Discussion:
She is not interested in my opinions unless she tells me what they are.
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tonbei
2024-10-02 02:47:35 UTC
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I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.

(Kathleen :) "You’re a scientist. I’m not telling you anything you don’t
know about genetics. I’m sure you agree you can’t change nature.”
“What people experience also has significant impact,” I reply.
“You can see it with the dogs,” Kathleen continues, not interested in my
opinions unless she tells me what they are.
(Kathleen :) "You get a greyhound that was mistreated, and it’s going
to react to certain things a certain way and have its sensitivities. But
it’s either a good dog or a bad dog.
("Red Mist " by Patricia Cornwell, p39)


context (or situation): 1) In a prison for females, and Kathleen is an
inmate there for crime of murders.
2) Kay Scarpetta, the first narrator, is an medical examiner and is
interviewing her in a visitation room.
3) Kathleen talks on about her unhappy life since childhood and says
what made her this way is because of genetics in her.

question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
Aidan Kehoe
2024-10-02 06:19:35 UTC
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Post by tonbei
I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
(Kathleen :) "You’re a scientist. I’m not telling you anything you don’t
know about genetics. I’m sure you agree you can’t change nature.”
“What people experience also has significant impact,” I reply.
“You can see it with the dogs,” Kathleen continues, not interested in my
opinions unless she tells me what they are.
(Kathleen :) "You get a greyhound that was mistreated, and it’s going
to react to certain things a certain way and have its sensitivities. But
it’s either a good dog or a bad dog.
("Red Mist " by Patricia Cornwell, p39)
context (or situation): 1) In a prison for females, and Kathleen is an
inmate there for crime of murders.
2) Kay Scarpetta, the first narrator, is an medical examiner and is
interviewing her in a visitation room.
3) Kathleen talks on about her unhappy life since childhood and says
what made her this way is because of genetics in her.
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Yes, that’s my reading too, with “they” Scarpetta’s opinions.
Post by tonbei
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
The phrasing is a little complex. If the sentence were:

““You can see it with the dogs,” Kathleen continues, uninterested.’

It would be clear enough, that ‘uninterested’ is an adjective.

For me this is syntactictically basically the same, with a phrase (‘unless she
tells me what they are’) modifying the adjective.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
tonbei
2024-10-02 09:48:47 UTC
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I may have been mixed up about the usage of "what" in "she tells me what
they are", whether indirect question or antecedent.

1) indirect question 2) antecedent
If one takes "what" as an indirect question, this sentence makes no
sense.
I should have taken this "what" as an antecedent.
tonbei
2024-10-02 10:29:31 UTC
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Post by tonbei
I may have been mixed up about the usage of "what" in "she tells me what
they are", whether indirect question or antecedent.
1) indirect question 2) antecedent
If one takes "what" as an indirect question, this sentence makes no
sense.
Post by tonbei
I should have taken this "what" as an antecedent.
Let the above be corrected like below:

antecedent > relative pronoun"
"What" as a relative pronoun takes no antecedent.
Steve Hayes
2024-10-03 05:14:58 UTC
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Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.

"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
lar3ryca
2024-10-03 05:40:59 UTC
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Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said

"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
--
The best way to accelerate a Windows machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec.
J. J. Lodder
2024-10-16 08:24:02 UTC
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Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?

Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-10-16 09:11:56 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
J. J. Lodder
2024-10-16 12:56:40 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
Well, yes, it doesn't really require an answer.
What I love about Americans is their unfliching belief in the virtues of
free speech, and their fierce willingness to defend it at all costs.
No doubt it also applies to their culturally subject regions.
It should no doubt be understood as an expression
of their equaly famous sense of humour.

OTOH I cannot really imagine seeing a T-shirt like that
while walking in London,

Jan
lar3ryca
2024-10-16 22:56:36 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
Well, yes, it doesn't really require an answer.
What I love about Americans is their unfliching belief in the virtues of
free speech, and their fierce willingness to defend it at all costs.
No doubt it also applies to their culturally subject regions.
It should no doubt be understood as an expression
of their equaly famous sense of humour.
FYI, just because I saw the T-shirt does not indicate my feelings toward
it. It also doesn't mean I saw it being worn. In fact it was on a web
site that flogs clothing with text or graphics on them.
Post by J. J. Lodder
OTOH I cannot really imagine seeing a T-shirt like that
while walking in London,
--
You've heard of Murphy's law, but have you heard of Cole's Law?
It's thinly sliced cabbage with salad dressing.
J. J. Lodder
2024-10-17 13:43:49 UTC
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Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested
in my opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she
wants to hear. Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence
means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
Well, yes, it doesn't really require an answer.
What I love about Americans is their unfliching belief in the virtues of
free speech, and their fierce willingness to defend it at all costs.
No doubt it also applies to their culturally subject regions.
It should no doubt be understood as an expression
of their equaly famous sense of humour.
FYI, just because I saw the T-shirt does not indicate my feelings toward
it. It also doesn't mean I saw it being worn. In fact it was on a web
site that flogs clothing with text or graphics on them.
I realise that, and I supposed that you would understand
that I realise that.
It is a symptom indicating what kind of environment you live in.

Unfortunately, for you and also for the world at large,
it is an environment where texts such as these,
threatening violence against free speech,
are considered to be funny, or even humorous,

Jan
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
OTOH I cannot really imagine seeing a T-shirt like that
while walking in London,
If it is any comfort, I also think that texts such as these
would not be seen in the USA in the Kennedy era.
America has not improved in the meantime.
jerryfriedman
2024-10-17 17:10:54 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested
in my opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she
wants to hear. Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence
means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
Well, yes, it doesn't really require an answer.
What I love about Americans is their unfliching belief in the virtues of
free speech, and their fierce willingness to defend it at all costs.
No doubt it also applies to their culturally subject regions.
It should no doubt be understood as an expression
of their equaly famous sense of humour.
FYI, just because I saw the T-shirt does not indicate my feelings toward
it. It also doesn't mean I saw it being worn. In fact it was on a web
site that flogs clothing with text or graphics on them.
I realise that, and I supposed that you would understand
that I realise that.
It is a symptom indicating what kind of environment you live in.
Unfortunately, for you and also for the world at large,
it is an environment where texts such as these,
threatening violence against free speech,
are considered to be funny, or even humorous,
It's not actually a threat. I'm not particularly
pleased by the popularity of T-shirts with rude slogans,
though.
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
OTOH I cannot really imagine seeing a T-shirt like that
while walking in London,
If it is any comfort, I also think that texts such as these
would not be seen in the USA in the Kennedy era.
I don't think people wore a lot of graphic T-shirts in
the Kennedy era.
Post by J. J. Lodder
America has not improved in the meantime.
During the Kennedy era, people demonstrating for civil
rights were routinely beaten by mobs with the
connivance or the help of the police.

--
Jerry Friedman
J. J. Lodder
2024-10-18 19:21:27 UTC
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Post by jerryfriedman
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested
in my opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she
wants to hear. Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence
means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
Well, yes, it doesn't really require an answer.
What I love about Americans is their unfliching belief in the virtues of
free speech, and their fierce willingness to defend it at all costs.
No doubt it also applies to their culturally subject regions.
It should no doubt be understood as an expression
of their equaly famous sense of humour.
FYI, just because I saw the T-shirt does not indicate my feelings toward
it. It also doesn't mean I saw it being worn. In fact it was on a web
site that flogs clothing with text or graphics on them.
I realise that, and I supposed that you would understand
that I realise that.
It is a symptom indicating what kind of environment you live in.
Unfortunately, for you and also for the world at large,
it is an environment where texts such as these,
threatening violence against free speech,
are considered to be funny, or even humorous,
It's not actually a threat. I'm not particularly
pleased by the popularity of T-shirts with rude slogans,
though.
You have become insensitive by all the verbal violence around you
if you think that:
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
is not a threat.
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
OTOH I cannot really imagine seeing a T-shirt like that
while walking in London,
If it is any comfort, I also think that texts such as these
would not be seen in the USA in the Kennedy era.
I don't think people wore a lot of graphic T-shirts in
the Kennedy era.
Post by J. J. Lodder
America has not improved in the meantime.
During the Kennedy era, people demonstrating for civil
rights were routinely beaten by mobs with the
connivance or the help of the police.
Certainly, and some still advocated killing commies for christ.
Nevertheless, the Kennedy years were a period of relative civilisation
and sanity, by American standards.

Jan
lar3ryca
2024-10-18 06:35:25 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested
in my opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she
wants to hear. Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence
means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
Well, yes, it doesn't really require an answer.
What I love about Americans is their unfliching belief in the virtues of
free speech, and their fierce willingness to defend it at all costs.
No doubt it also applies to their culturally subject regions.
It should no doubt be understood as an expression
of their equaly famous sense of humour.
FYI, just because I saw the T-shirt does not indicate my feelings toward
it. It also doesn't mean I saw it being worn. In fact it was on a web
site that flogs clothing with text or graphics on them.
I realise that, and I supposed that you would understand
that I realise that.
It is a symptom indicating what kind of environment you live in.
Unfortunately, for you and also for the world at large,
it is an environment where texts such as these,
threatening violence against free speech,
are considered to be funny, or even humorous,
I guess I wasn't clear enough. I have never seen a person wearing such
shirt. As I mentioned, it was in an ad. The company selling them (and
many other shirts, was Chinese.
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
OTOH I cannot really imagine seeing a T-shirt like that
while walking in London,
If it is any comfort, I also think that texts such as these
would not be seen in the USA in the Kennedy era.
America has not improved in the meantime.
--
Cross country skiing is great if you live in a small country.
Sam Plusnet
2024-10-18 19:40:09 UTC
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Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by lar3ryca
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested
in my opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she
wants to hear. Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence
means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Saw a T-shirt a few years ago that said
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you."
You are American, I presume?
Canadian.
Well, yes, it doesn't really require an answer.
What I love about Americans is their unfliching belief in the virtues of
free speech, and their fierce willingness to defend it at all costs.
No doubt it also applies to their culturally subject regions.
It should no doubt be understood as an expression
of their equaly famous sense of humour.
FYI, just because I saw the T-shirt does not indicate my feelings toward
it. It also doesn't mean I saw it being worn. In fact it was on a web
site that flogs clothing with text or graphics on them.
I realise that, and I supposed that you would understand
that I realise that.
It is a symptom indicating what kind of environment you live in.
Unfortunately, for you and also for the world at large,
it is an environment where texts such as these,
threatening violence against free speech,
are considered to be funny, or even humorous,
I guess I wasn't clear enough. I have never seen a person wearing such
shirt. As I mentioned, it was in an ad. The company selling them (and
many other shirts, was Chinese.
Stop using facts to try and wriggle out of this.
--
Sam Plusnet
jerryfriedman
2024-10-03 14:26:13 UTC
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Post by Steve Hayes
Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
In either case, I couldn't make sense enough. I couldn't even guess.
But I feel that the sentence may want to say: she isn't interested in my
opinions unless I tell her what she's interested , or she wants to hear.
Even so, I couldn't make sense of how the sentence means it.
It refers to the use of straw man arguments, or sometimes just telling
other people what to think.
"If I want your opinion I'll give it to you."
Yes. I'd say your quotation is mostly a comically
exaggerated way of saying "I'm not interested in your
opinion."

In this case "unless she tells me what they are" refers
specifically to Kathleen's saying, "I’m sure you agree
you can’t change nature.”

--
Jerry Friedman
Stefan Ram
2024-10-03 21:38:32 UTC
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Post by tonbei
question: about "unless she tells me what they are"
In the first place, I wonder what're meant by "they" in "she tells me
what they are", the dogs or my opinions.
The phrase "unless she's telling me what they are" is about
Scarpetta's take, not the pooches. It's painting a picture of
Kathleen's vibe during their chin-wag.

Kathleen couldn't care less about Scarpetta's two cents, unless
it's in sync with what Kathleen's already got cooking in her
noggin or wants to hear. In other words, Kathleen's only down
to clue in on Scarpetta's thoughts if they're on the same
wavelength as her preconceived notions.
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