The e in cafe

[Jack]

What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it on a
regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a site that
lists the names for all of the special symbols and what they mean?

Thanks. :)

Jack

[the Omrud]

Post by Jack
What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it on a
regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a site that
lists the names for all of the special symbols and what they mean?

It's an "acute accent" from French, and in general these marks above
letters are known as "accents". The same mark may have different
names in other languages. There are several ways of typing them,
depending on what operating system you are using on your computer.
If you are in Windows, look in Accessories | System Tools for the
Character Map which allows you to select all the characters available
by clicking on them. There are simpler ways to type the characters
directly on the keyboard but the Map will show you the characters
available in each font.

[the Omrud]

Post by the Omrud

Post by Jack
What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it on a
regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a site that
lists the names for all of the special symbols and what they mean?

It's an "acute accent" from French, and in general these marks above
letters are known as "accents". The same mark may have different
names in other languages. There are several ways of typing them,
depending on what operating system you are using on your computer.
If you are in Windows, look in Accessories | System Tools for the
Character Map which allows you to select all the characters available
by clicking on them. There are simpler ways to type the characters
directly on the keyboard but the Map will show you the characters
available in each font.

I neglected to answer your final question. They don't "mean"
anything. The letter with the accent is a different letter from that
without the accent.

So, in French, there are several vowels, including e, é, è, a, á, i,
ï, c, ç, o, ö, u, ù. As discussed here the other week, in French the
word "notre" is a different word from "nôtre" and "ou" is a different
word from "où", even if they are pronounced the same.

If "cafe" were a real French word, it would sound quite different
from "café".

[the Omrud]

Post by the Omrud
So, in French, there are several vowels, including e, é, è, a, á, i,
ï, c, ç, o, ö, u, ù. As discussed here the other week, in French the
word "notre" is a different word from "nôtre" and "ou" is a different
word from "où", even if they are pronounced the same.

I know, I know. I put "c, ç," in but neglected to change "vowels".

[Raymond S. Wise]

Post by the Omrud

Post by the Omrud
So, in French, there are several vowels, including e, é, è, a, á, i,
ï, c, ç, o, ö, u, ù. As discussed here the other week, in French the
word "notre" is a different word from "nôtre" and "ou" is a different
word from "où", even if they are pronounced the same.

I know, I know. I put "c, ç," in but neglected to change "vowels".
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

The words "notre" and "nôtre" are pronounced the same by only some
Frenchmen. In traditional usage they are pronounced differently. That
is how the circumflex came to be a marker of a difference in sound
rather than simply a marker of a lost letter, because in "notre" and
"nôtre" and "votre" and "vôtre" French spelling reformers decided to
suppress the circumflex in the case of the more open "o." This led to
"rolle," for example, being respelled "rôle," so that it clearly could
be seen that it must be pronounced with the more closed "o."

(Another pair of words in which a distinction is traditionally made in
French between the "o" sounds is "Paul"--containing the more closed
"o"--and the feminine form of that name, "Paule"--containing the more
open "o.")


--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

[the Omrud]

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by the Omrud

Post by the Omrud
So, in French, there are several vowels, including e, é, è, a, á, i,
ï, c, ç, o, ö, u, ù. As discussed here the other week, in French the
word "notre" is a different word from "nôtre" and "ou" is a different
word from "où", even if they are pronounced the same.

I know, I know. I put "c, ç," in but neglected to change "vowels".

The words "notre" and "nôtre" are pronounced the same by only some
Frenchmen. In traditional usage they are pronounced differently.

Indeed, I have slightly different pronunciations for them myself. I
think I was pointing at the "ou" pair in which case the comma may be
superfluous.

[Raymond S. Wise]

Post by the Omrud

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by the Omrud

Post by the Omrud
So, in French, there are several vowels, including e, é, è, a, á, i,
ï, c, ç, o, ö, u, ù. As discussed here the other week, in French the
word "notre" is a different word from "nôtre" and "ou" is a different
word from "où", even if they are pronounced the same.

I know, I know. I put "c, ç," in but neglected to change "vowels".

The words "notre" and "nôtre" are pronounced the same by only some
Frenchmen. In traditional usage they are pronounced differently.

Indeed, I have slightly different pronunciations for them myself. I
think I was pointing at the "ou" pair in which case the comma may be
superfluous.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

My apologies.

As for "ou"/"où," distinguishing homonyms is considered by the French
to be one of the more functional aspects of the non-phonetic spelling
of their language. In the reform called "nouvelle orthographe," many
(all?) circumflexes which served no purpose other than an etymological
one were suppressed, while accents and silent letters which
distinguished between homonyms (such as "ou"/"où" and "a"/"as"/"à"
were kept, as were those circumflexes which distinguished between verb
tenses.

(For those unaware of it, "nouvelle orthographe"--"new spelling"--a
reform which has been in place more than a decade but which is not
mandatory--has been less than a rousing success.)


--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

[the Omrud]

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by the Omrud

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by the Omrud

Post by the Omrud
So, in French, there are several vowels, including e, é, è, a, á, i,
ï, c, ç, o, ö, u, ù. As discussed here the other week, in French the
word "notre" is a different word from "nôtre" and "ou" is a different
word from "où", even if they are pronounced the same.

I know, I know. I put "c, ç," in but neglected to change "vowels".

The words "notre" and "nôtre" are pronounced the same by only some
Frenchmen. In traditional usage they are pronounced differently.

Indeed, I have slightly different pronunciations for them myself. I
think I was pointing at the "ou" pair in which case the comma may be
superfluous.

My apologies.

Goodness, there's no need for apologies.

[Jack]

Thanks for the help, everybody! :) I really appreciate it. :)

Jack

[Ted Schuerzinger]

Post by the Omrud
If "cafe" were a real French word, it would sound quite different
from "café".

I'm reminded of one of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels (I think "The Man
with the Golden Gun"), in which one of the characters pronounced café to
rhyme with "waif".

[Pierre Jelenc]

Post by Ted Schuerzinger
I'm reminded of one of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels (I think "The Man
with the Golden Gun"), in which one of the characters pronounced café to
rhyme with "waif".

That is --or at least was-- a common working-class English pronunciation.

Pierre

[the Omrud]

Post by Pierre Jelenc

Post by Ted Schuerzinger
I'm reminded of one of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels (I think "The Man
with the Golden Gun"), in which one of the characters pronounced café to
rhyme with "waif".

That is --or at least was-- a common working-class English pronunciation.

Surely not. "kaff", yes, but not "kayf".

[Robin Bignall]

Post by the Omrud

Post by Pierre Jelenc

Post by Ted Schuerzinger
I'm reminded of one of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels (I think "The Man
with the Golden Gun"), in which one of the characters pronounced café to
rhyme with "waif".

That is --or at least was-- a common working-class English pronunciation.

Surely not. "kaff", yes, but not "kayf".

I heard "kayf" used quite often WIWAL in the Midlands, and I'm not
sure that all of the speakers had their tongues in their cheeks.

[sage]

Post by Robin Bignall

Post by the Omrud

Post by Pierre Jelenc

Post by Ted Schuerzinger
I'm reminded of one of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels (I think "The Man
with the Golden Gun"), in which one of the characters pronounced café to
rhyme with "waif".

That is --or at least was-- a common working-class English pronunciation.

Surely not. "kaff", yes, but not "kayf".

I heard "kayf" used quite often WIWAL in the Midlands, and I'm not
sure that all of the speakers had their tongues in their cheeks.

I've heard both pronunciations: kaff and kayf. Thye were used quite
seriously.

Cheers, Sage

[Phonedude]

Post by Robin Bignall

Post by the Omrud

Post by Pierre Jelenc

Post by Ted Schuerzinger
I'm reminded of one of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels (I think "The Man
with the Golden Gun"), in which one of the characters pronounced café to
rhyme with "waif".

That is --or at least was-- a common working-class English
pronunciation.

Surely not. "kaff", yes, but not "kayf".

I heard "kayf" used quite often WIWAL in the Midlands, and I'm not
sure that all of the speakers had their tongues in their cheeks.
--
Robin Bignall
Hoddesdon, England

That's how my telephone pronounces it. I entered Manatee Bay Cafe into my
calling list and when I call by voice command the telephone asks if I meant
Manatee Bay "Kayf."

PD

[Oliver Cromm]

Post by Phonedude

Post by Robin Bignall
I heard "kayf" used quite often WIWAL in the Midlands

That's how my telephone pronounces it. I entered Manatee Bay Cafe into my
calling list and when I call by voice command the telephone asks if I meant
Manatee Bay "Kayf."

That explains your name.

[Phonedude]

Post by Oliver Cromm

Post by Phonedude

Post by Robin Bignall
I heard "kayf" used quite often WIWAL in the Midlands

That's how my telephone pronounces it. I entered Manatee Bay Cafe into my
calling list and when I call by voice command the telephone asks if I meant
Manatee Bay "Kayf."

That explains your name.
--

My phone and I are on a first name basis. We converse frequently and it's
right more than I am. Of course we rarely discuss religion or sex.

PD

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by the Omrud
I neglected to answer your final question. They don't "mean"
anything. The letter with the accent is a different letter from
that without the accent.

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as "a different letter". I don't
speak French, but my understanding is that, e.g., "a" and "á" are
thought of as the same letter when reciting the alphabet and when
sorting (with accent marks only used to break ties in words otherwise
identical). I know that this is the case in Spanish.

In some languages, letters with various diacritics really are thought
of as "different letters". In Spanish, for example, while "a" and "á"
are the same letter, "n" and "ñ" are thought of as completely
different. In Norwegian, "a" and "å" are different letters (with "å"
coming at the end of the alphabet). In Turkish, our "i" is "the one
with the dot" (and its capital has a dot as well), and "I" (dotless in
lowercase) is a separate letter. (Turkish has six letters with
diacritics, all thought of as separate letters.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Whatever it is that the government
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |does, sensible Americans would prefer
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |that the government do it to somebody
|else.
***@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Mark Brader]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as "a different letter". I don't
speak French, but my understanding is that, e.g., "a" and "á" are
thought of as the same letter when reciting the alphabet and when
sorting ...

Correct. But as Evan noted, different languages have different rules.

[Lanarcam]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by the Omrud
I neglected to answer your final question. They don't "mean"
anything. The letter with the accent is a different letter from
that without the accent.

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as "a different letter". I don't
speak French, but my understanding is that, e.g., "a" and "á" are
thought of as the same letter when reciting the alphabet and when
sorting (with accent marks only used to break ties in words otherwise
identical). I know that this is the case in Spanish.

The letter is "à" and not "á" which does not exist in French, btw.

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
In some languages, letters with various diacritics really are thought
of as "different letters". In Spanish, for example, while "a" and "á"
are the same letter, "n" and "ñ" are thought of as completely
different. In Norwegian, "a" and "å" are different letters (with "å"
coming at the end of the alphabet). In Turkish, our "i" is "the one
with the dot" (and its capital has a dot as well), and "I" (dotless in
lowercase) is a separate letter. (Turkish has six letters with
diacritics, all thought of as separate letters.)

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as "a different letter". I don't
speak French, but my understanding is that, e.g., "a" and "á" are
thought of as the same letter when reciting the alphabet and when
sorting (with accent marks only used to break ties in words otherwise
identical). I know that this is the case in Spanish.
In some languages, letters with various diacritics really are thought
of as "different letters". In Spanish, for example, while "a" and "á"
are the same letter, "n" and "ñ" are thought of as completely
different. In Norwegian, "a" and "å" are different letters (with "å"
coming at the end of the alphabet). In Turkish, our "i" is "the one
with the dot" (and its capital has a dot as well), and "I" (dotless in
lowercase) is a separate letter. (Turkish has six letters with
diacritics, all thought of as separate letters.)

Some languages are unsure about what is an extra letter or not.
Claiming that the typically Dutch 'ij' is (or is not)
a separate letter may start endless polemics.

In practice: in some lists the ij is alphabetized between ii an ik,
in others between y and z.

Best,

Jan

[Ted Schuerzinger]

Post by J. J. Lodder
Claiming that the typically Dutch 'ij' is (or is not)
a separate letter may start endless polemics.
In practice: in some lists the ij is alphabetized between ii an ik,
in others between y and z.

For what it's worth, I've got a Dutch road atlas dating from 1989 that's
got the IJ's alphebetized *with* the Y's, not between the Y and Z.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Ted Schuerzinger

Post by J. J. Lodder
Claiming that the typically Dutch 'ij' is (or is not)
a separate letter may start endless polemics.
In practice: in some lists the ij is alphabetized between ii an ik,
in others between y and z.

For what it's worth, I've got a Dutch road atlas dating from 1989 that's
got the IJ's alphebetized *with* the Y's, not between the Y and Z.

Indeed, that is also possible.
When looking for something with an ij in it in an unknown list
you have to look for all possibilities.
Dictionaries usually have ii ij ik,
the phone book has ij and y mixed. (sub-sorted by street name)

Jan

[Skitt]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Ted Schuerzinger

Post by J. J. Lodder
Claiming that the typically Dutch 'ij' is (or is not)
a separate letter may start endless polemics.
In practice: in some lists the ij is alphabetized between ii an
ik, in others between y and z.

For what it's worth, I've got a Dutch road atlas dating from 1989
that's got the IJ's alphebetized *with* the Y's, not between the Y
and Z.

Indeed, that is also possible.
When looking for something with an ij in it in an unknown list
you have to look for all possibilities.
Dictionaries usually have ii ij ik,
the phone book has ij and y mixed. (sub-sorted by street name)

The Latvian alphabet is shown at
http://www.codefusion.com/latvian/alpha/alpha.html

I am surprised that it does not show "ie" as a special letter combination
representing a single sound. Some listings of the Latvian alphabet do that.

[Mike Lyle]

Skitt wrote:
[...]

Post by Skitt
The Latvian alphabet is shown at
http://www.codefusion.com/latvian/alpha/alpha.html

[...]

Entirely trivial and OT, but I saw a Latvian truck on the M40 the
other day. We're used to Poles and Turks and Czechs and whoever on
British roads, but this was my first Latvianiac.

[Laura F. Spira]

Post by Mike Lyle
[...]

Post by Skitt
The Latvian alphabet is shown at
http://www.codefusion.com/latvian/alpha/alpha.html

[...]
Entirely trivial and OT, but I saw a Latvian truck on the M40 the
other day. We're used to Poles and Turks and Czechs and whoever on
British roads, but this was my first Latvianiac.

Nice coinage. I've encountered quite a few of those lately, mostly under
unfavourable circumstances at the Green Road roundabout.

[Michael Hamm]

Post by Ted Schuerzinger

Post by J. J. Lodder
In practice: in some lists the ij is alphabetized between ii an
ik, in others between y and z.

For what it's worth, I've got a Dutch road atlas dating from 1989
that's got the IJ's alphebetized *with* the Y's, not between the Y and
Z.

How are gy, et al., alphabetized in Hungarian?

Michael Hamm It's not who you know, it's whom.
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis Joan Rivers
***@math.wustl.edu Fine print:
http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html

[Alan Jones]

Post by the Omrud

Post by Jack
What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it on a
regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a site that
lists the names for all of the special symbols and what they mean?

It's an "acute accent" from French, and in general these marks above
letters are known as "accents". The same mark may have different
names in other languages. There are several ways of typing them,
depending on what operating system you are using on your computer.
If you are in Windows, look in Accessories | System Tools for the
Character Map which allows you to select all the characters available
by clicking on them. There are simpler ways to type the characters
directly on the keyboard but the Map will show you the characters
available in each font.

On my UK keyboard you can put an acute accent on a-e-i-o-u by simply holding
down Crtl and Alt when typing the vowel - it works with lower and upper
case.

Alan Jones

[zbihniew]

Post by Jack
What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it on a
regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a site that
lists the names for all of the special symbols and what they mean?

I'm not sure about other system but in the Windows I'm just using, you
must have NumLock switch off, hold left Alt and while holding it type
0233 with the numerical keyboard (the one on your very right; you may
have a problem if you're using a laptop).

And as to the sign over "é" - it's called "acute accent".

[Chris Waigl]

Post by zbihniew

Post by Jack
What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it
on a regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a
site that lists the names for all of the special symbols and what
they mean?

I'm not sure about other system but in the Windows I'm just using,
you must have NumLock switch off, hold left Alt and while holding
it type 0233 with the numerical keyboard (the one on your very
right; you may have a problem if you're using a laptop).
And as to the sign over "é" - it's called "acute accent".

In your Control Panel you can switch to the international version of
your keyboard layout. For US-International, try Right-Alt+E to get é.
(I don't use Windows, so this may not be the right key combination.
Just try Right-Alt with everything...)

Chris Waigl

[John Dean]

Post by Jack
What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it on a
regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a site that
lists the names for all of the special symbols and what they mean?

Google on, eg, [keyboard acute cedilla] and you'll have a choice of
lists and tables.
There are several ways to produce most symbols. One version is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~awinkelried/keyboard_shortcuts.html

[Michael Hamm]

Post by Jack
What is the symbol above "e" in cafe called? How would I type it on a
regular QWERTY keyboard? Can somebody please link me to a site that
lists the names for all of the special symbols

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars/ has all you will want to know and
more, presented very understandably (that's not the word, but it's late).

Michael Hamm It's not who you know, it's whom.
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis Joan Rivers
***@math.wustl.edu Fine print:
http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html