Discussion:
Sister
Add Reply
occam
2024-11-10 23:23:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In BrE 'Sister' is a form of address for nurses in hospitals and
elsewhere. (It is also the term used to address R-C nuns.)

In the old days, when nursing was a predominantly a female occupation,
shouting 'Sister!' could summon any nurse within hearing range.

What is the term for a male nurse whose name you don't know? Not
'Brother' surely?
LionelEdwards
2024-11-11 00:01:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
In BrE 'Sister' is a form of address for nurses in hospitals and
elsewhere. (It is also the term used to address R-C nuns.)
In the old days, when nursing was a predominantly a female occupation,
shouting 'Sister!' could summon any nurse within hearing range.
What is the term for a male nurse whose name you don't know? Not
'Brother' surely?
It has been "charge nurse" for fifty or sixty years. Nowadays
"ward manager" seems to be a preferred term for both sexes.

Ooh Matron!
Aidan Kehoe
2024-11-11 06:43:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
In BrE 'Sister' is a form of address for nurses in hospitals and
elsewhere. (It is also the term used to address R-C nuns.)
In the old days, when nursing was a predominantly a female occupation,
shouting 'Sister!' could summon any nurse within hearing range.
What is the term for a male nurse whose name you don't know? Not
'Brother' surely?
Well, you can still use “sister” if you want to irritate him. “Nurse” will also
work.

I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south, “sister” is
mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the ward that day.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
charles
2024-11-11 08:45:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
In BrE 'Sister' is a form of address for nurses in hospitals and
elsewhere. (It is also the term used to address R-C nuns.)
In the old days, when nursing was a predominantly a female occupation,
shouting 'Sister!' could summon any nurse within hearing range.
What is the term for a male nurse whose name you don't know? Not
'Brother' surely?
Well, you can still use ”sister• if you want to irritate him. ”Nurse•
will also work.
I can‘t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south,
”sister• is mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the ward
that day.
and 'matron' and 'patron' have entirely different meanings
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Bertel Lund Hansen
2024-11-11 09:19:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
and 'matron' and 'patron' have entirely different meanings
In Danish you put a patron in your gun. You can't put a matron since
"matrone" means a huge or dominating woman.
--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark
Chris Elvidge
2024-11-11 12:39:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Post by charles
and 'matron' and 'patron' have entirely different meanings
In Danish you put a patron in your gun. You can't put a matron since
"matrone" means a huge or dominating woman.
Hattie Jacques in Carry On Nurse?
--
Chris Elvidge, England
I AM NOT A DENTIST
Silvano
2024-11-11 09:23:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south, “sister” is
mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the ward that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
Peter Moylan
2024-11-11 11:25:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south, “sister” is
mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the ward that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
In Australia you call him or her the NUM. The acronym stands for Nursing
Unit Manager.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
Aidan Kehoe
2024-11-11 11:29:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south,
“sister” is mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the ward
that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
Usually his name. “Jason, are you the boss here today?” “Yep.” “Can we arrange
a blue-light ambulance to Altnagelvin for the gentleman in bed 4, he’s got a
STEMI on his ECG and Coronary Care have accepted him.”
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
jerryfriedman
2024-11-11 15:40:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south,
“sister” is mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the
ward
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
Usually his name. “Jason, are you the boss here today?” “Yep.” “Can we arrange
a blue-light ambulance to Altnagelvin for the gentleman in bed 4, he’s got a
STEMI on his ECG and Coronary Care have accepted him.”
And what does the patient who doesn't know his name call
him? I'm going to guess that Jason wouldn't really mind
being called "brother", maybe unless a patient or patient's
relative were irritating him in some other way.

That's an interesting system, by the way. I guess it's
only a slight inconvenience, as above, not to know who
the boss is that day?

--
Jerry Friedman

--
LionelEdwards
2024-11-11 15:58:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south,
“sister” is mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the
ward
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
Usually his name. “Jason, are you the boss here today?” “Yep.” “Can we arrange
a blue-light ambulance to Altnagelvin for the gentleman in bed 4, he’s got a
STEMI on his ECG and Coronary Care have accepted him.”
And what does the patient who doesn't know his name call
him? I'm going to guess that Jason wouldn't really mind
being called "brother", maybe unless a patient or patient's
relative were irritating him in some other way.
That's an interesting system, by the way. I guess it's
only a slight inconvenience, as above, not to know who
the boss is that day?
When I worked in the NHS, each ward had two sisters (or
charge nurses) working full-time, one for the morning and
one for the afternoon shift - so you'd usually know who
the boss was on any given day. I don't know how the night
shifts functioned.

Other senior staff could be drafted in to provide cover.
You might often get very senior people from other hospitals,
working under sisters and charge nurses who they outranked -
doing that to earn a bit of overtime.
Aidan Kehoe
2024-11-11 17:56:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south,
“sister” is mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the
ward that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
Usually his name. “Jason, are you the boss here today?” “Yep.” “Can we
arrange a blue-light ambulance to Altnagelvin for the gentleman in bed 4,
he’s got a STEMI on his ECG and Coronary Care have accepted him.”
And what does the patient who doesn't know his name call
him? I'm going to guess that Jason wouldn't really mind
being called "brother", maybe unless a patient or patient's
relative were irritating him in some other way.
“Nurse,” usually. I don’t think I’ve ever come across a situation where the
patient has cared who the nurse in charge is, beyond his or her function as a
nurse.
Post by jerryfriedman
That's an interesting system, by the way. I guess it's
only a slight inconvenience, as above, not to know who
the boss is that day?
Well, the nurses know it from the nursing handover meeting, and it’s their
hierarchy. It’s often not relevant to me, e.g. if it’s a day shift and there is
enough medical manpower to be had that I’m just seeing minors, the sprained
ankles and the scalp lacerations, where it is not common to need admission or
transfer. Though most of my ED work over the last few years has been nights,
when there’s less medical manpower and so more of a mix of acuity for those
working.

I’ll know (and care) who the consultant on call is (ED consultants are usually
on call from home over here, a different model from the US), because that’s my
hierarchy.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
jerryfriedman
2024-11-11 18:28:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and
south,
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
“sister” is mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of
the
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
ward that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
Usually his name. “Jason, are you the boss here today?” “Yep.” “Can
we
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Aidan Kehoe
arrange a blue-light ambulance to Altnagelvin for the gentleman in
bed 4,
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Aidan Kehoe
he’s got a STEMI on his ECG and Coronary Care have accepted him.”
And what does the patient who doesn't know his name call
him? I'm going to guess that Jason wouldn't really mind
being called "brother", maybe unless a patient or patient's
relative were irritating him in some other way.
“Nurse,” usually. I don’t think I’ve ever come across a situation where
the patient has cared who the nurse in charge is, beyond his or her
function
as a nurse.
I hope that means that in Irish hospitals, patients or
their family members don't have to demand to see the
charge nurse to get prescribed pills delivered,
instructions on the chart followed, etc., as sometimes
happens in a country some megameters to the west by
southwest of you.
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Post by jerryfriedman
That's an interesting system, by the way. I guess it's
only a slight inconvenience, as above, not to know who
the boss is that day?
Well, the nurses know it from the nursing handover meeting, and it’s their
hierarchy. It’s often not relevant to me, e.g. if it’s a day shift and there is
enough medical manpower to be had that I’m just seeing minors, the sprained
ankles and the scalp lacerations, where it is not common to need admission or
transfer. Though most of my ED work over the last few years has been nights,
when there’s less medical manpower and so more of a mix of acuity for
those working.
Thanks. That sense of "acuity" is new to me, by the way. I
might say "acuteness".
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I’ll know (and care) who the consultant on call is (ED consultants are usually
on call from home over here, a different model from the US), because
that’s my hierarchy.
ED is Emergency Department?

--
Jerry Friedman

--
Aidan Kehoe
2024-11-11 20:18:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
[...] I don’t think I’ve ever come across a situation where the patient
has cared who the nurse in charge is, beyond his or her function as a
nurse.
I hope that means that in Irish hospitals, patients or
their family members don't have to demand to see the
charge nurse to get prescribed pills delivered,
instructions on the chart followed, etc., as sometimes
happens in a country some megameters to the west by
southwest of you.
The above things happen, usually because there isn’t the staff on-shift to do
the work to be done, which means getting hold of someone to complain to is also
difficult, since they’re all busy doing things.

I haven’t worked on an inpatient ward since 2017 and don’t intend to ever
again, so that may be part of it. (Though I did it plenty 2012-2017.) My main
contact with nurses who are not employed by me is in my Emergency Department
work, which tends to have better nurses than on the ward. Since there is plenty
of ward work, less acuity in that work, and the pay is the same, ED nurses
self-select for those with an appetite for more work.
Post by jerryfriedman
[...] Though most of my ED work over the last few years has been nights,
when there’s less medical manpower and so more of a mix of acuity for
those working.
Thanks. That sense of "acuity" is new to me, by the way. I
might say "acuteness".
I don’t think it’s un-North-American, cf
https://bestpracticemedicine.com/education/halo , offering training in
high-acuity low occurrence procedures from Bozeman, Montana and Reno, Nevada,
and the results at
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%28acuity%29+NOT+%28visual%29 , heavy on
US affiliations among the authors.
Post by jerryfriedman
I’ll know (and care) who the consultant on call is (ED consultants are
usually on call from home over here, a different model from the US),
because that’s my hierarchy.
ED is Emergency Department?
Right.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
Tony Cooper
2024-11-12 00:03:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by jerryfriedman
Post by Silvano
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south,
“sister” is mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the
ward that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
Usually his name. “Jason, are you the boss here today?” “Yep.” “Can we
arrange a blue-light ambulance to Altnagelvin for the gentleman in bed 4,
he’s got a STEMI on his ECG and Coronary Care have accepted him.”
And what does the patient who doesn't know his name call
him? I'm going to guess that Jason wouldn't really mind
being called "brother", maybe unless a patient or patient's
relative were irritating him in some other way.
“Nurse,” usually. I don’t think I’ve ever come across a situation where the
patient has cared who the nurse in charge is, beyond his or her function as a
nurse.
Post by jerryfriedman
That's an interesting system, by the way. I guess it's
only a slight inconvenience, as above, not to know who
the boss is that day?
Speaking as one who has been a patient and with a patient:

The nurse who attends the patient comes in the room when the patient
is first brought to the room and introduces him/herself. At the
change of shifts, the nurse taking over comes to the room - often
accompanied by the nurse going off-shift - and introduces him/herself.

Further, most hospitals will have a whiteboard on the wall of the room
that lists the name of the nurse, and the aide, currently responsible
for that patient. The nurse and the aide will erase the past times
and add the new time at each visit.

The whiteboard will list the name of the staff doctor on that shift
and some other patient data and instructions.

What some are calling the "charge nurse" is rarely seen by the
patient. That person is in charge of all the nurses and aides in the
group that attends the patients in that wing/ward/floor* or whatever
is involved. That's primarily an administrative role, but he/she acts
in a medical role if the occasion demands.

My wife was a charge nurse for a short time in a hospital. She hated
it! There's little patient contact, no real nursing duties, and a lot
of forms and reports to keep up with. She was forced into the job
because she was a BSN, no other BSN was available, and that particular
hospital required a BSN for the position.
Well, the nurses know it from the nursing handover meeting, and it’s their
hierarchy. It’s often not relevant to me, e.g. if it’s a day shift and there is
enough medical manpower to be had that I’m just seeing minors, the sprained
ankles and the scalp lacerations, where it is not common to need admission or
transfer. Though most of my ED work over the last few years has been nights,
when there’s less medical manpower and so more of a mix of acuity for those
working.
I’ll know (and care) who the consultant on call is (ED consultants are usually
on call from home over here, a different model from the US), because that’s my
hierarchy.
Aidan Kehoe
2024-11-12 06:16:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[...] My wife was a charge nurse for a short time in a hospital. She hated
it! There's little patient contact, no real nursing duties, and a lot of
forms and reports to keep up with. She was forced into the job because she
was a BSN, no other BSN was available, and that particular hospital required
a BSN for the position.
So, that’s a different dynamic to practice here, the charge nurse will cover
other nurses’ breaks and deal with difficult patients. She usually has partial
or sole responsibility for the “off-duty,” the work rota, which is always an
unpleasant and thankless job.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
Tony Cooper
2024-11-12 15:22:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[...] My wife was a charge nurse for a short time in a hospital. She hated
it! There's little patient contact, no real nursing duties, and a lot of
forms and reports to keep up with. She was forced into the job because she
was a BSN, no other BSN was available, and that particular hospital required
a BSN for the position.
So, that’s a different dynamic to practice here, the charge nurse will cover
other nurses’ breaks and deal with difficult patients. She usually has partial
or sole responsibility for the “off-duty,” the work rota, which is always an
unpleasant and thankless job.
Dealing with "difficult patients" and covering on breaks is included
in my (snipped) comment "...but he/she acts in a medical role if the
occasion demands."

Determining the "work rota" is part of the administrative side of the
job.

I don't know what the "off-duty" role is. To me, "off-duty" means the
person is not scheduled to work at the time.
Aidan Kehoe
2024-11-13 09:50:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
[...] So, that’s a different dynamic to practice here, the charge nurse
will cover other nurses’ breaks and deal with difficult patients. She
usually has partial or sole responsibility for the “off-duty,” the work
rota, which is always an unpleasant and thankless job.
Dealing with "difficult patients" and covering on breaks is included
in my (snipped) comment "...but he/she acts in a medical role if the
occasion demands."
OK. For me it is a fairly core part of the charge nurse’s job.
Post by Tony Cooper
Determining the "work rota" is part of the administrative side of the
job.
I don't know what the "off-duty" role is. To me, "off-duty" means the
person is not scheduled to work at the time.
It’s what the nurses locally call the work rota. I put it in quotation marks
because in other contexts what it means to you is what it means to me.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
Bertel Lund Hansen
2024-11-11 11:52:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I can’t speak for usage in Britain but in Ireland, north and south, “sister” is
mostly limited to the CNM, the nurse in charge of the ward that day.
Also if that nurse is a man? If not, what do you call him?
In Denmark the female word "sygeplejerske" applies to both sexes. I
wouldn't use it in conversation with them. If I don't know their name, I
avoid calling them anything. I can get help from a hospital bed by
pulling a string.
--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark
Janet
2024-11-11 13:29:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
In BrE 'Sister' is a form of address for nurses in hospitals and
elsewhere. (It is also the term used to address R-C nuns.)
In the old days, when nursing was a predominantly a female occupation,
shouting 'Sister!' could summon any nurse within hearing range.
What is the term for a male nurse whose name you don't know? Not
'Brother' surely?
In UK, "Sister" is a promoted post in Nursing denoting
responsibility for a ward of patients (and managing other
nursing staff)

male-nurse equivalent of Sister is "senior charge
nurse".

Janet
Loading...