picture or pictures?

[Hase]

Please read the following sentences.

One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an award.
Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook his hand.

In the second sentence, should *his pictures* be replaced by *his
picture*, a singular form?
Someone told me that, in a case like this, no matter how many pictures
the reporters take, it should be singular.
What do you think?
And, if possible, tell me why.

Hase

[meirman]

Post by Hase
Please read the following sentences.
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an award.
Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook his hand.
In the second sentence, should *his pictures* be replaced by *his
picture*, a singular form?
Someone told me that, in a case like this, no matter how many pictures
the reporters take, it should be singular.
What do you think?
And, if possible, tell me why.

I think someone is right. It's an idiom. And it isn't necessary to
say pictures because the days of the 6-man camera are gone. If there
are 6 reporters taking pictures**, they're going to take six pictures,
or more.

It would be ok to say, Reporters took pictures of him.

**You might ask, how come the reporters can take pictures, but they
can't take his pictures. "take his picture" is an idiom that only
exists in the singular.

Post by Hase
Hase

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.

Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 17 years

[Skitt]

Post by Hase
Please read the following sentences.
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an award.
Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook his hand.
In the second sentence, should *his pictures* be replaced by *his
picture*, a singular form?
Someone told me that, in a case like this, no matter how many pictures
the reporters take, it should be singular.
What do you think?
And, if possible, tell me why.

I feel that "his picture" is better. The other option would be "took
pictures" without the "his".

There's another thing -- I read quickly, and on first pass I interpret what
is written fairly literally, thus, the first sentence having established the
school principal as the primary subject, at first I thought that the
picturea and hand-shaking referred to him, not Lee.

Others may not have read that into it, but it threw me for just a second, or
two.

[J. W. Love]

Post by Hase
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an
award. Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook
his hand.

Cut "school"; the context will have established that he's the principal of a
school, not, say, of a violin section.

For "gave," consider "presented . . . with"; "gave" could merely refer to the
moment the principal decided to sign a memo setting in motion the paperwork
necessary for Lee to receive the award.

Ordinarily, reporters take notes; photographers take pictures.

The idiom is "took his picture"; or you could say "took pictures of him."

The identity of "his" is uncertain. Is he Lee or the principal? "One week
later, the principal presented Lee Vang with an award, photographers took his
picture, and the mayor shook his hand." Maybe that structure helps keep the
focus on Lee. Or maybe not.

[Stan R]

Post by J. W. Love

Post by Hase
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an
award. Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook
his hand.

Cut "school"; the context will have established that he's the
principal of a school, not, say, of a violin section.
For "gave," consider "presented . . . with"; "gave" could merely
refer to the moment the principal decided to sign a memo setting in
motion the paperwork necessary for Lee to receive the award.
Ordinarily, reporters take notes; photographers take pictures.
The idiom is "took his picture"; or you could say "took pictures of him."

Perhaps even better would be to use "photograph" as a verb. Clears up all
this mess.

Post by J. W. Love
The identity of "his" is uncertain. Is he Lee or the principal? "One
week later, the principal presented Lee Vang with an award,
photographers took his picture, and the mayor shook his hand." Maybe
that structure helps keep the focus on Lee. Or maybe not.

[CyberCypher]

Post by Stan R

Post by J. W. Love

Post by Hase
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an
award. Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook
his hand.

Cut "school"; the context will have established that he's the
principal of a school, not, say, of a violin section.
For "gave," consider "presented . . . with"; "gave" could merely
refer to the moment the principal decided to sign a memo setting
in motion the paperwork necessary for Lee to receive the award.
Ordinarily, reporters take notes; photographers take pictures.
The idiom is "took his picture"; or you could say "took pictures of him."

Perhaps even better would be to use "photograph" as a verb. Clears
up all this mess.

It doesn't seem to me that "photographed him" is particularly
idiomatic English (AmE, anyway), especially when talking about
newspaper stories. I've used the verb before, of course, but not as
often as the expression "took this (picture)".

[Eric Walker]

Post by Hase
Please read the following sentences.
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an award.
Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook his hand.
In the second sentence, should *his pictures* be replaced by
*his picture*, a singular form? Someone told me that, in a
case like this, no matter how many pictures the reporters
take, it should be singular. What do you think? And, if
possible, tell me why.

The sentence definitely wants the singular "picture".

In contexts like this, the phrase "his picture" is roughly
equivalent to "his image"--that is, how he looks, something
that is felt to be unique, no matter how many slightly
different views of it photographers can capture. One would not
write "The artists captured the images of the king" when
speaking of one king, one person, for we conceive of him as
having one image: one person, one image, one "picture", however
many possible views of that image or aspects of that picture.

One must acquire some sense of idiom, or rely on context, for
matters like this. The phrase "a picture of the king" will
always mean an image or representation of the king, because we
use the genitive form "a picture of the king's" to signify a
physical picture (no matter of what) that happens to be the
property or possession of the king. But "the king's picture"
gives us no such easy out, and we must rely on context to tell
us which meaning makes sense in that context.

Press photographers took the king's picture throughout the
ceremony.

The king owns no paintings save one valuable Van Gogh, but
last night thieves stole the king's picture.

Also, as Skitt has noted, the two uses of "his" in the second
sentence are guilty of having "indefinite antecedents", as one
cannot tell by grammar or by context (or what we have of it)
whether the intended antecedent is Lee Vang or the principal:
either reading would make sense.

[CyberCypher]

Post by Hase
Please read the following sentences.
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an award.
Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook his hand.
In the second sentence, should *his pictures* be replaced by *his
picture*, a singular form?
Someone told me that, in a case like this, no matter how many
pictures the reporters take, it should be singular.
What do you think?
And, if possible, tell me why.

If you want to indicate that photographers (not reporters) took many
pictures of "him", you need to say something like "Photographers
took pictures of him and the mayor shook his hand". Regradless of
the number of pictures taken of someone by how many photographers,
the idiom is "took his picture". "Someone" was correct.

To my mind, you're definitely right. An idiom is an idiom,
and this is idiomatic.
When I read; "... and took his pictures ..." I somehow picture
somone stealing, pinching, absconding with sombodys pictures.

That's the default reading of this sentence, you're right.

[CyberCypher]

In alt.english.usage on 5 Sep 2003 07:33:34 GMT CyberCypher

Post by CyberCypher

Post by Hase
Please read the following sentences.
One week later, the school principal gave Lee Vang an award.
Reporters took his pictures and the mayor shook his hand.
In the second sentence, should *his pictures* be replaced by
*his picture*, a singular form?
Someone told me that, in a case like this, no matter how many
pictures the reporters take, it should be singular.
What do you think?
And, if possible, tell me why.

If you want to indicate that photographers (not reporters) took many

I thought about commenting on that, but reporters do sometimes
take pictures. Especially for small newspapers. I suppose you
could really get into it and say if it was a big enough town to
send two reporters, they probably sent photographers too, OR, any
reporter who takes a picture functions as a photographer, but I
still don't think one can say "not reporters".
But it was good of you to remind him that they were probably
photographers. Since he knows more detail, he can decide.

You'right about this, of course. For very small-budget newspapers,
reporters might double as photographers on their own stories. I
won't venture an opinion on the specific instance for the obvious
reasons (you've already stated them here, so now they're obvious to
all).