Discussion:
Big bickies
(too old to reply)
Stephen Calder
2006-09-22 02:05:15 UTC
Permalink
I was reminded of this Australian phrase by a TV commercial for a game
where the prize was $30,000. "That's big bickies" said the announcer,
meaning "a lot of money".

This led me to do some research.

There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a stick
at. For a long time it was spelt "bikkie" in Australia, but seems to
have changed to "bickie" more recently. It's also spelt "biccie."

A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"), and is known in the
UK as well as in Australia. But in the UK it's spelt "bicky" or "bikky";
the SOED (2002) does not record any other spellings. SOED marks it
"nursery & joc."

"Big bickies", though, seems uniquely Australian, first recorded in
Kings Cross, Sydney, an inner city suburb formerly well known as a
centre of the underworld and a red-light district. They've cleaned it up
a bit in recent years but it's still on the seedy side.

The Macquarie Dictionary gives a very full account of its etymology in
the following terms:

"From the notion that the biscuit tin was a time-honoured place to store
house-keeping money. The expression was recorded in the 1960s in Kings
Cross, Sydney, and was in use by professional punters from about the
same time."

The Australian National Dictionary, 1988 (AND is the Australian
supplement to the OED) lists "bikkies" under this spelling as meaning
"money" and cites the local newspaper, the Kings Cross Whisper, as the
first known source in print, dated 1966. AND lists Australianisms and
Australian usages only. The phrase "big bikkies" occurs in only one of
the quotations, dated 1981.

Interestingly, AND says it a facetious use of "bicky" (so spelt) meaning
biscuit. The interesting part is the spelling.

The spellings "bicky" and "bikky" are not given in the Australian
Concise Oxford or the Australian Oxford Dictionary.
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
TakenEvent
2006-09-22 02:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Calder
I was reminded of this Australian phrase by a TV commercial for a game
where the prize was $30,000. "That's big bickies" said the announcer,
meaning "a lot of money".
This led me to do some research.
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a stick
at. For a long time it was spelt "bikkie" in Australia, but seems to
have changed to "bickie" more recently. It's also spelt "biccie."
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"),
[...]


I've never heard either biscuits or cookies referred to as "bickies" - are
you sure about this US citation? I believe you about the other countries.
Stephen Calder
2006-09-22 02:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by TakenEvent
Post by Stephen Calder
I was reminded of this Australian phrase by a TV commercial for a game
where the prize was $30,000. "That's big bickies" said the announcer,
meaning "a lot of money".
This led me to do some research.
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a stick
at. For a long time it was spelt "bikkie" in Australia, but seems to
have changed to "bickie" more recently. It's also spelt "biccie."
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"),
[...]
I've never heard either biscuits or cookies referred to as "bickies" - are
you sure about this US citation? I believe you about the other countries.
It's not a citation; I'm sorry it was ambiguous. I was saying that
biscuits are better known in the US as cookies.

I would not expect "bickie" to be recognised in the US.
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
TakenEvent
2006-09-23 12:33:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Calder
Post by TakenEvent
Post by Stephen Calder
I was reminded of this Australian phrase by a TV commercial for a game
where the prize was $30,000. "That's big bickies" said the announcer,
meaning "a lot of money".
This led me to do some research.
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a stick
at. For a long time it was spelt "bikkie" in Australia, but seems to
have changed to "bickie" more recently. It's also spelt "biccie."
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"),
[...]
I've never heard either biscuits or cookies referred to as "bickies" - are
you sure about this US citation? I believe you about the other countries.
It's not a citation; I'm sorry it was ambiguous. I was saying that
biscuits are better known in the US as cookies.
I would not expect "bickie" to be recognised in the US.
Ah, okay. I'll take half the credit for the ambiguity for this one. I
should've figured that's all you meant.
Salvatore Volatile
2006-09-22 03:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by TakenEvent
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a stick
at. For a long time it was spelt "bikkie" in Australia, but seems to
have changed to "bickie" more recently. It's also spelt "biccie."
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"),
[...]
I've never heard either biscuits or cookies referred to as "bickies" - are
you sure about this US citation? I believe you about the other countries.
I think he's saying that "bikkie" is BrE+ for "cookie", the latter being a
US term.

Strictly speaking, BrE "biscuit" also includes savoury biscuits, which in
AmE we call "crackers".
--
Salvatore Volatile
T.H. Entity
2006-09-22 12:15:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 03:01:20 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
Post by Salvatore Volatile
Post by TakenEvent
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a stick
at. For a long time it was spelt "bikkie" in Australia, but seems to
have changed to "bickie" more recently. It's also spelt "biccie."
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"),
[...]
I've never heard either biscuits or cookies referred to as "bickies" - are
you sure about this US citation? I believe you about the other countries.
I think he's saying that "bikkie" is BrE+ for "cookie", the latter being a
US term.
Strictly speaking, BrE "biscuit" also includes savoury biscuits, which in
AmE we call "crackers".
Huh? Who's speaking so strictly? Jacob's and TUC* -- the usual
vehicles for the usual glow-in-the-dark orange faux Cheddar -- aren't
biscuits; they're crackers (or perhaps, in TweeBrE, "cream crackers").
Perhaps you're thinking of the misleading set phrase "cheese and
biscuits", the biscuitine component of which does indeed consist of
crackers.

Now, about "wafers"....

[* Not to be confused with the Trades Union Congress, brothers, which
is pronounced [,ti:ju:'si:] rather than [tVk].]

--
THE

"If you or I use a word inappropriately, that's an error. If a newspaper
uses a word inappropriately, that's a citation source for the dictionaries."
-- Peter Moylan
Mike Barnes
2006-09-22 14:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by T.H. Entity
Huh? Who's speaking so strictly? Jacob's and TUC* -- the usual
vehicles for the usual glow-in-the-dark orange faux Cheddar -- aren't
biscuits; they're crackers (or perhaps, in TweeBrE, "cream crackers").
Jacobs[1] Cream Crackers are biscuits. They're made by United Biscuits.

Anyone with any taste would eschew Jacobs and TUCs in favours of water
biscuits.

[1] No apostrophe unless you count that ear of wheat:
http://www.britishdelights.com/prod_b17.htm
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
LFS
2006-09-22 15:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by T.H. Entity
Huh? Who's speaking so strictly? Jacob's and TUC* -- the usual
vehicles for the usual glow-in-the-dark orange faux Cheddar -- aren't
biscuits; they're crackers (or perhaps, in TweeBrE, "cream crackers").
Jacobs[1] Cream Crackers are biscuits. They're made by United Biscuits.
Anyone with any taste would eschew Jacobs and TUCs in favours of water
biscuits.
http://www.britishdelights.com/prod_b17.htm
And then there's Cornish Wafers...
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Robert Bannister
2006-09-23 01:50:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by T.H. Entity
Huh? Who's speaking so strictly? Jacob's and TUC* -- the usual
vehicles for the usual glow-in-the-dark orange faux Cheddar -- aren't
biscuits; they're crackers (or perhaps, in TweeBrE, "cream crackers").
Jacobs[1] Cream Crackers are biscuits. They're made by United Biscuits.
Anyone with any taste would eschew Jacobs and TUCs in favours of water
biscuits.
My local Asian supermarket sells some crackers from China that are the
best I've ever had - hard to describe, but somewhere between a water
biscuit and a digestive. Plus they are dirt cheap and seem to keep crisp
forever.
--
Rob Bannister
T.H. Entity
2006-09-23 10:13:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:55:26 +0100, Mike Barnes
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by T.H. Entity
Huh? Who's speaking so strictly? Jacob's and TUC* -- the usual
vehicles for the usual glow-in-the-dark orange faux Cheddar -- aren't
biscuits; they're crackers (or perhaps, in TweeBrE, "cream crackers").
Jacobs[1] Cream Crackers are biscuits. They're made by United Biscuits.
Anyone with any taste would eschew Jacobs and TUCs in favours of water
biscuits.
Of course, but would Sal call water biscuits "crackers"?

--
THE

"If you or I use a word inappropriately, that's an error. If a newspaper
uses a word inappropriately, that's a citation source for the dictionaries."
-- Peter Moylan
Maria
2006-09-22 05:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Stephen Calder wrote:
[...]
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a
stick at. [...]
"...poke a stick at" AusE, I presume.
"...shake a stick at" AmE, to the best of my knowledge.

Other Englishes: Poke or shake?
--
Maria
There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name.
Maria
2006-09-22 06:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
[...]
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a
stick at. [...]
"...poke a stick at" AusE, I presume.
"...shake a stick at" AmE, to the best of my knowledge.
Other Englishes: Poke or shake?
Mike Barnes
2006-09-22 06:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
[...]
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a
stick at. [...]
"...poke a stick at" AusE, I presume.
"...shake a stick at" AmE, to the best of my knowledge.
Other Englishes: Poke or shake?
BrE: "shake", IME.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Frank ess
2006-09-22 17:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Maria
[...]
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a
stick at. [...]
"...poke a stick at" AusE, I presume.
"...shake a stick at" AmE, to the best of my knowledge.
Other Englishes: Poke or shake?
BrE: "shake", IME.
UtahE: "pokes" are specifically for sharp sticks.
"Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick"; otherwise,
"shake".
--
Frank ess
Peter Moylan
2006-09-22 07:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
[...]
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a
stick at. [...]
"...poke a stick at" AusE, I presume.
"...shake a stick at" AmE, to the best of my knowledge.
Other Englishes: Poke or shake?
I'd say "shake". I think AusE accepts both.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.
the Omrud
2006-09-22 08:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
[...]
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a
stick at. [...]
"...poke a stick at" AusE, I presume.
"...shake a stick at" AmE, to the best of my knowledge.
Other Englishes: Poke or shake?
Shake. I don't think I've ever seen "poke a stick at".
--
David
=====
John Dean
2006-09-22 13:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
[...]
Post by Stephen Calder
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a
stick at. [...]
"...poke a stick at" AusE, I presume.
"...shake a stick at" AmE, to the best of my knowledge.
Other Englishes: Poke or shake?
Shake a stick at
Poke with a stick
--
John Dean
Oxford
Will
2006-09-22 12:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Calder
I was reminded of this Australian phrase by a TV commercial for a game
where the prize was $30,000. "That's big bickies" said the announcer,
meaning "a lot of money".
This led me to do some research.
There are more spellings for the word "bickie" than you can poke a stick
at. For a long time it was spelt "bikkie" in Australia, but seems to
have changed to "bickie" more recently. It's also spelt "biccie."
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"), and is known in the
UK as well as in Australia. But in the UK it's spelt "bicky" or "bikky";
the SOED (2002) does not record any other spellings. SOED marks it
"nursery & joc."
I've always spelt it "biccy". That is, when I've felt the need to
spell it at all.

Will.

BrE.
Wood Avens
2006-09-22 13:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will
Post by Stephen Calder
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"), and is known in the
UK as well as in Australia. But in the UK it's spelt "bicky" or "bikky";
the SOED (2002) does not record any other spellings. SOED marks it
"nursery & joc."
I've always spelt it "biccy". That is, when I've felt the need to
spell it at all.
Me too. And suspecting that most Brits agree, I tried a quick Google
of UK sites. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of
non-biscuit-related people or groups called Bickie, but when I added
"+ biscuit" to the search I got

biccy 1500
bicky 238
bickie 148
bikky 96
bikkie 387
(and for completeness I tried biccie too, and got no hits at all.)

Looks like an open-and-shut biccy-tin* to me.

* = US "cookie-jar".
--
Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Stephen Calder
2006-09-22 14:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wood Avens
Post by Will
Post by Stephen Calder
A "bickie" is colloquial for biscuit (US "cookie"), and is known in the
UK as well as in Australia. But in the UK it's spelt "bicky" or "bikky";
the SOED (2002) does not record any other spellings. SOED marks it
"nursery & joc."
I've always spelt it "biccy". That is, when I've felt the need to
spell it at all.
Me too. And suspecting that most Brits agree, I tried a quick Google
of UK sites. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of
non-biscuit-related people or groups called Bickie, but when I added
"+ biscuit" to the search I got
biccy 1500
bicky 238
bickie 148
bikky 96
bikkie 387
(and for completeness I tried biccie too, and got no hits at all.)
Looks like an open-and-shut biccy-tin* to me.
* = US "cookie-jar".
Someone run and tell the OED editors.
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
R H Draney
2006-09-22 16:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wood Avens
Me too. And suspecting that most Brits agree, I tried a quick Google
of UK sites. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of
non-biscuit-related people or groups called Bickie, but when I added
"+ biscuit" to the search I got
biccy 1500
bicky 238
bickie 148
bikky 96
bikkie 387
(and for completeness I tried biccie too, and got no hits at all.)
Only one for "bicquie", and the referent there is liver-flavored (the site is a
dachshund-fancier's page)....r
--
"Screwing Type Gloomy - Giant Swing" --- Gloomy makes your world turn
around! Watch out for this charming toy teddy-bear that amazes you with
his agile walking skills through a special wind-up mechanism. Enjoy the
joyful company of this active playing wonder right away!
Mike Lyle
2006-09-22 23:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Wood Avens
Me too. And suspecting that most Brits agree, I tried a quick Google
of UK sites. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of
non-biscuit-related people or groups called Bickie, but when I added
"+ biscuit" to the search I got
biccy 1500
bicky 238
bickie 148
bikky 96
bikkie 387
(and for completeness I tried biccie too, and got no hits at all.)
Only one for "bicquie", and the referent there is liver-flavored (the site is a
dachshund-fancier's page)....r
I wonder if this "b-whatever" thing is an example of the BrTypeE
tendency, so justly deplored by Sal (though I think he was Richard at
the time), to overuse baby-talk? For my part, it gets right up my nose.
But I'm not at all clear where ordinary adult slang stops and the
whoopsie-poohs bit starts: I've already found that some of the things I
regard as beyond the tinkie-winkie boundary don't come across that way
at all to others here.

ObOnTopic: other bakery stuff often stands in for money -- dough, bread
-- so why not biscuits?
--
Mike.
Wood Avens
2006-09-23 10:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
I wonder if this "b-whatever" thing is an example of the BrTypeE
tendency, so justly deplored by Sal (though I think he was Richard at
the time), to overuse baby-talk? For my part, it gets right up my nose.
But I'm not at all clear where ordinary adult slang stops and the
whoopsie-poohs bit starts: I've already found that some of the things I
regard as beyond the tinkie-winkie boundary don't come across that way
at all to others here.
Hmm. I hadn't considered this till you mentioned it, but I don't
think of "biccy" as baby-talk, simply as an abbreviation or an
ordinary informal alternative. Is this, though, because I naturally
assume that the informal words I use are ordinary and acceptable
whereas those used by other people are deplorable baby-talk? I
wouldn't dream of using words like "woof-woof" or "doggy" or any of
the similar infantilisms, whether talking to adults or to small
children. But where do you classify, for instance "brekkie" or, come
to that, "brekker"? "Pressie"? I think there's a "verging on the
twee" category which is quite independent of baby-talk, though there
might be a few words in common.
--
Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-23 11:20:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wood Avens
Post by Mike Lyle
I wonder if this "b-whatever" thing is an example of the BrTypeE
tendency, so justly deplored by Sal (though I think he was Richard
at the time), to overuse baby-talk? For my part, it gets right up
my nose. But I'm not at all clear where ordinary adult slang stops
and the whoopsie-poohs bit starts: I've already found that some of
the things I regard as beyond the tinkie-winkie boundary don't come
across that way at all to others here.
Hmm. I hadn't considered this till you mentioned it, but I don't
think of "biccy" as baby-talk, simply as an abbreviation or an
ordinary informal alternative. Is this, though, because I naturally
assume that the informal words I use are ordinary and acceptable
whereas those used by other people are deplorable baby-talk? I
wouldn't dream of using words like "woof-woof" or "doggy" or any of
the similar infantilisms, whether talking to adults or to small
children. But where do you classify, for instance "brekkie" or, come
to that, "brekker"? "Pressie"? I think there's a "verging on the
twee" category which is quite independent of baby-talk, though there
might be a few words in common.
For some reason, "brekker" sounds very public school type to my ears.
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
Mike Lyle
2006-09-23 13:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Wood Avens
Post by Mike Lyle
I wonder if this "b-whatever" thing is an example of the BrTypeE
tendency, so justly deplored by Sal (though I think he was Richard
at the time), to overuse baby-talk? For my part, it gets right up
my nose. But I'm not at all clear where ordinary adult slang stops
and the whoopsie-poohs bit starts: I've already found that some of
the things I regard as beyond the tinkie-winkie boundary don't come
across that way at all to others here.
Hmm. I hadn't considered this till you mentioned it, but I don't
think of "biccy" as baby-talk, simply as an abbreviation or an
ordinary informal alternative. Is this, though, because I naturally
assume that the informal words I use are ordinary and acceptable
whereas those used by other people are deplorable baby-talk? I
wouldn't dream of using words like "woof-woof" or "doggy" or any of
the similar infantilisms, whether talking to adults or to small
children. But where do you classify, for instance "brekkie" or, come
to that, "brekker"? "Pressie"? I think there's a "verging on the
twee" category which is quite independent of baby-talk, though there
might be a few words in common.
For some reason, "brekker" sounds very public school type to my ears.
Provisionally, I blame Aristophanes.

Katy's observation matches my difficulty. There's slang, there's twee,
and there's baby-talk; and I don't really know where to place
particular words. But she also draws attention to the phenomenon I
referred to: many adult BrEtc speakers _do_ use baby-sounding words. If
there's any such thing as baby-talk, how can "biccy" _not_ be a prime
specimen of it? Diminutive termination, simplification of a
consonant-cluster: what more does one want?

"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the baby
one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by those
who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas "Crimbo". But
I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it sounds more like
Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification too far.

"Brekkie" is probably on the baby side of my map. It's all too
dificult.

OK, one small experiment. Do American doctors talk to patients about
their "tummies"?
--
Mike.
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-23 13:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the baby
one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by those
who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas "Crimbo".
But I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it sounds more
like Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification too far.
I'd always assumed that Crimbo was an Australianism.
Post by Mike Lyle
OK, one small experiment. Do American doctors talk to patients about
their "tummies"?
Do British ones?
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
Mike Lyle
2006-09-23 13:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the baby
one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by those
who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas "Crimbo".
But I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it sounds more
like Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification too far.
I'd always assumed that Crimbo was an Australianism.
Not as far as I know.
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
OK, one small experiment. Do American doctors talk to patients about
their "tummies"?
Do British ones?
Yes. Needless to say, I don't imagine they all do. The way they use
"pop" to express various kinds of movement: it's apparently meant to be
reassuring.
--
Mike.
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-23 14:11:54 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Robert Bannister
2006-09-24 00:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
OK, one small experiment. Do American doctors talk to patients
about their "tummies"?
Do British ones?
Yes. Needless to say, I don't imagine they all do.
If a doctor said "tummy" to me I'd probably feel that he or she was
taking the piss, although it could depend on context.
Sounds normal enough to me, though I don't think my doctor would use it.
--
Rob Bannister
Linz
2006-09-24 12:10:56 UTC
Permalink
On 23 Sep 2006 14:11:54 GMT, "A. Gwilliam"
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
OK, one small experiment. Do American doctors talk to patients
about their "tummies"?
Do British ones?
Yes. Needless to say, I don't imagine they all do.
If a doctor said "tummy" to me I'd probably feel that he or she was
taking the piss, although it could depend on context. In my general
experience, doctors are lousy at speaking to other human beings.
Admittedly, my experience has probably been sharply coloured by having
once had a GP who was forced to take early retirement due to
"irregularities".
Post by Mike Lyle
The way they use
"pop" to express various kinds of movement: it's apparently meant to
be reassuring.
Huh?
Just pop your jumper off and pop onto the couch while I pop out and
get the nurse. I'll pop back in a mo and see how you're doing.
--
Hooray for the differently sane.
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-24 16:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linz
On 23 Sep 2006 14:11:54 GMT, "A. Gwilliam"
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
OK, one small experiment. Do American doctors talk to patients
about their "tummies"?
Do British ones?
Yes. Needless to say, I don't imagine they all do.
If a doctor said "tummy" to me I'd probably feel that he or she was
taking the piss, although it could depend on context. In my general
experience, doctors are lousy at speaking to other human beings.
Admittedly, my experience has probably been sharply coloured by
having once had a GP who was forced to take early retirement due to
"irregularities".
Post by Mike Lyle
The way they use
"pop" to express various kinds of movement: it's apparently meant
to >> be reassuring.
Post by A. Gwilliam
Huh?
Just pop your jumper off and pop onto the couch while I pop out and
get the nurse. I'll pop back in a mo and see how you're doing.
Oh, I see. I thought it was a description of a symptom!

I can't see that the usage is particularly objectionable, assuming that
its not with the frequency found in your example. Plenty of people
will "pop down to the shops" for something.

Using "pop" to refer to undressing is a way of dealing with the fact
that most of us don't ask strangers to undress for us. It's also less
clinical [no pun intended] than asking someone who may already be
nervous to "remove" their top, or whatever.
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
Linz
2006-09-24 17:28:39 UTC
Permalink
On 24 Sep 2006 16:41:46 GMT, "A. Gwilliam"
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Linz
On 23 Sep 2006 14:11:54 GMT, "A. Gwilliam"
Post by Mike Lyle
The way they use
"pop" to express various kinds of movement: it's apparently meant
to >> be reassuring.
Huh?
Just pop your jumper off and pop onto the couch while I pop out and
get the nurse. I'll pop back in a mo and see how you're doing.
Oh, I see. I thought it was a description of a symptom!
I can't see that the usage is particularly objectionable, assuming that
its not with the frequency found in your example. Plenty of people
will "pop down to the shops" for something.
The frequency is the problem. For some doctors, yes, it's that often.
Post by A. Gwilliam
Using "pop" to refer to undressing is a way of dealing with the fact
that most of us don't ask strangers to undress for us. It's also less
clinical [no pun intended] than asking someone who may already be
nervous to "remove" their top, or whatever.
But better is "take off".
--
Hooray for the differently sane.
R H Draney
2006-09-24 19:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linz
The frequency is the problem. For some doctors, yes, it's that often.
Post by A. Gwilliam
Using "pop" to refer to undressing is a way of dealing with the fact
that most of us don't ask strangers to undress for us. It's also less
clinical [no pun intended] than asking someone who may already be
nervous to "remove" their top, or whatever.
But better is "take off".
I've never paid much attention to the terminology used when I'm in such
situations, but "slip out of" or "slip off" feels right to me...to "pop"
something off carries a connotation of buttons and seams bursting open....r
--
"Screwing Type Gloomy - Giant Swing" --- Gloomy makes your world turn
around! Watch out for this charming toy teddy-bear that amazes you with
his agile walking skills through a special wind-up mechanism. Enjoy the
joyful company of this active playing wonder right away!
Robert Bannister
2006-09-24 23:58:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Gwilliam
Using "pop" to refer to undressing is a way of dealing with the fact
that most of us don't ask strangers to undress for us. It's also less
clinical [no pun intended] than asking someone who may already be
nervous to "remove" their top, or whatever.
I recollect a medical in Germany when I was about 20. I was asked to do
something like "make the upper body free", which in those days, was a
bit too much for my German. Come to think of it, on my first visit to an
English hospital, I had no idea of what "Have your bowels moved?" meant.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Moylan
2006-09-25 02:33:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by A. Gwilliam
Using "pop" to refer to undressing is a way of dealing with the
fact that most of us don't ask strangers to undress for us. It's
also less clinical [no pun intended] than asking someone who may
already be nervous to "remove" their top, or whatever.
Years ago "strip to the waist" was a common instruction from doctors. It
must have left a lot of people wondering "from which direction?"
Post by Robert Bannister
I recollect a medical in Germany when I was about 20. I was asked to
do something like "make the upper body free", which in those days,
was a bit too much for my German. Come to think of it, on my first
visit to an English hospital, I had no idea of what "Have your bowels
moved?" meant.
"Have you passed any flatus today?"
"No, doc, but I've sure been farting a lot."

That, at least, has changed. I've met several doctors who are
comfortable with using the word "fart".
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.
R H Draney
2006-09-25 06:05:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
"Have you passed any flatus today?"
"No, doc, but I've sure been farting a lot."
That, at least, has changed. I've met several doctors who are
comfortable with using the word "fart".
I'd like to find one who doesn't get all huffy ("that is a doctor word! you will
not speak it!") when I say "cerumen" instead of "earwax"....

Don't doctors know there are such things as crossword puzzles?...r
--
"Screwing Type Gloomy - Giant Swing" --- Gloomy makes your world turn
around! Watch out for this charming toy teddy-bear that amazes you with
his agile walking skills through a special wind-up mechanism. Enjoy the
joyful company of this active playing wonder right away!
Robert Bannister
2006-09-24 00:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the baby
one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by those
who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas "Crimbo".
But I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it sounds more
like Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification too far.
I'd always assumed that Crimbo was an Australianism.
Can't say I have ever heard it. That hot time of year is usually known
as "Chrissy". Note: you either give "Chrissy presents" or "Christmas
prezzies"; "Chrissy prezzies" is clearly baby talk.
--
Rob Bannister
Stephen Calder
2006-09-25 01:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the baby
one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by those
who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas "Crimbo".
But I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it sounds more
like Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification too far.
I'd always assumed that Crimbo was an Australianism.
Can't say I have ever heard it. That hot time of year is usually known
as "Chrissy". Note: you either give "Chrissy presents" or "Christmas
prezzies"; "Chrissy prezzies" is clearly baby talk.
I never heard of "Crimbo".
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
Mike Lyle
2006-09-25 14:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by Mike Lyle
"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the baby
one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by those
who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas "Crimbo".
But I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it sounds more
like Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification too far.
I'd always assumed that Crimbo was an Australianism.
Can't say I have ever heard it. That hot time of year is usually known
as "Chrissy". Note: you either give "Chrissy presents" or "Christmas
prezzies"; "Chrissy prezzies" is clearly baby talk.
The case for the prosecution is building well. All these cute
diminutives taken for granted by users of PostImperialE, and so far not
a word from NAmerica admitting that they do it too (not even from a
resident of Philly or Newfie*). "Jam buttie", anybody? A nice
non-rhotic "sarnie"?

*Not to mention Nevady or Californy. But I put placenames on the
non-cutesy side of the line, though I don't understand why.
--
Mike.
R H Draney
2006-09-25 16:49:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
The case for the prosecution is building well. All these cute
diminutives taken for granted by users of PostImperialE, and so far not
a word from NAmerica admitting that they do it too (not even from a
resident of Philly or Newfie*). "Jam buttie", anybody? A nice
non-rhotic "sarnie"?
*Not to mention Nevady or Californy. But I put placenames on the
non-cutesy side of the line, though I don't understand why.
In Sandy Eggo, they call people from my state "Zonies"...there's a suggestion of
disparagement about it, notwithstanding that many here have adopted the term for
intrastate use....

(At one time, nobody was proud to be an Okie, whether from Tulsa or Enid or
somewhere else)....r
--
"Screwing Type Gloomy - Giant Swing" --- Gloomy makes your world turn
around! Watch out for this charming toy teddy-bear that amazes you with
his agile walking skills through a special wind-up mechanism. Enjoy the
joyful company of this active playing wonder right away!
Frank ess
2006-09-25 18:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Mike Lyle
The case for the prosecution is building well. All these cute
diminutives taken for granted by users of PostImperialE, and so far
not a word from NAmerica admitting that they do it too (not even
from a resident of Philly or Newfie*). "Jam buttie", anybody? A
nice
non-rhotic "sarnie"?
*Not to mention Nevady or Californy. But I put placenames on the
non-cutesy side of the line, though I don't understand why.
In Sandy Eggo, they call people from my state "Zonies"...there's a
suggestion of disparagement about it, notwithstanding that many here
have adopted the term for intrastate use....
I'd not say "disparagement"; more like amazement. Giant flock of
semi-friendly heat-birds come and go, and leave traces of their
economy and culture. What is the Zonies' attitude toward the
"Snowbirds" from the north country?

Of course, this year many Zonies were disappointed: one of the three
hottest summers on record. I actually had to turn on a fan or two,
here at the homestead (about four miles east of Mission Beach) ( about
two miles due east of the high school after which "Fast Times At
Ridgemont High" was modelled).
--
Frank ess
--
Frank ess
"In this universe there are things
that just don't yield to thinking
—plain or fancy—Dude".
—J. Spicoli, PolyPartyPerson
Post by R H Draney
(At one time, nobody was proud to be an Okie, whether from Tulsa or
Enid or somewhere else)....r
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-25 20:56:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
they call people from my state
Which would be...?
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
R H Draney
2006-09-25 22:17:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by R H Draney
they call people from my state
Which would be...?
That's right, you're new here....

Arizona, though snipped context and a little ingenuity would have told you
that....r
--
"Screwing Type Gloomy - Giant Swing" --- Gloomy makes your world turn
around! Watch out for this charming toy teddy-bear that amazes you with
his agile walking skills through a special wind-up mechanism. Enjoy the
joyful company of this active playing wonder right away!
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-26 01:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by R H Draney
they call people from my state
Which would be...?
That's right, you're new here....
Arizona, though snipped context and a little ingenuity would have
told you that
It could've but it didn't. That's why I asked!

I suppose it'd be about right that I managed to think through a mental
list of all the western states, omitting only the one that actually
mattered. {sigh}
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
R H Draney
2006-09-26 07:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Gwilliam
I suppose it'd be about right that I managed to think through a mental
list of all the western states, omitting only the one that actually
mattered. {sigh}
Interesting...usually they leave out New Mexico....

("You got Nevada twice" - Chandler Bing)....r
--
"Screwing Type Gloomy - Giant Swing" --- Gloomy makes your world turn
around! Watch out for this charming toy teddy-bear that amazes you with
his agile walking skills through a special wind-up mechanism. Enjoy the
joyful company of this active playing wonder right away!
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-26 20:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by A. Gwilliam
I suppose it'd be about right that I managed to think through a
mental list of all the western states, omitting only the one that
actually mattered. {sigh}
Interesting...usually they leave out New Mexico....
I tend to visualise the map for this sort of thing. Unfortunately that
means I tend to struggle with the mid-western states, due to falling
between the two stools of travel and early US history.
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
Richard Bollard
2006-09-28 02:21:59 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Sep 2006 20:18:30 GMT, "A. Gwilliam"
Post by A. Gwilliam
Post by R H Draney
Post by A. Gwilliam
I suppose it'd be about right that I managed to think through a
mental list of all the western states, omitting only the one that
actually mattered. {sigh}
Interesting...usually they leave out New Mexico....
I tend to visualise the map for this sort of thing. Unfortunately that
means I tend to struggle with the mid-western states, due to falling
between the two stools of travel and early US history.
Compromise: a stalling between two fools.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-28 16:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Bollard
On 26 Sep 2006 20:18:30 GMT, "A. Gwilliam"
Post by A. Gwilliam
I tend to visualise the map for this sort of thing. Unfortunately
that means I tend to struggle with the mid-western states, due to
falling between the two stools of travel and early US history.
Compromise: a stalling between two fools.
I refuse to agree with that!
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
Wood Avens
2006-09-23 14:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
Provisionally, I blame Aristophanes.
Always a good way to coax a plaudit from your readers.
Post by Mike Lyle
Katy's observation matches my difficulty. There's slang, there's twee,
and there's baby-talk; and I don't really know where to place
particular words. But she also draws attention to the phenomenon I
referred to: many adult BrEtc speakers _do_ use baby-sounding words. If
there's any such thing as baby-talk, how can "biccy" _not_ be a prime
specimen of it? Diminutive termination, simplification of a
consonant-cluster: what more does one want?
It seems to me (and this is a distinction I was trying to make
earlier) that there's a difference between diminutives used only to
small children, and those used also in some adult contexts. On the
one hand "Look at the pwetty woof-woof!" and on the other "Why not pop
round to ours for a spot of vin and some cheese'n'biccies after the
race?"
Post by Mike Lyle
"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the baby
one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by those
who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas "Crimbo". But
I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it sounds more like
Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification too far.
Hmm again. I think of "Crimbo" and "prezzie" in the same bracket.
Said by the chic'n'trendy in the 80s, and now sounding dated and/or
twee, unless it's already in its retro-in phase.
Post by Mike Lyle
"Brekkie" is probably on the baby side of my map.
I think you're right there, but also that Andrew was on the right
lines about "brekker". Sloane-ish, like "sheepers" (sheepskin coat),
etc. I suspect a continuinuum with the Crimbo-sayers.
--
Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
A. Gwilliam
2006-09-23 15:05:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wood Avens
Post by Mike Lyle
Provisionally, I blame Aristophanes.
Always a good way to coax a plaudit from your readers.
Post by Mike Lyle
Katy's observation matches my difficulty. There's slang, there's
twee, and there's baby-talk; and I don't really know where to place
particular words. But she also draws attention to the phenomenon I
referred to: many adult BrEtc speakers do use baby-sounding words.
If there's any such thing as baby-talk, how can "biccy" not be a
prime specimen of it? Diminutive termination, simplification of a
consonant-cluster: what more does one want?
It seems to me (and this is a distinction I was trying to make
earlier) that there's a difference between diminutives used only to
small children, and those used also in some adult contexts. On the
one hand "Look at the pwetty woof-woof!" and on the other "Why not pop
round to ours for a spot of vin and some cheese'n'biccies after the
race?"
Post by Mike Lyle
"Prezzie" seems to me to be more in the twee department than the
baby one, but I'm not at all sure why. I'd expect it to be used by
those who, for reasons best known to themselves, call Christmas
"Crimbo". But I'm not at all sure that "Crimbo" itself is twee: it
sounds more like Scoutmasterese -- if that isn't a classification
too far.
Hmm again. I think of "Crimbo" and "prezzie" in the same bracket.
Said by the chic'n'trendy in the 80s, and now sounding dated and/or
twee, unless it's already in its retro-in phase.
Post by Mike Lyle
"Brekkie" is probably on the baby side of my map.
I think you're right there, but also that Andrew was on the right
lines about "brekker". Sloane-ish, like "sheepers" (sheepskin coat),
etc. I suspect a continuinuum with the Crimbo-sayers.
Hm. I think you're right. If Crimbo isn't an Aussieism [?!] then it
must be a Sloane Square-ism.
--
A. Gwilliam
To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull"
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