Meaning of deracine?

Post by Dingbat
Meaning of deracine?
In this excerpt from an article authored in India, deracine (spelt
with too many acute accents to my eye) means self-hating, so to speak.
Citizens pejoratively called deracine have their hearts displaced from
India, not their bodies, as per their critics.
<<The most tragic aspect of the situation is that some of the most
vocal déraciné citizens of India, who are denouncing it, refuse to
look to examples of how other nation’s actually control their own
narrative and destiny.>>
http://indiafacts.org/why-endangered-india-has-few-well-wishers-abroad/
Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

It's OK by OED.

(adj.)‘Uprooted’ from one's (national or social) environment. (also as n. 'a person who is...')

1964 R. Church Voy. Home v. 71 The dreadful self-consciousness of so many déraciné Americans, aping
the hyper-civilized European decadents.
1967 Listener 22 June 832/1 Our ‘dynamic’ epoch has..produced a succession of déracinés ranging from
Bartók to Stravinsky.

But make sure you keep the accents.

Cheryl

2019-12-29 12:15:59 UTC

It's OK by OED.
(adj.)‘Uprooted’ from one's (national or social) environment. (also as n. 'a person who is...')
1964 R. Church Voy. Home v. 71 The dreadful self-consciousness of so many déraciné Americans, aping
the hyper-civilized European decadents.
1967 Listener 22 June 832/1 Our ‘dynamic’ epoch has..produced a succession of déracinés ranging from
Bartók to Stravinsky.
But make sure you keep the accents.

Interesting. I think it's a rare word in English, but I have encountered
it and assumed from context that is just meant cut off from one's roots,
perhaps by emigration, and possible to the extent that the person in
question didn't really feel connected to their ancestral home any more,
things having changed in both the ancestral country and the emigrant. I
completely missed (or that author didn't intend) the implication that
the person might also be imitating some foreign culture, as in the 1964
example.

--
Cheryl

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-29 13:41:11 UTC

Post by Cheryl

Post by Dingbat
Meaning of deracine?
In this excerpt from an article authored in India, deracine (spelt
with too many acute accents to my eye) means self-hating, so to speak.
Citizens pejoratively called deracine have their hearts displaced from
India, not their bodies, as per their critics.
<<The most tragic aspect of the situation is that some of the most
vocal déraciné citizens of India, who are denouncing it, refuse to
look to examples of how other nation's actually control their own
narrative and destiny.>>
http://indiafacts.org/why-endangered-india-has-few-well-wishers-abroad/
Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

It's OK by OED.
(adj.)'Uprooted' from one's (national or social) environment. (also as
n. 'a person who is...')
1964 R. Church Voy. Home v. 71 The dreadful self-consciousness of so
many déraciné Americans, aping the hyper-civilized European decadents.
1967 Listener 22 June 832/1 Our 'dynamic' epoch has..produced a
succession of déracinés ranging from Bartók to Stravinsky.
But make sure you keep the accents.

Deracine may occur in two ways:
the person may cut himself off from his roots,
or others may try to cut his roots away from him.
The latter seems to be what is happening here.
India is converting to dumb religionist rule of the worst kind.

Orthodox hunduism is declared to be the true roots of India.
Whoever who doesn't fit is declared (in the rag quoted above)
to be deracine, the quislings, and many other denigrating terms.
BTW, the link given by Dingbat appears to be the Indian equivalent
of American christian alt-right.

BTW, for Dingbat, is the word 'bunker-mentality' used in India?

Jan

Dingbat

2019-12-31 08:48:11 UTC

BTW, for Dingbat, is the word 'bunker-mentality' used in India? - Jan

SEIGE MENTALITY, more likely.

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-31 11:39:44 UTC

Post by Dingbat
BTW, for Dingbat, is the word 'bunker-mentality' used in India? - Jan
SEIGE MENTALITY, more likely.

Siege mentality, shirly?

Both 'siege mentality' and 'bunker mentality' are well known in English.
Not quite the same I think,
with siege mentality generally being used for larger groups,
even whole countries. (like Stalin's Soviet Union)
Bunker mentality,
modelled on Hitler and company in their last days,
is more often applied to small groups,
like the leadership of some company, or some sect.

Just my two cents,

Jan

PS Your nasty author seems to suffer from both.

Dingbat

2019-12-31 13:26:01 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
Siege mentality, shirly?

Yes, thanks for the spelling
correction.

Post by J. J. Lodder
Both 'siege mentality' and 'bunker
mentality' are well known in
English. Not quite the same I think,

Well, I haven't seen an Indian from
India use "bunker mentality".

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2019-12-31 20:10:27 UTC

Post by Dingbat
BTW, for Dingbat, is the word 'bunker-mentality' used in India? - Jan
SEIGE MENTALITY, more likely.

Siege mentality, shirly?
Both 'siege mentality' and 'bunker mentality' are well known in English.
Not quite the same I think,
with siege mentality generally being used for larger groups,
even whole countries. (like Stalin's Soviet Union)
Bunker mentality,
modelled on Hitler and company in their last days,
is more often applied to small groups,
like the leadership of some company, or some sect.
Just my two cents,
Jan
PS Your nasty author seems to suffer from both.

I'm not sure that "bunker mentality" is modeled on Hitler and company.

The earliest use of the phrase quoted in the OED is much more recent:

bunker mentality n. an attitude of (excessive) defensiveness
resulting from the perception of being under attack.

1974 Los Angeles Times 4 Dec. iv.12/7 The inertia of the bunker
mentality had taken over.

Between the last days of Hitler and the 1970s was the Cold War.
The fear of nuclear attack resulted in governments building bunkers from
which they could still attempt to keep their countries running.

There were also underground control centres, etc, in Britain (and other
countries) used during WWW2. Their existence became known some decades
after the war.
Just a few of them:
https://www.wired.co.uk/gallery/below-the-radar-gallery

The people in the USA known as "survivalists" could be described as
having a "bunker mentality".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

J. J. Lodder

2020-01-01 13:26:35 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Dingbat
BTW, for Dingbat, is the word 'bunker-mentality' used in India? - Jan
SEIGE MENTALITY, more likely.

Siege mentality, shirly?
Both 'siege mentality' and 'bunker mentality' are well known in English.
Not quite the same I think,
with siege mentality generally being used for larger groups,
even whole countries. (like Stalin's Soviet Union)
Bunker mentality,
modelled on Hitler and company in their last days,
is more often applied to small groups,
like the leadership of some company, or some sect.
Just my two cents,
Jan
PS Your nasty author seems to suffer from both.

I'm not sure that "bunker mentality" is modeled on Hitler and company.
bunker mentality n. an attitude of (excessive) defensiveness
resulting from the perception of being under attack.
1974 Los Angeles Times 4 Dec. iv.12/7 The inertia of the bunker
mentality had taken over.
Between the last days of Hitler and the 1970s was the Cold War.
The fear of nuclear attack resulted in governments building bunkers from
which they could still attempt to keep their countries running.
There were also underground control centres, etc, in Britain (and other
countries) used during WWW2. Their existence became known some decades
after the war.
https://www.wired.co.uk/gallery/below-the-radar-gallery
The people in the USA known as "survivalists" could be described as
having a "bunker mentality".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism

Bunker mentality is coupled with Hitler in many quotes. For example
<https://www.timesofisrael.com/labour-fires-peer-for-comparing-corbyn-le
adership-to-hitlers-bunker-mentality/>
Or:
<http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/evidence/bunker-mentality-hitler
s-final-days>

But you may be right that it is more recent,
and was reattached to Hitler after the 'Last Days' movie.

Jan

PS Some people have a strange sense of humour:
Bunker Mentality is the name of an outlet shop for golfers wear.
<https://bunker-mentality.com/collections/outlet>

Spains Harden

2019-12-29 15:04:47 UTC

Post by Cheryl

It's OK by OED.
(adj.)‘Uprooted’ from one's (national or social) environment. (also as n. 'a person who is...')
1964 R. Church Voy. Home v. 71 The dreadful self-consciousness of so many déraciné Americans, aping
the hyper-civilized European decadents.
1967 Listener 22 June 832/1 Our ‘dynamic’ epoch has..produced a succession of déracinés ranging from
Bartók to Stravinsky.
But make sure you keep the accents.

Also presumably "déracinées".

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-29 15:23:07 UTC

[-]

Post by Cheryl
Interesting. I think it's a rare word in English, but I have encountered
it and assumed from context that is just meant cut off from one's roots,
perhaps by emigration, and possible to the extent that the person in
question didn't really feel connected to their ancestral home any more,
things having changed in both the ancestral country and the emigrant. I
completely missed (or that author didn't intend) the implication that
the person might also be imitating some foreign culture, as in the 1964
example.

Also presumably "déracinées".

Ping Athel !

"Les Déracinés" is a novel by Maurice Barrès,

Jan

PS It is my spelling that is correct,
unless you intend to maltreat ladies.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-29 15:34:40 UTC

Also presumably "déracinées".

Ping Athel !
"Les Déracinés" is a novel by Maurice Barrès,

Ha. Who'd a thunk it? (I know little about Maurice Barrès beyond the
fact that he was an anti-Dreyfusard and not someone I'd want to have
known.)

Post by J. J. Lodder
PS It is my spelling that is correct,
unless you intend to maltreat ladies.

--
athel

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-29 18:33:03 UTC

Also presumably "déracinées".

Ping Athel !
"Les Déracinés" is a novel by Maurice Barrès,

Ha. Who'd a thunk it? (I know little about Maurice Barrès beyond the
fact that he was an anti-Dreyfusard and not someone I'd want to have
known.)

No doubt a creep too. One look at his picture should suffice,

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-29 19:05:15 UTC

Also presumably "déracinées".

Ping Athel !
"Les Déracinés" is a novel by Maurice Barrès,

Ha. Who'd a thunk it? (I know little about Maurice Barrès beyond the
fact that he was an anti-Dreyfusard and not someone I'd want to have
known.)

No doubt a creep too. One look at his picture should suffice,

It did!

Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD is
always on about them) has never been my forte, but I assumed it was you
doing the pinging and 'Arrison presuming something or other?

--
athel

Spains Harden

2019-12-29 19:18:45 UTC

Also presumably "déracinées".

Ping Athel !
"Les Déracinés" is a novel by Maurice Barrès,

Ha. Who'd a thunk it? (I know little about Maurice Barrès beyond the
fact that he was an anti-Dreyfusard and not someone I'd want to have
known.)

No doubt a creep too. One look at his picture should suffice,

It did!
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD is
always on about them) has never been my forte, but I assumed it was you
doing the pinging and 'Arrison presuming something or other?

Zut alors Athel! The female: "déracinées"?

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-29 21:48:09 UTC

Also presumably "déracinées".

Ping Athel !
"Les Déracinés" is a novel by Maurice Barrès,

Ha. Who'd a thunk it? (I know little about Maurice Barrès beyond the
fact that he was an anti-Dreyfusard and not someone I'd want to have
known.)

No doubt a creep too. One look at his picture should suffice,

It did!
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD is
always on about them) has never been my forte, but I assumed it was you
doing the pinging and 'Arrison presuming something or other?

Indeed, see above.
I also corrected his spelling in a part of the posting that has gotten
snipped,

Jan

PS There is a new Mac newsreader in the making, called MacCafe.
For the time being in French only. (text only, and MacSoup-like)
Another new one, also in beta, is called Usenapp. (also binary)
Who said usenet is dead,
and that newsreaders are no longer being written?

Ken Blake

2019-12-30 00:47:20 UTC

Also presumably "déracinées".

Ping Athel !
"Les Déracinés" is a novel by Maurice Barrès,

Ha. Who'd a thunk it? (I know little about Maurice Barrès beyond the
fact that he was an anti-Dreyfusard and not someone I'd want to have
known.)

No doubt a creep too. One look at his picture should suffice,

It did!
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD is
always on about them) has never been my forte, but I assumed it was you
doing the pinging and 'Arrison presuming something or other?

Indeed, see above.
I also corrected his spelling in a part of the posting that has gotten
snipped,
Jan
PS There is a new Mac newsreader in the making, called MacCafe.
For the time being in French only. (text only, and MacSoup-like)
Another new one, also in beta, is called Usenapp. (also binary)
Who said usenet is dead,

If usenet were dead, neither you nor I could be posting here. But it's
clearly moribund.

Post by J. J. Lodder
and that newsreaders are no longer being written?

--
Ken

Peter Moylan

2019-12-30 00:30:51 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD
is always on about them) has never been my forte,

Thunderbird, which I use for news, also has no chevrons by default.
Instead it uses those silly coloured lines at the side, which are harder
to interpret than chevrons. Luckily, I discovered at some time this year
how to get rid of the lines and re-enable the chevrons. It took a lot of
searching through the obscure settings, but it has been worth it.

Another newsreader that I used to use - possibly it was slrn - used
different text colours for different quoting levels. That seemed to work
fairly well.

Having written the above, I now realise that I have not fully restored
the chevrons. I still get the unwanted side lines on posts by Cheryl and
Athel, but chevrons for everyone else. I haven't figured out what those
two have in common.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Katy Jennison

2019-12-30 11:02:40 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD
is always on about them) has never been my forte,

Thunderbird, which I use for news, also has no chevrons by default.
Instead it uses those silly coloured lines at the side, which are harder
to interpret than chevrons. Luckily, I discovered at some time this year
how to get rid of the lines and re-enable the chevrons. It took a lot of
searching through the obscure settings, but it has been worth it.
Another newsreader that I used to use - possibly it was slrn - used
different text colours for different quoting levels. That seemed to work
fairly well.
Having written the above, I now realise that I have not fully restored
the chevrons. I still get the unwanted side lines on posts by Cheryl and
Athel, but chevrons for everyone else. I haven't figured out what those
two have in common.

I find that whether it's lines or chevrons, if I want to reply and click
on Follow-up they all show as chevrons, and that's when I need to be
sure I'm deleting up to the right point, so that's really the only time
I care. Simply reading through the posts, even without looking I can
usually tell who's posted what.

--
Katy Jennison

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-30 11:16:30 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD
is always on about them) has never been my forte,

Thunderbird, which I use for news, also has no chevrons by default.
Instead it uses those silly coloured lines at the side, which are harder
to interpret than chevrons. Luckily, I discovered at some time this year
how to get rid of the lines and re-enable the chevrons. It took a lot of
searching through the obscure settings, but it has been worth it.
Another newsreader that I used to use - possibly it was slrn - used
different text colours for different quoting levels. That seemed to work
fairly well.
Having written the above, I now realise that I have not fully restored
the chevrons. I still get the unwanted side lines on posts by Cheryl and
Athel, but chevrons for everyone else. I haven't figured out what those
two have in common.

I find that whether it's lines or chevrons, if I want to reply and
click on Follow-up they all show as chevrons, and that's when I need to
be sure I'm deleting up to the right point, so that's really the only
time I care. Simply reading through the posts, even without looking I
can usually tell who's posted what.

Well yes. In the post I was replying to it was pretty obvious that
'Arrison had posted something silly and that Jan had posted what I
wanted to comment on.

--
athel

Spains Harden

2019-12-30 16:40:19 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD
is always on about them) has never been my forte,

Thunderbird, which I use for news, also has no chevrons by default.
Instead it uses those silly coloured lines at the side, which are harder
to interpret than chevrons. Luckily, I discovered at some time this year
how to get rid of the lines and re-enable the chevrons. It took a lot of
searching through the obscure settings, but it has been worth it.
Another newsreader that I used to use - possibly it was slrn - used
different text colours for different quoting levels. That seemed to work
fairly well.
Having written the above, I now realise that I have not fully restored
the chevrons. I still get the unwanted side lines on posts by Cheryl and
Athel, but chevrons for everyone else. I haven't figured out what those
two have in common.

I find that whether it's lines or chevrons, if I want to reply and
click on Follow-up they all show as chevrons, and that's when I need to
be sure I'm deleting up to the right point, so that's really the only
time I care. Simply reading through the posts, even without looking I
can usually tell who's posted what.

Well yes. In the post I was replying to it was pretty obvious that
'Arrison had posted something silly and that Jan had posted what I
wanted to comment on.

You dissed "déracinées". If you are going to borrow a French word,
you can't just assume that all French people are men.

b***@aol.com

2019-12-30 17:35:35 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Incidentally, counting chevrons (which Unison doesn't have, but PTD
is always on about them) has never been my forte,

Thunderbird, which I use for news, also has no chevrons by default.
Instead it uses those silly coloured lines at the side, which are harder
to interpret than chevrons. Luckily, I discovered at some time this year
how to get rid of the lines and re-enable the chevrons. It took a lot of
searching through the obscure settings, but it has been worth it.
Another newsreader that I used to use - possibly it was slrn - used
different text colours for different quoting levels. That seemed to work
fairly well.
Having written the above, I now realise that I have not fully restored
the chevrons. I still get the unwanted side lines on posts by Cheryl and
Athel, but chevrons for everyone else. I haven't figured out what those
two have in common.

I find that whether it's lines or chevrons, if I want to reply and
click on Follow-up they all show as chevrons, and that's when I need to
be sure I'm deleting up to the right point, so that's really the only
time I care. Simply reading through the posts, even without looking I
can usually tell who's posted what.

Well yes. In the post I was replying to it was pretty obvious that
'Arrison had posted something silly and that Jan had posted what I
wanted to comment on.

You dissed "déracinées". If you are going to borrow a French word,
you can't just assume that all French people are men.

But neither that all French are women, that's what "inclusive writing"
is for: "déraciné·e·s" is now the official way of writing it in France
(but "déraciné(e)s" will do).

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-29 13:41:11 UTC

Post by Dingbat
Meaning of deracine?
In this excerpt from an article authored in India, deracine (spelt
with too many acute accents to my eye) means self-hating, so to speak.
Citizens pejoratively called deracine have their hearts displaced from
India, not their bodies, as per their critics.
<<The most tragic aspect of the situation is that some of the most
vocal déraciné citizens of India, who are denouncing it, refuse to
look to examples of how other nation's actually control their own
narrative and destiny.>>
http://indiafacts.org/why-endangered-india-has-few-well-wishers-abroad/
Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

It's OK by OED.
(adj.)'Uprooted' from one's (national or social) environment. (also as n.
'a person who is...')
1964 R. Church Voy. Home v. 71

This is Richard Church, The Voyage Home.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Church_(poet)>

Post by Ross
The dreadful self-consciousness of so many déraciné Americans, aping
the hyper-civilized European decadents.

Better described as 'civilised Americans', I think.
Church probably felt they should have been line-dancing
and eating hamburgers instead of listening to Europeans.

Post by Ross
1967 Listener 22 June 832/1 Our 'dynamic' epoch has..produced a
succession of déracinés ranging from Bartók to Stravinsky.

Better described as emigrées.
They hadn't lost their roots,
it was their home country that had fallen prey
to communist or fascist barbarity,

Post by Ross
But make sure you keep the accents.

Sûre,

Jan

Quinn C

2019-12-29 18:22:21 UTC

Post by Ross
1967 Listener 22 June 832/1 Our 'dynamic' epoch has..produced a
succession of déracinés ranging from Bartók to Stravinsky.

Better described as emigrées.

If you're talking about Ms. Bartók and Ms. Stravinsky.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

Jenny Telia

2019-12-30 13:48:30 UTC

It's OK by OED.
(adj.)‘Uprooted’ from one's (national or social) environment. (also as n. 'a person who is...')
1964 R. Church Voy. Home v. 71 The dreadful self-consciousness of so many déraciné Americans, aping
the hyper-civilized European decadents.
1967 Listener 22 June 832/1 Our ‘dynamic’ epoch has..produced a succession of déracinés ranging from
Bartók to Stravinsky.
But make sure you keep the accents.

<smile> The first thing that popped to mind was an Indian saying
déraciné in an Indian accent. Maybe racist, but still funny. </smile>

The web site looks a lot like a far-right Indian version of Breitbart News.

Quote:

"Of course, the backdrop to this outcome was more than a century of
Anglicised mis-education that created a profoundly déraciné estrangement
of Bengalis from the Indian mainstream, including their own greatest
saints and thinkers."

What the article fails to mention is that Indian culture had the concept
of 'untouchables' well before 'Anglicised mis-education'. There is
nothing more 'déraciné' than telling a significant proportion of your
population that they are dirty, beneath contempt and untouchable.

Peter T. Daniels

2019-12-30 15:00:29 UTC

Post by Jenny Telia
<smile> The first thing that popped to mind was an Indian saying
déraciné in an Indian accent. Maybe racist, but still funny. </smile>
The web site looks a lot like a far-right Indian version of Breitbart News.
"Of course, the backdrop to this outcome was more than a century of
Anglicised mis-education that created a profoundly déraciné estrangement
of Bengalis from the Indian mainstream, including their own greatest
saints and thinkers."
What the article fails to mention is that Indian culture had the concept
of 'untouchables' well before 'Anglicised mis-education'. There is
nothing more 'déraciné' than telling a significant proportion of your
population that they are dirty, beneath contempt and untouchable.

They, and the concept, however, are fully racinated in the society.

Peter Moylan

2019-12-28 23:55:29 UTC

Post by Dingbat
Meaning of deracine?
In this excerpt from an article authored in India, deracine (spelt
with too many acute accents to my eye) means self-hating, so to
speak. Citizens pejoratively called deracine have their hearts
displaced from India, not their bodies, as per their critics.
<<The most tragic aspect of the situation is that some of the most
vocal déraciné citizens of India, who are denouncing it, refuse to
look to examples of how other nation’s actually control their own
narrative and destiny.>>
http://indiafacts.org/why-endangered-india-has-few-well-wishers-abroad/

Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?

Post by Dingbat
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

I know the word from French, but didn't realise that it was also used in
English.

(And when I saw it without the acute accents, I didn't recognise it at
all, because of the usual English rule that a final 'e' is silent. I can
live with dropping accent marks from familiar words like "cafe" and
"divorcee", but it's not safe to omit them from less common words.)

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-29 08:00:48 UTC

Post by Dingbat
Meaning of deracine?
In this excerpt from an article authored in India, deracine (spelt
with too many acute accents to my eye) means self-hating, so to
speak. Citizens pejoratively called deracine have their hearts
displaced from India, not their bodies, as per their critics.
<<The most tragic aspect of the situation is that some of the most
vocal déraciné citizens of India, who are denouncing it, refuse to
look to examples of how other nation’s actually control their own
narrative and destiny.>>
http://indiafacts.org/why-endangered-india-has-few-well-wishers-abroad/

Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?

Post by Dingbat
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

I know the word from French, but didn't realise that it was also used in
English.

My thoughts too.

Post by Dingbat
(And when I saw it without the acute accents, I didn't recognise it at
all, because of the usual English rule that a final 'e' is silent. I can
live with dropping accent marks from familiar words like "cafe" and
"divorcee", but it's not safe to omit them from less common words.)

I wouldn't recognize it in English without the accents. I'd just think
it was a word I hadn't met before and whose meaning I couldn't deduce
from the context.

--
athel

HVS

2019-12-29 17:46:25 UTC

Post by Dingbat
Meaning of deracine?
In this excerpt from an article authored in India, deracine
(spelt with too many acute accents to my eye) means self-hating,
so to speak. Citizens pejoratively called deracine have their
hearts displaced from India, not their bodies, as per their
critics.
<<The most tragic aspect of the situation is that some of the
most vocal dÃ©racinÃ© citizens of India, who are denouncing it,
refuse to look to examples of how other nationâs actually
control their own narrative and destiny.>>
http://indiafacts.org/why-endangered-india-has-few-well-wishers-a
broad/

Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?

Post by Dingbat
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

I know the word from French, but didn't realise that it was also
used in English.

My thoughts too.

Post by Dingbat
(And when I saw it without the acute accents, I didn't recognise
it at all, because of the usual English rule that a final 'e' is
silent. I can live with dropping accent marks from familiar words
like "cafe" and "divorcee", but it's not safe to omit them from
less common words.)

I wouldn't recognize it in English without the accents. I'd just
think it was a word I hadn't met before and whose meaning I
couldn't deduce from the context.

I'm not familiar with this form of the word, but "deracination" -- as
an English word, with no accents -- worked its way into my passive
vocabulary at some point.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30 yrs) and BrEng (36 yrs),
indiscriminately mixed

Peter Moylan

2019-12-30 00:35:30 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan
(And when I saw it without the acute accents, I didn't recognise it
at all, because of the usual English rule that a final 'e' is
silent. I can live with dropping accent marks from familiar words
like "cafe" and "divorcee", but it's not safe to omit them from
less common words.)

I wouldn't recognize it in English without the accents. I'd just
think it was a word I hadn't met before and whose meaning I couldn't
deduce from the context.

Further on the missing accents: I still remember my amazement when I
discovered that some people pronounce "deshabille" something like
"dish-of-veal". I presume that it was the dropping of the accents that
led to the pronunciation change.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Ken Blake

2019-12-30 00:55:11 UTC

I wouldn't recognize it in English without the accents. I'd just
think it was a word I hadn't met before and whose meaning I couldn't
deduce from the context.

Speaking of pronunciation, I just watched the show "The Secret Life of
Dogs" on television. In it, the narrator mentions migratory birds. It's
a show from the BBC, and the narrator is British. He pronounced
"migratory" as my-GRATE-uh-ree. I don't think I've ever heard that
pronunciation before. I (and I think almost everyone else in the US) say
MY-gruh-to-ree . Is my-GRATE-uh-ree the standard pronunciation in the
UK? What about Australia?

--
Ken

Peter Moylan

2019-12-30 01:36:15 UTC

Post by Ken Blake
Speaking of pronunciation, I just watched the show "The Secret Life
of Dogs" on television. In it, the narrator mentions migratory birds.
It's a show from the BBC, and the narrator is British. He pronounced
"migratory" as my-GRATE-uh-ree. I don't think I've ever heard that
pronunciation before. I (and I think almost everyone else in the US)
say MY-gruh-to-ree . Is my-GRATE-uh-ree the standard pronunciation in
the UK? What about Australia?

Standard in Australia.

There are a few words like this where the AmE pronunciation has
first-syllable stress. Consider laboratory, for example.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Ross

2019-12-30 04:03:17 UTC

Standard in Australia.
There are a few words like this where the AmE pronunciation has
first-syllable stress. Consider laboratory, for example.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

As usual, a little more complicated.

AmE from Kenyon & Knott to present day has only MY-
(with secondary stress on third syllable, rhymes
with "story")

For BrE Jones I (1917) and also Michaelis/Jones 1913
have only MY- (NB with unstressed @ in third syllable,
which can disappear to give a 3-syllable MY-gr@-trI)
This continues to be the first pronunciation given
right through to the present OED and Jones XVIII.
However, GRATE makes an appearance as a second option
as early as Jones V (1940) and remains to this day --
with the same vanishing third syllable.

Somewhat similar for "laboratory". There's the
same Am/Br difference in the treatment of -tory.
AmE has LAB right through....except that M-W online
allows BOR right at the end of their list of variants.

BrE: Michaelis-Jones 1913 show LAB and BOR as equivalent.
Jones I (1917) has LAB [BOR] [ ] meaning 'less frequently'
But by Jones V (1940) it's BOR [LAB]
Jones XVIII and OED online have only BOR.

Generalization: These apparently simple dichotomies
are often not so clear-cut, and/or of quite recent
origin.

Ken Blake

2019-12-30 15:18:20 UTC

Standard in Australia.
There are a few words like this where the AmE pronunciation has
first-syllable stress. Consider laboratory, for example.

Thanks. Yes, I knew about "laboratory, but not "migratory"--probably
because "laboratory" is a more common word.

--
Ken

Ken Blake

2019-12-30 19:52:20 UTC

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 12:36:15 +1100, Peter Moylan

Standard in Australia.

Standard in the UK (IME).

Thanks.

Post by Peter Moylan
There are a few words like this where the AmE pronunciation has
first-syllable stress. Consider laboratory, for example.

--
Ken

Peter Young

2019-12-30 20:31:00 UTC

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 12:36:15 +1100, Peter Moylan

Standard in Australia.

Standard in the UK (IME).

And in mine.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

Peter Young

2019-12-30 07:30:55 UTC

I wouldn't recognize it in English without the accents. I'd just
think it was a word I hadn't met before and whose meaning I couldn't
deduce from the context.

I saw Isabelle
In her disabelle.
I saw she saw me.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-29 11:20:22 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Post by Dingbat
<<The most tragic aspect of the situation is that some of the most
vocal déraciné citizens of India, who are denouncing it, refuse to
look to examples of how other nation's actually control their own
narrative and destiny.>>
http://indiafacts.org/why-endangered-india-has-few-well-wishers-abroad/
Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

From the look of it it shouldn't be used in India either.
It looks like masty propaganda of the 'we are the true Indians' kind.
If you don't agree with us you don't belong here.

'Déraciné' is fine for people who say it about themselves.
It shouldn't be used to disqualify others,

Jan

Dingbat

2019-12-29 13:37:41 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Thanks.

From the look of it it shouldn't be used in India either.
It looks like nan'ny propaganda of the 'we are the true Indians' kind.
If you don't agree with us you don't belong here.

Sure, but I wasn't pushing the propaganda; I just wanted to know whether the propagandist used the word with a standard meaning.

Post by J. J. Lodder
'Déraciné' is fine for people who say it about themselves.
It shouldn't be used to disqualify others,

How about terms used only to pejoratively qualify others, such as Self-hating or asshole? Should the language be stripped of such terms?

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-29 14:51:36 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Thanks.

From the look of it it shouldn't be used in India either.
It looks like nan'ny propaganda of the 'we are the true Indians' kind.
If you don't agree with us you don't belong here.

Sure, but I wasn't pushing the propaganda; I just wanted to know whether
the propagandist used the word with a standard meaning.

Post by Dingbat
'Déraciné' is fine for people who say it about themselves.

It shouldn't be used to disqualify others,

How about terms used only to pejoratively qualify others, such as
Self-hating or asshole? Should the language be stripped of such terms?

You should strip abusive authors from your input instead,
especially so if they foam from the mouth, like this one.

BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Jan

Dingbat

2019-12-29 23:34:15 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Thanks.

From the look of it it shouldn't be used in India either.
It looks like nan'ny propaganda of the 'we are the true Indians' kind.
If you don't agree with us you don't belong here.

Sure, but I wasn't pushing the propaganda; I just wanted to know whether
the propagandist used the word with a standard meaning.

Post by Dingbat
'Déraciné' is fine for people who say it about themselves.

It shouldn't be used to disqualify others,

How about terms used only to pejoratively qualify others, such as
Self-hating or asshole? Should the language be stripped of such terms?

You should strip abusive authors from your input instead,
especially so if they foam from the mouth, like this one.
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

Peter Moylan

2019-12-30 00:41:10 UTC

On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 6:51:38 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

I usually see it with lower case, but I seem to see it used less and
less as the years go by.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-30 07:55:24 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

I usually see it with lower case, but I seem to see it used less and
less as the years go by.

By now most people have forgotten who Quisling was (if they ever knew).

--
athel

CDB

2019-12-30 15:21:02 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

I usually see it with lower case, but I seem to see it used less
and less as the years go by.

By now most people have forgotten who Quisling was (if they ever knew).

Perhaps there are fewer babies named "Vidkun" than there were.

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-31 10:52:16 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

I usually see it with lower case, but I seem to see it used less
and less as the years go by.

By now most people have forgotten who Quisling was (if they ever knew).

Perhaps there are fewer babies named "Vidkun" than there were.

Certainly true for the Netherlands,
where 'Anton', [1] and of course also 'Adolf'
almost disappeared directly after WW II.
AFAIK it didn't work that way in Belgium with Leon.
(from Leon Degrelle)

Jan

[1] After the local party leader, Anton Mussert.
(who was not as bad as Quisling,
but executed nevertheless)

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-31 13:57:34 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

I usually see it with lower case, but I seem to see it used less
and less as the years go by.

By now most people have forgotten who Quisling was (if they ever knew).

Perhaps there are fewer babies named "Vidkun" than there were.

Certainly true for the Netherlands,
where 'Anton', [1] and of course also 'Adolf'

I knew an Adolf once, admittedly as his middle name. He was older than
me, but young enough for it to have been a no-no he was named. His
parents came from Poland, but I don't think he was born there.

Post by J. J. Lodder
almost disappeared directly after WW II.
AFAIK it didn't work that way in Belgium with Leon.
(from Leon Degrelle)
Jan
[1] After the local party leader, Anton Mussert.
(who was not as bad as Quisling,
but executed nevertheless)

--
athel

Peter Moylan

2020-01-01 14:16:31 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I knew an Adolf once, admittedly as his middle name. He was older
than me, but young enough for it to have been a no-no he was
named. His parents came from Poland, but I don't think he was born
there.

If middle name it probably was a name running in the family that
they wanted to conserve. He could have used A. For all we know it
might be Mack Adolf Damia here,

The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.

I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that was
because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Jerry Friedman

2020-01-01 14:48:01 UTC

On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 9:16:34 AM UTC-5, Peter J. Moylan wrote:
…

Post by Peter Moylan
The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

Post by Peter Moylan
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that was
because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

Did they give you some reason to think so? I see a lot of your
publications are as P. Moylan in /IEEE Transactions on Automatic
Control/, which I assume is an American journal.

--
G. A. Friedman

Mack A. Damia

2020-01-01 17:08:56 UTC

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 06:48:01 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

OK Boomer.

Did they give you some reason to think so? I see a lot of your
publications are as P. Moylan in /IEEE Transactions on Automatic
Control/, which I assume is an American journal.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2020-01-01 17:41:54 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 06:48:01 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane,

who published one of his best-known papers as John Burdon Sanderson
Haldane, but as far as I know that was the only one, and he's always
known just as J. B. S. Haldane.

Post by Mack A. Damia

Post by Jerry Friedman
F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

OK Boomer.

Did they give you some reason to think so? I see a lot of your
publications are as P. Moylan in /IEEE Transactions on Automatic
Control/, which I assume is an American journal.

--
athel

RH Draney

2020-01-01 21:45:30 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

The Japanese have made this tradition into something of a
requirement...all scholarly papers and credentials give only the first
letter of each author's given name....

It gets more interesting in Russian, where the first letter of the given
name or patronymic (in Cyrillic) is transliterated, so you get citations
like "S. Yu. Epifanov"....r

Jerry Friedman

2020-01-02 16:56:41 UTC

Post by RH Draney

The Japanese have made this tradition into something of a
requirement...all scholarly papers and credentials give only the first
letter of each author's given name....
It gets more interesting in Russian, where the first letter of the given
name or patronymic (in Cyrillic) is transliterated, so you get citations
like "S. Yu. Epifanov"....r

Or the great astrophysicist Ya. B. Zel'dovich. (Wikipedia tells me he
was also a chemical physicist and weapons physicist and that he was
known as YaB.)

--
Jerry Friedman

Peter Moylan

2020-01-02 10:57:28 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 9:16:34 AM UTC-5, Peter J. Moylan
wrote: …

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

Post by Peter Moylan
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but
that was because I was publishing in American media, where the
editors were likely to be biased against people with no middle
initial.

Did they give you some reason to think so? I see a lot of your
publications are as P. Moylan in /IEEE Transactions on Automatic
Control/, which I assume is an American journal.

Yes, the IEEE is an American professional society. You might have been
misled by my publication list if you found it on my web site. For
convenience I show my name as P.J. Moylan on the lists of papers, but if
you follow the links to the papers you'll usually see the author listed
as Peter J. Moylan. Similar comments apply to the names of my co-authors.

It's possible I was wrong about editor influence. Thinking back on it, I
can see two reasons why I adopted the middle initial. One was that that
was the style used by the vast majority of authors in the journals to
which I submitted papers, and part of the secret for getting your
publications accepted is to study the writing style of the papers that
are being published [1]. The other was that my two research supervisors
(one for the M.E., the other for the Ph.D.) had both done their
postgraduate studies in America, and of course my earliest publications
were co-authored with them.

[1] Sadly, this sometimes leads to a turgid expository style, but it's
hard to go against established customs.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Jerry Friedman

2020-01-02 17:03:38 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 9:16:34 AM UTC-5, Peter J. Moylan
wrote: …

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

I don't know how I missed C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien. And
J. K. Rowling.

Post by Peter Moylan
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but
that was because I was publishing in American media, where the
editors were likely to be biased against people with no middle
initial.

Did they give you some reason to think so? I see a lot of your
publications are as P. Moylan in /IEEE Transactions on Automatic
Control/, which I assume is an American journal.

I looked at Google Scholar, which is what misled me. Should have
checked an actual paper or two.

Post by Peter Moylan
It's possible I was wrong about editor influence. Thinking back on it, I
can see two reasons why I adopted the middle initial. One was that that
was the style used by the vast majority of authors in the journals to
which I submitted papers, and part of the secret for getting your
publications accepted is to study the writing style of the papers that
are being published [1]. The other was that my two research supervisors
(one for the M.E., the other for the Ph.D.) had both done their
postgraduate studies in America, and of course my earliest publications
were co-authored with them.

It's all becoming clearer.

Post by Peter Moylan
[1] Sadly, this sometimes leads to a turgid expository style, but it's
hard to go against established customs.

Sad indeed.

--
Jerry Friedman

Peter T. Daniels

2020-01-02 17:29:03 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 9:16:34 AM UTC-5, Peter J. Moylan
wrote: …

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

I don't know how I missed C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien. And
J. K. Rowling.

My late English Sumerologist friend signed his publications either Jeremy
Black or J. A. Black -- but as he became known, and probably as he began
publishing in less specialized journals, or maybe because his books came
to be of interest to a wider audience, he was faced with the well-known
pre-existing historian Jeremy Black, so he had to become Jeremy A. Black.

Has anyone but the Britannica's This Day in History noticed that today
is Ikey Asimov's 100th birthday?

Quinn C

2020-01-02 18:15:45 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 9:16:34 AM UTC-5, Peter J. Moylan
wrote: …

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

I don't know how I missed C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien. And
J. K. Rowling.

A.A. Milne, C.S. Forester, T.S. Eliot, P.G. Wodehouse ...

Not unknown in the US: H.P. Lovecraft, J.D. Salinger.

Sometimes a method to hide the gender of the author, as with J.K.
Rowling, S.E. Hinton, and Helena G. Wells.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

Mack A. Damia

2020-01-02 18:32:30 UTC

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 13:15:45 -0500, Quinn C

Post by Quinn C

Post by Jerry Friedman
On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 9:16:34 AM UTC-5, Peter J. Moylan
wrote:

In Britain, at least, there is or was the method of reducing every
given to a single letter--H. G. Wells, G. K. Chesterton, J. B. S.
Haldane, F. R. Leavis, H. M. Queen... wait a second....

I don't know how I missed C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien. And
J. K. Rowling.

A.A. Milne, C.S. Forester, T.S. Eliot, P.G. Wodehouse ...
Not unknown in the US: H.P. Lovecraft, J.D. Salinger.
Sometimes a method to hide the gender of the author, as with J.K.
Rowling, S.E. Hinton, and Helena G. Wells.

A. J. P. Taylor, A. E. Housman, A. J. Cronin.

Cross-thread alert, although he was not a Brit:
W. E. B. Du Bois.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2020-01-01 14:53:44 UTC

If middle name it probably was a name running in the family that
they wanted to conserve. He could have used A. For all we know it
might be Mack Adolf Damia here,

The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that was
because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

I've never had any problem omitting my middle initial. It has appeared
once or twice -- in years before about 1974 when I hadn't decided
whether to be A. J. or Athel, and once in a paper that was sent off for
publication by a coauthor who neglected to consult me.

--
athel

charles

2020-01-01 16:00:09 UTC

If middle name it probably was a name running in the family that
they wanted to conserve. He could have used A. For all we know it
might be Mack Adolf Damia here,

The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that was
because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

SWMBO confuses tat system since she has 2 middle initials.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Peter Young

2020-01-01 18:18:22 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I knew an Adolf once, admittedly as his middle name. He was older
than me, but young enough for it to have been a no-no he was named.
His parents came from Poland, but I don't think he was born there.

If middle name it probably was a name running in the family that they
wanted to conserve. He could have used A. For all we know it might be
Mack Adolf Damia here,

The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that
was because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

SWMBO confuses tat system since she has 2 middle initials.

And you got other people who confuse the system like my late wife. She
was born Margaret Anne Daffern but was always known as Anne.
Peter.

SWMBO has initials S J E and is called Elizabeth, except by the NHS who
insist on calling her Susan.

Just as the NHS, apart from our GPs, insisted on calling her Margaret.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

Peter Moylan

2020-01-02 00:37:04 UTC

Post by Peter Young

And you got other people who confuse the system like my late
wife. She was born Margaret Anne Daffern but was always known as
Anne.

SWMBO has initials S J E and is called Elizabeth, except by the NHS
who insist on calling her Susan.

Just as the NHS, apart from our GPs, insisted on calling her
Margaret.

A boyhood friend of mine was named Patrick Daniel, but was known to
everyone as Danny. Then he changed schools, and he couldn't convince his
new teachers to stop calling him Patrick. So he was Patrick at school
and Danny at home.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Cheryl

2020-01-02 04:46:35 UTC

Post by Peter Young

And you got other people who confuse the system like my late
wife. She was born Margaret Anne Daffern but was always known as
Anne.

SWMBO has initials S J E and is called Elizabeth, except by the NHS
who insist on calling her Susan.

Just as the NHS, apart from our GPs, insisted on calling her
Margaret.

My brother fought the battle of having people use his preferred name,
particularly when young. It seems like a lot of people think little boys
always use nicknames, particularly when their name is longer than one
syllable, but he was one of my relatives who stuck with the full version
of the first name he was give at birth.

When I was teaching, it was still common for a boy whose first name was
the same as that of his father to be nicknamed "Junior". Sometimes, the
nickname stuck throughout life. I also had a fellow teacher who insisted
that everyone should be addressed by their correct name, which sounds
good in theory but of course many people don't use their "correct" name.
It took me a while to realize that one of the students she called
"Patrick" was actually the same boy everyone else called "Junior". We
actually had more than one Patrick (it was an area with a lot of people
of Irish Catholic ancestry), but mostly they were called "Pat", except
by this teacher. "Pat" is easier to interpret; I honestly didn't know
that Junior was really a Patrick although I assumed he hadn't actually
been baptized "Junior".

I almost never use my middle initial. I think once someone insisted on
using FirstName MiddleInitial LastName on some computer system. Maybe
twice; I might once have had an account with a bank that listed me that
way.I think even when signing legal documents, I've been told to sign
with my usual signature, firstname lastname. The passport people and the
health care people don't want my middle initial, they want all my legal
names, including the middle one.

--
Cheryl

RH Draney

2020-01-02 05:03:34 UTC

When I was teaching, it was still common for a boy whose first name was
the same as that of his father to be nicknamed "Junior". Sometimes, the
nickname stuck throughout life. I also had a fellow teacher who insisted
that everyone should be addressed by their correct name, which sounds
good in theory but of course many people don't use their "correct" name.

I got the same first and middle names as my father, Ronald Hugh, which
upset my maternal grandfather enough that he declared at the time of my
birth "if you call him after someone else, I'm gonna call him
Zebedee"...so he did, and everyone else in the family did, and my school
up through sixth grade did...anyone I'm related to, or who knew me
before the age of ten, knows me as "Zeb"....r

Peter T. Daniels

2020-01-02 14:11:20 UTC

Post by RH Draney

I got the same first and middle names as my father, Ronald Hugh, which

Oh, _that's_ why yesterday you said your middle name was a letter but not
the one it starts with! Around Here, we say the H [hjuw].

Post by RH Draney
upset my maternal grandfather enough that he declared at the time of my
birth "if you call him after someone else, I'm gonna call him
Zebedee"...so he did, and everyone else in the family did, and my school
up through sixth grade did...anyone I'm related to, or who knew me
before the age of ten, knows me as "Zeb"....r

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2020-01-02 07:48:53 UTC

Post by Cheryl
[ … ]
I almost never use my middle initial. I think once someone insisted on
using FirstName MiddleInitial LastName on some computer system. Maybe
twice; I might once have had an account with a bank that listed me that
way.I think even when signing legal documents, I've been told to sign
with my usual signature, firstname lastname. The passport people and
the health care people don't want my middle initial, they want all my
legal names, including the middle one.

My wife has lots of given names and, like all Chilean people, two
family names. This caused great problems when she tried to renew her UK
passport three years ago. Her passports before 2006 showed all of them,
but in 2006 they replaced the final Antonia with A, something we didn't
pay much attention to at the time. In 2016, however, they asked why she
had changed A to Antonia on the form. They were unimpressed with the
argument that she had changed nothing but _they_ had changed it in
2006. They rejected all the evidence (UK passports from before 2006,
Chilean passport from 2015, birth certificate, marriage certificate
...) that her name had always been the same, as they said it was too
old. Can you prove that you haven't changed your name _during the past
12 months_? Of course not! How do you prove that you _haven't_ done
something when there is isn't the slightest evidence that you have?

--
athel

Cheryl

2020-01-02 11:02:39 UTC

Post by Cheryl
[ … ]
I almost never use my middle initial. I think once someone insisted on
using FirstName MiddleInitial LastName on some computer system. Maybe
twice; I might once have had an account with a bank that listed me
that way.I think even when signing legal documents, I've been told to
sign with my usual signature, firstname lastname. The passport people
and the health care people don't want my middle initial, they want all
my legal names, including the middle one.

My wife has lots of given names and, like all Chilean people, two family
names. This caused great problems when she tried to renew her UK
passport three years ago. Her passports before 2006 showed all of them,
but in 2006 they replaced the final Antonia with A, something we didn't
pay much attention to at the time. In 2016, however, they asked why she
had changed A to Antonia on the form. They were unimpressed with the
argument that she had changed nothing but _they_ had changed it in 2006.
They rejected all the evidence (UK passports from before 2006, Chilean
passport from 2015, birth certificate, marriage certificate ...) that
her name had always been the same, as they said it was too old. Can you
prove that you haven't changed your name _during the past 12 months_? Of
course not! How do you prove that you _haven't_ done something when
there is isn't the slightest evidence that you have?

Fitting names into databases designed for different naming systems
always seems to cause problems. I think there's a funny internet
document on the subject of assumptions you should not make if you are
setting up something with a name field.

Some people even manage to set up systems that don't allow for
apostrophes, much less any additional names than a bare minimum by
English standards.

Of course, bureaucrats are often picky and even unreasonable about such
matters. This isn't always the case; I got an aunt's legal name changed
(at her request) by the simple expedient of getting an official copy of
her baptismal certificate, bringing it to the provincial authorities and
completing a form. She was born at a time before the current system of
registering births with the provincial government didn't exist, and
someone in the government office assumed the original and almost
certainly hand-written form read "Mary Margaret" instead of "Mary
Marguerite" - the original Marguerite was apparently a good friend of my
grandmother's, but "Margaret" was by far the more common name locally.
Eventually, my aunt decided she wanted the error corrected.

--
Cheryl

Peter Moylan

2020-01-02 12:58:54 UTC

Post by Cheryl
Fitting names into databases designed for different naming systems
always seems to cause problems. I think there's a funny internet
document on the subject of assumptions you should not make if you are
setting up something with a name field.

I have a friend who has only one name. He once did a course on how to
design forms and databases to deal with different cultures.

Initially, he had trouble getting into the course, because the enrolment
form insisted on a two-part name.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Jerry Friedman

2020-01-02 17:04:06 UTC

I have a friend who has only one name. He once did a course on how to
design forms and databases to deal with different cultures.
Initially, he had trouble getting into the course, because the enrolment
form insisted on a two-part name.

Ha!

--
Jerry Friedman

Tony Cooper

2020-01-01 19:04:24 UTC

On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 17:36:00 +0000 (GMT), charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I knew an Adolf once, admittedly as his middle name. He was older
than me, but young enough for it to have been a no-no he was named.
His parents came from Poland, but I don't think he was born there.

If middle name it probably was a name running in the family that they
wanted to conserve. He could have used A. For all we know it might be
Mack Adolf Damia here,

The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that
was because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

SWMBO confuses tat system since she has 2 middle initials.

And you got other people who confuse the system like my late wife. She
was born Margaret Anne Daffern but was always known as Anne.
Peter.

SWMBO has initials S J E and is called Elizabeth, except by the NHS who
insist on calling her Susan.

My given first name is Anthony, but I haven't been called that by
anyone since my parents died...except the nurse who calls my name to
come into the exam room. It always takes me a minute or so to catch
on that I'm being called.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Cheryl

2020-01-01 23:08:29 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 01 Jan 2020 17:36:00 +0000 (GMT), charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I knew an Adolf once, admittedly as his middle name. He was older
than me, but young enough for it to have been a no-no he was named.
His parents came from Poland, but I don't think he was born there.

If middle name it probably was a name running in the family that they
wanted to conserve. He could have used A. For all we know it might be
Mack Adolf Damia here,

The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that
was because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

SWMBO confuses tat system since she has 2 middle initials.

And you got other people who confuse the system like my late wife. She
was born Margaret Anne Daffern but was always known as Anne.
Peter.

SWMBO has initials S J E and is called Elizabeth, except by the NHS who
insist on calling her Susan.

The same thing used to happen to my mother, who went by her middle name
all her life, and disliked and discouraged any use of her first name.
And then the medical clincs all started calling their patients in the
waiting room by first names! Middle name, fine; Mrs. Perkins, fine.
First name? There was an excellent chance she wouldn't even notice she'd
been called. I never understood why they couldn't have some system for
highlighting preferred name, but they didn't. And if you mentioned it to
the receptionist, she would either forget, or there would be a different
one on duty next time.

The software I used at work for many years didn't allow any indication
of a preferred name, but you could put in a preferred name. That doesn't
work with the medical system, which insists on your full legal name and
birthday as indicated on your provincial medicare card. I realize part
of the reasons they do this is to reduce the chances of operating on the
wrong Elizabeth/Beth/Betty/Bets/Liza Smith, but I still think they
should have a better system.

Fortunately, either my mother or aunt noticed when my late brother was
given a wristband belonging to an elderly woman. The staff didn't
notice. I can't see tht happening here.

--
Cheryl

Peter Moylan

2020-01-02 00:48:19 UTC

Post by Cheryl
Fortunately, either my mother or aunt noticed when my late brother
was given a wristband belonging to an elderly woman. The staff didn't
notice. I can't see tht happening here.

Whenever I've been in hospital there has been quite a ritual about
getting me to confirm my name and other details. Now that I think of it,
that happens even when I have blood taken for pathology tests. The nurse
can't pack the little tubes until I have read the labels on them and
confirmed that they have the right name and date of birth.

I know of one failure of the system, though. My wife's daughter was once
given medications belonging to another girl with the same first name. (I
gather that the hospital had introduced a "teenager-friendly" policy of
not using wristbands.) She insisted that they weren't her medications,
and the hospital staff insisted that she stop being a troublemaker and
take the medicine. She had a bad reaction to it, and had to be removed
from the hospital for the good of her health.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Cheryl

2020-01-01 23:14:31 UTC

If middle name it probably was a name running in the family that
they wanted to conserve. He could have used A. For all we know it
might be Mack Adolf Damia here,

The "middle initial" custom is very much an American convention.
Elsewhere, those of us who have a middle name might use it or not, but
we rarely reduce it down to a single letter.
I've used a middle initial in my professional publications, but that was
because I was publishing in American media, where the editors were
likely to be biased against people with no middle initial.

SWMBO confuses tat system since she has 2 middle initials.

And you got other people who confuse the system like my late wife. She
was
born Margaret Anne Daffern but was always known as Anne.

I had an aunt whose given names were Anne Joyce. She was always known by
her middle name, Joyce. I didn't even know it was her middle name until
well after she died, when I was doing some genealogical research.

My mother once said she wanted name me after her grandmother, but she
disliked the name "Lucy". It wasn't until after her grandmother died
that she discovered that her name was "Lucinda". And I could have sworn
that my more or less religious and traditional ancestors from a certain
period and place all gave their children full formal official names,
according to church custom, whatever they called them day-to-day. So of
course, Great-Aunt Bessy was baptized "Elizabeth". But she wasn't; when
I got around to checking the records, her parents had obviously found
someone to baptize her who didn't stick to tradition. Her baptismal name
was "Bessy". Sometimes I think that as many or more of my relatives used
names that weren't their official names as used their official names.

Not just my family, either. The husband of a friend of mine got a copy
of his birth certificate, which he needed to get a marriage license.
That was when he discovered that his father hadn't actually registered
him under the name he'd been using all his life!

--
Cheryl

RH Draney

2020-01-01 21:39:38 UTC

I have a middle name that sounds like a single letter, but not the
letter that is its initial....r

Katy Jennison

2020-01-02 08:17:03 UTC

Post by RH Draney
I have a middle name that sounds like a single letter, but not the
letter that is its initial....r
I got the same first and middle names as my father, Ronald Hugh

I deduce that your pronunciation of 'Hugh' is non-aspirated, and
presumably sounds like 'you'. Is that (h)usual?

--
Katy Jennison

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2020-01-02 08:54:46 UTC

Post by RH Draney
I have a middle name that sounds like a single letter, but not the
letter that is its initial....r
I got the same first and middle names as my father, Ronald Hugh

I deduce that your pronunciation of 'Hugh' is non-aspirated, and
presumably sounds like 'you'. Is that (h)usual?

I suppose that people who pronounce "huge" as [ju̟ːd͡ʒ] ("yuuuge")
(like the distinguished President of the USA) find it natural to
pronounce "Hugh" as [ju̟ː], but I pronounce it as you probably do.

--
athel

RH Draney

2020-01-02 09:09:09 UTC

Post by RH Draney
I have a middle name that sounds like a single letter, but not the
letter that is its initial....r
I got the same first and middle names as my father, Ronald Hugh

I deduce that your pronunciation of 'Hugh' is non-aspirated, and
presumably sounds like 'you'. Is that (h)usual?

I suppose that people who pronounce "huge" as [ju̟ːd͡ʒ] ("yuuuge") (like
the distinguished President of the USA) find it natural to pronounce
"Hugh" as [ju̟ː], but I pronounce it as you probably do.

On the rare occasions when I pronounce it at all, I do aspirate it, but
I recognize that others do not:

....r

Dingbat

2020-01-01 16:18:21 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

I usually see it with lower case, but I seem to see it used less
and less as the years go by.

By now most people have forgotten who Quisling was (if they ever knew).

Perhaps there are fewer babies named "Vidkun" than there were.

Certainly true for the Netherlands,
where 'Anton', [1] and of course also 'Adolf'

Adolf Weinman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Alexander_Weinman

Should Adolf Weinman's descendants shun his first name on the basis
that Hitler had the same first name? Josef remains common despite
having been Stalin's first name.

Ken Blake

2020-01-01 16:30:42 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

I usually see it with lower case, but I seem to see it used less
and less as the years go by.

By now most people have forgotten who Quisling was (if they ever knew).

Perhaps there are fewer babies named "Vidkun" than there were.

Certainly true for the Netherlands,
where 'Anton', [1] and of course also 'Adolf'

I once worked with an Adolf. His last name wasn't Hitler, but it was
very close--H**ler.

He was born in Germany around 1936-38, so he almost certainly was named
after Hitler. I can't remember how I found out his first name, since he
never used it. He was "Al" to everybody.

--
Ken

Dingbat

2019-12-31 13:19:21 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
By now most people have forgotten who
Quisling was (if they ever knew).

In 1995, I was one of a tour group.
I heard a Norwegian lady in the group
say Norway is civilized to not have a
death penalty. "What about Quisling?"
I asked. "He was a war criminal," she
pointed out. "Is it civilized to
execute a war criminal?" I asked.
She refused to answer.

--

Peter Moylan

2019-12-31 14:19:03 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
By now most people have forgotten who Quisling was (if they ever knew).

In 1995, I was one of a tour group. I heard a Norwegian lady in the
group say Norway is civilized to not have a death penalty. "What
about Quisling?" I asked. "He was a war criminal," she pointed out.
"Is it civilized to execute a war criminal?" I asked. She refused to
answer.

Our moral standards have changed over time.

I was in the crowd protesting outside the prison where Australia's last
hanging occurred. I was against capital punishment then. Lately, though,
we have had too many attacks against emergency services personnel, which
leads me to think that paramedics should be authorised to administer
lethal injections. And I'm starting to think that we should introduce
capital punishment for spammers and scammers.

And possibly even climate-change-denying Prime Ministers.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Quinn C

2019-12-31 18:36:50 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
By now most people have forgotten who
Quisling was (if they ever knew).

Norway fully abolished the death penalty in 1979, which is a bit late
by European standards. But the last peacetime execution was over a
hundred years earlier, so its track record isn't bad at all.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Norway>

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-30 11:10:46 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Thanks.

Post by Dingbat
Is this an acceptable use/ meaning of deracine outside India?
The dictionary says it means "displaced person"

From the look of it it shouldn't be used in India either.
It looks like nan'ny propaganda of the 'we are the true Indians' kind.
If you don't agree with us you don't belong here.

Sure, but I wasn't pushing the propaganda; I just wanted to know whether
the propagandist used the word with a standard meaning.

Post by Dingbat
'Déraciné' is fine for people who say it about themselves.

It shouldn't be used to disqualify others,

How about terms used only to pejoratively qualify others, such as
Self-hating or asshole? Should the language be stripped of such terms?

You should strip abusive authors from your input instead,
especially so if they foam from the mouth, like this one.
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

Yes, by English rules, and idem in other European languages.
The plural is a bit strange too.
Like writing ... the Hitlers who nowadays rule India ...'

Possible, I guess, but good reason
for not taking the author too seriously,

Jan

Peter Moylan

2019-12-30 12:26:56 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

Yes, by English rules, and idem in other European languages. The
plural is a bit strange too. Like writing ... the Hitlers who
nowadays rule India ...'
Possible, I guess, but good reason for not taking the author too
seriously,

Now, that raises an interesting point. The OneLook dictionaries that
I've consulted include "quisling" with the meaning "A traitor who
collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country." They do
explain where the word comes from, as an etymological note, but
otherwise the word has become detached from the name, which justifies
the lower case.

In contrast, a dictionary search for "hitler" returns only references to
Adolf.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Quinn C

2019-12-30 19:37:01 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
BTW, is 'the quislings' also standard Indian?

Yes. If used by Anglos, would it have a loer or upper case Q?

Yes, by English rules, and idem in other European languages. The
plural is a bit strange too. Like writing ... the Hitlers who
nowadays rule India ...'
Possible, I guess, but good reason for not taking the author too
seriously,

Now, that raises an interesting point. The OneLook dictionaries that
I've consulted include "quisling" with the meaning "A traitor who
collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country." They do
explain where the word comes from, as an etymological note, but
otherwise the word has become detached from the name, which justifies
the lower case.
In contrast, a dictionary search for "hitler" returns only references to
Adolf.

But that doesn't reflect actual usage. I remember being surprised at a
daughter calling her mother a Hitler for setting too strict rules - in
an Indian movie!

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

Quinn C

2019-12-31 20:27:04 UTC

Post by Quinn C
I remember being surprised at a
daughter calling her mother a Hitler
for setting too strict rules - in
an Indian movie!

In India, a Hitler is a martinet.
There was a TV show named Hitler Didi,
best translated as Strict Aunt.

Thanks. Maybe a more common non-Indian near-equivalent would be just
"nazi", as in "soup nazi".

There was a men's clothing store named
Hitler after a strict grandfather of
one of its owners.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/indias-hitler-stores-spark-outrage/2012/09/06/66f81394-f827-11e1-8253-3f495ae70650_blog.html

I seem to remember the name coming from genuine admiration of the
historic Hitler, as "a great leader". But maybe that was another case,
longer ago. Could be the "Hitler's Cross" mentioned in the article.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

Dingbat

2020-01-01 04:46:31 UTC

Post by Quinn C
I seem to remember the name coming
from genuine admiration of the
historic Hitler, as "a great leader".
But maybe that was another case,
longer ago. Could be the "Hitler's
Cross" mentioned in the article.

That is there too, but the "Hitler"
they have in mind tends to be a
figure like Bismarck, not one like
the historic Hitler.

Mack A. Damia

2020-01-01 17:15:21 UTC

Post by Quinn C
I remember being surprised at a
daughter calling her mother a Hitler
for setting too strict rules - in
an Indian movie!

In India, a Hitler is a martinet.

With the meaning of 'strict disciplinarian', I guess.
In the original French the 'martinet' is a whip,
analogous to the cat of nine tails.
The disciplinarian meaning is supposed to be derived
from a general Jean Martinet under Louis XIV.
Perhaps a coincidence.
Hitler has been a soldier, a 'gefreiter', a politician,
and finally a dictator, but he never actually commanded
or disciplined troops.

I remember the term, "Little Hitler" used when I was a child to refer
to somebody who was overbearing and bossy.

Urban Dictionary says:

"A little hitler is a self-important tosspot who thinks he's in
charge. Someone who makes up arbitrary and/or self-serving rules and
has a tantrum if they aren't obeyed. They tend to have a
park-keeper/traffic-warden mentality; rules are Law and rules come
first. They can't handle people who threaten their authority."

Mack A. Damia

2020-01-01 18:13:58 UTC

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 10:00:13 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman

...

Post by Mack A. Damia
I remember the term, "Little Hitler" used when I was a child to refer
to somebody who was overbearing and bossy.
"A little hitler is a self-important tosspot who thinks he's in
charge. Someone who makes up arbitrary and/or self-serving rules and
has a tantrum if they aren't obeyed. They tend to have a
park-keeper/traffic-warden mentality; rules are Law and rules come
first. They can't handle people who threaten their authority."

A drunk? Or has "tosspot" come to be associated with "tosser" by
some British people?

Definitions.net says:

tosspot (Noun)

"A fool, prat; an idiot."

"....somebody who is obnoxious, irritating or ridiculous....more
recently, 'tosspot' has become synonymous with idiot."

https://www.definitions.net/definition/tosspot

Collins:

2. British derogatory, slang
a foolish or contemptible person

musika

2020-01-01 19:12:19 UTC

...

A drunk? Or has "tosspot" come to be associated with "tosser" by
some British people?

Unfortunately, yes.

--
Ray
UK

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-29 14:57:36 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ðèřáçïñê looks pretty odd.

From the look of it it shouldn't be used in India either.
It looks like masty propaganda of the 'we are the true Indians' kind.
If you don't agree with us you don't belong here.
'Déraciné' is fine for people who say it about themselves.
It shouldn't be used to disqualify others,

Yes. I feel pretty ðèřáçïñê myself at times.

--
athel

Peter Moylan

2019-12-30 00:42:37 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ðèřáçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Dingbat

2019-12-30 01:54:36 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ðèřáçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!

(That's supposed to be a pun.)

Quinn C

2019-12-30 02:27:48 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ðèřáçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!
(That's supposed to be a pun.)

That's not gonna nguyen you many points

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

CDB

2019-12-30 15:21:19 UTC

Post by Quinn C

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ðèřáçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!
(That's supposed to be a pun.)

That's not gonna nguyen you many points

Thieu, dat. Ngo lai.

b***@shaw.ca

2019-12-30 05:20:37 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ðèřáçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!
(That's supposed to be a pun.)

If I made a pun like that they would banh mi from the group.

bill

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-30 11:10:46 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ?è?áçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!
(That's supposed to be a pun.)

That's the battiest pun I ever saw,

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-30 11:31:07 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ?è?áçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!
(That's supposed to be a pun.)

That's the battiest pun I ever saw,

It's not worthwhile making puns at all if that's the best one can do.

--
athel

J. J. Lodder

2019-12-31 10:52:15 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ?è?áçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!
(That's supposed to be a pun.)

That's the battiest pun I ever saw,

It's not worthwhile making puns at all if that's the best one can do.

Dang! I thought I had a nice stab under water,
and you don't see it,

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-12-31 13:51:24 UTC

All the accents you can put on it belong there.

Hmm. ?è?áçïñê looks pretty odd.

That's probably because you don't read much Vietnamese.

Phoh!
(That's supposed to be a pun.)

That's the battiest pun I ever saw,

It's not worthwhile making puns at all if that's the best one can do.

Dang! I thought I had a nice stab under water,
and you don't see it,

I wasn't think of yours but of Dingbat's.

--
athel

Dingbat

2020-01-02 11:50:36 UTC