Chavs, Townies, Kevs, Charvers, Steeks, Spides, Bazzas, Yarcos ...

[Mickwick]

... Ratboys, Kappa Slappers, Skangers, Janners, Stigs, Scallies, Sengas,
Pikeys, Gallus Weegies and a Generous Assortment of Neds.

The following websites define and illustrate various terms current in
modern British riffraffology:

http://www.chavscum.co.uk/culture.html

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/no31online/spidegenerator.htm

http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/nedagotchi/glaNedagotchi.html

http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/people/glaPeople.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/tv/chewinthefat/neds/neducation.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/tv/chewinthefat/personality_test/index.sht
ml
(Can't get that one to work but perhaps someone else can.)

'Chav', by the way, comes from the Sanskrit 'sava' via Polari and
Romany.

[RobertE]

Post by Mickwick
... Ratboys, Kappa Slappers, Skangers, Janners, Stigs, Scallies, Sengas,
Pikeys, Gallus Weegies and a Generous Assortment of Neds.
'Chav', by the way, comes from the Sanskrit 'sava' via Polari and
Romany.

Hmm. Charvs (or as they're called in Newcastle, "Charvers") seem to be all
the rage at the moment. Dot Wordsworth's "Mind Your Language" column in this
week's Spectator magazine is also about charvers. For what it's worth, she
gives the same etymology.

It's something we discuss regularly at my office. We assumed, though, that
the word "charver" was unique to the North East of England. Seems we were
wrong.

Thanks for the web links. They're quite enlightening.

RobertE

[Mickwick]

Post by RobertE

Post by Mickwick
'Chav', by the way, comes from the Sanskrit 'sava' via Polari and
Romany.

Hmm. Charvs (or as they're called in Newcastle, "Charvers") seem to be all
the rage at the moment. Dot Wordsworth's "Mind Your Language" column in this
week's Spectator magazine is also about charvers. For what it's worth, she
gives the same etymology.

That's where I got it from, and that's what prompted me to visit those
websites.

Post by RobertE
It's something we discuss regularly at my office.

Interesting office!

Post by RobertE
We assumed, though, that the word "charver" was unique to the North
East of England. Seems we were wrong.

Not necessarily. The phenomenon is widespread but most of the words used
to describe it are probably fairly local. (Else why are there so many of
them?) 'Spide', for example, seems to be restricted to Northern Ireland,
and 'senga' to Glasgow.

'Ned' might be the exception but I don't know enough about it to say for
sure.

The original Ratboy was from your part of the world, I think. Does
'ratboy' have a wider usage now? I hadn't encountered it since the
original news stories, but that doesn't mean a great deal.

Post by RobertE
Thanks for the web links. They're quite enlightening.

Did you manage to keep your nedagotchi alive?

[Dave Kenworthy]

"Mickwick" <***@use.reply.to> wrote in message news:***@shropshire.plus.com...
<snip>

Post by Mickwick
The original Ratboy was from your part of the world, I think. Does
'ratboy' have a wider usage now? I hadn't encountered it since the
original news stories, but that doesn't mean a great deal.

I think Viz has done a lot to popularise 'Ratboy' beyond the north east, as
it has for a number of other previously-regional issues (like Ace lager, for
one!)

[Mickwick]

Post by Dave Kenworthy
I think Viz has done a lot to popularise 'Ratboy' beyond the north east, as
it has for a number of other previously-regional issues (like Ace lager, for
one!)

If Urbandictionary.com is a reliable indicator of popularity (which it
probably isn't) then sadly 'ratboy' has yet to make the bigtime. There
are only three definitions, all of them a little odd. For example:

ratboy

A fat kid who DOES NOT know kung fu.

By contrast, there are 139 definitions of 'townie'
89 of 'pikey' (most of them ned-like)
77 of 'charva'/'charver'
51 of 'chav'
31 of 'scally'
13 of 'ned'
8 of 'kev'
6 of 'skanger'
5 of 'janner'
5 of 'stig'
3 of 'spide'
2 of 'steek'
and 1 of 'kappa slapper'

This is quite a phenomenon! I find it fascinating. All of these words
(and an overwhelming majority of the definitions) describe the same male
sub-culture (I forgot to check the definitions of the female equivalents
- 'millie', 'senga' etc.) and they seem to have arisen independently in
different regions. (Even if they share the same etymology, as
'charva'/'charver' and 'chav' may well do.)

And, although often fuelled by the usual Urbandictionary bile, many of
the definitions are uncharacteristically literate. The explanation for
this can be found within the definitions themselves - neds/chavs/charvas
are said to prey on students.

Here are the regions, as far as I can tell:

Townie Everywhere. Particularly associated with
town/gown animosity.

Pikey South Coast of England, where it has shed its
earlier 'gypsy' meaning and now indicates a ned.

Charva/charver North East.

Chav Kent.

Scally Originally Liverpool but widely understood.

Ned Originally Glasgow, then Edinburgh, now current
in parts of England. Several etymologies, all
bogus, apparently.

Kev Claimed as Brummie, but Kevin has long been a
widespread shorthand for 'oikish male'.

Skanger Dublin.

Janner Portsmouth.

Stig Everywhere. From the book 'Stig of the Dump'.

Spide Belfast. (Originally 'Spiderman'.)

Steek Belfast.

Yarco Great Yarmouth - a 'townie' employee of Yarco.
(That's a guess.)


Some highlights (or perhaps not) from Urbandictionary.com:

ned

Irritating guys who throw rocks at buses [...]

(Good luck, Jacqui!)

And:
spide


[...] the troubles in n. Ireland were caused by spides, and
their estates are daubed with paramilitary propaganda such as
"red hand commandos" or "up the provos". English hip- hop hoods
think they are tough, but where i'm from, the spides eat Ali G
wannabes for breakfast and wash it down with a pint of gravel.
beware.

And:
charver

In Polari (1950s gay slang) charver means shag.

I'm going to charver your brains out.

And:
NED

Northeast Dick Head. A person from Northeast Philadelphia who
goes to bars and starts fights, gets wasted and acts like an
idiot

(Oy! Stop nicking our slang!)


Things to look out for:

Acne
Spotless white trainers
Gelled fringes
Tracksuits etc. with *big* logos
Stripey T-shirts (charvas/charvers only, apparently)
Baseball caps worn at an odd angle
Loads of bling bling
'Scars' shaved into eyebrows
Wigga slang (Hi, DE781!)
Anything by Burberry (Royal Warrant granted: 1919)

Things not to say:

Did you know that 'charver' is gay slang?

[Edward]

Mickwick <***@use.reply.to> wrote in message news:<lM0A+***@shropshire.plus.com>...
[...]

Post by Mickwick
This is quite a phenomenon! I find it fascinating. All of these words
(and an overwhelming majority of the definitions) describe the same male
sub-culture (I forgot to check the definitions of the female equivalents
- 'millie', 'senga' etc.) and they seem to have arisen independently in
different regions. (Even if they share the same etymology, as
'charva'/'charver' and 'chav' may well do.)

In this part of thw world (Gloucestershire) 'chav' is used exclusively
to describe girls, immediately identifiable by the Croydon facelift.

Edward

[RobertE]

Post by Edward
In this part of thw world (Gloucestershire) 'chav' is used exclusively
to describe girls, immediately identifiable by the Croydon facelift.

Croydon facelift? That's a new one on me. What it is?

RobertE

[Edward]

Post by RobertE

Post by Edward
In this part of thw world (Gloucestershire) 'chav' is used exclusively
to describe girls, immediately identifiable by the Croydon facelift.

Croydon facelift? That's a new one on me. What it is?
RobertE

A hairstyle where the hair is scraped back so tightly from the face
(often into a hideous topknot, the better to display poorly-dyed split
ends) that it brings into prominence the wearer's cheekbones.

Edward

[RobertE]

Post by Edward

Post by RobertE
Croydon facelift? That's a new one on me. What it is?
RobertE

A hairstyle where the hair is scraped back so tightly from the face
(often into a hideous topknot, the better to display poorly-dyed split
ends) that it brings into prominence the wearer's cheekbones.
Edward

Ah. I see. And the hair no doubt held back with several dozen scrunchies,
often resulting in what looks rather like a palm tree. :-)

Thanks for the definition.

RobertE

[Edward]

Post by RobertE

Post by Edward

Post by RobertE
Croydon facelift? That's a new one on me. What it is?
RobertE

A hairstyle where the hair is scraped back so tightly from the face
(often into a hideous topknot, the better to display poorly-dyed split
ends) that it brings into prominence the wearer's cheekbones.
Edward

Ah. I see. And the hair no doubt held back with several dozen scrunchies,
often resulting in what looks rather like a palm tree. :-)
Thanks for the definition.
RobertE

Yes, a palm tree, that's it.

Edward

[sage]

"Mickwick" <***@use.reply.to> wrote in message news:lM0A+***@shropshire.plus.com...
(Snip)

Post by Mickwick
Janner Portsmouth.
(Snip)
Mickwick

Is this somewhat garbled Royal Naval slang? In the RN, Janners are from
Plymouth and other parts of SW England.

Cheers, Sage

[John Dean]

Post by sage
(Snip)

Post by Mickwick
Janner Portsmouth.
(Snip)
Mickwick

Is this somewhat garbled Royal Naval slang? In the RN, Janners are
from Plymouth and other parts of SW England.
Cheers, Sage

According to Rick Jolly's 'Jackspeak' (ISBN 0 9514305 0 5) 'Jan' or 'Janner'
is an RN nickname for any sailor from the West Country and by extension
anything that originates from Devon or Cornwall.

[sage]

Post by John Dean

Post by sage
(Snip)

Post by Mickwick
Janner Portsmouth.
(Snip)
Mickwick

Is this somewhat garbled Royal Naval slang? In the RN, Janners are
from Plymouth and other parts of SW England.
Cheers, Sage

According to Rick Jolly's 'Jackspeak' (ISBN 0 9514305 0 5) 'Jan' or 'Janner'
is an RN nickname for any sailor from the West Country and by extension
anything that originates from Devon or Cornwall.
--
John Dean
Oxford

Well, er, that's what more or less what I said, dineye?

Cheers, Sage

[John Dean]

Post by sage

Post by John Dean

Post by sage
(Snip)

Post by Mickwick
Janner Portsmouth.
(Snip)
Mickwick

Is this somewhat garbled Royal Naval slang? In the RN, Janners are
from Plymouth and other parts of SW England.
Cheers, Sage

According to Rick Jolly's 'Jackspeak' (ISBN 0 9514305 0 5) 'Jan' or
'Janner' is an RN nickname for any sailor from the West Country and
by extension anything that originates from Devon or Cornwall.
--
John Dean
Oxford

Well, er, that's what more or less what I said, dineye?

I was expanding it un pew. You ditten say what a Janner was. I was also
lending an unnecessary air of spurious authority to your post. No, no, don't
thank me ...

[sage]

Post by John Dean

Post by sage

Post by John Dean

Post by sage
(Snip)

Post by Mickwick
Janner Portsmouth.
(Snip)
Mickwick

Is this somewhat garbled Royal Naval slang? In the RN, Janners are
from Plymouth and other parts of SW England.
Cheers, Sage

According to Rick Jolly's 'Jackspeak' (ISBN 0 9514305 0 5) 'Jan' or
'Janner' is an RN nickname for any sailor from the West Country and
by extension anything that originates from Devon or Cornwall.
--
John Dean
Oxford

Well, er, that's what more or less what I said, dineye?

I was expanding it un pew. You ditten say what a Janner was. I was also
lending an unnecessary air of spurious authority to your post. No, no, don't
thank me ...
--
John Dean
Oxford

Phew: quel relief.

We had a killick of the mess who was called Jan by one and all. We were
based in Plymouth. He came from North Devon. I've no idea what his real
first name was.

Cheers, Sage

[Mickwick]

Post by sage

Post by Mickwick
Janner Portsmouth.

Is this somewhat garbled Royal Naval slang? In the RN, Janners are from
Plymouth and other parts of SW England.

My mistake. I remembered it wrong. Plymouth, not Portsmouth. (And I used
to live in Saltash, so I should know the difference.)

[RobertE]

Post by Mickwick

Post by RobertE
It's something we discuss regularly at my office.

Interesting office!

Yes, well, I'm not native to the North East but most of my colleagues are.
We have a lot of conversations that begin with me saying, "Why is it
that...?" or "Have you noticed that...?" They (my colleagues, that is) then
go on to enlighten me in the ways of Geordiedom. Sort of practical
anthropology, I guess :-)

Post by Mickwick

Post by RobertE
We assumed, though, that the word "charver" was unique to the North
East of England. Seems we were wrong.

Not necessarily. The phenomenon is widespread but most of the words used
to describe it are probably fairly local.

I wonder if charvers (or whatever the local variant might be) are regarded
elsewhere as they are in Newcastle. Here they are more or less universally
despised or ridiculed by those who are not themselves charvers.

BTW, pace Dot Wordsworth, I heard an interesting folk etymology of the word
"charver" a few weeks ago. One of my colleagues said he had heard that it
was a corruption of "chauffeur". In the early 1990s there was a large number
of car thefts by joyriders. Those who stole the cars were chauffeurs because
they were driving other people's cars. Quite witty, as folk etymologies go.

RobertE

[Mickwick]

Post by RobertE
I wonder if charvers (or whatever the local variant might be) are regarded
elsewhere as they are in Newcastle. Here they are more or less universally
despised or ridiculed by those who are not themselves charvers.

Beware! One of those sites said that seven out of eight neds don't
realise that they are neds.

Post by RobertE
BTW, pace Dot Wordsworth, I heard an interesting folk etymology of the word
"charver" a few weeks ago. One of my colleagues said he had heard that it
was a corruption of "chauffeur". In the early 1990s there was a large number
of car thefts by joyriders. Those who stole the cars were chauffeurs because
they were driving other people's cars. Quite witty, as folk etymologies go.

Or true, even. Why not?

This is interesting:

http://www.odps.org/slangc.html

Another trait common to the charva is a loud, slightly
sarcastic, nasal laugh and slow 'can't really be bothered to
talk' speech. Typical slang words that Charvas use are 'belta',
'mint' and 'waxa' all meaning good or great, with the prefix of
'pure' or 'total' this would mean really good. The word charva
has been in common use in the North East since the mid-nineties.

And:

My daughter was bought an Adidas bag which she refused to use
for fear of being called a "Chav".

(There's now a paperback version of The Dictionary of Playground Slang.
£5.59 at Amazon.)

[RobertE]

Post by Mickwick

Post by RobertE

Post by Mickwick
'Chav', by the way, comes from the Sanskrit 'sava' via Polari and
Romany.

Hmm. Charvs (or as they're called in Newcastle, "Charvers") seem to be all
the rage at the moment. Dot Wordsworth's "Mind Your Language" column in this
week's Spectator magazine is also about charvers. For what it's worth, she
gives the same etymology.

That's where I got it from, and that's what prompted me to visit those
websites.

In that same article, Dot said that she asked Veronica (who's her daugher,
btw) the difference between a chav and a pikey. Veronica is quoted as saying
that a pikey is like a "pram-face, really rubbish, eats economy burgers and
oven chips and watches televsion all day" (sorry, I'm quoting from memory,
but that's the jist of it).

Question: what the heck is a "pram-face"? Can anyone define it for me?

Thanks.

RobertE

[John Dean]

Post by RobertE

Post by Mickwick

Post by RobertE

Post by Mickwick
'Chav', by the way, comes from the Sanskrit 'sava' via Polari and
Romany.

Hmm. Charvs (or as they're called in Newcastle, "Charvers") seem to
be all the rage at the moment. Dot Wordsworth's "Mind Your
Language" column in this week's Spectator magazine is also about
charvers. For what it's worth, she gives the same etymology.

That's where I got it from, and that's what prompted me to visit
those websites.

In that same article, Dot said that she asked Veronica (who's her
daugher, btw) the difference between a chav and a pikey. Veronica is
quoted as saying that a pikey is like a "pram-face, really rubbish,
eats economy burgers and oven chips and watches televsion all day"
(sorry, I'm quoting from memory, but that's the jist of it).
Question: what the heck is a "pram-face"? Can anyone define it for me?

A woman with the kind of face you'd expect to see on someone pushing a
pram - by inference an unmarried mother on a council estate - hard-faced and
old before her time. The popular music combo 'Girls Aloud' are reckoned to
be archetypal pram-faces. As are / were Atomic Kitten.
I first encountered the term on the Popbitch website. They will even provide
Pram-face T-shirts to the cognoscenti:
http://www.popbitch.com/tshirts/

[Don Aitken]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 01:04:19 -0000, "John Dean"

Post by John Dean

Post by RobertE
Question: what the heck is a "pram-face"? Can anyone define it for me?

A woman with the kind of face you'd expect to see on someone pushing a
pram - by inference an unmarried mother on a council estate - hard-faced and
old before her time. The popular music combo 'Girls Aloud' are reckoned to
be archetypal pram-faces. As are / were Atomic Kitten.
I first encountered the term on the Popbitch website. They will even provide
http://www.popbitch.com/tshirts/

See the mothers in the park
Ugly creatures, chiefly
Someone must have loved them once
In the dark, and briefly.

Anon.