he sends his apologies

[becky]

Found in a dictionary:
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."

I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

becky

[david56]

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

The apologies are being delivered by whoever says that sentence.
It's a conventional format. Edward has asked somebody: "Please take
my apologies to the meeting". It is by the uttering of the words
"Edward sends his apologies" that the apologies are delivered. It's
as though the apologies were tangible - as if Edward had sent some
biscuits.

[Jess Askin]

Post by david56

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

The apologies are being delivered by whoever says that sentence.
It's a conventional format. Edward has asked somebody: "Please take
my apologies to the meeting". It is by the uttering of the words
"Edward sends his apologies" that the apologies are delivered. It's
as though the apologies were tangible - as if Edward had sent some
biscuits.

I'd rather have biscuits than apologies any day.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

Usually, the statement is made by the person that invited Edward. It
indicates that Edward declined the invitation, but expressed his
regrets for doing so to the person that extended the invitation.

It's not a statement that one should take literally. Edward either
had a schedule conflict, didn't think the event was worth his time
attending, or laughed in the face of the person inviting him. In any
case, the person making the statement is putting a polite spin on
Edward's non-appearance.

It's similar to a speaker saying "We are delighted to have Edward as
our principal speaker." That statement can indicate anything from
genuine delight to the polite glossing over of Edward being the fifth
choice made out of desperation just to have someone at the podium.

[Michael Nitabach]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What

exactly

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by becky
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

Usually, the statement is made by the person that invited Edward.

It

Post by Tony Cooper
indicates that Edward declined the invitation, but expressed his
regrets for doing so to the person that extended the invitation.
It's not a statement that one should take literally. Edward either
had a schedule conflict, didn't think the event was worth his time
attending, or laughed in the face of the person inviting him. In any
case, the person making the statement is putting a polite spin on
Edward's non-appearance.

It is equally plausible that Edward actually wished he could attend,
couldn't, and truly felt apologetic that he couldn't.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:59:26 -0500, Michael Nitabach

Post by becky

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What

exactly

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by becky
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to

say

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by becky
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone,

etc.)

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by becky
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies"

or

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by becky
"he sent his apologies" instead?

Usually, the statement is made by the person that invited Edward.

It

Post by Tony Cooper
It's not a statement that one should take literally. Edward either
had a schedule conflict, didn't think the event was worth his time
attending, or laughed in the face of the person inviting him. In

any

Post by Tony Cooper
case, the person making the statement is putting a polite spin on
Edward's non-appearance.

It is equally plausible that Edward actually wished he could attend,
couldn't, and truly felt apologetic that he couldn't.

Has it become fashionable in aue to skim posts? This is the second
poster that evidently has skipped the line above that says:
"...indicates that Edward declined the invitation, but expressed his
regrets for doing so to the person that extended the invitation."
And "Edward either had a schedule conflict,..." which gives equal
weight to the other reasons for Edward's non-appearance.

[Arcadian Rises]

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

He didn't actually send his apologies, because apologies are..hmm.. immaterial.

Replace "apologies" with "love" and you will understand what I mean.

[Robert Bannister]

Post by Arcadian Rises

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

He didn't actually send his apologies, because apologies are..hmm.. immaterial.
Replace "apologies" with "love" and you will understand what I mean.

I think both you and Tony are being too cynical. Consider:
1) Edward can't be here today because he's very busy
2) Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies

I see no reason why Edward might not have sent genuine apologies. Do you
want him to write a note?

[Arcadian Rises]

Post by Arcadian Rises

Post by Arcadian Rises

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

He didn't actually send his apologies, because apologies are..hmm..

immaterial.

Post by Arcadian Rises
Replace "apologies" with "love" and you will understand what I mean.

1) Edward can't be here today because he's very busy
2) Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies
I see no reason why Edward might not have sent genuine apologies.

Me neither. Sorry for the double entendu . When I said "immaterial" I meant
that the apologies cannot be packed in a container and sent.

Post by Arcadian Rises
Do you
want him to write a note?

I don't really care. Anyway, I accepted his apologies.

[Robert Bannister]

Post by Arcadian Rises

Post by Arcadian Rises

Post by Arcadian Rises

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

He didn't actually send his apologies, because apologies are..hmm..

immaterial.

Post by Arcadian Rises
Replace "apologies" with "love" and you will understand what I mean.

1) Edward can't be here today because he's very busy
2) Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies
I see no reason why Edward might not have sent genuine apologies.

Me neither. Sorry for the double entendu . When I said "immaterial" I meant
that the apologies cannot be packed in a container and sent.

Post by Arcadian Rises
Do you
want him to write a note?

I don't really care. Anyway, I accepted his apologies.

Perhaps I need to send my apologies(?) Sorry I can't email biscuits.

I must say I did take your 'immaterial' the wrong way and I felt,
despite Tony's protests, that the general tenor of his argument was that
the apology was likely to be insincere. One of the reasons I retired
early was to escape the increasing number of (often pointless) meetings,
and I do agree that many insincere comments and apologies are made, but
getting back to Becky's question, I would say that the original
statement has to be taken as a genuine apology even if it's not.

[Skitt]

[...] One of the reasons I
retired early was to escape the increasing number of (often
pointless) meetings, [...]

For me, they were what made me delay retirement. You see, the more meetings
were called, the less time I had to spend actually doing work. Meetings
provided a great opportunity for some relaxation -- for some shut-eye, even.
They made life easier. More boring, but easier.

[M. J. Powell]

In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Skitt <***@comcast.net>
writes

Post by Skitt

[...] One of the reasons I
retired early was to escape the increasing number of (often
pointless) meetings, [...]

For me, they were what made me delay retirement. You see, the more
meetings were called, the less time I had to spend actually doing work.
Meetings provided a great opportunity for some relaxation -- for some
shut-eye, even. They made life easier. More boring, but easier.

Did you learn to sleep with your eyes open?

Did you learn to yawn with your mouth shut?

Mike

[Mark Barratt]

Post by M. J. Powell

<snip> You see, the more
meetings were called, the less time I had to spend actually doing
work. Meetings provided a great opportunity for some relaxation -- for
some shut-eye, even. They made life easier. More boring, but easier.

Did you learn to sleep with your eyes open?
Did you learn to yawn with your mouth shut?

Snoring under your breath is also a trick worthy of learning, I've
heard. Can you see Skitt as another Wally?

Just in case anyone doesn't know who Wally is - he's the bald one:
<http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20040826.html>
(That link should be valid for another 13 days)

[Skitt]

Post by M. J. Powell

Post by Skitt

[...] One of the reasons I
retired early was to escape the increasing number of (often
pointless) meetings, [...]

For me, they were what made me delay retirement. You see, the more
meetings were called, the less time I had to spend actually doing
work. Meetings provided a great opportunity for some relaxation --
for some shut-eye, even. They made life easier. More boring, but
easier.

Did you learn to sleep with your eyes open?
Did you learn to yawn with your mouth shut?

No, but I learned to sit where I could not be readily observed by the
speaker.

[M. J. Powell]

In message <***@uni-berlin.de>, Skitt <***@comcast.net>
writes

Post by Skitt

Post by M. J. Powell

Post by Skitt

[...] One of the reasons I
retired early was to escape the increasing number of (often
pointless) meetings, [...]

For me, they were what made me delay retirement. You see, the more
meetings were called, the less time I had to spend actually doing
work. Meetings provided a great opportunity for some relaxation --
for some shut-eye, even. They made life easier. More boring, but
easier.

Did you learn to sleep with your eyes open?
Did you learn to yawn with your mouth shut?

No, but I learned to sit where I could not be readily observed by the
speaker.

Good tactic, Skitt.

Mike

[Robert Bannister]

Post by M. J. Powell
writes

Post by Skitt

[...] One of the reasons I
retired early was to escape the increasing number of (often
pointless) meetings, [...]

For me, they were what made me delay retirement. You see, the more
meetings were called, the less time I had to spend actually doing
work. Meetings provided a great opportunity for some relaxation -- for
some shut-eye, even. They made life easier. More boring, but easier.

Did you learn to sleep with your eyes open?
Did you learn to yawn with your mouth shut?

I did both, but I was once woken up by a colleague during a full-staff
meeting for snoring.

[Robert Bannister]

Post by Skitt

[...] One of the reasons I
retired early was to escape the increasing number of (often
pointless) meetings, [...]

For me, they were what made me delay retirement. You see, the more
meetings were called, the less time I had to spend actually doing work.
Meetings provided a great opportunity for some relaxation -- for some
shut-eye, even. They made life easier. More boring, but easier.

You see that was the point: I really liked teaching, but it was getting
to the point where I was barely allowed to do it. When we weren't in
meetings, we were writing pointless 'statements', 'strategies' and
'plans' (no doubt there is a difference between these, at least in some
minds).

Paperwork is the curse of modern working - I watch plumbers, etc. come
to my house - they spend 10-20 minutes doing the job and then
laboriously sweat over the paperwork for nearly as long. At least, they
probably don't have to attend 'strategy' meetings.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:32:36 +0800, Robert Bannister

Post by Robert Bannister

Post by Arcadian Rises

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

He didn't actually send his apologies, because apologies are..hmm.. immaterial.
Replace "apologies" with "love" and you will understand what I mean.

1) Edward can't be here today because he's very busy
2) Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies
I see no reason why Edward might not have sent genuine apologies. Do you
want him to write a note?

What was cynical about my reply? I wrote:

"Usually, the statement is made by the person that invited Edward. It
indicates that Edward declined the invitation, but expressed his
regrets for doing so to the person that extended the invitation.

It's not a statement that one should take literally. Edward either
had a schedule conflict, didn't think the event was worth his time
attending, or laughed in the face of the person inviting him. In any
case, the person making the statement is putting a polite spin on
Edward's non-appearance."

My first paragraph allows for Edward declining and expressing his
regrets. My second paragraph considers a scheduling conflict. My
second paragraph *also* considers that there is no regret involved,
but that's just one of three very realistic reasons for Edward not to
be there.

My point was not that Edward was apologetic or non-apologetic. It was
that the speaker will almost always present the non-appearance as
regretful regardless of Edward's reasons. It is the speaker, not
Edward, that shouldn't be taken literally.

If I am cynical in this, chalk it off to (a) attending a lot of
meetings, and/or (b) running a lot of meetings. I freely admit to
leaving sincerity in the coat room when running meetings. I can't
count the number of times that I've said something like "Thanks, Jim,
for a truly interesting and informative presentation. I don't think
anyone here was at all put off by the fact that you mistakenly brought
your vacation slides instead of the product pictures. We've all
learned a great deal about the medical applications of lasers, and a
great deal about Yosemite National Park."

[don groves]

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

Think of it in the same sense as "... do not send to ask for whom
the bell tolls ...". A man-servant would have been "sent" in
both cases.
--
dg

[don groves]

Post by don groves

Post by becky
"Edward can't be here today, but he sends his apologies."
I'm not sure as to how to make sense of the second half. What exactly
does it say about the sending of his apologies? It does appear to say
he has already contacted someone at the place (by email, phone, etc.)
and made apologies. If so, can I say, "he has sent his apologies" or
"he sent his apologies" instead?

Think of it in the same sense as "... do not send to ask for whom
the bell tolls ...". A man-servant would have been "sent" in
both cases.

Abject apologies -- that should be, "... send not to ask ...".

Also, your example continues today as part of our system of
etiquette while Donne's usage would now be considered archaic.
--
dg