To bat in a runner

Post by tonbei
about "bat in a runner"
Baseball Almanac lists as a meaning of "deliver": To bat in a runner.
Then I'm not sure what's meant by "bat in a runner."
Does this mean: "send a hit to return a runner or more runners" ?

It means "hit the ball in such a way that a runner scores".
You could also say "bat a runner in".

"Send a hit" and "return a runner" don't make any sense to me.

(I'm assuming you know how baseball is played, since it's
popular in Japan. A rumor has even reached me about a
Japanese player who's currently doing well in the U.S.)

--
Jerry Friedman

Tony Cooper

2024-09-27 14:35:07 UTC

It means that the batter has hit a ball that allows a teammate - the
"runner" - to score. A "runner" is a player who advanced to a base
by a fair hit or by being walked.

Sam Plusnet

2024-09-27 18:51:48 UTC

It means that the batter has hit a ball that allows a teammate - the
"runner" - to score. A "runner" is a player who advanced to a base
by a fair hit or by being walked.

Or that base[1] could have been 'stolen' - unless my vague knowledge of
the topic is even more in error than usual.

[1] The base from which the runner is batted in.

Tony Cooper

2024-09-27 19:18:37 UTC

Post by Sam Plusnet

It means that the batter has hit a ball that allows a teammate - the
"runner" - to score. A "runner" is a player who advanced to a base
by a fair hit or by being walked.

Or that base[1] could have been 'stolen' - unless my vague knowledge of
the topic is even more in error than usual.

That has nothing to do with the sentence asked about. The being
"batted in" means that runner scored, but nothing to do with what base
the runner was on.

A batter cannot "steal" first base.

There are two other ways for a batter to reach first base without
being walked or getting a hit. A batter struck by a pitch is given
the base, and a batter advances to first on a dropped or uncaught
third strike.

Post by Sam Plusnet
[1] The base from which the runner is batted in.

Tony Cooper

2024-09-27 20:46:07 UTC

On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 15:18:37 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Sam Plusnet

It means that the batter has hit a ball that allows a teammate - the
"runner" - to score. A "runner" is a player who advanced to a base
by a fair hit or by being walked.

Or that base[1] could have been 'stolen' - unless my vague knowledge of
the topic is even more in error than usual.

That has nothing to do with the sentence asked about. The being
"batted in" means that runner scored, but nothing to do with what base
the runner was on.
A batter cannot "steal" first base.
There are two other ways for a batter to reach first base without
being walked or getting a hit. A batter struck by a pitch is given
the base, and a batter advances to first on a dropped or uncaught
third strike.

By the way, when the catcher drops or doesn't catch the third strike,
the batter *can* advance to first base, but the catcher may retrieve
the ball and tag the batter out, or retrieve the ball and throw it to
a teammate (usually the first baseman or pitcher) who tags first base
before the batter arrives.

My comment was to define what a "runner" is. Any player on the
batting team who is on a base - any base - is a "runner" in the
context of the question.

Post by Sam Plusnet
[1] The base from which the runner is batted in.

Rich Ulrich

2024-09-27 20:57:59 UTC

On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 15:18:37 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
There are two other ways for a batter to reach first base without
being walked or getting a hit. A batter struck by a pitch is given
the base, and a batter advances to first on a dropped or uncaught
third strike.

... a batter may get to first on a dropped or uncaught third strike
if he is avoids a quick tag and can beat the throw to first.

- there's a couple of uses of that adjective 'first' as a noun.

--
Rich Ulrich

Garrett Wollman

2024-09-27 16:57:01 UTC

No, because baseball is all about tradition and very precise
application of seemingly minor distinctions.

The statistic "runs batted in" includes runs which were scored *on
account of a batter's actions*, whether or not what the batter did
resulted in a hit -- and excluding blatant mistakes[1] made by the
defending team. So that includes the common case of "the batter got a
hit allowing a baserunner to reach home", but also "the better hit a
fly ball deep enough into the outfield that a runner on third base
could reach home", but not "the batter took a walk while the bases
were full" (the pitcher's fault) or "the batter hit the ball at the
shortstop, but the shortstop threw the ball into the dugout rather
than to the first-baseman, thereby failing to make the final out of
the inning and allowing the runner on third to score".

-GAWollman

[1] The category of "error" is quite broad and at the discretion of
the official keeping score, but generally boils down to "a play that
would have resulted in an out with ordinary effort by players of
ordinary skill for the level of competition".

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

Silvano

2024-09-27 17:39:03 UTC

Post by Garrett Wollman
[1] The category of "error" is quite broad and at the discretion of
the official keeping score, but generally boils down to "a play that
would have resulted in an out with ordinary effort by players of
ordinary skill for the level of competition".

Now I have to ask you about the concept of ordinary skill. I was thrown
a ball once in my life, I even hit it, rather surprising for a
short-sighted person (I can't remember if I wore glasses or had put them
down fearing that the ball hits them), but it was practically an
unplanned sacrifice hit.
I dare say that it was an extraordinary effort for _my_ level of
competition, but then, the pitcher was probably also very far away from
competitive level, even in the lowest league you can think of.
Captain of the US Army Reserve, I think.

Garrett Wollman

2024-09-27 17:57:18 UTC

If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run. And errors are only assessed to the fielding
(defending) team; there are plenty of statistics for offensive
players. (Among them: hits, on-base percentage[1], slugging percentage,
stolen bases, caught stealing, extra-base hits, home runs, productive
outs, hits with runners in scoring position, strikeouts (swinging and
caught looking) and these days all manner of more specific categories
like "opposite-field hits with runners in scoring position when facing
a relief pitcher of the same handedness during a day game after the
fifth inning" that really could stand a Bonferroni correction.)

-GAWollman

[1] ObAUE: baseball "percentages" are actually written as the actual
value, to three decimal places, and spoken aloud as per-millages. So
for example, an "on-base percentage" could be written as ".320"
(usually without the leading zero) and spoken as "three-twenty
oh-bee-pee", not a factor of one hundred anywhere to be found.

Rich Ulrich

2024-09-27 20:52:28 UTC

On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 17:57:18 -0000 (UTC),

If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run. And errors are only assessed to the fielding

On the old statistics: A sacrifice fly that scores a run does
NOT count as an official at-bat -- At-bats are the denominator
in computing the batting average (Hits/At-bats). Also, does a
sacrifice bunt? Related guess-work - I guess that a sacrifice
to move the runner up a base, but not scoring, does not get
this special treatment, but does count as an at-bat, and an out.

Major League Baseball does keep some offiicial records. Googling,
"We are proud that the official historical record now includes the
players of the Negro Leagues," Commissioner Rob Manfred said. "This
initiative is focused on ensuring that future generations of fans
have access to the statistics and milestones of all those who made
the Negro Leagues possible.May 29, 2024 from mlb.com

Post by Garrett Wollman
(defending) team; there are plenty of statistics for offensive
players. (Among them: hits, on-base percentage[1], slugging percentage,
stolen bases, caught stealing, extra-base hits, home runs, productive
outs, hits with runners in scoring position, strikeouts (swinging and
caught looking) and these days all manner of more specific categories
like "opposite-field hits with runners in scoring position when facing
a relief pitcher of the same handedness during a day game after the
fifth inning" that really could stand a Bonferroni correction.)

These new statistics (Wiki article on Sabermetrics) :
The idea of a science of baseball statistics began to achieve
legitimacy in 1977 when Bill James began releasing Baseball
Abstracts, his annual compendium of baseball data.[5][6] However,
James's ideas were slow to find widespread acceptance.[1]

The film "Moneyball" (2011) popularized the success of the
Oakland A's in 2002. They built a team on the cheap, hiring
players whose productivity showed up better in the subtler
numbers.

I'm pretty sure that the leaders in homers, RBIs, and hits get
some official recognition from MLB; plus unofficial awards and
recognition from folks who want a baseball star to show up at
their annual banquet. However, most of those newer categories
don't get rewards. I wonder how many of them are included
in MLB's official records.

Post by Garrett Wollman
-GAWollman
[1] ObAUE: baseball "percentages" are actually written as the actual
value, to three decimal places, and spoken aloud as per-millages. So
for example, an "on-base percentage" could be written as ".320"
(usually without the leading zero) and spoken as "three-twenty
oh-bee-pee", not a factor of one hundred anywhere to be found.

Cross-thread -- there was a discussion of prefixes and units,
and "cent" or "centi" refer to 100s or 100ths. What would be
the proper name for parts-per-thousand? I think I've never
heard of "perkiolage" or "permilliage" even as a joke.

--
Rich Ulrich

Garrett Wollman

2024-09-27 22:35:50 UTC

Post by Rich Ulrich
the proper name for parts-per-thousand? I think I've never
heard of "perkiolage" or "permilliage" even as a joke.

OED s.v. permillage (n.): "A rate or number per thousand; an amount
reckoned as so much in each thousand." Citations from 1869 to 2001.

There's even a sign for it, ‰. (In the font I'm using this is not
really legible but if you magnify it you'll see that there are two
zeroes in the "denominator" rather than one as for %.)

-GAWollman

Rich Ulrich

2024-09-28 04:28:24 UTC

On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 22:35:50 -0000 (UTC),

Post by Rich Ulrich
the proper name for parts-per-thousand? I think I've never
heard of "perkiolage" or "permilliage" even as a joke.

OED s.v. permillage (n.): "A rate or number per thousand; an amount
reckoned as so much in each thousand." Citations from 1869 to 2001.
There's even a sign for it, ‰. (In the font I'm using this is not
really legible but if you magnify it you'll see that there are two
zeroes in the "denominator" rather than one as for %.)

Permillage! Thanks!

My font shows the sign well enough. Even though, I see I
didn't recognize how I botched "perkiloage" when I typed it.

I can say, the sign never caught my attention on the few
occasions that I have viewed tables of fonts, or in any
published text.

Some of those quantitative nerds in baseball might be
pleased to promote their proper term, if it were properly
introduced.

Post by Garrett Wollman
-GAWollman

Peter Moylan

2024-09-28 05:20:22 UTC

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 22:35:50 -0000 (UTC),

the proper name for parts-per-thousand? I think I've never heard
of "perkiolage" or "permilliage" even as a joke.

OED s.v. permillage (n.): "A rate or number per thousand; an
amount reckoned as so much in each thousand." Citations from 1869
to 2001.
There's even a sign for it, ‰. (In the font I'm using this is not
really legible but if you magnify it you'll see that there are two
zeroes in the "denominator" rather than one as for %.)

Permillage! Thanks!
My font shows the sign well enough. Even though, I see I didn't
recognize how I botched "perkiloage" when I typed it.
I can say, the sign never caught my attention on the few occasions
that I have viewed tables of fonts, or in any published text.
Some of those quantitative nerds in baseball might be pleased to
promote their proper term, if it were properly introduced.

But it's not a permillage unless you omit the decimal point. Unless I've
misunderstood something, the quantitative nerds don't use percentages or
permillages, they use the actual unscaled number with its decimal point.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Rich Ulrich

2024-09-28 16:39:01 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 22:35:50 -0000 (UTC),

the proper name for parts-per-thousand? I think I've never heard
of "perkiolage" or "permilliage" even as a joke.

OED s.v. permillage (n.): "A rate or number per thousand; an
amount reckoned as so much in each thousand." Citations from 1869
to 2001.
There's even a sign for it, ‰. (In the font I'm using this is not
really legible but if you magnify it you'll see that there are two
zeroes in the "denominator" rather than one as for %.)

Permillage! Thanks!
My font shows the sign well enough. Even though, I see I didn't
recognize how I botched "perkiloage" when I typed it.
I can say, the sign never caught my attention on the few occasions
that I have viewed tables of fonts, or in any published text.
Some of those quantitative nerds in baseball might be pleased to
promote their proper term, if it were properly introduced.

Okay, what they write has a decimal. I'm pretty sure what
I've heard them say, like "batting three-oh-nine", is the
permillage. They don't say "point 3-0-9" or "point two fifty-five".

The new trend could be encouraged if they found and
started using the permillage sign, ‰, instead of that leading
decimal. (I don't know where to find it butI cut-and-paste works.)

I can imagine some precise geek trying it.

--
Rich Ulrichh

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-09-28 18:05:41 UTC

Post by Rich Ulrich
The new trend could be encouraged if they found and
started using the permillage sign, ‰, instead of that leading
decimal. (I don't know where to find it butI cut-and-paste works.)

HTML Entity:

‰
‰
&permil;

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Silvano

2024-09-28 06:08:32 UTC

If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

I stand corrected. Please tell me how you call this situation: I hit the
ball, it flies only a few yards, the catcher throws it to first base
long before I get there and a teammate runs in the meantime from second
to third base.

Tony Cooper

2024-09-28 13:11:45 UTC

On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:08:32 +0200, Silvano

If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

Depends. If you intentionally hit it only a few yards (a bunt) by
allowing the ball to strike the bat instead of swinging the bat to hit
the ball, it's a sacrifice bunt.

Otherwise, it's just a miss (and an out) because the batter must reach
first base safely for it to be a hit.

The distance the ball travels after being hit, and what any
baserunners do, do not determine whether or not a "hit" is recorded.

jerryfriedman

2024-09-28 13:49:43 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:08:32 +0200, Silvano

Post by Silvano
I was thrown
a ball once in my life, I even hit it, rather surprising for a
short-sighted person (I can't remember if I wore glasses or had put them
down fearing that the ball hits them), but it was practically an
unplanned sacrifice hit.

If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

Depends. If you intentionally hit it only a few yards (a bunt) by
allowing the ball to strike the bat instead of swinging the bat to hit
the ball, it's a sacrifice bunt.
Otherwise, it's just a miss (and an out) because the batter must reach
first base safely for it to be a hit.
The distance the ball travels after being hit, and what any
baserunners do, do not determine whether or not a "hit" is recorded.

Interesting. I didn't realize that the apparent intention
determined whether a "sacrifice bunt" is recorded. (However
there's nothing explicit about judging the intention of a
sacrifice fly.)

--
Jerry Friedman

Silvano

2024-09-28 14:56:30 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:08:32 +0200, Silvano

If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

Interesting. I would have never imagined that it is a miss when the
batter does hit the ball, even if his swing is pathetic. There was no
intention, just my inability to hit it better. After all, it was the
first and possibly last time I ever held a baseball bat in my hands.

jerryfriedman

2024-09-28 15:51:26 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:08:32 +0200, Silvano

That should be "fearing that the ball would hit them" or
various other ways to say it. There's some rule against
using the present tense with "fearing that", "in the hope
that", "I expect that", "It's possible that", etc., when
the event hasn't happened yet.

Post by Garrett Wollman
If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

I don't think I've ever heard that kind of event (which I
may have caused at some point) called a miss. I'd say it
was a slow or weak grounder.

You did hit the ball, but you didn't get a hit, as the
noun "hit" would always be understood according to the
official definition (by Americans and maybe Canadians
anyway).

Officially it wouldn't be a sacrifice, but at the highly
informal level you were playing it, your term "unnplanned
sacrifice" seems OK to me. You just can't call it a
hit.

--
Jerry Friedman

Aidan Kehoe

2024-09-28 17:59:54 UTC

[...] Now I have to ask you about the concept of ordinary skill. I was
thrown a ball once in my life, I even hit it, rather surprising for a
short-sighted person (I can't remember if I wore glasses or had put
them down fearing that the ball hits them), but it was practically an
unplanned sacrifice hit.

The last whisper of the subjunctive, something Silvano will be familiar with
from his other languages.

Post by Garrett Wollman
If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

I don't think I've ever heard that kind of event (which I
may have caused at some point) called a miss. I'd say it
was a slow or weak grounder.
You did hit the ball, but you didn't get a hit, as the
noun "hit" would always be understood according to the
official definition (by Americans and maybe Canadians
anyway).
Officially it wouldn't be a sacrifice, but at the highly
informal level you were playing it, your term "unnplanned
sacrifice" seems OK to me. You just can't call it a
hit.

No comment, I have no interest in sports and no passive knowledge of baseball.
I am glad people in the group are willing and able to explain it.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Tony Cooper

2024-09-28 18:58:33 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe

The last whisper of the subjunctive, something Silvano will be familiar with
from his other languages.

Post by Garrett Wollman
If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

I don't think I've ever heard that kind of event (which I
may have caused at some point) called a miss. I'd say it
was a slow or weak grounder.

I probably shouldn't have used the word "miss". I meant it in the
"missed opportunity" sense. "Miss" is not a word used in baseball
statistics.

There is no opposite word to "hit" in the baseball statistical sense
as there is in the expression "hit or miss".

I disagree that "grounder" should be used instead of "miss". A
"grounder" can be a hit. The "hit" condition is based on the batter
safely reaching first base (at least), not the route of the struck
ball.

Post by Aidan Kehoe

Post by jerryfriedman
You did hit the ball, but you didn't get a hit, as the
noun "hit" would always be understood according to the
official definition (by Americans and maybe Canadians
anyway).
Officially it wouldn't be a sacrifice, but at the highly
informal level you were playing it, your term "unnplanned
sacrifice" seems OK to me. You just can't call it a
hit.

No comment, I have no interest in sports and no passive knowledge of baseball.
I am glad people in the group are willing and able to explain it.

jerryfriedman

2024-09-28 20:10:53 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:08:32 +0200, Silvano

..

It's more complicated than I said. "I fear the ball will
break my glasses." "I hope the ball doesn't break my
glasses."

("I fear" is less likely than "I'm afraid", "I'm
scared", "I'm worried", etc.)

Post by jerryfriedman
Officially it wouldn't be a sacrifice, but at the highly
informal level you were playing it,

At, not it.

We could then discuss whether it's good style to repeat
"at" that way.

Post by jerryfriedman
your term "unnplanned sacrifice" seems OK to me.

..

--
Jerry Friedman

lar3ryca

2024-09-29 06:35:47 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:08:32 +0200, Silvano

There's a common form of using the wrong tense in the commentary of
Canadian Football commentators.

"If he doesn't avoid being tackled, he's in for a touchdown."

The meaning intended would be properly said as:
"He would have been in for a touchdown if if he had avoided the tackle."

--
Which side of a chicken has more feathers?
The outside.

jerryfriedman

2024-09-29 13:18:07 UTC

On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 6:35:47 +0000, lar3ryca wrote:
..

Post by lar3ryca
There's a common form of using the wrong tense in the commentary of
Canadian Football commentators.
"If he doesn't avoid being tackled, he's in for a touchdown."
"He would have been in for a touchdown if if he had avoided the tackle."

Without "If", that construction has been called the "baseball
conditional" in the U.S. "He catches that ball, the game's
over" meaning "If he had caught that ball, the game would
have been over."

--
Jerry Friedman

lar3ryca

2024-09-30 05:37:58 UTC

Post by jerryfriedman
..

Without "If", that construction has been called the "baseball
conditional" in the U.S. "He catches that ball, the game's
over" meaning "If he had caught that ball, the game would
have been over."

I watch a lot of Blue Jays games, but I can't recall having heard that
form, but it doesn't surprise me.

CFL commentators are just plain annoying.

"That bring up third and 10, so they're forced to punt."
When I hear that, I think of all the things they could do..
Run, pass, take a knee, run back into their own endzone, and likely a
few more actions I haven't thought of.

And two of the idiots refer to a quarterback sliding to avoid being
tackled as a 'hook slide".

--
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect.
–Mark Twain

Tony Cooper

2024-09-28 16:40:54 UTC

On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 16:56:30 +0200, Silvano

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:08:32 +0200, Silvano

If it's a sacrifice it's not a hit; a sacrifice is a fly-out or a bunt
that also scores a run.

Interesting. I would have never imagined that it is a miss when the
batter does hit the ball, even if his swing is pathetic.

In this case, "miss" is other than a "hit". It doesn't mean the bat
missed the ball when it was swung.

The discussion is about how we record the actions. What you did would
be recorded as an "out". In batting statistics, we don't use "miss";
we record that as 0-1 or say "Oh for one". "Oh", being zero.

Post by Silvano
There was no
intention, just my inability to hit it better. After all, it was the
first and possibly last time I ever held a baseball bat in my hands.

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-09-28 08:03:18 UTC

Post by Garrett Wollman
[1] ObAUE: baseball "percentages" are actually written as the actual
value, to three decimal places, and spoken aloud as per-millages. So
for example, an "on-base percentage" could be written as ".320"
(usually without the leading zero) and spoken as "three-twenty
oh-bee-pee", not a factor of one hundred anywhere to be found.

Why the "oh-bee-pee"?

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Snidely

2024-09-28 09:01:48 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Why the "oh-bee-pee"?

"on base percentage" takes too long

/dps

--
"Maintaining a really good conspiracy requires far more intelligent
application, by a large number of people, than the world can readily
supply."

Sam Plusnet

Bebercito

2024-09-28 13:40:33 UTC

Post by Snidely

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Why the "oh-bee-pee"?

"on base percentage" takes too long

But did the hymenopteron respond to the diuretic entreaty?

Post by Snidely
/dps

Aidan Kehoe

2024-09-28 09:45:16 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Why the "oh-bee-pee"?

“On-base percentage,”, OBP.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

jerryfriedman

2024-09-28 14:00:44 UTC

..

I agree with your definition of "RBI", but if someone defines
"deliver" as "to bat in a runner", are they only talking
about RBIs?

On a more general note, are there other sports where the
official rules include how various non-scoring events
are recorded? Cricket?

--
Jerry Friedman

Rich Ulrich

2024-09-28 17:07:27 UTC

..
I agree with your definition of "RBI", but if someone defines
"deliver" as "to bat in a runner", are they only talking
about RBIs?
On a more general note, are there other sports where the
official rules include how various non-scoring events
are recorded? Cricket?

When I scored basketball games (high school, 1960s), I think
I was following official rules -- an attempted shot-and-miss is not
counted as an attempt if the player is fouled: But a shot that
scores is counted both as an attempt and a score, even though
fouled.

When the quarterback (American football) takes a knee with
the ball to let the clock run out, I rather HOPE that this is
recorded as a team-loss of a yard or two, rather than a
running attempt by the QB. But I might have heard someone
praise the QB's running for a game, while adding, "... but
two of those attempts were to run out the clock." So, I
suspect the QB does not get that edge.

In baseball, a sacrifice fly gives the player an RBI even though
the non-hit at-bat is not counted in the denominator for the
player's average.

Now I am wondering -- a player needs to have X number of
at-bats at the end of the season to be eligible for the awards
for batting. It seems fair and just that those sacrifices should
count for that total, but (if I recall correctly) they do not.
Neither do Walks or hit-by-ball, and the same question applies.

Earlier, I wondered if moving a runner by a base without scoring
was counted as an official sacrifice (I think, no), but I did not
spot a clear answer in the replies I've seen. (I've lost some faith
lately in timely deliveries by Giganews.)

--
Rich Ulrich

Garrett Wollman

2024-09-28 21:55:41 UTC

Post by jerryfriedman
On a more general note, are there other sports where the
official rules include how various non-scoring events
are recorded? Cricket?

Well certainly in hockey: there's a difference between a "scoring
chance" and a "shot on goal" -- a shot in the direction of the goal
can be blocked or intercepted and thereby still count as a plausible
opportunity to score but not as a shot-on-goal -- plus all the ice
times and penalty minutes are carefully tallied. Football is mostly
about non-scoring events and keeps lots of statistics about "yardage"
even though only one play in ten actually gets into the end zone and
thereby results in a score.

-GAWollman

jerryfriedman

2024-09-29 01:18:39 UTC