Discussion:
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen?
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I***@gmail.com
2007-06-05 16:25:34 UTC
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Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
I***@gmail.com
2007-06-05 16:35:34 UTC
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Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as "...the
most recent version...."
Dominic Bojarski
2007-06-05 16:38:50 UTC
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Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as "...the
most recent version...."
No hyphen.

Dominic Bojarski
cybercypher
2007-06-05 17:34:45 UTC
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Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as "...the
most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid ambiguity.
There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase, so there's no need
for a hyphen.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
"Those who write clearly have readers, those who write obscurely have
commentators." Albert Camus.
Murray Arnow
2007-06-05 18:02:00 UTC
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Post by cybercypher
Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as "...the
most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid ambiguity.
There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase, so there's no need
for a hyphen.
I agree, but it occurred to me how confusing English can be to non-native
speakers. Adjectives are usually modified by adverbs without hyphenation,
but the adverb "mostly" is wrong here. Franke, you certainly do have your
work cut out.
cybercypher
2007-06-06 03:23:34 UTC
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Post by Murray Arnow
Post by cybercypher
Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as
"...the most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid
ambiguity. There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase, so
there's no need for a hyphen.
I agree, but it occurred to me how confusing English can be to
non-native speakers. Adjectives are usually modified by adverbs
without hyphenation, but the adverb "mostly" is wrong here.
Franke, you certainly do have your work cut out.
It's easier when students read a lot of good English novels and essays
before asking questions.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
"I believe that every English poet should read the English classics,
master the rules of grammar before he attempts to bend or break them,
travel abroad, experience the horror of sordid passion and -- if he is
lucky enough -- know the love of an honest woman." Robert Graves
Evan Kirshenbaum
2007-06-05 20:09:58 UTC
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Post by cybercypher
Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as "...the
most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid ambiguity.
There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase, so there's no need
for a hyphen.
Except in weird cases. I might put one in to distinguish between

Most recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But not all recent versions)
Most-recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But I make no guarantees about anything older)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |A handgun is like a Lawyer. You
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |don't want it lying around where
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |the children might be exposed to
|it, but when you need one, you need
***@hpl.hp.com |it RIGHT NOW, and nothing else will
(650)857-7572 |do.
| Bill McNutt
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Mike Lyle
2007-06-05 20:33:03 UTC
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Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by cybercypher
Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as "...the
most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid ambiguity.
There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase, so there's no need
for a hyphen.
Except in weird cases. I might put one in to distinguish between
Most recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But not all recent versions)
Most-recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But I make no guarantees about anything older)
I'd prefer to resolve the ambiguity by using the definite article.

--
Mike.
cybercypher
2007-06-06 02:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by cybercypher
Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as
"...the most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid
ambiguity. There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase, so
there's no need for a hyphen.
Except in weird cases. I might put one in to distinguish between
Most recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But not all recent versions)
Most-recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But I make no guarantees about anything older)
I'd prefer to resolve the ambiguity by using the definite article.
Me too.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
"People love a man who can fight and don't take shit."
George "Iceman" Chambers
Arcadian Rises
2007-06-06 02:37:30 UTC
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Post by cybercypher
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by cybercypher
Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as
"...the most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid
ambiguity. There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase, so
there's no need for a hyphen.
Except in weird cases. I might put one in to distinguish between
Most recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But not all recent versions)
Most-recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But I make no guarantees about anything older)
I'd prefer to resolve the ambiguity by using the definite article.
Me too.
Me three.

Would you hyphanate "more recent" or "less recent"?
cybercypher
2007-06-06 03:30:15 UTC
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Post by Arcadian Rises
Post by cybercypher
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by cybercypher
Post by I***@gmail.com
Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
By the way, I'm referring to an adjectival phrase, such as
"...the most recent version...."
Hyphenated adjectival phrases are necessary only to avoid
ambiguity. There's no chance of anyone misreading the phrase,
so there's no need for a hyphen.
Except in weird cases. I might put one in to distinguish
between
Most recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But not all recent versions)
Most-recent versions of these programs are acceptable.
(But I make no guarantees about anything older)
I'd prefer to resolve the ambiguity by using the definite
article.
Me too.
Me three.
Would you hyphanate "more recent" or "less recent"?
I can't think of an instance in which it would be necessary, but that
doesn't mean one will not present itself one of these days, like some
dread disease or death, neither of which has ever come before.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
"I don't know the rules of grammar. If you're trying to persuade
people to do something, or buy something, it seems to me you should
use their language." David Ogilvy
Garrett Wollman
2007-06-06 04:14:14 UTC
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Post by Arcadian Rises
Would you hyphanate "more recent" or "less recent"?
Always. (But I would nearly always hyphenate "most-recent" as well,
in the same contexts, and indeed nearly all noun phrases acting as
modifiers.)
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
***@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
Mike Lyle
2007-06-06 12:18:19 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Arcadian Rises
Would you hyphanate "more recent" or "less recent"?
Always. (But I would nearly always hyphenate "most-recent" as well,
in the same contexts, and indeed nearly all noun phrases acting as
modifiers.)
Have I misunderstood, or are you calling the comparatives and
superlatives of adjectives "noun phrases"?
--
Mike.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
cybercypher
2007-06-06 13:02:42 UTC
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Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Arcadian Rises
Would you hyphanate "more recent" or "less recent"?
Always. (But I would nearly always hyphenate "most-recent" as well,
in the same contexts, and indeed nearly all noun phrases acting as
modifiers.)
Have I misunderstood, or are you calling the comparatives and
superlatives of adjectives "noun phrases"?
It's okay, Mike. When we reach Farenheit 451-ness, nobody will know
what all those arcane words mean anyway. Present ignorance will seem
prescient to future ignoramuses.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
"Blessed is the man who, having nothing to stay, abstains from giving
us worthy evidence of the fact." George Eliot.
Arcadian Rises
2007-06-06 13:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by cybercypher
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Arcadian Rises
Would you hyphanate "more recent" or "less recent"?
Always. (But I would nearly always hyphenate "most-recent" as well,
in the same contexts, and indeed nearly all noun phrases acting as
modifiers.)
Have I misunderstood, or are you calling the comparatives and
superlatives of adjectives "noun phrases"?
It's okay, Mike. When we reach Farenheit 451-ness, nobody will know
what all those arcane words mean anyway. Present ignorance will seem
prescient to future ignoramuses.
That's a great saying, bumper-sticker material.

Allow me to add that even to the present (as in contemporary) ignorant
present ignorance seems prescient.
Garrett Wollman
2007-06-06 22:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Garrett Wollman
Always. (But I would nearly always hyphenate "most-recent" as well,
in the same contexts, and indeed nearly all noun phrases acting as
modifiers.)
Have I misunderstood, or are you calling the comparatives and
superlatives of adjectives "noun phrases"?
No, I was just pointing out (poorly) another place where I generally
hyphenate and many currently-fashionable styles prefer not to.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
***@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
cybercypher
2007-06-07 01:24:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Garrett Wollman
Always. (But I would nearly always hyphenate "most-recent" as
well, in the same contexts, and indeed nearly all noun phrases
acting as modifiers.)
Have I misunderstood, or are you calling the comparatives and
superlatives of adjectives "noun phrases"?
No, I was just pointing out (poorly) another place where I
generally hyphenate and many currently-fashionable styles prefer
not to.
Most style manuals have a rule against hyphenating adverbs that end in
/-ly/.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
"In proportion to the want of happiness resulting from the want of
rights, a reason exists for wishing that there were such things as
rights. But reasons for wishing there were such things as rights, are
not rights; -- a reason for wishing that a certain right were
established, is not that right -- want is not supply -- hunger is not
bread." Jeremy Bentham, Critique of the Doctrine of Inalienable,
Natural Rights. From Jeremy Bentham, _Anarchical Fallacies_, vol. 2 of
Bowring (ed.), Works, 1843.
http://www.ditext.com/bentham/bentham.html
Joe Fineman
2007-06-06 02:02:23 UTC
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Post by I***@gmail.com
Should the phrase "most recent" include a hyphen? Why or why not?
There is a sensible rule that words that can be either adjectives or
adverbs are hyphenated when they occur as adverb+adjective+noun, as in
"well-known rule". Unfortunately (IMO), "more" & "most" are usually
exceptions. "The most recent results" is what you will mostly see;
and the presence of "The" does prevent us from supposing that "most"
modifies "results". Indeed, I am having trouble inventing an example
that would actually be ambiguous.

With "more" ambiguity is much more likely, and you will sometimes see
"more-intelligent people" and the like.
--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: Having a computer is like having a second mind -- one that :||
||: is always on the verge of a nervous breakdown. :||
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