. Cassidy
2018-04-25 16:17:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
I don't think that BBC YouTube works overseas, but hopefully I can
be proven wrong once again. My parents' generation had to come to
terms with a charismatic Irishman called Dave Allen, who challenged
everything they believed in. Here is one of his jokes paraphrased.
A little feller dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says "Would
you like to have a look around Heaven?" And the little feller
says "Yes I would actually!" So they are looking around Heaven;
and he says "Who are those people over there?"
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
Then the little feller says, "Why do you have this big wall?"
"Oh", he says. "Behind the wall we have the Catholics..."
http://youtu.be/mYXenjpefNU
The link does work for me in the decreasingly USofA. Just about every
religious group with which I have been associated tells that joke
against themselves.

Perce
Harrison Hill
2018-04-25 16:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Percival P. Cassidy
Post by Harrison Hill
I don't think that BBC YouTube works overseas, but hopefully I can
be proven wrong once again. My parents' generation had to come to
terms with a charismatic Irishman called Dave Allen, who challenged
everything they believed in. Here is one of his jokes paraphrased.
A little feller dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says "Would
you like to have a look around Heaven?" And the little feller
says "Yes I would actually!" So they are looking around Heaven;
and he says "Who are those people over there?"
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
Then the little feller says, "Why do you have this big wall?"
"Oh", he says. "Behind the wall we have the Catholics..."
http://youtu.be/mYXenjpefNU
The link does work for me in the decreasingly USofA. Just about every
religious group with which I have been associated tells that joke
against themselves.
"Just about every religious group with which I have been associated
tells that joke against themselves".

...is the most pompous and ridiculous thing I have heard in
the last five minutes :)
Sam Plusnet
2018-04-25 20:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Percival P. Cassidy
Post by Harrison Hill
I don't think that BBC YouTube works overseas, but hopefully I can
be proven wrong once again. My parents' generation had to come to
terms with a charismatic Irishman called Dave Allen, who challenged
everything they believed in. Here is one of his jokes paraphrased.
A little feller dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says "Would
you like to have a look around Heaven?" And the little feller
says "Yes I would actually!" So they are looking around Heaven;
and he says "Who are those people over there?"
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
Then the little feller says, "Why do you have this big wall?"
"Oh", he says. "Behind the wall we have the Catholics..."
http://youtu.be/mYXenjpefNU
The link does work for me in the decreasingly USofA. Just about every
religious group with which I have been associated tells that joke
against themselves.
"Just about every religious group with which I have been associated
tells that joke against themselves".
...is the most pompous and ridiculous thing I have heard in
the last five minutes :)
Is there no echo in your home?
--
Sam Plusnet
Joseph C. Fineman
2018-04-25 21:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: In the program of life, every line is a workaround and :||
||: contains a bug. :||
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-04-25 23:24:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
Tony Cooper
2018-04-26 02:08:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".

I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2018-04-26 03:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".
I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
Are you saying that Jews are ruder than other people?

What other explanation is there for your closing sentence?
Harrison Hill
2018-04-26 06:43:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".
I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
Are you saying that Jews are ruder than other people?
What other explanation is there for your closing sentence?
If Tony had said:

"I have never had a person say that I have offended them by trying not
to offend them. Bound to happen, though".

...it would have been unremarkable. By inserting the word "Jewish" he
has managed to get you offended on their behalf.

People in this group and elsewhere seem to have this logic process:

1) I have a preconceived idea.
2) Somebody has written something.
3) Either it supports or it contradicts my preconceived idea.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-04-26 11:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".
I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
Are you saying that Jews are ruder than other people?
What other explanation is there for your closing sentence?
"I have never had a person say that I have offended them by trying not
to offend them. Bound to happen, though".
...it would have been unremarkable. By inserting the word "Jewish" he
has managed to get you offended on their behalf.
"their"?
Post by Harrison Hill
1) I have a preconceived idea.
2) Somebody has written something.
3) Either it supports or it contradicts my preconceived idea.
Tony Cooper
2018-04-26 14:59:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 23:43:02 -0700 (PDT), Harrison Hill
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".
I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
Are you saying that Jews are ruder than other people?
What other explanation is there for your closing sentence?
"I have never had a person say that I have offended them by trying not
to offend them. Bound to happen, though".
...it would have been unremarkable. By inserting the word "Jewish" he
has managed to get you offended on their behalf.
1) I have a preconceived idea.
2) Somebody has written something.
3) Either it supports or it contradicts my preconceived idea.
Nah...that's just PTD being PTD.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Richard Yates
2018-04-26 04:13:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 22:08:19 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".
I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
Not to confuse things, but I have a friend who would be categorized as
a secular Jew, and says that means he is "Jew-ish".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-04-26 06:05:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Yates
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 22:08:19 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".
I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
Not to confuse things, but I have a friend who would be categorized as
a secular Jew, and says that means he is "Jew-ish".
"I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog" -- Jonathan
Miller in Beyond the Fringe
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-04-26 11:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Richard Yates
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 22:08:19 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I am one of those with that "curious dialect". Not that *I* think
it's offensive, but I don't know what the other person's view is on
the subject so I avoid "Jew" and use "Jewish".
I have never had a Jewish person say that I have offended them by
trying not to offend them. Bound to happen, though.
Not to confuse things, but I have a friend who would be categorized as
a secular Jew, and says that means he is "Jew-ish".
"I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog" -- Jonathan
Miller in Beyond the Fringe
As has been mentioned every time that joke is mentioned -- and attributed
to Jonathan Miller -- it's old, very old. Used by both Woody Allen and
Jerry Seinfeld and probably as long as there have been English-speaking
Jewish comedians.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-04-26 12:12:00 UTC
Permalink
[ ... ]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog" -- Jonathan
Miller in Beyond the Fringe
As has been mentioned every time that joke is mentioned -- and attributed
to Jonathan Miller -- it's old, very old. Used by both Woody Allen and
Jerry Seinfeld and probably as long as there have been English-speaking
Jewish comedians.
Maybe, but it was in Beyond the Fringe that I first heard it. That
takes us back to 1960: do you have references to its use by Woody Allen
or Jerry Seinfield before that? Woody Allen is older than Jonathan
Miller, but not by much. Jerry Seinfield is a lot younger, and was six
years old in 1960 (as far as I know I've never seen or heard him).
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-04-26 12:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ ... ]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog" -- Jonathan
Miller in Beyond the Fringe
As has been mentioned every time that joke is mentioned -- and attributed
to Jonathan Miller -- it's old, very old. Used by both Woody Allen and
Jerry Seinfeld and probably as long as there have been English-speaking
Jewish comedians.
Maybe, but it was in Beyond the Fringe that I first heard it. That
takes us back to 1960: do you have references to its use by Woody Allen
or Jerry Seinfield before that? Woody Allen is older than Jonathan
Miller, but not by much. Jerry Seinfield is a lot younger, and was six
years old in 1960 (as far as I know I've never seen or heard him).
Have you followed the thread in sci.lang about DD saying that Ruhlen
"showed" that Yukaghir is related to Uralic? Just because you first
heard something somewhere doesn't mean it was the first time it was said.

It's like enthusiasts claiming that Shakespeare invented more words than
anyone else -- just because earlier attestations haven't yet been found.
(Or looked for.)

I wouldn't be surprised if Groucho Marx or Eddie Cantor used it.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-04-26 14:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ ... ]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog" -- Jonathan
Miller in Beyond the Fringe
As has been mentioned every time that joke is mentioned -- and attributed
to Jonathan Miller -- it's old, very old. Used by both Woody Allen and
Jerry Seinfeld and probably as long as there have been English-speaking
Jewish comedians.
Maybe, but it was in Beyond the Fringe that I first heard it. That
takes us back to 1960: do you have references to its use by Woody Allen
or Jerry Seinfield before that? Woody Allen is older than Jonathan
Miller, but not by much. Jerry Seinfield is a lot younger, and was six
years old in 1960 (as far as I know I've never seen or heard him).
Have you followed the thread in sci.lang about DD saying that Ruhlen
"showed" that Yukaghir is related to Uralic? Just because you first
heard something somewhere doesn't mean it was the first time it was said.
I don't think I said anywhere that Jonathan Miller was the first. I
would just like to see evidence that Woody Allen said it before him. As
for Jerry Seinfield, if he was saying it at the age of six he was
probably just repeating something he had heard a parent say.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's like enthusiasts claiming that Shakespeare invented more words than
anyone else -- just because earlier attestations haven't yet been found.
(Or looked for.)
Fairy nuff.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
I wouldn't be surprised if Groucho Marx or Eddie Cantor used it.
--
athel
Richard Yates
2018-04-26 14:30:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:12:00 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ ... ]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog" -- Jonathan
Miller in Beyond the Fringe
As has been mentioned every time that joke is mentioned -- and attributed
to Jonathan Miller -- it's old, very old. Used by both Woody Allen and
Jerry Seinfeld and probably as long as there have been English-speaking
Jewish comedians.
Maybe, but it was in Beyond the Fringe that I first heard it. That
takes us back to 1960: do you have references to its use by Woody Allen
or Jerry Seinfield before that? Woody Allen is older than Jonathan
Miller, but not by much. Jerry Seinfield is a lot younger, and was six
years old in 1960 (as far as I know I've never seen or heard him).
The Jew-ish friend I heard it from was old, but not that old.
Jerry Friedman
2018-04-26 14:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I haven't seen that, but then I don't read much in the places where
people make such declarations.

Have you notice whether they also prefer "He is Christian," "She is
Muslim," etc.? Or "person-first" terminology such as "recordings for
blind people", "toilets for people with disabilities", "many residents
of Asian origin"?
--
Jerry Friedman
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-04-26 14:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I haven't seen that, but then I don't read much in the places where
people make such declarations.
Have you notice whether they also prefer "He is Christian," "She is
Muslim," etc.? Or "person-first" terminology such as "recordings for
blind people", "toilets for people with disabilities", "many residents
of Asian origin"?
Is 'they' here still Jewish writers or some other subset of human
existents?
Jerry Friedman
2018-04-26 15:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I haven't seen that, but then I don't read much in the places where
people make such declarations.
Have you notice whether they also prefer "He is Christian," "She is
Muslim," etc.? Or "person-first" terminology such as "recordings for
blind people", "toilets for people with disabilities", "many residents
of Asian origin"?
Is 'they' here still Jewish writers or some other subset of human
existents?
The Jewish writers that you've noticed of late.
--
Jerry Friedman
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-04-26 15:48:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I haven't seen that, but then I don't read much in the places where
people make such declarations.
Have you notice whether they also prefer "He is Christian," "She is
Muslim," etc.? Or "person-first" terminology such as "recordings for
blind people", "toilets for people with disabilities", "many residents
of Asian origin"?
Is 'they' here still Jewish writers or some other subset of human
existents?
The Jewish writers that you've noticed of late.
In that case ...

She is Muslim (they are Muslims) but her faith is Islam.
If she is Islamist, however, they've probably made
security services aware of her existence!

As UK is deep into a row about anti-semitism in the Labour
party there's not really been much in the way of writing
about other issues of late.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-04-26 18:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ … ]
As UK is deep into a row about anti-semitism in the Labour
party there's not really been much in the way of writing
about other issues of late.
Not even about the Windrush generation?
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-04-26 20:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ … ]
As UK is deep into a row about anti-semitism in the Labour
party there's not really been much in the way of writing
about other issues of late.
Not even about the Windrush generation?
--
Not really a concern for Jewish writers of whom we were
exclusively speaking.
Jerry Friedman
2018-04-27 19:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
--
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I haven't seen that, but then I don't read much in the places where
people make such declarations.
Have you notice whether they also prefer "He is Christian," "She is
Muslim," etc.? Or "person-first" terminology such as "recordings for
blind people", "toilets for people with disabilities", "many residents
of Asian origin"?
Is 'they' here still Jewish writers or some other subset of human
existents?
The Jewish writers that you've noticed of late.
In that case ...
She is Muslim (they are Muslims) but her faith is Islam.
...

Thanks. That suggests that they're not really trying to avoid negative
connotations of "Jew".
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2018-04-26 15:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
Whilst I'm not generally persuaded by pc ideas on language I
suspect that in this case the relevant dialect is just English! If not
outright offensive, 'Jew' and 'Jews' certainly have negative
connotations hanging over them. I have certainly noticed a
reluctance among Jewish writers of late to declare "I am a Jew"
where "I am Jewish" is possible.
I haven't seen that, but then I don't read much in the places where
people make such declarations.
Have you notice whether they also prefer "He is Christian," "She is
Muslim," etc.? Or "person-first" terminology such as "recordings for
blind people", "toilets for people with disabilities", "many residents
of Asian origin"?
Bertrand Russell could have written "Why I Am Not Christian," but he didn't.
CDB
2018-04-26 12:45:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people. These
are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in
which "Jew" is an offensive word.
Infected by the adjectival use, I suppose. That is often substituted
for "Jewish" when the speaker intends offence.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-04-26 14:04:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people. These
are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in
which "Jew" is an offensive word.
Infected by the adjectival use, I suppose. That is often substituted
for "Jewish" when the speaker intends offence.
I learned the other day that President Trump uses "tired eyes" as a
synonym for Jewish. I don't think he means it as a compliment.
--
athel
Sam Plusnet
2018-04-28 00:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people. These
are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE:  The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in
which "Jew" is an offensive word.
Infected by the adjectival use, I suppose.  That is often substituted
for "Jewish" when the speaker intends offence.
I learned the other day that President Trump uses "tired eyes" as a
synonym for Jewish. I don't think he means it as a compliment.
How odd. I imagined that he was very fond of the First Daughter and
First Son-in-Law.
--
Sam Plusnet
occam
2018-04-26 14:40:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Harrison Hill
"They are Muslims, and over there we have the Jewish people.
These are Anglicans, Hindus, Baptists".
ObAUE: The speaker evidently belongs to that curious dialect in which
"Jew" is an offensive word.
Correction. The speaker belongs to the curious group to which "God" is
an offensive word. Dave Allen is hillarious and entertained many a Jew,
Catholic and assorted others in his day.
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