Discussion:
Hither and hence
(too old to reply)
Harrison Hill
2012-09-15 20:04:14 UTC
Permalink
"Who brought me hither will bring me hence"

Like much of Milton, very beautiful but difficult to pin down. "Take
me henceforth..."?
Whiskers
2012-09-15 20:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
"Who brought me hither will bring me hence"
Like much of Milton, very beautiful but difficult to pin down. "Take
me henceforth..."?
Essentially,

hither = to this place
hence = from this place

So, "whoever carried me here will carry me away", or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".

(Paradise Regained, book 1). Milton's version of the 40 days in the
wilderness during which the Devil tempted Jesus.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Harrison Hill
2012-09-15 20:44:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whiskers
Post by Harrison Hill
"Who brought me hither will bring me hence"
Like much of Milton, very beautiful but difficult to pin down. "Take
me henceforth..."?
Essentially,
hither = to this place
hence = from this place
So, "whoever carried me here will carry me away", or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".
(Paradise Regained, book 1).  Milton's version of the 40 days in the
wilderness during which the Devil tempted Jesus.
Well obviously, tsk tsk! More Milton, and let's fill this thread up
with Milton:

"The invention all admired, and each how he
To be the inventor missed; so easy it seemed,
Once found, which yet unfound most would have thought
Impossible! "
Whiskers
2012-09-16 10:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Whiskers
Post by Harrison Hill
"Who brought me hither will bring me hence"
Like much of Milton, very beautiful but difficult to pin down. "Take
me henceforth..."?
Essentially,
hither = to this place
hence = from this place
So, "whoever carried me here will carry me away", or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".
(Paradise Regained, book 1).  Milton's version of the 40 days in the
wilderness during which the Devil tempted Jesus.
Well obviously, tsk tsk!
If you mean that 'it's obviously Paradise Regained', then no, it isn't
obvious at all; it's something you know, or don't. The context of a phrase
is an essential part of working out its meaning.
Post by Harrison Hill
More Milton, and let's fill this thread up
"The invention all admired, and each how he
To be the inventor missed; so easy it seemed,
Once found, which yet unfound most would have thought
Impossible! "
An eternal truth.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Harrison Hill
2012-09-16 20:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whiskers
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Whiskers
Post by Harrison Hill
"Who brought me hither will bring me hence"
Like much of Milton, very beautiful but difficult to pin down. "Take
me henceforth..."?
Essentially,
hither = to this place
hence = from this place
So, "whoever carried me here will carry me away", or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".
(Paradise Regained, book 1).  Milton's version of the 40 days in the
wilderness during which the Devil tempted Jesus.
Well obviously, tsk tsk!
If you mean that 'it's obviously Paradise Regained', then no, it isn't
obvious at all; it's something you know, or don't.  The context of a phrase
is an essential part of working out its meaning.
Sorry , you have interpreted it perfectly (Eric Walker permitting) and
I didn't read your reply properly:

"whoever carried me here will carry me away" or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".

The person doing the "bringing" need not be static.
Whiskers
2012-09-16 20:40:00 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Whiskers
Post by Harrison Hill
Well obviously, tsk tsk!
If you mean that 'it's obviously Paradise Regained', then no, it isn't
obvious at all; it's something you know, or don't.  The context of a phrase
is an essential part of working out its meaning.
Sorry , you have interpreted it perfectly (Eric Walker permitting) and
[...]

<chuckle> perhaps I was too laconic this time ...
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Bannister
2012-09-17 04:38:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
Sorry , you have interpreted it perfectly (Eric Walker permitting) and
"whoever carried me here will carry me away" or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".
The person doing the "bringing" need not be static.
I'm pretty sure it has been remarked here before that the use of "bring"
where most would use "take" is mainly a Northern Irish thing these days.
--
Robert Bannister
Mike L
2012-09-17 19:55:53 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:38:24 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Harrison Hill
Sorry , you have interpreted it perfectly (Eric Walker permitting) and
"whoever carried me here will carry me away" or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".
The person doing the "bringing" need not be static.
I'm pretty sure it has been remarked here before that the use of "bring"
where most would use "take" is mainly a Northern Irish thing these days.
All-Ireland, I'd have thought: "to bring the dog for a walk" came
easily to our much-missed Brian Goggin, for example.
--
Mike.
Nick Spalding
2012-09-17 20:23:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike L
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:38:24 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Harrison Hill
Sorry , you have interpreted it perfectly (Eric Walker permitting) and
"whoever carried me here will carry me away" or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".
The person doing the "bringing" need not be static.
I'm pretty sure it has been remarked here before that the use of "bring"
where most would use "take" is mainly a Northern Irish thing these days.
All-Ireland, I'd have thought: "to bring the dog for a walk" came
easily to our much-missed Brian Goggin, for example.
Yes, I hear that in the Dublin area. I didn't know Brian Goggin was a
one-time poster here. I know him from a waterways group.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Mike L
2012-09-17 21:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Spalding
Post by Mike L
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:38:24 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Harrison Hill
Sorry , you have interpreted it perfectly (Eric Walker permitting) and
"whoever carried me here will carry me away" or "whoever caused me to
come to this place, will also cause me to leave it".
The person doing the "bringing" need not be static.
I'm pretty sure it has been remarked here before that the use of "bring"
where most would use "take" is mainly a Northern Irish thing these days.
All-Ireland, I'd have thought: "to bring the dog for a walk" came
easily to our much-missed Brian Goggin, for example.
Yes, I hear that in the Dublin area. I didn't know Brian Goggin was a
one-time poster here. I know him from a waterways group.
Ah, yes: he mentioned his watery interests. One of the best posters
ever.
--
Mike.
avs234
2012-09-17 19:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
"The invention all admired, and each how he
To be the inventor missed; so easy it seemed,
Once found, which yet unfound most would have thought
Impossible! "
Very, very interesting! Can you comment on this phrase?
I believe "each how" = "each time," am I wrong? Also, I don't feel the rhyme if any. Where it was taken from?
Whiskers
2012-09-17 20:42:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
"The invention all admired, and each how he
To be the inventor missed; so easy it seemed,
Once found, which yet unfound most would have thought
Impossible! "
Very, very interesting! Can you comment on this phrase? I believe "each
how" = "each time," am I wrong?
Wrong.

Translation:

"The invention all admired," = everyone admired the originality

"... and each how he to be the inventor missed; ..." = everyone was
surprised not to have thought of it themselves

"... so easy it seemed, once found, ..." = because it was now so obvious

"... which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!" = although most
people would have thought it impossible before it was done.
Also, I don't feel the rhyme if any.
No rhyme; blank verse.
Where it was taken from?
Milton's 'Paradise Lost', book 6
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Mike L
2012-09-17 21:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whiskers
Post by Harrison Hill
"The invention all admired, and each how he
To be the inventor missed; so easy it seemed,
Once found, which yet unfound most would have thought
Impossible! "
Very, very interesting! Can you comment on this phrase? I believe "each
how" = "each time," am I wrong?
Wrong.
"The invention all admired," = everyone admired the originality
"... and each how he to be the inventor missed; ..." = everyone was
surprised not to have thought of it themselves
That clause too is an object of "admired", so perhaps we should
translate the verb "marvelled" or "wondered at" to fit it neatly to
both objects?
Post by Whiskers
"... so easy it seemed, once found, ..." = because it was now so obvious
"... which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!" = although most
people would have thought it impossible before it was done.
Also, I don't feel the rhyme if any.
No rhyme; blank verse.
Where it was taken from?
Milton's 'Paradise Lost', book 6
BBC Radio only a few years ago serialised readings from PL: what I
heard was good. I wouldn't...er...admire if there were a CD available.
--
Mike.
Whiskers
2012-09-18 14:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike L
Post by Whiskers
Post by Harrison Hill
"The invention all admired, and each how he
To be the inventor missed; so easy it seemed,
Once found, which yet unfound most would have thought
Impossible! "
Very, very interesting! Can you comment on this phrase? I believe "each
how" = "each time," am I wrong?
Wrong.
"The invention all admired," = everyone admired the originality
"... and each how he to be the inventor missed; ..." = everyone was
surprised not to have thought of it themselves
That clause too is an object of "admired", so perhaps we should
translate the verb "marvelled" or "wondered at" to fit it neatly to
both objects?
Fluidity of interpretation is part of the magic of poetry.
Post by Mike L
Post by Whiskers
"... so easy it seemed, once found, ..." = because it was now so obvious
"... which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!" = although most
people would have thought it impossible before it was done.
Also, I don't feel the rhyme if any.
No rhyme; blank verse.
Where it was taken from?
Milton's 'Paradise Lost', book 6
BBC Radio only a few years ago serialised readings from PL: what I
heard was good. I wouldn't...er...admire if there were a CD available.
It was beautifully done; still rings in my memory. Twelve episodes, Radio
3, Christmas and New Year 2008/9
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00gdhlh/episodes/guide>.

I've Ixquicked a bit (a superior sort of Googling) and found a set of 9
CDs read by Anton Lesser (who did the BBC broadcasts - I don't know if the
CDs are of the same performance)
<http://www.naxosaudiobooks.com/935012.htm>. There are links on that page
to some other Milton offerings that will probably interest some here (but
the 'podcast' appears to have vanished).
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Eric Walker
2012-09-16 00:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harrison Hill
"Who brought me hither will bring me hence"
Like much of Milton, very beautiful but difficult to pin down. "Take me
henceforth..."?
HERE THERE WHERE
TO hither thither whither
FROM hence thence whence

All both nice and useful.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
John Varela
2012-09-16 22:33:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Walker
Post by Harrison Hill
"Who brought me hither will bring me hence"
Like much of Milton, very beautiful but difficult to pin down. "Take me
henceforth..."?
HERE THERE WHERE
TO hither thither whither
FROM hence thence whence
FROM NOW ON: henceforth
--
John Varela

Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and
murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure
wind. -- George Orwell
avs234
2012-09-18 06:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Heavens. Dear Whiskers and Mike, thank you _so_ much.
Whiskers
2012-09-18 14:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by avs234
Heavens. Dear Whiskers and Mike, thank you _so_ much.
Milton rewards perseverence. Enjoy!

Project Gutenberg has free ebooks which can be read online or downloaded.
<http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/17>
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Mike L
2012-09-18 19:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by avs234
Heavens. Dear Whiskers and Mike, thank you _so_ much.
Don't mention it. This kind of thing is an unmixed pleasure.
--
Mike.
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