turns himself into

MSNBC headline:
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI

Quite a trick.

Peter T. Daniels

2014-04-28 15:21:40 UTC

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

He actually had been FBI before he went to Congress ... maybe
it's an alchemical memory sort of thing.

Merriment is being made of the fact that the indictment came down
the day after he (a Republican) admitted that climate change (which
had helped devastate his Staten Island district during Superstorm
Sandy nearly two years ago) was an actual thing.

Django Cat

2014-04-28 16:16:58 UTC

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

I've got a mate who turns into his garage every night.

DC

--

Stan Brown

2014-04-30 02:34:51 UTC

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

And yet if he turned into a driveway, it would be unremarkable.

I truly don't understand the difference between "into" and "in to".

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

Guy Barry

2014-04-30 08:00:09 UTC

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

And yet if he turned into a driveway, it would be unremarkable.
I truly don't understand the difference between "into" and "in to".

The writer of the headline didn't understand the difference; he or she
should have used "in to", since "in" is part of the phrasal verb "turn in".

I imagine you probably understand it rather better.

--
Guy Barry

Katy Jennison

2014-04-30 17:33:41 UTC

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

And yet if he turned into a driveway, it would be unremarkable.
I truly don't understand the difference between "into" and "in to".

motorist
The writer of the headline didn't understand the difference; he or she
should have used "in to", since "in" is part of the phrasal verb "turn in".
I imagine you probably understand it rather better.

(The following may not work in AmE.)

A young lady was standing at the side of the road thumbing a lift. A
man stopped and picked her up. "So, what do you do?" he said, making
conversation. "I'm a witch," she said. "Oh? Do you do magic?" "Oh
yes!" "Go on then - turn me into something." So she leant over and
kissed him, and he turned into a lay-by.

--
Katy Jennison

Peter T. Daniels

2014-04-30 17:22:53 UTC

Post by Katy Jennison
(The following may not work in AmE.)
A young lady was standing at the side of the road thumbing a lift. A
man stopped and picked her up. "So, what do you do?" he said, making
conversation. "I'm a witch," she said. "Oh? Do you do magic?" "Oh
yes!" "Go on then - turn me into something." So she leant over and
kissed him, and he turned into a lay-by.

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?

also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")

leant > leaned

James Hogg

2014-04-30 18:04:31 UTC

British "lay" doesn't give any of the frissons you imagine.

--
James

Peter T. Daniels

2014-04-30 18:36:09 UTC

Post by James Hogg

British "lay" doesn't give any of the frissons you imagine.

Teenagers aren't constantly eager to "get laid"?

What's that word that's like "snog" (which apparently is just 'kiss')?

Tony Cooper

2014-04-30 20:14:40 UTC

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.

I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.

On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Skitt

2014-04-30 21:47:03 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2014-04-30 22:57:22 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

That sounds about it.

Here are a couple of basic lay-bys:
Loading Image...

Loading Image...

There's a bit more to this one:
Loading Image...

Sometimes where the road has been improved, widened and straightened, a
bypassed section of the original road will be used as a lay-by.
Loading Image...

Sometimes slightly more facilities than parking space are provided:
Loading Image...

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Tony Cooper

2014-05-01 00:13:48 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.

If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Skitt

2014-05-01 00:37:48 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.
If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

Here's a sign for a turnout, but it refers to a fairly short extra
outside lane for use by slower traffic, so that faster traffic can pass.
Loading Image...

My previously mentioned interpretation might be wrong.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

Tony Cooper

2014-05-01 01:44:57 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.
If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

Here's a sign for a turnout, but it refers to a fairly short extra
outside lane for use by slower traffic, so that faster traffic can pass.
http://everydaydrivertv.com/wp-content/reloads/Turnout.jpg
My previously mentioned interpretation might be wrong.

What is it they call those lanes coming down a mountain or a steep
slope? Not places to pull off and stretch, but lanes that you get in
if you're going too fast on a downgrade?

As you know, Skitt, no such lanes are in Florida.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2014-05-01 11:16:01 UTC

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 21:44:57 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.
If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

What is it they call those lanes coming down a mountain or a steep
slope? Not places to pull off and stretch, but lanes that you get in
if you're going too fast on a downgrade?

In the UK those are "escape lanes".

This shows a picturesque one on a narrow country road:
http://citytransport.info/special/SouthWestEngland-b-1/escapelane.html

On a wider road:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1261005

Post by Tony Cooper
As you know, Skitt, no such lanes are in Florida.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Robert Bannister

2014-05-01 23:53:41 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 21:44:57 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
What is it they call those lanes coming down a mountain or a steep
slope? Not places to pull off and stretch, but lanes that you get in
if you're going too fast on a downgrade?

In the UK those are "escape lanes".

"Truck arrester beds" over here. First time I saw the time, my mind went
into a "WTF??!" whirl, but when you see the long stretch of gravel going
back uphill, becomes obvious.

Try using Google Images with "truck arrester bed".

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Skitt

2014-05-02 00:07:57 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 21:44:57 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
What is it they call those lanes coming down a mountain or a steep
slope? Not places to pull off and stretch, but lanes that you get in
if you're going too fast on a downgrade?

In the UK those are "escape lanes".

That's a runaway truck ramp around here.

Loading Image...

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

Robert Bannister

2014-05-02 22:08:10 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 21:44:57 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
What is it they call those lanes coming down a mountain or a steep
slope? Not places to pull off and stretch, but lanes that you get in
if you're going too fast on a downgrade?

In the UK those are "escape lanes".

That's a runaway truck ramp around here.
http://letubeu.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/img_1397.jpg

We see the difference: we obviously have criminal trucks that need to be
arrested, while you treat your trucks so cruelly, they try to run away.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Mark Brader

2014-05-03 00:45:25 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
Try using Google Images with "truck arrester bed".

That's a runaway truck ramp around here.

We see the difference: we obviously have criminal trucks...

"I didn't realize it was still a requirement."

--
Mark Brader "They're trying to invent a new crime:
Toronto interference with a business model."
***@vex.net --Bruce Schneier

John Varela

2014-05-02 00:35:22 UTC

On Thu, 1 May 2014 01:44:57 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.
If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

I think the signs say something like "Runaway truck ramp".

--
John Varela

John Varela

2014-05-02 00:40:43 UTC

On Thu, 1 May 2014 01:44:57 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.
If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

Here's an example:

https://www.google.com/search?q=runaway+truck+ramp&client=firefox-a&
hs=hqN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&imgil=XbBHYrYRR8XqBM%
253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%2
53Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRleZGEgcd-Wsvvuj8d3ddpF-5u6rmBTsXnHl-CKfI9tJ4
jkERr%253B469%253B360%253BptuLls2PtRdU1M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%2525
2F1000awesomethings.com%25252F2008%25252F10%25252F02%25252F926%25252
F&source=iu&usg=___sBBIdPw1RDC_s0ZRBEKv_q0Lf0%3D&sa=X&ei=oOhiU6KdFZT
8yAHitoAo&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=XbBHYrYRR8XqBM%253A
%3BptuLls2PtRdU1M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F1000awesomethings.files.wordp
ress.com%252F2008%252F09%252Frunaway-truck-ramp.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F
%252F1000awesomethings.com%252F2008%252F10%252F02%252F926%252F%3B469
%3B360

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/mqojeqv

--
John Varela

Katy Jennison

2014-05-01 13:54:14 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.
If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

Here, for minimal "pull off the carriageway" lay-bys, the sign is simply
a large P (usually with a small supplementary sign underneath saying eg
"1 mile ahead"), meaning "you can park here".

--
Katy Jennison

micky

2014-05-02 19:24:57 UTC

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 20:13:48 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

I was trying to think of a word we use for this, and didn't think of
"turnout". But, I don't think even that word is used that much.

I've never heard it before, wrt a road. A concert might have a good
turn-out.

Post by Tony Cooper
If we are driving down a road, and one is ahead of us, there's no sign
that I know of that identifies it. There might be a pictoral sign
with a picnic table, but no words. The exception is the "Scenic View"
sign, but that's just where there actually is a view of something.
You'll not find those in Florida.

LOL No hills.

--
Please say where you live, or what
area's English you are asking about.
So your question or answer makes sense.
. .
I have lived all my life in the USA,
Western Pa. Indianapolis, Chicago,
Brooklyn, Baltimore.

Robert Bannister

2014-05-01 06:07:16 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

Often, they are bits of old road left over from when they straightened
the road, but yours and Tony's descriptions are as good as any. They're
not called "lay-bys" in Australia either and now the right term won't
come to me.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Dr Nick

2014-05-01 06:53:33 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

It's not the "into" that's problematic, it's the "lay-by." I infer
it means 'rest stop' (aka "oasis" on some expressways), but your
version probably gains an extra _frisson_ from the naughty associations
of "lay" -- but wouldn't they be operative in any mention of a "lay-by"?
also "thumbing a lift" > "thumbing a ride" (cf. "get a lift")
leant > leaned

I must be reading too much Brit fiction or summat. My problem was
finding the problem that Katy suggested might be there.
I do wonder about that definition of a "lay-by" as being the same as
an Oasis or Rest Stop. These are rather extensive facilities and
usually found on controlled access highways. They have, at the least,
rest rooms (there's problem, maybe, for Katy), picnic tables, and
vending machines.
On many smaller ordinary roads in the US there are places to pull off
the road. Some might have a picnic table, but many are just an area
where one can stop and get out and stretch one's legs. In the
mountains, they are marked with signs saying "Scenic View" or
something like that. In most places, they aren't marked at all.
These are what I consider to be a "lay-by".

I was thinking a lay-by was something like our turnout - just a wide
spot for getting off the driving lane part of the road.

Often, they are bits of old road left over from when they straightened
the road, but yours and Tony's descriptions are as good as
any. They're not called "lay-bys" in Australia either and now the
right term won't come to me.

They're "escape lanes" over here.

Loading Image...

I think I've pointed out before, the wide part of the Grand Union canal
at Bull's Bridge, where boats waited for orders, was called "the lay-by"
before there were lay-bys on roads. When you think about it, it makes
much more sense as a boaty term: a stationary boat can be described as
"lying" (you'll see it in adverts: "lying at Braunston") so a place for
boats to wait along side the main stream of traffic is obviously a
lay-by.

http://www.ssplprints.com/image/132642/canal-barges-at-bulls-bridge-lay-by-southall-london-1950

John Holmes

2014-05-02 11:44:51 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
Often, they are bits of old road left over from when they straightened
the road, but yours and Tony's descriptions are as good as any.
They're not called "lay-bys" in Australia either and now the right
term won't come to me.

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

Peter Moylan

2014-05-02 12:46:38 UTC

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

That's one kind of stopping place. A rest area is usually well off the
road. It might have a picnic table or even a toilet. On a major highway
you can count on seeing one about once every half hour.

There's another that is often found at 1 km spacings on NSW freeways,
and less frequently on some other divided roads. There's room for one or
possibly two cars to pull off the road, but that's all; and there's
usually an emergency telephone. You wouldn't want to powernap in such a
place. They're good for stopping when you want to investigate that
rattle in the back of the car, or change drivers, or you have an urgent
need to step into the bush and water a tree. The telephone (usually
solar-powered) is there in case you need to call a tow-truck or an
ambulance.

I see these things all the time, but for the life of me I can't remember
their name.

There's something similar, but cruder, on narrow mountain roads, where
the only point is to let slow vehicles pull over to let others overtake.
These have a different name, and again I've forgotten it.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Mark Brader

2014-05-03 00:40:06 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

That's one kind of stopping place. A rest area is usually well off the
road. It might have a picnic table or even a toilet. On a major highway
you can count on seeing one about once every half hour.

That's what I take "rest area" to mean.

Post by Peter Moylan
There's another that is often found at 1 km spacings on NSW freeways,
and less frequently on some other divided roads. There's room for one or
possibly two cars to pull off the road, but that's all; and there's
usually an emergency telephone.

Not typically seen in North America. If you have to use the emergency
telephone, you park on the shoulder, which is continuous on the sort
of roads that have emergency telephones.

Post by Peter Moylan
There's something similar, but cruder, on narrow mountain roads, where
the only point is to let slow vehicles pull over to let others overtake.
These have a different name, and again I've forgotten it.

Loading Image...

(I don't remember seeing these signs in Canada at all, and don't remember
where I got "pullout".)

--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Canadian seals deal with creditors"
***@vex.net | --Globe & Mail, Toronto, July 1, 1997

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Tony Cooper

2014-05-03 01:20:46 UTC

Post by Mark Brader
(I don't remember seeing these signs in Canada at all, and don't remember
where I got "pullout".)

From your Playboy magazine?

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Robert Bannister

2014-05-03 23:25:42 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

That's one kind of stopping place. A rest area is usually well off the
road. It might have a picnic table or even a toilet. On a major highway
you can count on seeing one about once every half hour.

That's what I take "rest area" to mean.

Not typically seen in North America. If you have to use the emergency
telephone, you park on the shoulder, which is continuous on the sort
of roads that have emergency telephones.

To me that's a "pullout", but in looking for images of highway signs
using the word, I was reminded that to US signmakers it's a "turnout"
(or "turn-out").
http://everydaydrivertv.com/wp-content/reloads/Turnout.jpg
https://pamperingcampers.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/alseahwy-3.jpg
http://sr.photos3.fotosearch.com/bthumb/UNS/UNS090/u17433129.jpg
(I don't remember seeing these signs in Canada at all, and don't remember
where I got "pullout".)

If ever I drive there, I shall thank you for these pictures whose signs
would otherwise have been totally incomprehensible to me.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Katy Jennison

2014-05-04 12:31:08 UTC

Post by Mark Brader
To me that's a "pullout", but in looking for images of highway signs
using the word, I was reminded that to US signmakers it's a "turnout"
(or "turn-out").
http://everydaydrivertv.com/wp-content/reloads/Turnout.jpg
https://pamperingcampers.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/alseahwy-3.jpg
http://sr.photos3.fotosearch.com/bthumb/UNS/UNS090/u17433129.jpg
(I don't remember seeing these signs in Canada at all, and don't remember
where I got "pullout".)

If ever I drive there, I shall thank you for these pictures whose signs
would otherwise have been totally incomprehensible to me.

The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean that a convoy of four can pull up anywhere by the side of
the road, but if there are five or more of you you have to stop in one
or more turnout? I haven't thought of any other interpretation; am I
missing something?

--
Katy Jennison

Dr Nick

2014-05-04 12:55:13 UTC

If ever I drive there, I shall thank you for these pictures whose signs
would otherwise have been totally incomprehensible to me.

The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean that a convoy of four can pull up anywhere by the side
of the road, but if there are five or more of you you have to stop in
one or more turnout? I haven't thought of any other interpretation;
am I missing something?

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in and let the others
past you.

Katy Jennison

2014-05-04 14:11:02 UTC

If ever I drive there, I shall thank you for these pictures whose signs
would otherwise have been totally incomprehensible to me.

The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean that a convoy of four can pull up anywhere by the side
of the road, but if there are five or more of you you have to stop in
one or more turnout? I haven't thought of any other interpretation;
am I missing something?

Ah! Light dawns. How sensible. (Although I'm not convinced that some
of the drivers I've followed in that sort of queue ever look into their
mirrors to see if they've collected a tail, or would be capable of
counting up to five if they did.)

--
Katy Jennison

Mark Brader

2014-05-04 20:30:18 UTC

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

Post by Dr Nick
and let the others past you.

Ah! Light dawns. How sensible.

As you say. In some states it's 3 rather than 5.

--
Mark Brader, Toronto "If it's on TV, it has to be true!
***@vex.net (I read that on the Internet.)"

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Mike L

2014-05-04 21:50:58 UTC

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

Post by Dr Nick
and let the others past you.

Ah! Light dawns. How sensible.

As you say. In some states it's 3 rather than 5.

Whatever. As long as they're not to blatant about pulling off.

--
Mike.

Dr Nick

2014-05-05 07:34:55 UTC

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.

I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic. I
could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".

So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Peter T. Daniels

2014-05-05 11:27:55 UTC

[there's nothing with three chevrons, so what is her attribution doing here?]

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

[doesn't seem to have written anything here, but with Brader's typical
screwing with the attributions, it's not possible to tell]

Post by Dr Nick
I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic. I
could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Of course not. It means 'park'.

Are you thinking of "pull into traffic"?

Guy Barry

2014-05-05 13:16:49 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[there's nothing with three chevrons, so what is her attribution doing here?]

That attribution is quite correct. In the post that Mark was replying to
(also written by Katy), Katy's words had two chevrons.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[doesn't seem to have written anything here, but with Brader's typical
screwing with the attributions, it's not possible to tell]

Nick Atty and Dr Nick are the same person.

--
Guy Barry

Peter T. Daniels

2014-05-05 15:59:41 UTC

Post by Guy Barry

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[there's nothing with three chevrons, so what is her attribution doing here?]

That attribution is quite correct. In the post that Mark was replying to
(also written by Katy), Katy's words had two chevrons.

And since nothing of Katy's was quoted, why was her attribution retained?

Post by Guy Barry

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[doesn't seem to have written anything here, but with Brader's typical
screwing with the attributions, it's not possible to tell]

Nick Atty and Dr Nick are the same person.

That factoid is irrelevant to the misattribution of the quoted lines,
since the numbers of chevrons in the quotes did not match up with the
allotment of chevrons in the attributions.

I wonder what Mark Brader thinks he accomplishes by using names of
people who don't want their names to appear. He also does that to
"CDB," and if Damia were one of the two or three people whose postings
he deigns to read, no doubt he would scour the Usenet archives to
discover the person's real name.

Guy Barry

2014-05-05 16:10:48 UTC

Post by Guy Barry

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[there's nothing with three chevrons, so what is her attribution doing here?]

That attribution is quite correct. In the post that Mark was replying to
(also written by Katy), Katy's words had two chevrons.

And since nothing of Katy's was quoted, why was her attribution retained?

That's incorrect. The words quoted by Mark (correctly attributed) were:
'The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts." Does
that mean...'

Post by Guy Barry
Nick Atty and Dr Nick are the same person.

That factoid is irrelevant to the misattribution of the quoted lines,
since the numbers of chevrons in the quotes did not match up with the
allotment of chevrons in the attributions.

There was no misattribution. Nick's words (correctly attributed and with
the correct number of chevrons) were:

'I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in.'

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I wonder what Mark Brader thinks he accomplishes by using names of
people who don't want their names to appear. He also does that to
"CDB," and if Damia were one of the two or three people whose postings
he deigns to read, no doubt he would scour the Usenet archives to
discover the person's real name.

He'll have to answer for himself on that one. He has an idiosyncratic
attribution style, but I've never seen him attribute incorrectly.

--
Guy Barry

Tony Cooper

2014-05-05 13:17:45 UTC

On Mon, 05 May 2014 08:34:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic. I
could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.

However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Dr Nick

2014-05-05 14:14:55 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 08:34:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic. I
could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

Tony Cooper

2014-05-05 14:51:56 UTC

On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 08:34:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic. I
could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context. All queues that I know about are
standing human beings. The most likely place to find a queue in this
area is at Disney World, and they are waiting to board a ride.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Peter T. Daniels

2014-05-05 16:03:25 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

charles

2014-05-05 16:27:31 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Plenty of opportunities for a queue to form behind a slow moving vehicle,
especially one towing a caravan here in the UK. It isn't so much the
narrowness of the road, but the twistiness, meaning the would-be overtaker
can see far enough ahead to make it safe to pass.

The word queue is derived from the French meaning a 'tail'. A number of
following vehicles can easily constitute a tail, even if they don't want to
be.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Dr Nick

2014-05-05 16:47:30 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Plenty of opportunities for a queue to form behind a slow moving vehicle,
especially one towing a caravan here in the UK. It isn't so much the
narrowness of the road, but the twistiness, meaning the would-be overtaker
can see far enough ahead to make it safe to pass.
The word queue is derived from the French meaning a 'tail'. A number of
following vehicles can easily constitute a tail, even if they don't want to
be.

And it's the normal and quasi-official word for slow moving or
stationary traffic over here. Here's a road sign:
Loading Image...

It appears to be normal NZ use as well:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Zealand_Sign_Assembly_-_Signals_Ahead_With_Queue.svg

the Omrud

2014-05-05 16:53:08 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Plenty of opportunities for a queue to form behind a slow moving vehicle,
especially one towing a caravan here in the UK. It isn't so much the
narrowness of the road, but the twistiness, meaning the would-be overtaker
can see far enough ahead to make it safe to pass.
The word queue is derived from the French meaning a 'tail'. A number of
following vehicles can easily constitute a tail, even if they don't want to
be.

And it's the normal and quasi-official word for slow moving or
http://sandlerukblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/queues_likely1.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Zealand_Sign_Assembly_-_Signals_Ahead_With_Queue.svg

The (UK) Highway Code uses the terms "queueing traffic" and "traffic
queues" more than once.

https://www.gov.uk/road-works-level-crossings-tramways-288-to-307 :

When the ‘Road Works Ahead’ sign is displayed, you will need to be more
watchful and look for additional signs providing more specific
instructions. Observe all signs - they are there for your safety and the
safety of road workers.
...
- Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic.

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169 :

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road
users. For example
...
- where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works

https://www.gov.uk/rules-motorcyclists-83-to-88 :

Manoeuvring. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides
before manoeuvring. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted.
When in traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between
vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions or changing lanes.

--
David

Robert Bannister

2014-05-05 23:01:42 UTC

Post by Dr Nick
And it's the normal and quasi-official word for slow moving or
http://sandlerukblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/queues_likely1.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Zealand_Sign_Assembly_-_Signals_Ahead_With_Queue.svg

What does it mean? Traffic lights with queued vehicles? Don't vehicles
always form a queue at the lights?

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2014-05-05 17:04:13 UTC

On Mon, 05 May 2014 17:27:31 +0100, charles

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Plenty of opportunities for a queue to form behind a slow moving vehicle,
especially one towing a caravan here in the UK. It isn't so much the
narrowness of the road, but the twistiness, meaning the would-be overtaker
can see far enough ahead to make it safe to pass.
The word queue is derived from the French meaning a 'tail'. A number of
following vehicles can easily constitute a tail, even if they don't want to
be.

In some cases the "queue" can be long enough to be a "tailback":
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tailback

British
A long queue of stationary or slow-moving traffic extending
back from a busy junction or similar obstruction on the road:

"tailbacks affected all roads into Leeds"

"These buses stop the traffic and cause tailbacks down Tadcaster
Road every day as they turn left from the middle lane on Blossom
Street."
....

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Tony Cooper

2014-05-05 17:28:35 UTC

On Mon, 05 May 2014 17:27:31 +0100, charles

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Plenty of opportunities for a queue to form behind a slow moving vehicle,
especially one towing a caravan here in the UK. It isn't so much the
narrowness of the road, but the twistiness, meaning the would-be overtaker
can see far enough ahead to make it safe to pass.
The word queue is derived from the French meaning a 'tail'. A number of
following vehicles can easily constitute a tail, even if they don't want to
be.

I don't think that UK differs from the US in this respect. I can
think of many roads in Florida where what you describe occurs because
of a RV or vehicle with a boat and trailer. The difference is that we
would not describe it as a queue.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Peter T. Daniels

2014-05-05 21:24:55 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Plenty of opportunities for a queue to form behind a slow moving vehicle,
especially one towing a caravan here in the UK. It isn't so much the
narrowness of the road, but the twistiness, meaning the would-be overtaker
can see far enough ahead to make it safe to pass
The word queue is derived from the French meaning a 'tail'. A number of
following vehicles can easily constitute a tail, even if they don't want to
be.

I kind of assumed that everyone by now knows what "our ... regions"
means when I refer to Tony's and mine.

Neither of us has seen such a sign, but perhaps they are useful in
parts of the world with "unimproved" roads.

Tony Cooper

2014-05-05 17:26:27 UTC

On Mon, 5 May 2014 09:03:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Hah! I invite you to view Interstate 4 - the main corridor through
Orlando - between 7 and 9 AM and 4 to 6 PM. The bunched-up traffic
will be at a standstill at times.

At the On Ramps, there will be a line of cars waiting for a break in
the flow of traffic to enter I-4. I would not call that a queue.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Peter T. Daniels

2014-05-05 21:27:42 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 5 May 2014 09:03:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Hah! I invite you to view Interstate 4 - the main corridor through
Orlando - between 7 and 9 AM and 4 to 6 PM. The bunched-up traffic
will be at a standstill at times.
At the On Ramps, there will be a line of cars waiting for a break in
the flow of traffic to enter I-4. I would not call that a queue.

I wouldn't call either of those, or the Holland Tunnel approach a
few blocks from my house, candidates for the signs under consideration.

John Varela

2014-05-06 01:03:26 UTC

On Mon, 5 May 2014 17:26:27 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 5 May 2014 09:03:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Hah! I invite you to view Interstate 4 - the main corridor through
Orlando - between 7 and 9 AM and 4 to 6 PM. The bunched-up traffic
will be at a standstill at times.
At the On Ramps, there will be a line of cars waiting for a break in
the flow of traffic to enter I-4. I would not call that a queue.

At some place like a ferry dock where many vehicles are in line,
waiting for the ferry, I would call that a queue.

--
John Varela

Tony Cooper

2014-05-06 03:40:47 UTC

Post by John Varela
On Mon, 5 May 2014 17:26:27 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 5 May 2014 09:03:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:55 +0100, Dr Nick

Post by Dr Nick
Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

It could be that narrow roads are quite rare in our more populated
regions any more, so that there aren't many opportunities any more
for traffic to bunch up without the option of a passing lane.

Hah! I invite you to view Interstate 4 - the main corridor through
Orlando - between 7 and 9 AM and 4 to 6 PM. The bunched-up traffic
will be at a standstill at times.
At the On Ramps, there will be a line of cars waiting for a break in
the flow of traffic to enter I-4. I would not call that a queue.

At some place like a ferry dock where many vehicles are in line,
waiting for the ferry, I would call that a queue.

I would call it a line. The idea of a queue - to me - is that it
establishes the order of who has the next turn...to board a bus, buy a
ticket, enter a place, etc. Even if the person in the queue moves a
little bit out of position, that person's place is kept. In some
queues, if the crowd is amenable, the person can leave the queue and
return to the same place in order.

With automobiles, no matter what they are waiting for, there's no
mistaking which is next. They form a line and stay in that position.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Mark Brader

2014-05-05 18:49:02 UTC

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic.
I could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

Thinking about it again, it's more complicated. I agree with Tony and
Nick's usage of "pull out", but I think it can go both ways: out of the
parking space or out of the traffic. I don't accept Tony's "pull in"
for the latter move, and I again note that the lay-by-type thing we've
been talking about is a "turnout" or "turn-out" (also "pullout" in my
usage), not a "turn-in".

Post by Tony Cooper
I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context.

It's foreign to me too, but I understand what it means; it's talking
about congested traffic, a succession of cars each delayed by the one
in front. That's a useful thing to have a word for.

Post by Tony Cooper
All queues that I know about are standing human beings.

I use it more generally to refer to things like work items, or waiting
lists, especially if they are tracked by a computer.

--
Mark Brader | "Justices look solemn in their formal black robes, but
Toronto | every so often they like to have a little fun by taking on
***@vex.net | a strange case, or overturning a presidential election, that
sort of thing." --Christopher Buckley, "Supreme Courtship"

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Tony Cooper

2014-05-05 19:14:38 UTC

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic.
I could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

Post by Tony Cooper
I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context.

It's foreign to me too, but I understand what it means; it's talking
about congested traffic, a succession of cars each delayed by the one
in front. That's a useful thing to have a word for.

I have words for it. Salty ones.

Post by Tony Cooper
All queues that I know about are standing human beings.

I use it more generally to refer to things like work items, or waiting
lists, especially if they are tracked by a computer.

The most frequent usage of queue for me is the description of the
number of pages to print in the printer queue. Forgot about that one.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Mack A. Damia

2014-05-05 19:19:06 UTC

On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:14:38 -0400, Tony Cooper

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic.
I could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

Post by Tony Cooper
I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context.

It's foreign to me too, but I understand what it means; it's talking
about congested traffic, a succession of cars each delayed by the one
in front. That's a useful thing to have a word for.

I have words for it. Salty ones.

"Clusterfucks" when referring to Mexican traffic jams.

--

Tak To

2014-05-05 19:14:51 UTC

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic.
I could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

Post by Tony Cooper
I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context.

It's foreign to me too, but I understand what it means; it's talking
about congested traffic, a succession of cars each delayed by the one
in front. That's a useful thing to have a word for.

In a mathematics paper that I have read, it is called
a "convoy" and the phenomenon of traffic bunching up
behind a slow mover is called the "Convoy Syndrome".
I find the name useful but it is not used widely.

Post by Tony Cooper
All queues that I know about are standing human beings.

I use it more generally to refer to things like work items, or waiting
lists, especially if they are tracked by a computer.

There is "Queuing Theory" in mathematics.

Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

Katy Jennison

2014-05-05 20:14:15 UTC

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic.
I could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

Post by Tony Cooper
I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context.

It's foreign to me too, but I understand what it means; it's talking
about congested traffic, a succession of cars each delayed by the one
in front. That's a useful thing to have a word for.

In BrE a convoy would normally be a procession of vehicles deliberately
travelling together. The effect might be exactly the same, of course.

--
Katy Jennison

Tak To

2014-05-06 03:17:04 UTC

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

It looks like it might.
I "pull in" to the side of the road. I "pull out" into traffic.
I could "turn off" the road but not "turn out".
So does "pull in" mean "drive away" in North American?

Not to me. I "pull in" when I pull out of traffic and go into a gas
station or store. Leaving the store's parking area, I pull out into
traffic.
However, I do pull into a lane when entering a road...especially when
entering a controlled access road.

Yes, so do I. So why did Mark object to my "pull in" for what you have
to do when there is a queue behind you. Or have I been whooshed?

Post by Tony Cooper
I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context.

It's foreign to me too, but I understand what it means; it's talking
about congested traffic, a succession of cars each delayed by the one
in front. That's a useful thing to have a word for.

In BrE a convoy would normally be a procession of vehicles deliberately
travelling together.

That is the normal AmE meaning as well. The mathematician
extended the definition intentionally.

Post by Katy Jennison
The effect might be exactly the same, of course.

Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

Peter Moylan

2014-05-06 01:19:46 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
I can't speak for Mark, but the concept of a "queue" in traffic just
doesn't register with me. There can be a line of traffic, but I don't
recognize "queue" in that context. All queues that I know about are
standing human beings. The most likely place to find a queue in this
area is at Disney World, and they are waiting to board a ride.

What about a stationary line of cars waiting to board a ferry? To me,
that's definitely a queue. As is the queue that forms while waiting for
a traffic light to turn green.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Tony Cooper

2014-05-06 03:44:11 UTC

On Tue, 06 May 2014 11:19:46 +1000, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

What about a stationary line of cars waiting to board a ferry? To me,
that's definitely a queue. As is the queue that forms while waiting for
a traffic light to turn green.

There's a ferry that I catch every few months. When I go up to visit
our daughter in Jacksonville Beach FL, we take the Mayport ferry to a
favorite restaurant of ours. We form a line of cars to wait to board
the ferry. I've never used the word queue to describe the line.

I don't think it's wrong, mind you. I just don't use it.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Robert Bannister

2014-05-05 22:57:42 UTC

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean...

I think it means (and if it does I'm in favour of it and would commend
it to several people I followed earlier today) that if you are the front
vehicle of a queue of 6 vehicles you have to pull in

No, out! As in turnout. Does this go together with the British reversal
of "inside lane" and "outside lane"?

Must do: you pull out to overtake or avoid a child.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Robert Bannister

2014-05-05 22:56:38 UTC

Post by Katy Jennison
Ah! Light dawns. How sensible. (Although I'm not convinced that some
of the drivers I've followed in that sort of queue ever look into their
mirrors to see if they've collected a tail, or would be capable of
counting up to five if they did.)

I'm never sure which surprises me most: the number of caravan-towers who
pull off on the side of the road to let everyone pass or the number that
don't.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

musika

2014-05-04 13:15:13 UTC

Post by Katy Jennison
The third one says "Delay of 5 vehicles illegal. Must use turnouts."
Does that mean that a convoy of four can pull up anywhere by the side of
the road, but if there are five or more of you you have to stop in one
or more turnout? I haven't thought of any other interpretation; am I
missing something?

I think it means:
If you are holding up a line of 5 vehicles you must pull in to let them
pass.

--
Ray
UK

micky

2014-05-02 19:31:46 UTC

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

How can anyone powernap. Is that some sort of way to make macho guys
think they're not helpless and vulnerable when they're napping?

Robert Bannister

2014-05-02 22:13:48 UTC

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

How can anyone powernap. Is that some sort of way to make macho guys
think they're not helpless and vulnerable when they're napping?

You must keep up with the business-speak. Of course, only high-powered
business people can power-nap.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Robert Bannister

2014-05-02 22:43:28 UTC

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

How can anyone powernap. Is that some sort of way to make macho guys
think they're not helpless and vulnerable when they're napping?

You must keep up with the business-speak. Of course, only high-powered
business people can power-nap.

Thinking about this again, I now not so sure whether this really is
business-speak or women's-magazine-speak.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2014-05-02 23:46:29 UTC

On Sat, 03 May 2014 06:43:28 +0800, Robert Bannister

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

How can anyone powernap. Is that some sort of way to make macho guys
think they're not helpless and vulnerable when they're napping?

You must keep up with the business-speak. Of course, only high-powered
business people can power-nap.

Thinking about this again, I now not so sure whether this really is
business-speak or women's-magazine-speak.

OED:

power nap n. orig. and chiefly N.Amer. a brief but refreshing nap,
esp. one taken during a long working day to restore alertness.

1980 Globe & Mail 25 Aug. 13/6 The renewed energy he brought
with him led to more speculation that perhaps he had used the
90-minute absence from stage to take a power nap.
1992 Times (Nexis) 9 Jan., Lech Walesa, aged 48, the president
of Poland, takes ten-minute ‘power naps’ during the day, and
sometimes dozes while standing... He needs only five hours sleep a
night.
2001 Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram (Nexis) 24 Mar., Art banks
on the 15-minute power nap, saying it gets him through the rest of
his long days.

The first quote is from a Canadian newspaper. It is from the city whose
mayor has currently taken time off his "duties" for a rehabilitative
power nap.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Robert Bannister

2014-05-03 23:27:38 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sat, 03 May 2014 06:43:28 +0800, Robert Bannister

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

How can anyone powernap. Is that some sort of way to make macho guys
think they're not helpless and vulnerable when they're napping?

You must keep up with the business-speak. Of course, only high-powered
business people can power-nap.

Thinking about this again, I now not so sure whether this really is
business-speak or women's-magazine-speak.

power nap n. orig. and chiefly N.Amer. a brief but refreshing nap,
esp. one taken during a long working day to restore alertness.
1980 Globe & Mail 25 Aug. 13/6 The renewed energy he brought
with him led to more speculation that perhaps he had used the
90-minute absence from stage to take a power nap.
1992 Times (Nexis) 9 Jan., Lech Walesa, aged 48, the president
of Poland, takes ten-minute ‘power naps’ during the day, and
sometimes dozes while standing... He needs only five hours sleep a
night.
2001 Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram (Nexis) 24 Mar., Art banks
on the 15-minute power nap, saying it gets him through the rest of
his long days.
The first quote is from a Canadian newspaper. It is from the city whose
mayor has currently taken time off his "duties" for a rehabilitative
power nap.

I would have thought it was one of his duties. I liked the idea of
Walesa only needing 5 hours sleep, but then sleeps while standing up
during the day.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Peter Moylan

2014-05-02 23:22:02 UTC

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

How can anyone powernap. Is that some sort of way to make macho guys
think they're not helpless and vulnerable when they're napping?

The term, as it is used on Victorian road signs, seems to refer to
getting a good night's sleep in 15 minutes. Then you take your
stimulants and start the truck up again.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Robert Bannister

2014-05-02 22:11:38 UTC

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

But "rest areas" normally have toilets and occasionally food & drink. I
thought we were talking about a plain bit of road, often gravel,
parallel to the real road, where you can stop and stretch. Truck drivers
often sleep in them - less noise than the commercialised ones. I still
can't think what they're called here, though.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

John Holmes

2014-05-03 13:54:51 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
Often, they are bits of old road left over from when they
straightened the road, but yours and Tony's descriptions are as
good as any. They're not called "lay-bys" in Australia either and
now the right term won't come to me.

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with
some slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

But "rest areas" normally have toilets and occasionally food & drink.
I thought we were talking about a plain bit of road, often gravel,
parallel to the real road, where you can stop and stretch. Truck
drivers often sleep in them - less noise than the commercialised
ones. I still can't think what they're called here, though.

Here are guides to all the rest stops along major highways in Victoria:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/lmmpg3l
which leads to
http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/racv/Internet/Primary/travel/before+you+go/plan+your+rest+stops

Those are categorised as
-roadside stop
-rest area
-truck stop
-service centre
-town
in approximately ascending order of size and facilities.

If you open some of the PDFs, you can see the range of facilities at
each. Broadly, the first 3 might have little more than a picnic table or
two, and either a scenic view or a large enough space for large trucks
to park far enough off the road for drivers to sleep. Some have toilets,
but many of those are being economically rationalised where they might
compete with commercial stops at service centres and towns.

On busy holiday weekends, some of the rest areas are manned by groups
from the local emergency services offering free tea and coffee to
encourage drivers to take a break.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

micky

2014-05-04 01:59:05 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
Often, they are bits of old road left over from when they
straightened the road, but yours and Tony's descriptions are as
good as any. They're not called "lay-bys" in Australia either and
now the right term won't come to me.

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with
some slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

But "rest areas" normally have toilets and occasionally food & drink.
I thought we were talking about a plain bit of road, often gravel,
parallel to the real road, where you can stop and stretch. Truck
drivers often sleep in them - less noise than the commercialised
ones. I still can't think what they're called here, though.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lmmpg3l
which leads to
http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/racv/Internet/Primary/travel/before+you+go/plan+your+rest+stops
Those are categorised as
-roadside stop
-rest area
-truck stop
-service centre
-town
in approximately ascending order of size and facilities.
If you open some of the PDFs, you can see the range of facilities at
each. Broadly, the first 3 might have little more than a picnic table or
two, and either a scenic view or a large enough space for large trucks
to park far enough off the road for drivers to sleep. Some have toilets,
but many of those are being economically rationalised where they might
compete with commercial stops at service centres and towns.
On busy holiday weekends, some of the rest areas are manned by groups
from the local emergency services offering free tea and coffee to
encourage drivers to take a break.

I stopped for gas or food or something on an xway, at a restaurant, etc.
that spanned the xway, in Italy, and I noticed it had showers. I
thought that was great, but unfortunately I didn't need a shower.

The last time that I'd seen public showers outside of a poor n'hood, was
at a train station on the west side of downtown Chicago.

Tony Cooper

2014-05-04 02:17:28 UTC

Post by micky
I stopped for gas or food or something on an xway, at a restaurant, etc.
that spanned the xway, in Italy, and I noticed it had showers. I
thought that was great, but unfortunately I didn't need a shower.
The last time that I'd seen public showers outside of a poor n'hood, was
at a train station on the west side of downtown Chicago.

The larger truck stops in Florida have showers and laundry facilities.
They are there for the over-the-road truck drivers, but it seems that
just anyone can walk in an use one. I've never tried, though.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Tak To

2014-05-04 22:04:12 UTC

I have the impression that large truck stops these days
(usually called "Travel Center" or similar names) have
_private_ showers for a nominal fee. Years ago I inquired
at such a place in Connecticut, and was told that it was
free if I bought 50 or more (US) gallons of fuel and $7
otherwise. A clean towel was included.

Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

Tony Cooper

2014-05-04 22:10:51 UTC

Any discount if a dirty towel was included?

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Tak To

2014-05-04 22:39:13 UTC

Any discount if a dirty towel was included?

Didn't ask. Probably not.

Tak
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

Stan Brown

2014-05-03 11:02:04 UTC

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

In New York State, quite often we see "Rest Area - No Comfort
Facilities".

"Rest Area" used to be a euphemism for "toilet stop". Now we must
have a second euphemism to tell us when the first euphemism is
inoperative.

Mark Brader

2014-05-03 11:19:42 UTC

Post by Stan Brown
In New York State, quite often we see "Rest Area - No Comfort
Facilities".
"Rest Area" used to be a euphemism for "toilet stop". Now we must
have a second euphemism to tell us when the first euphemism is
inoperative.

That may have varied between states, or over time, or something.
I remember seeing signs at some time in the past, possibly in
Michigan, for a "Rest Area" *with* a "Comfort Station".

--
Mark Brader, Toronto | There is no step function between "safe" and "unsafe".
***@vex.net | -- Jeff Janes

My text in this article is in the public domain.

John Holmes

2014-05-03 13:59:40 UTC

That may have varied between states, or over time, or something.
I remember seeing signs at some time in the past, possibly in
Michigan, for a "Rest Area" *with* a "Comfort Station".

Ah, we have an official National Public Toilet database, with its own
iPhone app for when you need to know were to go when you are on the go:
https://toiletmap.gov.au/

You can even "Login or register to personalise your Toilet Map
experience including saving maps, trips plans and toilet information."

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

Robert Bannister

2014-05-03 23:40:22 UTC

That may have varied between states, or over time, or something.
I remember seeing signs at some time in the past, possibly in
Michigan, for a "Rest Area" *with* a "Comfort Station".

Ah, we have an official National Public Toilet database, with its own
https://toiletmap.gov.au/
You can even "Login or register to personalise your Toilet Map
experience including saving maps, trips plans and toilet information."

I found that very handy when my mother was still alive. There are a
surprising number of public toilets with no provision for the
handicapped. I recall I informed them about a few of the entries that
needed correcting.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Dr Nick

2014-05-04 06:35:13 UTC

Post by John Holmes
Ah, we have an official National Public Toilet database, with its own
https://toiletmap.gov.au/
You can even "Login or register to personalise your Toilet Map
experience including saving maps, trips plans and toilet information."

Last time I visited Canberra I went for a couple of long walks round the
lake (well what else is there to do?) and was very impressed by the
public toilet - and drinking fountain - provision. They're something
that has been slashed* by local councils trying to reduce expenditure.

*brits: did you see what I did there.

John Holmes

2014-05-04 11:03:33 UTC

Provision of most things is better in the ACT than elsewhere in the
country. Our local councils are copping the same cuts. Many of these
roadside stops used to have rubbish bins, which have now been replaced
by signs telling you to take your rubbish with you.

Post by Dr Nick
*brits: did you see what I did there.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2014-05-04 11:47:55 UTC

On Sun, 04 May 2014 07:35:13 +0100, Dr Nick

Yes.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Peter Moylan

2014-05-04 13:16:04 UTC

Even this Australian saw it.

In recent years, Australian State governments have discovered that they
can cut costs by giving local councils responsibility for things that
used to be done by the state. That means that the councils have to do
more without extra income, and they deal with that by cutting services.

Canberra doesn't have to deal with a state government, and as the
national capital it's financially privileged in other ways, so it's very
well off in terms of public amenities.

I don't mind this, except for one detail. I'm always shocked by the
greenness of the public grassed areas. Some of the surrounding areas can
be affected by severe drought, and Canberra still gets to water its lawns.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Tony Cooper

2014-05-04 20:08:47 UTC

On Sun, 04 May 2014 07:35:13 +0100, Dr Nick

Some Yanks took it, too. Some of us are a whizz at that.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Mike L

2014-05-04 21:54:18 UTC

On Sun, 04 May 2014 16:08:47 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 04 May 2014 07:35:13 +0100, Dr Nick

Some Yanks took it, too. Some of us are a whizz at that.

It must have tinkled a bell in your memory.

--
Mike.

CDB

2014-05-05 11:35:00 UTC

Post by Mike L

Post by John Holmes
Ah, we have an official National Public Toilet database, with
its own iPhone app for when you need to know were to go when
you are on the go: https://toiletmap.gov.au/
You can even "Login or register to personalise your Toilet Map
experience including saving maps, trips plans and toilet
information."

Last time I visited Canberra I went for a couple of long walks
round the lake (well what else is there to do?) and was very
impressed by the public toilet - and drinking fountain -
provision. They're something that has been slashed* by local
councils trying to reduce expenditure.
*brits: did you see what I did there.

Some Yanks took it, too. Some of us are a whizz at that.

It must have tinkled a bell in your memory.

Yellow alert! They have kidnapped Mr French!

Robert Bannister

2014-05-05 23:08:20 UTC

Some of your odd humour is leaking through.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

Joe Fineman

2014-05-03 21:37:52 UTC

But then it isn't a euphemism -- the area actually is for resting! But
don't you dare take any comfort from your rest.

--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain :||
||: solvent. :||

micky

2014-05-04 02:04:34 UTC

On Sat, 3 May 2014 07:02:04 -0400, Stan Brown

"Rest area" is the most common sign on them around here, often with some
slogans such as "drowsy drivers die" or "powernap now".

In New York State, quite often we see "Rest Area - No Comfort
Facilities".
"Rest Area" used to be a euphemism for "toilet stop".

I must be naive. I just thought it was a place to rest.

Post by Stan Brown
Now we must
have a second euphemism to tell us when the first euphemism is
inoperative.

John Varela

2014-04-30 19:00:05 UTC

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:33:41 UTC, Katy Jennison

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

And yet if he turned into a driveway, it would be unremarkable.
I truly don't understand the difference between "into" and "in to".

(The following may not work in AmE.)
A young lady was standing at the side of the road thumbing a lift. A
man stopped and picked her up. "So, what do you do?" he said, making
conversation. "I'm a witch," she said. "Oh? Do you do magic?" "Oh
yes!" "Go on then - turn me into something." So she leant over and
kissed him, and he turned into a lay-by.

I need an explanation.

--
John Varela

Mark Brader

2014-04-30 22:01:04 UTC

Post by John Varela

Post by Katy Jennison
A young lady was standing at the side of the road thumbing a lift. A
man stopped and picked her up. "So, what do you do?" he said, making
conversation. "I'm a witch," she said. "Oh? Do you do magic?" "Oh
yes!" "Go on then - turn me into something." So she leant over and
kissed him, and he turned into a lay-by.

I need an explanation.

A roadside parking area.

--
Mark Brader "All I can say is that the work
Toronto has been done well in every way."
***@vex.net --William C. Van Horne, 1885-11-07

John Varela

2014-05-01 23:00:15 UTC

Post by John Varela

I need an explanation.

A roadside parking area.

Thanks.

--
John Varela

John Varela

2014-04-30 18:57:57 UTC

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 02:34:51 UTC, Stan Brown

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

And yet if he turned into a driveway, it would be unremarkable.
I truly don't understand the difference between "into" and "in to".

WIWAL "little moron" jokes were popular with the Jr. high school
set. The only one I remember is: Did you hear about the little magic
moron? He went around the corner and turned into a drugstore.

"Moron" became a non-PC word so by the time my children were that
age their jokes had elephants and grapes as protagonists. (Why is it
dangerous to go into the woods at six o'clock? Because that's when
the elephants jump out of the trees. What is purple and can leap
tall buildings at a single bound? Supergrape. I don't think that
generation was as clever as ours.)

--
John Varela

Tony Cooper

2014-04-30 20:15:51 UTC

Post by John Varela
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 02:34:51 UTC, Stan Brown

Post by David Harmon
Congressman Michael Grimm turns himself into FBI
Quite a trick.

And yet if he turned into a driveway, it would be unremarkable.
I truly don't understand the difference between "into" and "in to".

WIWAL "little moron" jokes were popular with the Jr. high school
set. The only one I remember is: Did you hear about the little magic
moron? He went around the corner and turned into a drugstore.
"Moron" became a non-PC word so by the time my children were that
age their jokes had elephants and grapes as protagonists. (Why is it
dangerous to go into the woods at six o'clock? Because that's when
the elephants jump out of the trees. What is purple and can leap
tall buildings at a single bound? Supergrape. I don't think that
generation was as clever as ours.)

Wasn't one of the three wishes of the Little Moron "Make me a
milkshake"?

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

John Varela

2014-05-01 22:59:08 UTC

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 20:15:51 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by John Varela
On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 02:34:51 UTC, Stan Brown