Discussion:
Patty
(too old to reply)
the Omrud
2018-01-11 11:54:38 UTC
Permalink
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.

The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.

If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they were
because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape of the meat.
--
David
Richard Tobin
2018-01-11 12:07:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.

-- Richard
the Omrud
2018-01-11 12:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers. I wouldn't have
had the faintest idea what it meant before the late 70s.
--
David
Peter Moylan
2018-01-11 12:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers. I wouldn't have
had the faintest idea what it meant before the late 70s.
I think I learnt the word from this newsgroup. Before that, if I had to
describe such a thing, I would have called them rissoles. Admittedly a
proper rissole has more ingredients than just the meat, but that's the
closest I could come.

So what's the story behind the name Peppermint Patty? Is it more than
just a cute nickname?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
the Omrud
2018-01-11 12:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise.  Is it used even now?  I only recall encountering it in
American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers.  I wouldn't have
had the faintest idea what it meant before the late 70s.
I think I learnt the word from this newsgroup. Before that, if I had to
describe such a thing, I would have called them rissoles. Admittedly a
proper rissole has more ingredients than just the meat, but that's the
closest I could come.
To me, a rissole is much thicker, almost spherical. Like a squashed
meatball.
Post by Peter Moylan
So what's the story behind the name Peppermint Patty? Is it more than
just a cute nickname?
I think it's just Shultz reusing the name of the sweet, which is
something children can make at home. Like this:

https://www.momontimeout.com/easy-christmas-peppermint-patties/
--
David
Cheryl
2018-01-11 12:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise.  Is it used even now?  I only recall encountering it in
American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers.  I wouldn't have
had the faintest idea what it meant before the late 70s.
I think I learnt the word from this newsgroup. Before that, if I had to
describe such a thing, I would have called them rissoles. Admittedly a
proper rissole has more ingredients than just the meat, but that's the
closest I could come.
So what's the story behind the name Peppermint Patty? Is it more than
just a cute nickname?
It's a candy, although the name is spelled differently for the character
and the candy.

https://www.hersheys.com/york/en_us/home.html

I rather like them.
--
Cheryl
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-11 13:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise.  Is it used even now?  I only recall encountering it in
American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers.  I wouldn't have
had the faintest idea what it meant before the late 70s.
I think I learnt the word from this newsgroup. Before that, if I had to
describe such a thing, I would have called them rissoles. Admittedly a
proper rissole has more ingredients than just the meat, but that's the
closest I could come.
So what's the story behind the name Peppermint Patty? Is it more than
just a cute nickname?
It's a candy, although the name is spelled differently for the character
and the candy.
https://www.hersheys.com/york/en_us/home.html
I rather like them.
The OED has this:

patty, n.

2.b. A thin, circular sweet {1}, frequently peppermint-flavoured.

1916 Daily Kennebec (Maine) Jrnl. 23 June 3 (advt.) These are
‘Peppermint Patties’. Rich, smooth creams cooled with Peppermint
and wrapped in thick Chocolate coats.
1942 America's Cook Bk. (rev. ed.) 766 Maple, coffee and
chocolate fondants may also be made into patties.
....


{1} That is "a sweet" in the sense of an item of confectionery.
.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Theodore Heise
2018-01-11 13:43:36 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:06:46 -0330,
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in
my English Midlands childhood.? I don't think I'd have
understood what it meant until some time in the 1970s.??
The character of Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing
to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not surprising as
an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise.? Is it used even now?? I only recall encountering
it in American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers.? I
wouldn't have had the faintest idea what it meant before the
late 70s.
I think I learnt the word from this newsgroup. Before that, if
I had to describe such a thing, I would have called them
rissoles. Admittedly a proper rissole has more ingredients
than just the meat, but that's the closest I could come.
So what's the story behind the name Peppermint Patty? Is it
more than just a cute nickname?
It's a candy, although the name is spelled differently for the
character and the candy.
https://www.hersheys.com/york/en_us/home.html
I rather like them.
Yes to both. And then there's this...



Jim Stafford singing "Cow Patti", a term that's slang for cow
feces.
--
Ted Heise <***@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-11 15:06:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:43:36 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise
Post by Theodore Heise
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:06:46 -0330,
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in
my English Midlands childhood.? I don't think I'd have
understood what it meant until some time in the 1970s.??
The character of Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing
to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not surprising as
an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise.? Is it used even now?? I only recall encountering
it in American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers.? I
wouldn't have had the faintest idea what it meant before the
late 70s.
I think I learnt the word from this newsgroup. Before that, if
I had to describe such a thing, I would have called them
rissoles. Admittedly a proper rissole has more ingredients
than just the meat, but that's the closest I could come.
So what's the story behind the name Peppermint Patty? Is it
more than just a cute nickname?
It's a candy, although the name is spelled differently for the
character and the candy.
https://www.hersheys.com/york/en_us/home.html
I rather like them.
Yes to both. And then there's this...
http://youtu.be/oyHDMKoF_zI
Jim Stafford singing "Cow Patti", a term that's slang for cow
feces.
<smile>

The OED has "cow-patty" (AmE quotations) for what in BrE is a "cowpat":
"A flat, round piece of cow dung".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Theodore Heise
2018-01-11 16:58:18 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:06:02 +0000,
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:43:36 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise
Post by Theodore Heise
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:06:46 -0330,
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known
in my English Midlands childhood.? I don't think I'd
have understood what it meant until some time in the
1970s.?? The character of Peppermint Patty in Peanuts
meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty
(not surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a
cute nickname.
Likewise.? Is it used even now?? I only recall
encountering it in American English.
Probably not, but it's now recognised by BrE speakers.? I
wouldn't have had the faintest idea what it meant before
the late 70s.
I think I learnt the word from this newsgroup. Before that,
if I had to describe such a thing, I would have called them
rissoles. Admittedly a proper rissole has more ingredients
than just the meat, but that's the closest I could come.
So what's the story behind the name Peppermint Patty? Is it
more than just a cute nickname?
It's a candy, although the name is spelled differently for
the character and the candy.
https://www.hersheys.com/york/en_us/home.html
I rather like them.
Yes to both. And then there's this...
http://youtu.be/oyHDMKoF_zI
Jim Stafford singing "Cow Patti", a term that's slang for cow
feces.
<smile>
The OED has "cow-patty" (AmE quotations) for what in BrE is a
"cowpat": "A flat, round piece of cow dung".
So if it were in B flat, would it be vanilla? :)
--
Ted Heise <***@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 12:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
It was quite common at one point in Britain to mean a small pie or
pastry and you may still baking pans referred to as patty tins in
some parts of the country. However the usage we're discussing is
wholly American.
Peter Young
2018-01-11 12:34:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
It was quite common at one point in Britain to mean a small pie or
pastry and you may still baking pans referred to as patty tins in
some parts of the country. However the usage we're discussing is
wholly American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Pie_and_the_Patty-Pan


I think I've always known this use of the word patty. However, the
spilling chucker (BrE) didn't know it.

Peter
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Katy Jennison
2018-01-11 15:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
It was quite common at one point in Britain to mean a small pie or
pastry and you may still baking pans referred to as patty tins in
some parts of the country. However the usage we're discussing is
wholly American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Pie_and_the_Patty-Pan
I immediately thought of "The Pie and the Patty-Pan" too. But (for
people unfamiliar with it) this patty-pan isn't a dish in which to cook
a patty or pie: it's the gizmo* which you put in the centre of the dish
to hold up the pie-crust and allow steam to escape. This is not a pie
in which the filling is completely encased in pastry: it's a dish of
whatever with a pastry lid.

Searching for "patty-pan" these days, though, just offers the patty-pan
squash.

*I thought there might be a specific word which was escaping my memory,
but a search just produces terms like "pie funnel" or "pie bird", this
latter referring to the ceramic item like a baby blackbird with its beak
open. The one I was remembering, however, was metal and didn't look
like a bird at all. We also had a plain white ceramic one, equally
unbirdlike.
--
Katy Jennison
LFS
2018-01-11 16:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise.  Is it used even now?  I only recall encountering it in
American English.
It was quite common at one point in Britain to mean a small pie or
pastry and you may still baking pans referred to as patty tins in
some parts of the country. However the usage we're discussing is
wholly American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Pie_and_the_Patty-Pan
I immediately thought of "The Pie and the Patty-Pan" too.  But (for
people unfamiliar with it) this patty-pan isn't a dish in which to cook
a patty or pie: it's the gizmo* which you put in the centre of the dish
to hold up the pie-crust and allow steam to escape.  This is not a pie
in which the filling is completely encased in pastry: it's a dish of
whatever with a pastry lid.
Searching for "patty-pan" these days, though, just offers the patty-pan
squash.
*I thought there might be a specific word which was escaping my memory,
but a search just produces terms like "pie funnel" or "pie bird", this
latter referring to the ceramic item like a baby blackbird with its beak
open.  The one I was remembering, however, was metal and didn't look
like a bird at all.  We also had a plain white ceramic one, equally
unbirdlike.
Somewhere I have a Pyrex one which was my mother's. It was always known
as the pie funnel. I've never used it as I never bake that sort of pie.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Paul Wolff
2018-01-11 16:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Young
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise.  Is it used even now?  I only recall encountering it in
American English.
It was quite common at one point in Britain to mean a small pie or
pastry and you may still baking pans referred to as patty tins in
some parts of the country. However the usage we're discussing is
wholly American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Pie_and_the_Patty-Pan
I immediately thought of "The Pie and the Patty-Pan" too.  But (for
people unfamiliar with it) this patty-pan isn't a dish in which to
cook a patty or pie: it's the gizmo* which you put in the centre of
the dish to hold up the pie-crust and allow steam to escape.  This is
not a pie in which the filling is completely encased in pastry: it's
a dish of whatever with a pastry lid.
Searching for "patty-pan" these days, though, just offers the
patty-pan squash.
*I thought there might be a specific word which was escaping my
memory, but a search just produces terms like "pie funnel" or "pie
bird", this latter referring to the ceramic item like a baby
blackbird with its beak open.  The one I was remembering, however,
was metal and didn't look like a bird at all.  We also had a plain
white ceramic one, equally unbirdlike.
Somewhere I have a Pyrex one which was my mother's. It was always known
as the pie funnel. I've never used it as I never bake that sort of pie.
The Mistress of the Kitchen here volunteered "pie funnel" too.

Actually she said "bird", before I asked for a generic name.
--
Paul
"Django Cat" <>
2018-01-11 21:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Patty
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:02:33 GMT
Lines: 44
Post by Peter Young
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by Peter Young
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what
it meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just
a girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form
of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it
in American English.
It was quite common at one point in Britain to mean a small pie or
pastry and you may still baking pans referred to as patty tins in
some parts of the country. However the usage we're discussing is
wholly American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Pie_and_the_Patty-Pan
I immediately thought of "The Pie and the Patty-Pan" too. But (for
people unfamiliar with it) this patty-pan isn't a dish in which to
cook a patty or pie: it's the gizmo* which you put in the centre of
the dish to hold up the pie-crust and allow steam to escape. This is
not a pie in which the filling is completely encased in pastry: it's
a dish of whatever with a pastry lid.
Searching for "patty-pan" these days, though, just offers the
patty-pan squash.
*I thought there might be a specific word which was escaping my
memory, but a search just produces terms like "pie funnel" or "pie
bird", this latter referring to the ceramic item like a baby
blackbird with its beak open.
We've got one of those! Somewhere....

DC

--
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-11 13:18:11 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 04:18:46 -0800 (PST), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
It was quite common at one point in Britain to mean a small pie or
pastry and you may still baking pans referred to as patty tins in
some parts of the country. However the usage we're discussing is
wholly American.
When I first came across "patty" in the AmE sense I speculated,
humorously, whether it was called that because it was made by
flattening a lump of stuff by patting it.

The pie sense was earliest by more than teo centuries.

OED:

1. A small pie or pasty. Now chiefly Caribbean.
Recorded earliest in pattypan n.
1660 ...

2. Chiefly N. Amer.
Thesaurus »
Categories »

a. A small, flattened cake of chopped or minced food (esp. meat).
1904 ...

When patty met patty:

2003 Atlanta Jrnl. & Constit. (Nexis) 15 Jan. 5 f Those Jamaican
patties caused a few marketing problems at the start, June said.
‘We'd say “beef patty”, and people would think raw ground beef
shaped for a hamburger.’
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-11 12:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
Does spelling count?

Loading Image...
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-11 13:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
My experience too.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 17:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 17:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
They are available here but anything employing American 'chocolate'
tends (rightly) to be treated with suspicion (at best) by the natives. In
any case we have a number of exact equivalents covered in proper
British chocolate. The 'market' is therefore limited to Americans on air
bases and the like who don't yet know any better.
s***@gmail.com
2018-01-11 20:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
They are available here but anything employing American 'chocolate'
tends (rightly) to be treated with suspicion (at best) by the natives. In
any case we have a number of exact equivalents covered in proper
British chocolate. The 'market' is therefore limited to Americans on air
bases and the like who don't yet know any better.
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?

/dps
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 22:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
They are available here but anything employing American 'chocolate'
tends (rightly) to be treated with suspicion (at best) by the natives. In
any case we have a number of exact equivalents covered in proper
British chocolate. The 'market' is therefore limited to Americans on air
bases and the like who don't yet know any better.
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Carob?
Richard Tobin
2018-01-11 22:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Carob?
Yuk.

-- Richard
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 22:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Carob?
Yuk.
Indeed.

I read somewhere a long time ago that Europeans (yes, that includes Brits)
dislike Hershey's Chocolate (the principal US brand) because it's made with
buttermilk, which gives it a different subtlety from whatever Cadbury does.
(In Belgium they claimed that Godiva is so inferior it's only good for export.)
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 23:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Carob?
Yuk.
Indeed.
I read somewhere a long time ago that Europeans (yes, that includes Brits)
dislike Hershey's Chocolate (the principal US brand) because it's made with
buttermilk, which gives it a different subtlety from whatever Cadbury does.
(In Belgium they claimed that Godiva is so inferior it's only good for export.)
We dislike it because it's horrible. We could care less as to the specific
reason for that!
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-12 04:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Carob?
Yuk.
Indeed.
I read somewhere a long time ago that Europeans (yes, that includes Brits)
dislike Hershey's Chocolate (the principal US brand) because it's made with
buttermilk, which gives it a different subtlety from whatever Cadbury does.
(In Belgium they claimed that Godiva is so inferior it's only good for export.)
We dislike it because it's horrible. We could care less as to the specific
reason for that!
Well, you're wrong about that.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-13 13:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Carob?
Yuk.
Indeed.
I read somewhere a long time ago that Europeans (yes, that includes Brits)
dislike Hershey's Chocolate (the principal US brand) because it's made with
buttermilk, which gives it a different subtlety from whatever Cadbury does.
(In Belgium they claimed that Godiva is so inferior it's only good for export.)
We dislike it because it's horrible. We could care less as to the specific
reason for that!
+1
--
athel
Sam Plusnet
2018-01-16 01:52:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by s***@gmail.com
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Carob?
Yuk.
Indeed.
I read somewhere a long time ago that Europeans (yes, that includes Brits)
dislike Hershey's Chocolate (the principal US brand) because it's made with
buttermilk, which gives it a different subtlety from whatever Cadbury does.
(In Belgium they claimed that Godiva is so inferior it's only good for export.)
We dislike it because it's horrible. We could care less as to the specific
reason for that!
+1
The shortcut here would be to invite any UK correspondent who actually
likes the stuff to speak up.
--
Sam Plusnet
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 23:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
They are available here but anything employing American 'chocolate'
tends (rightly) to be treated with suspicion (at best) by the natives. In
any case we have a number of exact equivalents covered in proper
British chocolate. The 'market' is therefore limited to Americans on air
bases and the like who don't yet know any better.
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Praying that I'm dead by the time it happens!
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-13 14:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
They are available here but anything employing American 'chocolate'
tends (rightly) to be treated with suspicion (at best) by the natives. In
any case we have a number of exact equivalents covered in proper
British chocolate. The 'market' is therefore limited to Americans on air
bases and the like who don't yet know any better.
What are you doing to prepare for the extinction of cocoa plants?
Praying that I'm dead by the time it happens!
Cadbury's chocolate is indeed better than Hershey's (big deal: as
you've said, Hershey's is horrible), but it's not the best there is.
When I first encountered chocolate in countries like Belgium and
Germany I was struck by how expensive it was compared with the
chocolate I'd grown up with. I formulated some hypothesis that the UK
had a traditional arrangement with the Gold Coast (now Ghana) whereby
it could import cocoa beans in bulk but Belgium and Germany couldn't.
But that was nonsense; the reason was that chocolate in Belgium and
Germany (not to mention the Netherlands, France, Switzerland and Italy,
but I didn't know about their chocolate in those far-off times)
contains a lot more cocoa butter than most British chocolate does.
Chocolate was as cheap in the USSR as in the UK, but there the inferior
quality was very obvious.
--
athel
the Omrud
2018-01-11 17:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
We have the same items available, but they've always been called called
Peppermint Creams (if they are nude) or Chocolate Peppermint Creams (if
they're enrobed in chocolate). We even have a chocolate bar which is
one long peppermint cream:

https://www.cadburygiftsdirect.co.uk/fry-s-peppermint-cream.html
--
David
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 17:32:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
Likewise. Is it used even now? I only recall encountering it in
American English.
So the York people haven't discovered the British market yet? York Peppermint
Patties (is there any other?) come in different sizes. They are a wafer of a
white, peppermint-flavored sweet substance with a fairly thin (but not friable)
chocolate coating, and they're wrapped in paper that's silver on the outside
and white on the inside. Presumably these days they're further sealed in plastic.
We have the same items available, but they've always been called called
Peppermint Creams (if they are nude) or Chocolate Peppermint Creams (if
they're enrobed in chocolate). We even have a chocolate bar which is
https://www.cadburygiftsdirect.co.uk/fry-s-peppermint-cream.html
We get Cadbury Eggs here, of course. They're really not as nice as York's patties. (I wouldn't be surprised if York now makes egg-shaped ones for
Easter, but I haven't noticed such a thing).
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 17:11:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.

In the US:

A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or candy
has a strong flavor.

A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty", but
may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
Post by Richard Tobin
Likewise. Is it used even now?
In the US? Yes.
Post by Richard Tobin
I only recall encountering it in American English.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 17:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or candy
has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty", but
may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between "Paddy" and "Patty.")
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Richard Tobin
Likewise. Is it used even now?
In the US? Yes.
Post by Richard Tobin
I only recall encountering it in American English.
"Django Cat" <>
2018-01-11 21:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or
otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it
meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a
girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of
Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.
Nothing to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called
because it is patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or
candy has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty",
but may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between "Paddy" and "Patty.")
This particular Brit's never given that point an instant's thought, but
thanks for letting us know.

DC

--
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 22:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Django Cat" <>
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it
meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a
girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of
Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.
Nothing to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called
because it is patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or
candy has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty",
but may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between "Paddy" and "Patty.")
This particular Brit's never given that point an instant's thought, but
thanks for letting us know.
It's been a constant theme here during the years you were away.
"Django Cat" <>
2018-01-12 00:17:53 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 4:34:06 PM UTC-5,
Post by "Django Cat" <>
Post by Peter T. Daniels
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:07:50 +0000 (UTC),
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what
it meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was
just a girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate
form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.
Nothing to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called
because it is patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the
candy name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint
mint or candy has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called
"Patty", but may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between
"Paddy" and "Patty.")
This particular Brit's never given that point an instant's thought,
but thanks for letting us know.
It's been a constant theme here during the years you were away.
Dammit, I've missed out...

DC

--
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-12 11:54:33 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:06:21 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by "Django Cat" <>
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it
meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a
girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of
Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.
Nothing to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called
because it is patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or
candy has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty",
but may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between
"Paddy" and "Patty.")
This particular Brit's never given that point an instant's thought, but
thanks for letting us know.
It's been a constant theme here during the years you were away.
I think you are mistaken. It about what Brits hear in American speech.
The comment, complaint, is that Americans pronounce "Patty" as "Paddy".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-12 13:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:06:21 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by "Django Cat" <>
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it
meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a
girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of
Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.
Nothing to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called
because it is patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or
candy has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty",
but may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between
"Paddy" and "Patty.")
This particular Brit's never given that point an instant's thought, but
thanks for letting us know.
It's been a constant theme here during the years you were away.
I think you are mistaken. It about what Brits hear in American speech.
The comment, complaint, is that Americans pronounce "Patty" as "Paddy".
How, then, do they think Americans pronounce "Paddy"? If the same, then they
think we can't hear/make* a difference. If not the same, then how?

Yes, when dealing with phonemes, hearing and making the difference are equivalent.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-12 19:34:00 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 05:39:54 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:06:21 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by "Django Cat" <>
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it
meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a
girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of
Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.
Nothing to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called
because it is patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or
candy has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty",
but may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between
"Paddy" and "Patty.")
This particular Brit's never given that point an instant's thought, but
thanks for letting us know.
It's been a constant theme here during the years you were away.
I think you are mistaken. It about what Brits hear in American speech.
The comment, complaint, is that Americans pronounce "Patty" as "Paddy".
How, then, do they think Americans pronounce "Paddy"? If the same, then they
think we can't hear/make* a difference. If not the same, then how?
Brits may not think as far ahead as that. The point is simply that to
them the American pronunciation of "patty" sounds like "paddy".

Some Brits say "patty" with a glo'al stop: "pa'y" which might cause
confusion worldwide.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Yes, when dealing with phonemes, hearing and making the difference are equivalent.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
David Kleinecke
2018-01-12 20:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 05:39:54 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:06:21 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by "Django Cat" <>
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or
otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English
Post by the Omrud
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it
meant until some time in the 1970s. The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a
girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of
Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.
Nothing to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called
because it is patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or
candy has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty",
but may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
(Remember, Brits think Americans can't hear a difference between
"Paddy" and "Patty.")
This particular Brit's never given that point an instant's thought, but
thanks for letting us know.
It's been a constant theme here during the years you were away.
I think you are mistaken. It about what Brits hear in American speech.
The comment, complaint, is that Americans pronounce "Patty" as "Paddy".
How, then, do they think Americans pronounce "Paddy"? If the same, then they
think we can't hear/make* a difference. If not the same, then how?
Brits may not think as far ahead as that. The point is simply that to
them the American pronunciation of "patty" sounds like "paddy".
Some Brits say "patty" with a glo'al stop: "pa'y" which might cause
confusion worldwide.
In my USEn I wouldn't say "pa'y" but I probably would say
"bat'l" or "bot'l". That is, I usually have a glottal stop
in final "tl". "tm", "tn" and "tr" but not in "-ty". I think
the crux here is the difference between a syllabic (?) liquid
and a full-fledged vowel.
Cheryl
2018-01-11 17:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
A girl with the name of "Patricia" may be known as "Patty". The
"Peppermint" part of the Peanuts character just refers to her
personality and takes advantage of the alliteration and the candy
name. She has strong personality just like a peppermint mint or candy
has a strong flavor.
A boy with the name of "Patrick" isn't going to be called "Patty", but
may be a "Paddy" or a "Pat".
I'm sure I've encountered a Patrick or two nicknamed Patty. Not recently
and not often - perhaps among local men of the same generation as the
ones named Aloysius and called Aly. That is, dead of old age by now. My
grandfathers, or, at the latest, my father's generation Google seems to
treat "Patty" as an offensive error.
--
Cheryl
Jerry Friedman
2018-01-11 20:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
...

The dictionaries think it comes from "pâté" and is related to "paste".
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2018-01-13 06:20:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
...
The dictionaries think it comes from "pâté" and is related to "paste".
Or pastry?

Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man,
Bake me a cake, as fast as you can

It seems likely that that poem comes from before the invention of
rolling pins.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Tony Cooper
2018-01-13 06:45:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:20:28 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
...
The dictionaries think it comes from "pâté" and is related to "paste".
Or pastry?
Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man,
Bake me a cake, as fast as you can
It seems likely that that poem comes from before the invention of
rolling pins.
When my grandmother made her own pie crust, the dough started out as a
big lump. She'd roll that in flour and pound - or pat - it to a more
flattened shape. It was only after the lump had been pounded or
patted almost flat that she started on it with a rolling pin.

Cakes, though, didn't start out as a lump and were never subjected to
a rolling pin.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-13 12:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
...
The dictionaries think it comes from "pâté" and is related to "paste".
Or pastry?
Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man,
Bake me a cake, as fast as you can
It seems likely that that poem comes from before the invention of
rolling pins.
--
Was there ever such a time? We certainly know that they were
in common use by 1600. The earliest extant version of the rhyme
meanwhile dates from 1698.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-13 13:22:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:20:28 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage. Nothing
to do with the "meat patty". A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
...
The dictionaries think it comes from "pâté" and is related to "paste".
Or pastry?
Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man,
Bake me a cake, as fast as you can
It seems likely that that poem comes from before the invention of
rolling pins.
Its the other way round.
The earliest quotation in the OED for "rolling pin" is from 1536. [1]
The earliest for the poem is 1698.


OED:

pat-a-cake, v.

Origin: Formed within English, by conversion. Etymon: pat-a-cake n.
Etymology: < pat-a-cake n.

1. trans. To pat (a hand) with another in a game of pat-a-cake:
to hit or pat gently;
to move or shape by patting (also fig.).
Also intr.: to pat one's hands against a surface.

[1867 W. S. Gilbert Harlequin, Cock-robin & Jenny Wren iv
Pat-a-cake-a-cake-ing Pie prepare for baking.]
....
1984 Time Mag. (Nexis) 26 Mar. 67 Reagan uses anecdotes to great
political effect in his speeches, pat-a-caking them into neat,
sugar-coated homilies.
....

pat-a-cake, n.

Etymology: < pat v.1 + a adj. + cake n.
A common form of the rhyme is: ‘Pat a cake, pat a cake, baker's
man! Bake me a cake as fast as you can, Pat it and prick it, and
mark it with [B], And put it in the oven for [Baby] and me!’ (see
quot. 1698 at pat v.1 3a).

A children's game in which two participants pat or clap one
another's hands (or a baby's hands are patted) to the rhythm of an
accompanying nursery rhyme; the nursery rhyme that accompanies this
game. Also: (fig.) a thing that is very easy; child's play. Cf.
patty-cake n.

[1867 W. S. Gilbert Harlequin, Cock-robin & Jenny Wren iv
Pat-a-cake-a-cake-ing Pie prepare for baking.]
1871 E. E. Hale How to do it 234 But if you will take his little
plump hand and ‘pat a cake’ it on yours.
....

pat, v.1

3. trans.
a. To strike (something) lightly with the hand or a flat surface, so
as to flatten, smooth, shape, or rearrange; to flatten down in
such a way.

1698 T. D'Urfey Campaigners 19 Pat a cake pat a cake Bakers man,
so I will master as I can.

[1] The first, now obsolete, sense of "rolling pin" was:

A cylindrical piece of wood around which a banner may be rolled to
prevent creasing. Obs.

1497–8 in W. M. Williams Ann. Worshipful Company Founders (1867)
47 Paid for iij Baners... Item..for a cofyn & a rollynt pin for
the same Baners, xx d.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
2018-01-13 17:23:07 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
The "Patty" name for a person is a completely different usage.  Nothing
to do with the "meat patty".  A meat patty is so-called because it is
patted flat by the cook's hand.
...
The dictionaries think it comes from "pâté" and is related to "paste".
Or pastry?
Inclusive "or".
Post by Peter Moylan
    Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man,
    Bake me a cake, as fast as you can
Always "pattycake" in my American experience. I'm surprised to see how
common "pat-a-cake" is in American books.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=pattycake%2Cpatty+cake%2Cpatty-cake%2Cpat+a+cake%2Cpat-a-cake&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=17&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cpattycake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cpatty%20cake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cpatty%20-%20cake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cpat%20a%20cake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cpat%20-%20a%20-%20cake%3B%2Cc0

https://tinyurl.com/y9vwdp6j

Next: "piggyback" and "cattycorner".
Post by Peter Moylan
It seems likely that that poem comes from before the invention of
rolling pins.
Maybe it was pâte à cake.

(Ha ha only kidding. I saw Peter Duncanson's post.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-11 12:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s. The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they were
because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape of the meat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_melt

Patty melts are popular and sold in many restaurants. Denny's always
has them on the menu.
RH Draney
2018-01-11 18:48:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they were
because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape of the meat.
Sorry to hear that...calls for a novelty song break:



I have a 45 rpm record of this song that I found at an Army surplus
store back in the '70s....r
Don Phillipson
2018-01-11 14:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood. . .
This may be because English cooks had already adopted (from French)
the word rissole (very familiar in wartime, probably earlier too..)
Post by the Omrud
The character of Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was
just a girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of Pat)
with a cute nickname.
Pat and Patty (short for Patricia) were familiar English usage early in
the 20th century (long before the US patty reached those shores.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Sam Plusnet
2018-01-16 01:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they were
because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape of the meat.
Nursery rhymes tend to hang onto words and phrases long after they've
vanished from contemporary use, but what about

"Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man"

(pattycake in some versions)
--
Sam Plusnet
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-16 11:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they were
because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape of the meat.
Nursery rhymes tend to hang onto words and phrases long after they've
vanished from contemporary use, but what about
"Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man"
(pattycake in some versions)
Already dealt with at some length. Do keep up!
Snidely
2018-01-16 16:37:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they were
because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape of the meat.
Nursery rhymes tend to hang onto words and phrases long after they've
vanished from contemporary use, but what about
"Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man"
(pattycake in some versions)
Already dealt with at some length. Do keep up!
"Up" is in t'other thread.

/dps
--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm
Sam Plusnet
2018-01-19 00:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my English
Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood what it meant
until some time in the 1970s.   The character of Peppermint Patty in
Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a girl called Patty (not
surprising as an affectionate form of Pat) with a cute nickname.
If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they were
because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape of the meat.
Nursery rhymes tend to hang onto words and phrases long after they've
vanished from contemporary use, but what about
"Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man"
(pattycake in some versions)
Already dealt with at some length. Do keep up!
(backlog 567 posts and it's gaining on me)
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-01-29 11:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by the Omrud
A discussion elsethread has turned to sausages, patty or otherwise.
The <flattened, edible> sense of "patty" was not known in my
English Midlands childhood.  I don't think I'd have understood
what it meant until some time in the 1970s.   The character of
Peppermint Patty in Peanuts meant nothing to me - it was just a
girl called Patty (not surprising as an affectionate form of Pat)
with a cute nickname.
If we saw beefburgers, which we didn't (although we knew what they
were because we read Popeye), we didn't have a name for the shape
of the meat.
Nursery rhymes tend to hang onto words and phrases long after
they've vanished from contemporary use, but what about
"Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man"
(pattycake in some versions)
Already dealt with at some length. Do keep up!
(backlog 567 posts and it's gaining on me)
Wait for me!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Loading...