"Sitting on your hands"

[occam]

A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."

The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.

Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing
about a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."

What means? Oh, I have to read the subject line.

"Sidde på sine hænder" is a perfectly normal expression in Danish.

Post by occam
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it?

There's more, and you quoted it yourself. The person ought to do
something.

Post by occam
Normally, there is an element of boredom associated with sitting on
one's hand.

Not in the Danish expression. We typically use about mimisters who do
not solve important problems. They are by no means bored.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

"Sitting on your hands" means deliberately doing nothing,
in the belief (rightly or wrongly) that doing nothing is
the best thing that can be done.

[Ross Clark]

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

[Stefan Ram]

Post by Ross Clark
Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

Yeah, you know how it goes: The mercury starts to dip, and next
thing you know, your mitts are turning into popsicles! Now,
some folks might get the bright idea to sandwich their hands
between their thighs. But let's face it, that's a surefire
way to raise eyebrows and come off as sketchy AF. It's a total
no-go, or at least it could be taken that way. So, to nip any
funny business in the bud, you just park those bad boys under
your thighs instead. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy, and you're
not giving off creeper vibes at the Santa Monica Pier.

[Stefan Ram]

Post by Stefan Ram
way to raise eyebrows and come off as sketchy AF. It's a total

I hit up the chatbot for a quick Python script, and wouldn't you
know it, the dude managed to sneak in an "as f" like it was no
big deal! Here's the source code; see if you can spot it.

|import hashlib
|
|def calculate_file_checksum(filename):
| sha256_hash = hashlib.sha256()
| with open(filename, "rb") as f:
| for byte_block in iter(lambda: f.read(4096), b""):
| sha256_hash.update(byte_block)
| return sha256_hash.hexdigest()
.
I'm not exactly a Python whiz, but I'd wager that when you
open a file "as f", it's probably packing more of a punch
or running like a cheetah on Red Bull or something.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by Ross Clark

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Ross Clark

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
summed it up perfectly upthread:

It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.

Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.

Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

[Rich Ulrich]

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Ross Clark

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.

I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

[Snidely]

Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Ross Clark

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony. Procrastination or refusal. I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation. That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

/dps

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

..

Post by Snidely

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper
The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony. Procrastination or refusal. I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

I don't think I have either.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

--
Jerry Friedman

[LionelEdwards]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

...

Post by Snidely

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper
The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony. Procrastination or refusal. I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

I don't think I have either.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

Take a rain-check?

Suppose Israel sits on its hands with regard to Iran.
Iran has to be in a constant state of alert for what
it knows will happen. Doing nothing for as long as
possible achieves maximum disruption at zero cost.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by jerryfriedman
Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

Sleep on it before making a decision. That is a Danish advice.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take a deep breath,
slow down, there's no rush, don't do anything rash, I think we need
to think about this first.

Sleep on it before making a decision. That is a Danish advice.

All of that can be good advice, but I would never describe any of them
as sitting on one's hands.

In my experience, "sitting on their hands" ONLY refers to the negative
side of failing to act when action is needed.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take a deep breath,
slow down, there's no rush, don't do anything rash, I think we need
to think about this first.

Sleep on it before making a decision. That is a Danish advice.

All of that can be good advice, but I would never describe any of them
as sitting on one's hands.

Neither wouldn't I, but I can see that that wasn't clear in my message.

Post by Peter Moylan
In my experience, "sitting on their hands" ONLY refers to the negative
side of failing to act when action is needed.

Ditto.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Fri, 18 Oct 2024 08:03:10 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take a deep breath,
slow down, there's no rush, don't do anything rash, I think we need
to think about this first.

Sleep on it before making a decision. That is a Danish advice.

All of that can be good advice, but I would never describe any of them
as sitting on one's hands.

Neither wouldn't I, but I can see that that wasn't clear in my message.

Post by Peter Moylan
In my experience, "sitting on their hands" ONLY refers to the negative
side of failing to act when action is needed.

Ditto.

By coincidence, the book I'm reading right now just showed me
the trope. And it was first-person, showing restraint -

[pizza box being opened]
"I started to reach but then stopped pulled back, and sat on my
hands in case they decided to betray my will."

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

Sleep on it before making a decision. That is a Danish advice.

American too. (And "advice" is a mass noun; it doesn't
take an indefinite article. At least in normal usage.
There's apparently some place where "an advice" can mean
a legal document.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Adam Funk]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

Sleep on it before making a decision. That is a Danish advice.

American too. (And "advice" is a mass noun; it doesn't
take an indefinite article. At least in normal usage.
There's apparently some place where "an advice" can mean
a legal document.)

In BrE a "remittance advice" is a document that tells you some money
has been transferred to your bank account.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

..

Post by Snidely

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper
The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony.  Procrastination or refusal.  I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

I don't think I have either.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

You need "measure twice, cut once" in there somewhere.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

..

Post by Snidely

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper
The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony.  Procrastination or refusal.  I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

I don't think I have either.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

You need "measure twice, cut once" in there somewhere.

That occurred to me, but I didn't want to leap before I
looked.

--
Jerry Friedman

[occam]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

..

Post by Snidely

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper
The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony.  Procrastination or refusal.  I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

I don't think I have either.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

You need "measure twice, cut once" in there somewhere.

No, the engineer's expression you're looking for is "If it ain't broke,
don't fix it".

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by occam

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

..

Post by Snidely

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper
The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony.  Procrastination or refusal.  I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

I don't think I have either.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

You need "measure twice, cut once" in there somewhere.

No, the engineer's expression you're looking for is "If it ain't broke,
don't fix it".

Not these days. The revised form is:

"If it ain't broke, it's in desperate need of some schlimmbesserung."

<wanders away, whistling a Flanders & Swann song>

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Sam Plusnet
"If it ain't broke, it's in desperate need of some schlimmbesserung."

Or a revised version of an 'instruction' for a shootup game:

If it's broke, fix it. If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

[Aidan Kehoe]

Post by Sam Plusnet
"If it ain't broke, it's in desperate need of some schlimmbesserung."
<wanders away, whistling a Flanders & Swann song>

„Verschlimmbesserung“ is how I usually see it expressed, but now I check with
Google Ngrams Schlimmbesserung is perfectly fine.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Aidan Kehoe

Post by Sam Plusnet
"If it ain't broke, it's in desperate need of some schlimmbesserung."
<wanders away, whistling a Flanders & Swann song>

„Verschlimmbesserung“ is how I usually see it expressed, but now I check with
Google Ngrams Schlimmbesserung is perfectly fine.

DWDS only contains "Verschlimmbesserung", but it is understandable in
the shorter form.

[Silvano]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Aidan Kehoe

Post by Sam Plusnet
"If it ain't broke, it's in desperate need of some schlimmbesserung."
<wanders away, whistling a Flanders & Swann song>

„Verschlimmbesserung“ is how I usually see it expressed, but now I check with
Google Ngrams Schlimmbesserung is perfectly fine.

Really? I can't believe it, unless you only got examples written by
foreigners.

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
DWDS only contains "Verschlimmbesserung", but it is understandable in
the shorter form.

Yes, Germans would understand Schlimmbesserung, I think, but they never
use it and you won't find it in
<https://www.duden.de/suchen/dudenonline/schlimmbesserung>.
Duden is the leading German dictionary, even more relevant than
Merriam-Webster in the US.
Please don't ask ME why Germans only use Verschlimmbesserung. Some
native German speakers read AUE and they can explain it much better than
I could.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Silvano
Duden is the leading German dictionary,

I know Duden, but they blocked me at some point from using some
function, and since then I dropped it. I use DWDS:

https://www.dwds.de/

Post by Silvano
Please don't ask ME why Germans only use Verschlimmbesserung. Some
native German speakers read AUE and they can explain it much better than
I could.

I know why, but I can't explain it.

[occam]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

..

Post by Snidely

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper
The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony.  Procrastination or refusal.  I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

I don't think I have either.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step
back" and "take a long look", sometimes concatenated.

Hold your horses, keep your shirt or pants on, take
a deep breath, slow down, there's no rush, don't do
anything rash, I think we need to think about this
first.

Let's wait and see.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Ross Clark

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony. Procrastination or refusal. I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

But no one said it did.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step back" and "take a long look", sometimes
concatenated.

It is about not reacting straightaway without thinking about it,

Jan

[Snidely]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Snidely
Rich Ulrich suggested that ...

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Ross Clark

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

Not at all. "sitting on your hands" is proactive and Jan
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
Prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain. And, don't let your
opponents tempt you into giving the obvious and immediate
response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

That fits my idea of it. But I associate it with Other rather than
Self control.
I don't recall the precedent, and no one has mentioned it, but
what I first think of is someone doing some intricate task and
allowing another person (young) to sit by and watch if they
agree to sit on their hands.

I, otoh, agree with Tony. Procrastination or refusal. I've never seen
it used to indicate patient evaluation.

But no one said it did.

Post by Snidely
That would be "take a step back" and "take a long look", sometimes
concatenated.

It is about not reacting straightaway without thinking about it,
Jan

That does not match the usage I'm familiar with. Sit on one's hands is
not about taking a moment to consider, it's about refusing.

/dps

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Ross Clark

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Maybe, but your hands are what you do stuff with. Sitting on them is
kind of double doing-nothing.

The image of a person sitting on their hands suggests not just
inactivity to correct a problem, but deliberate refusal..

... to be rushed into immediate action.

Perhaps you should try it for once, really, IRL.
Sitting on your hands is not a comfortable position to sit in.
You must come off your hands sooner than later,
or it will hurt in some way or other,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

I think your interpretation is too negative.
I was taught the expression when learning chess.
(by someone much better at it than I will ever be)

It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.

So: prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain.
And, don't let your opponent(s) tempt you
into giving the obviousand immedidiate response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.

Or in chess terms, think twice before taking a gambit,

Jan

[occam]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

I think your interpretation is too negative.

Perhaps. However I got the impression that was the intent of the news
report. Ministers/civil servants prevaricating and not reacting in a
timely manner.

Post by J. J. Lodder
I was taught the expression when learning chess.
(by someone much better at it than I will ever be)
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes more time.
So: prevent your hands, and so your intuitive responses,
from taking over from the brain.
And, don't let your opponent(s) tempt you
into giving the obviousand immedidiate response.
Don't allow yourself to be pressurised into immediate action.
Or in chess terms, think twice before taking a gambit,

Oh, you can't accuse politicians of that. They normally think three,
four or more times before doing anything that would reflect badly on
themselves. If - in the process - they do nothing, so be it.

[Janet]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

I think your interpretation is too negative.
I was taught the expression when learning chess.
(by someone much better at it than I will ever be)
It means: don't do impulsive things that may look good
on the spur of the moment, but that you may regret later on.
In other words, take the time to take stock of the situation,
and produce a considered response, even if that takes

more time.


I agree. Here's an example of the "sensible caution"
meaning.

Janet

[Peter Moylan]

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Sitting on your hands is worse that sitting on your arse. If your hands
are tucked underneath you, you can't even do anything useful with your
hands.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Sitting on your hands is worse that sitting on your arse. If your hands
are tucked underneath you, you can't even do anything useful with your
hands.

Right. All of us sit on our arses every day, but not usually on our hands.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Sitting on your hands is worse that sitting on your arse. If your hands
are tucked underneath you, you can't even do anything useful with your
hands.

Right. All of us sit on our arses every day, but not usually on our hands.

If we don't sit on our hands we might be subject to knee-jerk
reaction?

When AI first controlled the stock markets, a well-timed
"sell" might trigger a Bear market as the programs completed with
each other to beat what they predicted to be an unfolding "crash".
Those who sat on their hands saw things more clearly.

[Janet]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Sitting on your hands is worse that sitting on your arse. If your hands
are tucked underneath you, you can't even do anything useful with your
hands.

To describe someone as "sitting on their arse"
definitely has a negative implication of laziness,
avoiding responsibility.

"sitting on their hands" is not necessarily negative; it
can be used to imply cautious common sense , waiting to
see what happens before making a major decision.

" I need a bigger flat but I'm sitting on my hands until
my company decides where I'll be based next year."

Janet.

[occam]

Post by Janet

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Sitting on your hands is worse that sitting on your arse. If your hands
are tucked underneath you, you can't even do anything useful with your
hands.

To describe someone as "sitting on their arse"
definitely has a negative implication of laziness,
avoiding responsibility.

This is why a journalist would not _say_ it, but would _think it_ when
referring to a government body. (I'm thinking particularly of the
'avoiding responsibility' part of your sentence.)

Post by Janet
"sitting on their hands" is not necessarily negative;

Agree.

Post by Janet
it
can be used to imply cautious common sense , waiting to
see what happens before making a major decision.

That is the benefit of the doubt given to the government/politician.
As we all know, one can wait for a long time for any decision/action.
More often than not, the hope is that the issue will blow over.

Post by Janet
" I need a bigger flat but I'm sitting on my hands until
my company decides where I'll be based next year."
Janet.

[Chris Elvidge]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by occam
A BBC News item this morning used the expression to describe the UK
government's attitude about <some issue>. It means "to do nothing about
a problem or a situation that needs dealing with."
The image I have is of a young person sitting, with hands tucked under
his thighs (maybe swinging this legs?) while doing nothing.
Is this a polite form of "sitting on his arse, doing nothing", or is
there more to it? Normally, there is an element of boredom associated
with sitting on one's hand.

Sitting on your hands is worse that sitting on your arse. If your hands
are tucked underneath you, you can't even do anything useful with your
hands.

I think the 'useful' here is vital.

There's far too much "Something must be done about .... This is
something, so it must be done." in Government - and other realms where
the advocate of 'something' has no idea of how to implement it.
Breakable encryption, but only by the good guys, springs to mind.

Does PI still equal 3 in Oz?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-here-says-australian-pm/

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Chris Elvidge
Does PI still equal 3 in Oz?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-here-says-australian-pm/

They draw a bit of an unfair conclusion. Although I would never have
voted for him, Talkbull was one of our more intelligent leaders.

Not like his successor, Scotty from Marketing, who was a complete idiot.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Chris Elvidge
Does PI still equal 3 in Oz?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-

here-says-australian-pm/

Post by Peter Moylan
They draw a bit of an unfair conclusion. Although I would never have
voted for him, Talkbull was one of our more intelligent leaders.

And he was completely right of course.
The 'laws of mathematics' may say that codes cannot be cracked,
but the 'laws of Australia' may say that the codes must be cracked,
when in Australia, by you handing over the keys,
(or else)

Jan

Post by Peter Moylan
Not like his successor, Scotty from Marketing, who was a complete idiot.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Chris Elvidge

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Chris Elvidge
Does PI still equal 3 in Oz?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-

here-says-australian-pm/

Post by Peter Moylan
They draw a bit of an unfair conclusion. Although I would never have
voted for him, Talkbull was one of our more intelligent leaders.

And he was completely right of course.
The 'laws of mathematics' may say that codes cannot be cracked,
but the 'laws of Australia' may say that the codes must be cracked,
when in Australia, by you handing over the keys,
(or else)

One of the great advantages the Allies had during WWII
was their ability to crack, first the Nazi "Enigma" code
- thanks to Alan Turing - then the Japanese codes.

If you know your enemies' "secret" plans at the same they
do, that gives you a huge edge. Not an advantage you
would want to draw attention to.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Chris Elvidge

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Chris Elvidge
Does PI still equal 3 in Oz?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-

here-says-australian-pm/

Post by Peter Moylan
They draw a bit of an unfair conclusion. Although I would never have
voted for him, Talkbull was one of our more intelligent leaders.

And he was completely right of course.
The 'laws of mathematics' may say that codes cannot be cracked,
but the 'laws of Australia' may say that the codes must be cracked,
when in Australia, by you handing over the keys,
(or else)

One of the great advantages the Allies had during WWII
was their ability to crack, first the Nazi "Enigma" code
- thanks to Alan Turing - then the Japanese codes.

I don't think I'd use "advantages" there in that way. The Allies
*gained* an advantage when they figured out how the codes could be
cracked, but the sentence implies the advantage was always there.

Both sides had the "ability" to crack the codes of the other side, but
the Allies were more successful in doing so.

Post by LionelEdwards
If you know your enemies' "secret" plans at the same they
do, that gives you a huge edge. Not an advantage you
would want to draw attention to.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Chris Elvidge

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Chris Elvidge
Does PI still equal 3 in Oz?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-

here-says-australian-pm/

Post by Peter Moylan
They draw a bit of an unfair conclusion. Although I would never have
voted for him, Talkbull was one of our more intelligent leaders.

And he was completely right of course.
The 'laws of mathematics' may say that codes cannot be cracked,
but the 'laws of Australia' may say that the codes must be cracked,
when in Australia, by you handing over the keys,
(or else)

One of the great advantages the Allies had during WWII
was their ability to crack, first the Nazi "Enigma" code
- thanks to Alan Turing - then the Japanese codes.

I don't think I'd use "advantages" there in that way. The Allies
*gained* an advantage when they figured out how the codes could be
cracked, but the sentence implies the advantage was always there.

Not sure what point you are trying to make, but the advantage
*was* always there.

"The Enigma code was first broken by the Poles, under the
leadership of mathematician Marian Rejewski, in the
early 1930s".

Post by Tony Cooper
Both sides had the "ability" to crack the codes of the other side, but
the Allies were more successful in doing so.

Post by LionelEdwards
If you know your enemies' "secret" plans at the same they
do, that gives you a huge edge. Not an advantage you
would want to draw attention to.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Chris Elvidge

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Chris Elvidge
Does PI still equal 3 in Oz?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-

here-says-australian-pm/

Post by Peter Moylan
They draw a bit of an unfair conclusion. Although I would never have
voted for him, Talkbull was one of our more intelligent leaders.

And he was completely right of course.
The 'laws of mathematics' may say that codes cannot be cracked,
but the 'laws of Australia' may say that the codes must be cracked,
when in Australia, by you handing over the keys,
(or else)

One of the great advantages the Allies had during WWII
was their ability to crack, first the Nazi "Enigma" code
- thanks to Alan Turing - then the Japanese codes.

I don't think I'd use "advantages" there in that way. The Allies
*gained* an advantage when they figured out how the codes could be
cracked, but the sentence implies the advantage was always there.
Both sides had the "ability" to crack the codes of the other side, but
the Allies were more successful in doing so.

Cracking those codes was not a 'once and done' sort of thing. Setting
were constantly being changed so the 'cracking' would have to be
repeated every day and done for each organisation being monitored).

Often they didn't crack a particular code quickly enough for the
information to be useful.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Cracking those codes was not a 'once and done' sort of thing. Setting
were constantly being changed so the 'cracking' would have to be
repeated every day and done for each organisation being monitored).

That was Turings contribution with his Bomb.

Post by Sam Plusnet
Often they didn't crack a particular code quickly enough for the
information to be useful.

The breakthrough came when they realised that they could always find a
specific part in each message.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Sam Plusnet
Cracking those codes was not a 'once and done' sort of thing. Setting
were constantly being changed so the 'cracking' would have to be
repeated every day and done for each organisation being monitored).

That was Turings contribution with his Bomb.

Post by Sam Plusnet
Often they didn't crack a particular code quickly enough for the
information to be useful.

The breakthrough came when they realised that they could always find a
specific part in each message.

Always start by mentioning the date and describing the current weather.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Sam Plusnet
Cracking those codes was not a 'once and done' sort of thing. Setting
were constantly being changed so the 'cracking' would have to be
repeated every day and done for each organisation being monitored).

That was Turings contribution with his Bomb.

Post by Sam Plusnet
Often they didn't crack a particular code quickly enough for the
information to be useful.

The breakthrough came when they realised that they could always find a
specific part in each message.

There never was such a thing as 'the breakthrough'.
It never was that simple,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Sam Plusnet
Cracking those codes was not a 'once and done' sort of thing. Setting
were constantly being changed so the 'cracking' would have to be
repeated every day and done for each organisation being monitored).

That was Turings contribution with his Bomb.

The thing is (and was) called a 'bombe'
And it wasn't Turing's invention.
He was handed a working prototype by the French,
who in their turn had it from the Polish.
Turing merely refined it. (and scaled it up)

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Sam Plusnet
Often they didn't crack a particular code quickly enough for the
information to be useful.

Even information that came 'too late' could still be useful.
It provided insights in how the opponents worked.

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
The breakthrough came when they realised that they could always find a
specific part in each message.

If only that had been true. The art was to guess 'a crib',
(a small part of the original text)
try it with 'the 'bombe', recognise the result, if any,
and if not try again with another crib.

Sometimes it succeeded, sometimes not.
Sometimes the Germans made it easy, sometimes not.

Jan

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by LionelEdwards
One of the great advantages the Allies had during WWII
was their ability to crack, first the Nazi "Enigma" code
- thanks to Alan Turing

You forget the Poles that made a lot of the preliminary work and
supplied the machine.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by LionelEdwards
One of the great advantages the Allies had during WWII
was their ability to crack, first the Nazi "Enigma" code
- thanks to Alan Turing

You forget the Poles that made a lot of the preliminary work and
supplied the machine.

Except that I wrote upthread: "The Enigma code was first
broken by the Poles, under the leadership of mathematician
Marian Rejewski, in the early 1930s".