Flemish hawksbell as a unit of weight

[prpr]

I was reading that after the Spanish conquered the Caribbean islands,
they required the natives living near the mines to provide them with a
Flemish hawksbell worth of gold every three months. That was
explained by the author as between one-half and two-thirds of an
ounce.

Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle. Assuming Google is on to
something, that might be a variant spelling. Anyways, I've never heard
of this before, and I don't have access to the OED. Webster's online
didn't have anything on it.

Can anyone give me any details on this curious word? Is there an exact
weight?

[James Hogg]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:15:55 -0800 (PST), prpr

Post by prpr
I was reading that after the Spanish conquered the Caribbean islands,
they required the natives living near the mines to provide them with a
Flemish hawksbell worth of gold every three months. That was
explained by the author as between one-half and two-thirds of an
ounce.
Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle. Assuming Google is on to
something, that might be a variant spelling. Anyways, I've never heard
of this before, and I don't have access to the OED. Webster's online
didn't have anything on it.
Can anyone give me any details on this curious word? Is there an exact
weight?

This was new to me, but I Googled up the following cites showing
that it really does mean the "small spherical bell, for fastening
on the leg of a hawk" as the OED defines it:

"Some of them [the natives] wore some pieces of gold, hanging
from the nose, and they gladly gave these for a hawks' bell, of
the kind made for the foot of a sparrow-hawk, and for glass
beads."
http://www.athenapub.com/coluvoy1.htm

Columbus was "capturing Native peoples for slavery and extorting
gold through a quota of a hawks bell of gold dust to be supplied
by every Native over the age of 14 every 3 months. Failure to
fill the quota often entailed cutting the `violators' hands off
and leaving them to bleed to death."
http://sisis.nativeweb.org/sov/oh11500.html

"Every man and woman, every boy or girl of fourteen or older, in
the province of Cibao (of the imaginary gold fields) had to
collect gold for the Spaniards. As their measure, the Spaniards
used those same miserable hawks' bells, the little trinkets they
had given away so freely when they first came 'as if from
Heaven'."
http://www.nathanielturner.com/deathofanation.htm

So it's strictly an approximate volume rather than a weight.

The hawk's-bill turtle, on the other hand, is so called for
"having a mouth resembling the beak of a hawk" (OED).

James

[prpr]

Post by James Hogg
So it's strictly an approximate volume rather than a weight.
The hawk's-bill turtle, on the other hand, is so called for
"having a mouth resembling the beak of a hawk" (OED).
James

That seems reasonable. Thanks.

[James Hogg]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:29:24 -0800 (PST), prpr

Post by prpr

Post by James Hogg
So it's strictly an approximate volume rather than a weight.
The hawk's-bill turtle, on the other hand, is so called for
"having a mouth resembling the beak of a hawk" (OED).
James

That seems reasonable. Thanks.

Native chieftains had to pay much more. "Maoicaotex, the brother
of Caonabo, was obliged individually to render in, every three
months, half a calabash of gold, amounting to one hundred and
fifty pesos."
A calabash is a gourd, and thus another measure of volume.

There's a note:
"A hawk's-bell, according to Las Casas ( Hist. Ind., I i. c. 105)
contains about three castellanos' worth of gold dust, equal to
five dollars, and in estimating the superior value of gold in
those days, equivalent to fifteen dollars of our time. A quantity
of gold worth one hundred and fifty castellanos, was equivalent
to seven hundred and ninety-eight dollars of the present day."

That all comes from Washington Irving:
http://books.google.com/books?id=3oADAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA5-PA290&lpg=RA5-PA290

The Penguin translation has "a large bell-full of gold dust",
omitting both the hawks and the Flemish reference in
"un cascabel de Flandes" or "un cascabel flamenco".

James

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Post by prpr
I was reading that after the Spanish conquered the Caribbean islands,
they required the natives living near the mines to provide them with a
Flemish hawksbell worth of gold every three months. That was
explained by the author as between one-half and two-thirds of an
ounce.
Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle. Assuming Google is on to
something, that might be a variant spelling. Anyways, I've never heard
of this before, and I don't have access to the OED. Webster's online
didn't have anything on it.
Can anyone give me any details on this curious word? Is there an exact
weight?

OED:

hawk's bell, hawk-bell

A small spherical bell, for fastening on the leg of a hawk.

It is possible that there was a type and size of hawk's bell known as a
"Flemish hawk's bell" that was used as a weight for weighing the gold.

[John O'Flaherty]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:19:48 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"

Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)

Post by prpr
I was reading that after the Spanish conquered the Caribbean islands,
they required the natives living near the mines to provide them with a
Flemish hawksbell worth of gold every three months. That was
explained by the author as between one-half and two-thirds of an
ounce.
Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle. Assuming Google is on to
something, that might be a variant spelling. Anyways, I've never heard
of this before, and I don't have access to the OED. Webster's online
didn't have anything on it.
Can anyone give me any details on this curious word? Is there an exact
weight?

hawk's bell, hawk-bell
A small spherical bell, for fastening on the leg of a hawk.
It is possible that there was a type and size of hawk's bell known as a
"Flemish hawk's bell" that was used as a weight for weighing the gold.

Why would they fasten something to the leg of a hawk?

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Post by John O'Flaherty
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:19:48 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"

Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)

Post by prpr
I was reading that after the Spanish conquered the Caribbean islands,
they required the natives living near the mines to provide them with a
Flemish hawksbell worth of gold every three months. That was
explained by the author as between one-half and two-thirds of an
ounce.
Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle. Assuming Google is on to
something, that might be a variant spelling. Anyways, I've never heard
of this before, and I don't have access to the OED. Webster's online
didn't have anything on it.
Can anyone give me any details on this curious word? Is there an exact
weight?

hawk's bell, hawk-bell
A small spherical bell, for fastening on the leg of a hawk.
It is possible that there was a type and size of hawk's bell known as a
"Flemish hawk's bell" that was used as a weight for weighing the gold.

Why would they fasten something to the leg of a hawk?

It would be a trained hawk used for catching prey. The bells were used so that
the falconers could locate their hawks:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_(falconry)>

Falconry or hawking is an art or sport which involves the use of trained
raptors (birds of prey) to hunt or pursue game for humans.
....
....
Species used

Goshawks are excellent hunters, and were once called the "cook's hawk";
but they can be willful, unpredictable and sometimes hysterical. Rabbits
are bolted from their warrens with ferrets, or approached as they lie out.
The acceleration of a short-wing from a stand-still, especially the
Goshawk, is astonishing and a rabbit surprised at any distance from its
burrow has little hope of escape. Short-wings will dive after their quarry
into cover, where the tinkling of their bells is vital for locating the
bird. In many cases, modern falconers use radio telemetry to track their
birds.
....

[Robin Bignall]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:21:27 -0600, John O'Flaherty

Post by John O'Flaherty
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:19:48 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"

Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)

Post by prpr
I was reading that after the Spanish conquered the Caribbean islands,
they required the natives living near the mines to provide them with a
Flemish hawksbell worth of gold every three months. That was
explained by the author as between one-half and two-thirds of an
ounce.
Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle. Assuming Google is on to
something, that might be a variant spelling. Anyways, I've never heard
of this before, and I don't have access to the OED. Webster's online
didn't have anything on it.
Can anyone give me any details on this curious word? Is there an exact
weight?

hawk's bell, hawk-bell
A small spherical bell, for fastening on the leg of a hawk.
It is possible that there was a type and size of hawk's bell known as a
"Flemish hawk's bell" that was used as a weight for weighing the gold.

Why would they fasten something to the leg of a hawk?

To keep track of it if it got moody, flew away and wouldn't return to
hand. T H White's "Sword in the Stone" has the Wart (Arthur) chasing
such a hawk which, after training, would be very valuable.

[Prai Jei]

Post by prpr
Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle.

How much would a typical hawksbill weigh? What would be the value of its
weight in gold?

[Mike Lyle]

Post by Prai Jei

Post by prpr
Google kept asking me if I really meant "hawksbill," which from the
links I clicked on, is a type of turtle.

How much would a typical hawksbill weigh? What would be the value of
its weight in gold?

A MS in my possession, dating from 1497, expresses these relative values
in King's Ransoms. The document is, of course, rather late, but it
remains indicative. One standard Hawksbill was worth 2 KR, equivalent to
one Emperor's Ransom, or 4 Archdukes' Ransoms, 8 Dukes' R, 16 Earls' or
Counts' R, 32 Baronets' R, 48 Knights' R, or 4480 Priest's R. The
ransoms of Paynim captives was negotiated ad hoc by heralds from both
sides at the scene of the battle, as no precise equivalence was ever
agreed, in spite of persistent attempts by the Knights of Malta: an
unfortunate precedent had been set by Saladin, who frequently released
his prisoners without demanding any ransom at all.

Most unfortunately, the page which gives the weight of a standard
Hawksbill of the period is missing.