Food Noise

[occam]

Food Noise - say what?

Listening to a news item on BBC Radio, there was a discussion about new
(anti-)obesity drugs that the UK government is considering making
available on the National Health Service. (That is 'for free', for AmE
posters.)

I had never heard the term before, but it is apparently 'a thing'.

Wiktionary says:

"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise

Is this an excuse to classify over-consumption as an illness, hence
relieving those 'suffering' from any responsibility? What next?

[Hibou]

Post by occam
Food Noise - say what?
Listening to a news item on BBC Radio, there was a discussion about new
(anti-)obesity drugs that the UK government is considering making
available on the National Health Service. (That is 'for free', for AmE
posters.)
I had never heard the term before, but it is apparently 'a thing'.
"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise
Is this an excuse to classify over-consumption as an illness, hence
relieving those 'suffering' from any responsibility? What next?

I understand there are already several medical reasons (or excuses,
depending on one's point of view) invoked for over-eating. It does need
tackling, to reduce the load on the NHS - and the load on the planet,
which can produce only so much food.

Drugs that reduce appetite and the amount eaten are better than those
that prevent absorption, since the latter result in food going to waste
- Orlistat, for instance:

<https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/obesity/treatment/> :
"Orlistat works by preventing around a third of the fat from the food
you eat being absorbed. The undigested fat is not absorbed into your
body and is passed out with your poo."

The NHS is a marvellous institution, but because it's free at the point
of use (in Scotland, even prescriptions are free), it reduces the
incentive for people to look after themselves. The deal is implicit
(perhaps it should be explicit): if you want 'free'¹ healthcare at a
reasonable cost, do what you can to stay healthy - stay slim, have the
vaccines, etc.!

¹We pay for it through taxes, of course.

[occam]

Post by Hibou

Post by occam
Food Noise - say what?
Listening to a news item on BBC Radio, there was a discussion about new
(anti-)obesity drugs that the UK government is considering making
available on the National Health Service. (That is 'for free', for AmE
posters.)
I had never heard the term before, but it is apparently 'a thing'.
"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise
Is this an excuse to classify over-consumption as an illness, hence
relieving those 'suffering' from any responsibility? What next?

I understand there are already several medical reasons (or excuses,
depending on one's point of view) invoked for over-eating. It does need
tackling, to reduce the load on the NHS - and the load on the planet,
which can produce only so much food.
Drugs that reduce appetite and the amount eaten are better than those
that prevent absorption, since the latter result in food going to waste
"Orlistat works by preventing around a third of the fat from the food
you eat being absorbed. The undigested fat is not absorbed into your
body and is passed out with your poo."
The NHS is a marvellous institution, but because it's free at the point
of use (in Scotland, even prescriptions are free), it reduces the
incentive for people to look after themselves. The deal is implicit
(perhaps it should be explicit): if you want 'free'¹ healthcare at a
reasonable cost, do what you can to stay healthy - stay slim, have the
vaccines, etc.!
¹We pay for it through taxes, of course.

ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

[Hibou]

Post by occam

Post by occam
Food Noise - say what?
Listening to a news item on BBC Radio, there was a discussion about new
(anti-)obesity drugs that the UK government is considering making
available on the National Health Service. (That is 'for free', for AmE
posters.)
I had never heard the term before, but it is apparently 'a thing'.
"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise [...]

ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

I suppose one's desired thoughts are signal, and the intrusion is noise,
as in telephony or radio. Fritures sur la ligne, quoi - the sound of
frying bacon. (Yum!)

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by occam

Post by Hibou

Post by occam
Food Noise - say what?
Listening to a news item on BBC Radio, there was a discussion about new
(anti-)obesity drugs that the UK government is considering making
available on the National Health Service. (That is 'for free', for AmE
posters.)
I had never heard the term before, but it is apparently 'a thing'.
"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise
Is this an excuse to classify over-consumption as an illness, hence
relieving those 'suffering' from any responsibility? What next?

I understand there are already several medical reasons (or excuses,
depending on one's point of view) invoked for over-eating. It does need
tackling, to reduce the load on the NHS - and the load on the planet,
which can produce only so much food.
Drugs that reduce appetite and the amount eaten are better than those
that prevent absorption, since the latter result in food going to waste
"Orlistat works by preventing around a third of the fat from the food
you eat being absorbed. The undigested fat is not absorbed into your
body and is passed out with your poo."
The NHS is a marvellous institution, but because it's free at the point
of use (in Scotland, even prescriptions are free), it reduces the
incentive for people to look after themselves. The deal is implicit
(perhaps it should be explicit): if you want 'free'¹ healthcare at a
reasonable cost, do what you can to stay healthy - stay slim, have the
vaccines, etc.!
¹We pay for it through taxes, of course.

ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

I wonder if there is an unstated comparison with Tinnitus?

[Snidely]

Post by occam

Post by Hibou

Post by occam
Food Noise - say what?
Listening to a news item on BBC Radio, there was a discussion about new
(anti-)obesity drugs that the UK government is considering making
available on the National Health Service. (That is 'for free', for AmE
posters.)
I had never heard the term before, but it is apparently 'a thing'.
"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise
Is this an excuse to classify over-consumption as an illness, hence
relieving those 'suffering' from any responsibility? What next?

I understand there are already several medical reasons (or excuses,
depending on one's point of view) invoked for over-eating. It does need
tackling, to reduce the load on the NHS - and the load on the planet,
which can produce only so much food.
Drugs that reduce appetite and the amount eaten are better than those
that prevent absorption, since the latter result in food going to waste
"Orlistat works by preventing around a third of the fat from the food
you eat being absorbed. The undigested fat is not absorbed into your
body and is passed out with your poo."
The NHS is a marvellous institution, but because it's free at the point
of use (in Scotland, even prescriptions are free), it reduces the
incentive for people to look after themselves. The deal is implicit
(perhaps it should be explicit): if you want 'free'¹ healthcare at a
reasonable cost, do what you can to stay healthy - stay slim, have the
vaccines, etc.!

Which is why some organizations have co-pays {1]. My feeling is that
preventive care, such as check-ups and vaccines, should be free, and
that routine treatments should have a co-pay, and then we need to work
out how to deal with major care ... cancer treatments, severe injuries,
etc; Rehab should be in there somewhere.

Post by occam

Post by Hibou
¹We pay for it through taxes, of course.

ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

Because it isn't a proper signal.

[1] not everyone hyphenates "copay"
[2] deux, doh!

/dps

[jerryfriedman]

..

Post by Snidely

Post by Hibou
The NHS is a marvellous institution, but because it's free at the point
of use (in Scotland, even prescriptions are free), it reduces the
incentive for people to look after themselves. The deal is implicit
(perhaps it should be explicit): if you want 'free'¹ healthcare at a
reasonable cost, do what you can to stay healthy - stay slim, have the
vaccines, etc.!

Which is why some organizations have co-pays {1].

..

Post by Snidely
[1] not everyone hyphenates "copay"

..

In my head it's still "copayment".

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[occam]

Post by Snidely

Post by occam
ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

Because it isn't a proper signal.

Emm..., neither is your answer.

[Snidely]

Post by occam

Post by Snidely

Post by occam
ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

Because it isn't a proper signal.

Emm..., neither is your answer.

A signal conveys information. Noise does not. A proper signal would
be that you need nourishment to sustain energy, or to build muscle or
to replenish trace nutrients. Those signals generally start outside of
the brain case.

/dps

[occam]

Post by occam

Post by Snidely

Post by occam
ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

Because it isn't a proper signal.

Emm..., neither is your answer.

A signal conveys information.  Noise does not. 

How come this noise is saying "Eat more food"? (Not exactly tinnitus,
is it?)

[Snidely]

Post by occam

Post by occam

Post by Snidely

Post by occam
ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

Because it isn't a proper signal.

Emm..., neither is your answer.

A signal conveys information.  Noise does not. 

How come this noise is saying "Eat more food"? (Not exactly tinnitus,
is it?)

Do you consider echoes to be signal? Maybe they are, if you don't get
the unechoed signal directly. But in general, you already have the
information, and sorting the signal out from the echo can be messy.

A radio or TV (antenna system included) will produce sound when there
is no signal. True, you have to be really obsessed for that to sound
like "eat food", but suppose your audio system had a bias for capturing
the "oo" or "ea" sound ... it wouldn't take much for you brain to
interpret that as meaningful, and to perhaps reflexively fill in the
rest of the phrase. Not that appetite signals are word-based, but this
is just an analogy, after all, and not a detailed exposé of ganglion
connectivity.

/dps "brains have lots of random nerve firings to provide a noise
floor"

[occam]

Post by occam

Post by Snidely

Post by occam
ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

Because it isn't a proper signal.

Emm..., neither is your answer.

A signal conveys information.  Noise does not. 

How come this noise is saying "Eat more food"? (Not exactly tinnitus,
is it?)

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Snidely

Post by occam

Post by Hibou

Post by occam
Food Noise - say what?
Listening to a news item on BBC Radio, there was a discussion about new
(anti-)obesity drugs that the UK government is considering making
available on the National Health Service. (That is 'for free', for AmE
posters.)
I had never heard the term before, but it is apparently 'a thing'.
"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise
Is this an excuse to classify over-consumption as an illness, hence
relieving those 'suffering' from any responsibility? What next?

I understand there are already several medical reasons (or excuses,
depending on one's point of view) invoked for over-eating. It does need
tackling, to reduce the load on the NHS - and the load on the planet,
which can produce only so much food.
Drugs that reduce appetite and the amount eaten are better than those
that prevent absorption, since the latter result in food going to waste
"Orlistat works by preventing around a third of the fat from the food
you eat being absorbed. The undigested fat is not absorbed into your
body and is passed out with your poo."
The NHS is a marvellous institution, but because it's free at the point
of use (in Scotland, even prescriptions are free), it reduces the
incentive for people to look after themselves. The deal is implicit
(perhaps it should be explicit): if you want 'free'? healthcare at a
reasonable cost, do what you can to stay healthy - stay slim, have the
vaccines, etc.!

Which is why some organizations have co-pays {1]. My feeling is that
preventive care, such as check-ups and vaccines, should be free, and
that routine treatments should have a co-pay, and then we need to work
out how to deal with major care ... cancer treatments, severe injuries,
etc; Rehab should be in there somewhere.

Post by occam

Post by Hibou
?We pay for it through taxes, of course.

ObAUE: It still leaves a glaring question mark over the word 'noise'.
If it is an addiction, or compulsion, or OCD, why call it noise?

Because it isn't a proper signal.
[1] not everyone hyphenates "copay"
[2] deux, doh!

In my case 'food inside' is a very proper signal.
It isn't noise though, it tells me 'go sleep now',
and needs to be ignored,

Jan

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] Drugs that reduce appetite and the amount eaten are better than those
that prevent absorption, since the latter result in food going to waste -

Agreed.

[...] The NHS is a marvellous institution, but because it's free at the
point of use (in Scotland, even prescriptions are free), it reduces the
incentive for people to look after themselves. The deal is implicit (perhaps
it should be explicit): if you want 'free'¹ healthcare at a reasonable cost,
do what you can to stay healthy - stay slim, have the vaccines, etc.!

Many of my patients are happy to pay for GLP-1 agonists out of pocket; the cash
price here is reasonable enough that the substantial reduced outgoings on food
balance it out. The patients are in general not wealthy.

I understand US out of pocket prices are of the order of 1000 USD, so it’s a
different decision over there.

¹We pay for it through taxes, of course.

I had years of well-paid work for the NHS at a time in my life where it made a
big difference, thank you!

[Garrett Wollman]

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Many of my patients are happy to pay for GLP-1 agonists out of pocket; the cash
price here is reasonable enough that the substantial reduced outgoings on food
balance it out. The patients are in general not wealthy.
I understand US out of pocket prices are of the order of 1000 USD, so it’s a
different decision over there.

Many of the older drugs in this family are either off-patent or about
to be. (Tirzepatide, which is slightly newer, still has a few more
years to run.)

It is very common for pharmacy benefit managers to use
a three-tier system: the lowest patient cost for generic medications,
a middle price for "formulary" brand-name medications, and the highest
price for all other brand-name medications. A common tiering might be
$10 for the lowest tier, $25 for the middle, and $50 for the highest
-- typically for a month's supply, but depending on the plan and the
indication, that might be for three months' supply instead.[1]

-GAWollman

[1] On my plan, for reasons I am entirely unable to fathom, a
three-month supply of atorvastatin is free, but a three-month supply
of metformin costs four dollars and change.

[Aidan Kehoe]

Post by Garrett Wollman

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Many of my patients are happy to pay for GLP-1 agonists out of pocket; the
cash price here is reasonable enough that the substantial reduced outgoings
on food balance it out. The patients are in general not wealthy.
I understand US out of pocket prices are of the order of 1000 USD, so
it’s a different decision over there.

Many of the older drugs in this family are either off-patent or about
to be. (Tirzepatide, which is slightly newer, still has a few more
years to run.)

I hope another manufacturer starts marketing exenatide in this market,
AstraZeneca seem to have pulled back. There’s plenty of sales volume to go
around, and there is evidence that the GLP-1 agonists slow progression of
Parkinson’s, and the studies used exenatide in particular. And we’ve very
little that slows progression of Parkinson’s.

Post by Garrett Wollman
It is very common for pharmacy benefit managers to use
a three-tier system: the lowest patient cost for generic medications,
a middle price for "formulary" brand-name medications, and the highest
price for all other brand-name medications. A common tiering might be
$10 for the lowest tier, $25 for the middle, and $50 for the highest
-- typically for a month's supply, but depending on the plan and the
indication, that might be for three months' supply instead.[1]
-GAWollman
[1] On my plan, for reasons I am entirely unable to fathom, a
three-month supply of atorvastatin is free, but a three-month supply
of metformin costs four dollars and change.

Is it extended-release metformin? In the grand scheme of things that’s
relatively new and so it costing a bit more than a non-extended-release
atorvastatin is understandable. If it’s the normal metformin that has been
kicking around for half a century or longer that would be a surprise.

“NHS indicative prices” from the British National Formulary, giving a rough
guide as to what medications cost the taxpayer in Britain currently:

Metformin 500 mg tablets, Almus Pharmaceuticals Ltd, 84 tablet: £ 1.92

Sukkarto SR 750 mg tablets, Morningside Healthcare Ltd (extended-release
metformin), 56 tablets, £ 2.87

Atorvastatin 20 mg tablets, Milpharm Ltd, 28 tablet, £ 0.80

Wegovy FlexTouch 0.25 mg / 0.37 mL (semaglutide weight loss injection), 1
pre-filled disposable injection: £ 73.25

Bydureon 2 mg/0.85 mL, 4 pre-filled disposable injections (exenatide):
£ 73.36.

[Janet]

Post by occam
"Food noise refers to constant thoughts of food that feel like intrusive
chatter rather than periodic hunger cues or desires to eat one thing or
another."

Being hugely under or overweight is *sometimes" the
outward expression of clinical mental disorder. *Some*
mental disorders feature obsessive and intrusive thoughts
are about eating and elimination. Cmpelling the peron to
gorge/ starve/ fast/ purge/ vomit.

Post by occam
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/food_noise
Is this an excuse to classify over-consumption as an illness, hence
relieving those 'suffering' from any responsibility? What next?

No, it's just one example of "intrusive/compulsive
thoughts".You've probably heard of people who constantly
hear "voices in their head" as part of a psychiatric
disorder.


Janet