Discussion:
Then and now
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Hibou
2024-12-05 14:37:28 UTC
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Permalink
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.

The only technical magazine I regularly peruse these days is 'PC Pro',
where it's quite a different story. But then I'm old now, and many
modern memes annoy me.

(Such browsing is absorbing, if you're that way inclined - a series on
building a TV set; items about making twisted joints reliable (the trick
is said to be to knot them - a reef knot or a sheet bend), adding
suppression to car-ignition systems, communal aerial systems in new
flats for workers in Germany, advice on HT batteries (British made, 5s a
throw), and so on. It's like having a day trip to the past.)
LionelEdwards
2024-12-05 23:17:03 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
The only technical magazine I regularly peruse these days is 'PC Pro',
where it's quite a different story. But then I'm old now, and many
modern memes annoy me.
(Such browsing is absorbing, if you're that way inclined - a series on
building a TV set; items about making twisted joints reliable (the trick
is said to be to knot them - a reef knot or a sheet bend), adding
suppression to car-ignition systems, communal aerial systems in new
flats for workers in Germany, advice on HT batteries (British made, 5s a
throw), and so on. It's like having a day trip to the past.)
Frederick Forsyth was on the TV just now explaining that
without permanent accommodation he was forced to "sofa surf"
in a friend's flat. When his friend left for work he got up
and typed out "The Day of the Jackal" in 34 days.
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-06 10:48:39 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,

Jan
Janet
2024-12-06 14:19:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Jan
Woosh.

Janet
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-06 19:27:24 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>

Jan
Steve Hayes
2024-12-07 03:54:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
400. That’s an error.

Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That’s all we
know.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Snidely
2024-12-07 04:21:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
400. That’s an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That’s all we
know.
No error when I try it. Did you properly handle the wrap? My
newsreader did, thanks to the wrap with '<' and '>'.

I see a small disk (plate?) with lettering and a simple drawing.

/dps
--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
Tony Cooper
2024-12-07 05:07:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
400. That’s an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That’s all we
know.
No error when I try it. Did you properly handle the wrap? My
newsreader did, thanks to the wrap with '<' and '>'.
I see a small disk (plate?) with lettering and a simple drawing.
It's a token used in the online "social deduction" game Blood on the
Clocktower.

https://bloodontheclocktower.com/
Steve Hayes
2024-12-08 02:58:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 07 Dec 2024 00:07:35 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Snidely
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
400. That’s an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That’s all we
know.
No error when I try it. Did you properly handle the wrap? My
newsreader did, thanks to the wrap with '<' and '>'.
I see a small disk (plate?) with lettering and a simple drawing.
It's a token used in the online "social deduction" game Blood on the
Clocktower.
https://bloodontheclocktower.com/
That's a "rude mechanical"?

I admit to being thoroughly whooshed.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Peter Moylan
2024-12-07 04:57:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from
mid-1939, and am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit
verbose on occasion, perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good
and the vocabulary well chosen, with just an occasional error
('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude mechanicals',
mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the main
articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there, in those long
past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
400. That’s an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That’s all we
know.
Probably one of those so-common errors caused by line wrap. But you
didn't miss much. Apparently Jan was referring to a character in an
on-line game.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-07 11:03:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from
mid-1939, and am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit
verbose on occasion, perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good
and the vocabulary well chosen, with just an occasional error
('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude mechanicals',
mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the main
articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there, in those long
past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_charact
er_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
Post by Peter Moylan
400. That's an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That's all we
know.
Probably one of those so-common errors caused by line wrap. But you
didn't miss much. Apparently Jan was referring to a character in an
on-line game.
Certainly. Woosh and whoosh-woosh,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-07 20:17:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from
mid-1939, and am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit
verbose on occasion, perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good
and the vocabulary well chosen, with just an occasional error
('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude mechanicals',
mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the main
articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there, in those long
past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_charact
er_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
Post by Peter Moylan
400. That's an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That's all we
know.
Probably one of those so-common errors caused by line wrap. But you
didn't miss much. Apparently Jan was referring to a character in an
on-line game.
Certainly. Woosh and whoosh-woosh,
Odd names for characters, but that's gaming for you.
--
Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-07 21:35:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from
mid-1939, and am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit
verbose on occasion, perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good
and the vocabulary well chosen, with just an occasional error
('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude mechanicals',
mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the main
articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there, in those long
past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_chara
ct
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
er_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
Post by Peter Moylan
400. That's an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That's all we
know.
Probably one of those so-common errors caused by line wrap. But you
didn't miss much. Apparently Jan was referring to a character in an
on-line game.
Certainly. Woosh and whoosh-woosh,
Odd names for characters, but that's gaming for you.
Those formidable types from Wireless World never knew about
wat they were going to be called.
Formidable indeed, one of them wrote a classic treatise on:
'The Cosh, and how to use it'
Not someone to pick a quarrel with, I guess,

Jan
Steve Hayes
2024-12-08 02:57:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from
mid-1939, and am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit
verbose on occasion, perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good
and the vocabulary well chosen, with just an occasional error
('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude mechanicals',
mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the main
articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there, in those long
past days,
Jan
Woosh.
Janet
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_charact
er_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
Post by Peter Moylan
400. That's an error.
Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request. That's all we
know.
Probably one of those so-common errors caused by line wrap. But you
didn't miss much. Apparently Jan was referring to a character in an
on-line game.
Certainly. Woosh and whoosh-woosh,
Jan
And whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Hibou
2024-12-07 07:06:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Woosh.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
'Rude mechanicals' is a phrase from 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'. It is
occasionally used by arts types to refer contemptuously to science types.

Our physics teacher had a tale from when he was at school. The science
pupils were routinely criticised for their lack of literary knowledge,
so they divided the authors up between them and each read a few.
Thenceforth, their combined knowledge easily surpassed that of the arts
people.

Which just goes to show... something. The power of reason in the service
of "Nemo me impune lacessit"?
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-07 20:20:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hibou
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there,
in those long past days,
Woosh.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
'Rude mechanicals' is a phrase from 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'. It is
occasionally used by arts types to refer contemptuously to science types.
Our physics teacher had a tale from when he was at school. The science
pupils were routinely criticised for their lack of literary knowledge,
so they divided the authors up between them and each read a few.
Thenceforth, their combined knowledge easily surpassed that of the arts
people.
Which just goes to show... something. The power of reason in the service
of "Nemo me impune lacessit"?
A great many years ago, I mentioned the battle of Stamford Bridge in a
conversation. "How do you know that? You're an engineer." "I'm an educated
engineer."
That was a Fulham - Millwall match, if I recall correctly?
--
Sam Plusnet
charles
2024-12-07 20:45:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Hibou
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Janet
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939,
and am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on
occasion, perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good and the
vocabulary well chosen, with just an occasional error ('effect'
for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude mechanicals', mind you, and
just as true of readers' letters as of the main articles.
'Rude mechanicals'? There were boffins out there, in those long
past days,
Woosh.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1fq9jgg/new_character_the_boffin/?rdt=50418>
'Rude mechanicals' is a phrase from 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'. It is
occasionally used by arts types to refer contemptuously to science types.
Our physics teacher had a tale from when he was at school. The science
pupils were routinely criticised for their lack of literary knowledge,
so they divided the authors up between them and each read a few.
Thenceforth, their combined knowledge easily surpassed that of the
arts people.
Which just goes to show... something. The power of reason in the
service of "Nemo me impune lacessit"?
A great many years ago, I mentioned the battle of Stamford Bridge in a
conversation. "How do you know that? You're an engineer." "I'm an
educated engineer."
That was a Fulham - Millwall match, if I recall correctly?
I was thinking of a battle about 900 years earlier
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter Moylan
2024-12-07 04:56:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and
am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion,
perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well
chosen, with just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.).
This from 'rude mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers'
letters as of the main articles.
The Australian equivalent was called Wireless Weekly. In 1939 it was
rebranded as the monthly Radio and Hobbies. In 1955 it became Radio, TV,
and Hobbies. Then Electronics Australia in 1965.

In 2001 it jumped the shark by changing the emphasis from technical
content to consumer electronics. That killed it off.

My father had a collection, in a hard-to-reach cupboard, of every issue
of Radio and Hobbies from the 1940s. In my childhood I read the whole
lot, from cover to cover. That may have influenced me to become an
electrical engineer. Fascinating stuff.

I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists. The writers were what
we now call technical writers, an occupation that requires a mixture of
technical know-how and a high level of writing skill. It's often said
that we rude mechanicals are deficient in communication ability, but
that's an over-generalisation that's not supported by the evidence.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
occam
2024-12-07 09:00:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and
am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion,
perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well
chosen, with just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.).
This from 'rude mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers'
letters as of the main articles.
The Australian equivalent was called Wireless Weekly. In 1939 it was
rebranded as the monthly Radio and Hobbies. In 1955 it became Radio, TV,
and Hobbies. Then Electronics Australia in 1965.
<snip>
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists.
One of TWW's claim to fame was Arthur C. Clarke's 1945 article on
geostationary satellites.

<https://lakdiva.org.lk/clarke/1945ww/>
Post by Peter Moylan
The writers were what
we now call technical writers, an occupation that requires a mixture of
technical know-how and a high level of writing skill. It's often said
that we rude mechanicals are deficient in communication ability, but
that's an over-generalisation that's not supported by the evidence.
Amen to that.
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-12 21:18:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and
am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion,
perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well
chosen, with just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.).
This from 'rude mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers'
letters as of the main articles.
The Australian equivalent was called Wireless Weekly. In 1939 it was
rebranded as the monthly Radio and Hobbies. In 1955 it became Radio, TV,
and Hobbies. Then Electronics Australia in 1965.
<snip>
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists.
One of TWW's claim to fame was Arthur C. Clarke's 1945 article on
geostationary satellites.
<https://lakdiva.org.lk/clarke/1945ww/>
Yes, and not just the geostationary satellite,
also the manned space station. (Man-manned of course)
Can you guess what those mans manning it up there
were supposed to be doing there?

Jan
charles
2024-12-12 21:45:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and
am struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion,
perhaps, but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well
chosen, with just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.).
This from 'rude mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers'
letters as of the main articles.
The Australian equivalent was called Wireless Weekly. In 1939 it was
rebranded as the monthly Radio and Hobbies. In 1955 it became Radio,
TV, and Hobbies. Then Electronics Australia in 1965.
<snip>
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at
a mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists.
One of TWW's claim to fame was Arthur C. Clarke's 1945 article on
geostationary satellites.
<https://lakdiva.org.lk/clarke/1945ww/>
Yes, and not just the geostationary satellite, also the manned space
station. (Man-manned of course) Can you guess what those mans manning it
up there were supposed to be doing there?
making sure it kept working
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Mark Brader
2024-12-13 04:43:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Yes, and not just the geostationary satellite, also the manned space
station. (Man-manned of course) Can you guess what those mans manning it
up there were supposed to be doing there?
making sure it kept working
ObFiction (from 1942):
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/68005/pg68005-images.html
--
Mark Brader | "The UK Civil Service loves change... Change has to be
Toronto | managed, and management is work, and so it is necessary
***@vex.net | to hire people to do that work..." --Richard Heathfield
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-13 12:34:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by charles
Yes, and not just the geostationary satellite, also the manned space
station. (Man-manned of course) Can you guess what those mans manning it
up there were supposed to be doing there?
making sure it kept working
Yes, and in particular: to change the radio tubes/valves,
which burned out in some thousands of hours.
So they were really essential for the project.

Arthur Clake forgot for convenience
that it would have been a very unhealthy job,
with the radiation exposure up there.
(he could, or should have known)
Post by Mark Brader
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/68005/pg68005-images.html
In that far far future they still picked up phones,
(to reach the operator!)
which illustrates again how little vision SF authors tend to have,

Jan
occam
2024-12-13 12:54:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by charles
Yes, and not just the geostationary satellite, also the manned space
station. (Man-manned of course) Can you guess what those mans manning it
up there were supposed to be doing there?
making sure it kept working
Yes, and in particular: to change the radio tubes/valves,
which burned out in some thousands of hours.
So they were really essential for the project.
Arthur Clake forgot for convenience
that it would have been a very unhealthy job,
with the radiation exposure up there.
(he could, or should have known)
Not only radiation. Also loss of bone strength, muscle mass, and lack of
human companionship. It's a good thing Clarke was such an introvert, he
probably did not think about the latter.
Snidely
2024-12-13 19:05:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by charles
Yes, and not just the geostationary satellite, also the manned space
station. (Man-manned of course) Can you guess what those mans manning it
up there were supposed to be doing there?
making sure it kept working
Yes, and in particular: to change the radio tubes/valves,
which burned out in some thousands of hours.
So they were really essential for the project.
Arthur Clake forgot for convenience
that it would have been a very unhealthy job,
with the radiation exposure up there.
(he could, or should have known)
In 1945? Sure, Birkland et al wrote their speculation about trapped
particles in 1895, but the belts were discovered in 1958 with Sputnik
and Explorer.
Post by occam
Not only radiation. Also loss of bone strength, muscle mass, and lack of
human companionship. It's a good thing Clarke was such an introvert, he
probably did not think about the latter.
Wouldn't it have been a team aboard the station? Covering shifts,
after all. Had *anyone* made a connection between bone loss, etc from
bed rest and floating in space? And many SF stations expected spin
gravity. They also expected to be big wheels.

/dps
--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
Mark Brader
2024-12-13 23:34:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Mark Brader
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/68005/pg68005-images.html
In that far far future they still picked up phones,
(to reach the operator!)
Do you expect Korvus the Magnificent to *dial his own phone*?
Obviously that's a job for the lower classes.
Post by J. J. Lodder
which illustrates again how little vision SF authors tend to have,
Pffft.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "People say I'm a skeptic --
***@vex.net but I find that hard to believe."

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Silvano
2024-12-07 10:32:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists. The writers were what
we now call technical writers, an occupation that requires a mixture of
technical know-how and a high level of writing skill. It's often said
that we rude mechanicals are deficient in communication ability, but
that's an over-generalisation that's not supported by the evidence.
My professional experience as a translator, among other things, of
operating instructions tells me that the quality of the originals
improves by a factor of x (I'll leave it to you* to define x) when a
technical writer modifies the instructions written by an engineer or the
holder of a patent.

*"You" means here Peter and every other AUE reader. Was it obvious to
everyone without my explanation? How could I have written that sentence
if I had meant:
1) only Peter,
2) all AUE readers except Peter?
Hibou
2024-12-07 10:55:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists. The writers were what
we now call technical writers, an occupation that requires a mixture of
technical know-how and a high level of writing skill. It's often said
that we rude mechanicals are deficient in communication ability, but
that's an over-generalisation that's not supported by the evidence.
My professional experience as a translator, among other things, of
operating instructions tells me that the quality of the originals
improves by a factor of x (I'll leave it to you* to define x) when a
technical writer modifies the instructions written by an engineer or the
holder of a patent.
*"You" means here Peter and every other AUE reader. Was it obvious to
everyone without my explanation? How could I have written that sentence
1) only Peter,
2) all AUE readers except Peter?
I'll leave it to you, Peter, to...

I'll leave it to those reading this to...
I'll leave it to aue-ers to...
Hibou
2024-12-07 11:29:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists. The writers were what
we now call technical writers, an occupation that requires a mixture of
technical know-how and a high level of writing skill. It's often said
that we rude mechanicals are deficient in communication ability, but
that's an over-generalisation that's not supported by the evidence.
My professional experience as a translator, among other things, of
operating instructions tells me that the quality of the originals
improves by a factor of x (I'll leave it to you* to define x) when a
technical writer modifies the instructions written by an engineer or the
holder of a patent.
*"You" means here Peter and every other AUE reader. Was it obvious to
everyone without my explanation? How could I have written that sentence
1) only Peter,
2) all AUE readers except Peter?
  I'll leave it to you, Peter, to...
  I'll leave it to those reading this to...
  I'll leave it to aue-ers to...
Damn! Missed the 'except Peter' bit (I'm only half here). I don't
immediately see a clean solution...

I'll leave it to others reading this - not you, Peter - to...
Peter Moylan
2024-12-07 11:33:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Against all improbability, it's actually American. "Happy Days" was a
popular American sitcom about life in the 1950s. A central character was
Fonzie, the cool high school dropout.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days>

An episode in its fifth season had Fonzie jumping over a shark on water
skis. It was widely considered that that was the point at which the show
started going downhill. Later, some people started using "jumped the
shark" to describe the point at which a TV series had run out of good
ideas and was declining in quality.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
musika
2024-12-07 14:17:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Against all improbability, it's actually American. "Happy Days" was a
popular American sitcom about life in the 1950s. A central character was
Fonzie, the cool high school dropout.
   <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days>
An episode in its fifth season had Fonzie jumping over a shark on water
skis. It was widely considered that that was the point at which the show
started going downhill. Later, some people started using "jumped the
shark" to describe the point at which a TV series had run out of good
ideas and was declining in quality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
--
Ray
UK
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-12-07 14:38:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Against all improbability, it's actually American. "Happy Days" was a
popular American sitcom about life in the 1950s. A central character was
Fonzie, the cool high school dropout.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days>
An episode in its fifth season had Fonzie jumping over a shark on water
skis. It was widely considered that that was the point at which the show
started going downhill. Later, some people started using "jumped the
shark" to describe the point at which a TV series had run out of good
ideas and was declining in quality.
No doubt offending some people here, but in my experience American TV
series don't have any quality to lose. Last night we started watching
something called Amelia Teagarden that I had foolishly thought might be
French, after superficially reading what it said in the magazine. Less
than five seconds after it started it was obvious that it was American;
it didn't get any better in a few minutes, after which we switched to a
different channel.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
Kerr-Mudd, John
2024-12-07 15:47:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 15:38:27 +0100
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Against all improbability, it's actually American. "Happy Days" was a
popular American sitcom about life in the 1950s. A central character was
Fonzie, the cool high school dropout.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days>
An episode in its fifth season had Fonzie jumping over a shark on water
skis. It was widely considered that that was the point at which the show
started going downhill. Later, some people started using "jumped the
shark" to describe the point at which a TV series had run out of good
ideas and was declining in quality.
No doubt offending some people here, but in my experience American TV
series don't have any quality to lose. Last night we started watching
something called Amelia Teagarden that I had foolishly thought might be
French, after superficially reading what it said in the magazine. Less
than five seconds after it started it was obvious that it was American;
it didn't get any better in a few minutes, after which we switched to a
different channel.
In the UK one (I forget now) channel had a whole heap of these type of
things; I first noticed because the Canadian actor that played the
detective in some Victorian-era series that my SO was into -
aha "Murdock Mysteries" - was in some. There's another series about a lost
letters dept - all quite corny, heavy on the Christian Message, and all
made by Hallmark - the soppy card company. Schmalz is the word, I think.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Janet
2024-12-07 19:10:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <vj1ml4$34pv9$***@dont-email.me>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Against all improbability, it's actually American. "Happy Days" was a
popular American sitcom about life in the 1950s. A central character was
Fonzie, the cool high school dropout.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days>
An episode in its fifth season had Fonzie jumping over a shark on water
skis. It was widely considered that that was the point at which the show
started going downhill. Later, some people started using "jumped the
shark" to describe the point at which a TV series had run out of good
ideas and was declining in quality.
No doubt offending some people here, but in my experience American TV
series don't have any quality to lose. Last night we started watching
something called Amelia Teagarden that I had foolishly thought might be
French, after superficially reading what it said in the magazine. Less
than five seconds after it started it was obvious that it was American;
it didn't get any better in a few minutes, after which we switched to a
different channel.
We're currently gripped by brilliant "Wolf Hall, the
Mirror and the Light" BBC 1 and I-Player

<https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-
radio/2024/nov/10/wolf-hall-the-mirror-and-the-light-
review-bbc-one" The Mirror and the Light">

Just about sums it up.


Janet
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-08 11:56:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Against all improbability, it's actually American. "Happy Days" was a
popular American sitcom about life in the 1950s. A central character was
Fonzie, the cool high school dropout.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days>
An episode in its fifth season had Fonzie jumping over a shark on water
skis. It was widely considered that that was the point at which the show
started going downhill. Later, some people started using "jumped the
shark" to describe the point at which a TV series had run out of good
ideas and was declining in quality.
No doubt offending some people here, but in my experience American TV
series don't have any quality to lose. Last night we started watching
something called Amelia Teagarden that I had foolishly thought might be
French, after superficially reading what it said in the magazine. Less
than five seconds after it started it was obvious that it was American;
it didn't get any better in a few minutes, after which we switched to a
different channel.
For a brief moment you had me hoping
that she might have Long Dark Tea-Times of the Soul,

Jan
Steve Hayes
2024-12-08 03:06:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Against all improbability, it's actually American. "Happy Days" was a
popular American sitcom about life in the 1950s. A central character was
Fonzie, the cool high school dropout.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days>
An episode in its fifth season had Fonzie jumping over a shark on water
skis. It was widely considered that that was the point at which the show
started going downhill. Later, some people started using "jumped the
shark" to describe the point at which a TV series had run out of good
ideas and was declining in quality.
And, in AUE history, a former RR (Respected Regular) mentioned "Happy
Deays" frequently as an important landmark of the development of the
meaning of "cool".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-07 20:28:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists. The writers were what
we now call technical writers, an occupation that requires a mixture of
technical know-how and a high level of writing skill. It's often said
that we rude mechanicals are deficient in communication ability, but
that's an over-generalisation that's not supported by the evidence.
My professional experience as a translator, among other things, of
operating instructions tells me that the quality of the originals
improves by a factor of x (I'll leave it to you* to define x) when a
technical writer modifies the instructions written by an engineer or the
holder of a patent.
The problem we always found was that you needed an engineer who designed
the system to be able to create the test specs and user documentation.

However, anyone who was so close to the material tended to ignore holes
and errors - because you _knew_ what it was supposed to say.
We would try to ask someone who was technically literate, but unfamiliar
with the system, to read through it.
The problem with that was they were too busy with their own projects to
do a good job of it.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter Moylan
2024-12-07 22:55:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Silvano
My professional experience as a translator, among other things, of
operating instructions tells me that the quality of the originals
improves by a factor of x (I'll leave it to you* to define x) when
a technical writer modifies the instructions written by an engineer
or the holder of a patent.
The problem we always found was that you needed an engineer who
designed the system to be able to create the test specs and user
documentation.
The early computer companies put their best engineers on hardware
design, leaving the software to be done by the second-best engineers.

Those who were hopeless at both hardware and software were assigned to
write the documentation.

I see that nobody has answered Silvano's question about "I'll leave it
to you". Strictly speaking the "you" is ambiguous, but I think everyone
reading what he wrote would take it to include everyone who is reading
this thread.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
Rich Ulrich
2024-12-22 00:31:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Silvano
Post by Peter Moylan
In 2001 it jumped the shark
This must be Australian.
Post by Peter Moylan
I'm not surprised by the prose quality. These magazines were aimed at a
mixture of engineers, technicians, and hobbyists. The writers were what
we now call technical writers, an occupation that requires a mixture of
technical know-how and a high level of writing skill. It's often said
that we rude mechanicals are deficient in communication ability, but
that's an over-generalisation that's not supported by the evidence.
My professional experience as a translator, among other things, of
operating instructions tells me that the quality of the originals
improves by a factor of x (I'll leave it to you* to define x) when a
technical writer modifies the instructions written by an engineer or the
holder of a patent.
The problem we always found was that you needed an engineer who designed
the system to be able to create the test specs and user documentation.
I had the experience, a time or two, of deciding to change the program
to make it easier to document. (How someone might mis-read a prompt
is not always obvious to the programmer, for instance.)
so that the documentation

This week, a ran into a case where a program change was not well-
documented. I needed to login to a site to update the expiration
date of my credit card. I probably last logged in five years ago,
giving them the 01/25 expiration. My login was refused. After
futzing around with re-tries, I went to Change the Password.

There, I learned that their Password NOW needs 8+ charaters and
some variation in characcters -- so my 7-character password was
invalid (and probably never even tested, "too short"). I ran into
the same problem on some other account in recent years; possibly,
they gave some better clue what was going on, but maybe not.
Post by Sam Plusnet
However, anyone who was so close to the material tended to ignore holes
and errors - because you _knew_ what it was supposed to say.
We would try to ask someone who was technically literate, but unfamiliar
with the system, to read through it.
The problem with that was they were too busy with their own projects to
do a good job of it.
The Pitt Computer Center in the 1970s put out good documentation.
They especially hired literate work-study students for re-writes. And
their systems people had to take occasional turns on the Help Desks
in the campus labs. End of the 1970s saw the transition from cards
and keypunch machines to terminals.
--
Rich Ulrich
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-22 01:18:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich Ulrich
This week, a ran into a case where a program change was not well-
documented. I needed to login to a site to update the expiration
date of my credit card. I probably last logged in five years ago,
giving them the 01/25 expiration. My login was refused. After
futzing around with re-tries, I went to Change the Password.
There, I learned that their Password NOW needs 8+ charaters and
some variation in characcters -- so my 7-character password was
invalid (and probably never even tested, "too short").
When I first met that problem I was told I would have to change my
simple password to meet the new requirements before I could access the site.
Of course, in order to access the "Change Password" routine, I first had
to log in...
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter Moylan
2024-12-22 01:50:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
There, I learned that their Password NOW needs 8+ charaters and some
variation in characcters -- so my 7-character password was invalid
(and probably never even tested, "too short")
These password rules are designed to force people to write down their
password on a piece of paper and tape it inside a desk drawer.

Have there been any studies to show that such rules increase security? I
suspect not. Password length is important because it increases the
number of permutations an attacker must try. Rules like "at least on
digit" (which usually translates to appending a "1" to the end of the
existing password) do increase the size of the search space, but not by
all that much.

What we need is a short phrase that is easy to remember but hard to
guess. I reckon that if I changed my password to "time flies like a
banana", nobody but an AUE reader would be able to guess it.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
Snidely
2024-12-22 04:04:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
There, I learned that their Password NOW needs 8+ charaters and some
variation in characcters -- so my 7-character password was invalid
(and probably never even tested, "too short")
These password rules are designed to force people to write down their
password on a piece of paper and tape it inside a desk drawer.
Oh, come on, password managers aren't unknown.
Post by Peter Moylan
Have there been any studies to show that such rules increase security? I
suspect not.
Yes. In general, rules other than minimum length decrease the search
space. Length and entropy are nearly equivalent measures; my password
manager tells you both. It also generates random passwords with high
entropy.
Post by Peter Moylan
Password length is important because it increases the
number of permutations an attacker must try. Rules like "at least on
digit" (which usually translates to appending a "1" to the end of the
existing password) do increase the size of the search space, but not by
all that much.
What we need is a short phrase that is easy to remember but hard to
guess. I reckon that if I changed my password to "time flies like a
banana", nobody but an AUE reader would be able to guess it.
That one is probably in a dictionary attack. It's a well-known phrase
beyond AUE. See also Star Trek ship numbers.

/dps
--
And the Raiders and the Broncos have life now in the West. I thought
they were both nearly dead if not quite really most sincerely dead. --
Mike Salfino, fivethirtyeight.com
Peter Moylan
2024-12-22 06:37:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Rich Ulrich
There, I learned that their Password NOW needs 8+ charaters and
some variation in characcters -- so my 7-character password was
invalid (and probably never even tested, "too short")
These password rules are designed to force people to write down
their password on a piece of paper and tape it inside a desk
drawer.
Oh, come on, password managers aren't unknown.
And are routinely used by sophisticated computer users. The average
computer user, though, either doesn't know about them or isn't sure how
to install them.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
jerryfriedman
2024-12-07 15:41:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
..

I wouldn't be surprised if the readers' letters were
improved by the editors before publication. Or if the
vocabulary that was well-chosen from a modern point
of view was sometimes faddish and vulgar from the
point of view of '30s purists.

--
Jerry Friedman

--
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-07 20:36:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
..
I wouldn't be surprised if the readers' letters were
improved by the editors before publication.  Or if the
vocabulary that was well-chosen from a modern point
of view was sometimes faddish and vulgar from the
point of view of '30s purists.
It may well be so.
The approach to editing on a magazine which is published monthly would
be very different to today's:
"Get it up on the website in the next twenty minutes!" attitude.

However, when sitting down to draft a letter, fountain pen in hand, to
the editor of such an august publication as Wireless World, the writer
might well spend more time choosing his words than someone rattling the
keyboard to send a random comment to an online forum.
--
Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-08 22:08:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
..
I wouldn't be surprised if the readers' letters were
improved by the editors before publication. Or if the
vocabulary that was well-chosen from a modern point
of view was sometimes faddish and vulgar from the
point of view of '30s purists.
A newspaper I read (sometimes) claimed recently
that the first victim of AI on their pages
is the letters department.
They try to weed out the obvious,
but are not always succesful with that,

Jan
Rich Ulrich
2024-12-13 17:58:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Hibou
I've been browsing issues of 'The Wireless World' from mid-1939, and am
struck by the quality of the prose - a bit verbose on occasion, perhaps,
but smooth; the grammar is good and the vocabulary well chosen, with
just an occasional error ('effect' for 'affect' etc.). This from 'rude
mechanicals', mind you, and just as true of readers' letters as of the
main articles.
..
I wouldn't be surprised if the readers' letters were
improved by the editors before publication. Or if the
vocabulary that was well-chosen from a modern point
of view was sometimes faddish and vulgar from the
point of view of '30s purists.
Back in the days when home-mechanics could care for
their own cars, I read of successful and popular column
that "answered readers' quesstions" about changing oil or
spark plugs, tuning, etc. The revelation of the story was,
readers seldom wrote, or wrote badly. The experienced
mechanic who wrote the column also wrote every "letter"
he was responding to.

I don't remember whether he was chagrined when this
news came out, or if anyone was bothered. It did seem
to me like there was a hint of deceiving the reader.
--
Rich Ulrich
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