in the habit of

[navi]

1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.

Which are correct?
Which are natural?

I think '5' is probably just wrong. The other ones seem correct to me
but only '1' sounds natural.

--
Gratefully,
Navi

Lost in the Twilight Zone of the English language
Obsessed with ambiguity
Interested in strange structures

[Snidely]

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?
I think '5' is probably just wrong. The other ones seem correct to me
but only '1' sounds natural.

I don't think any of them are correct, but that's a semantic issue
rather than grammatical. The muscles aren't the agent here; the
possessor is.

I don't have a grammatical objection to any of the choices.

/dps

[navi]

Thank you very much, Snidely,

Very good point. You've made me feel a bit stupid... maybe more than 'a
bit' actually. I should have noticed that problem.

Respectfully,
Navi

[Hibou]

Post by Snidely

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?
I think '5' is probably just wrong. The other ones seem correct to me
but only '1' sounds natural.

I don't think any of them are correct, but that's a semantic issue
rather than grammatical.  The muscles aren't the agent here; the
possessor is.

Is this a case of synecdoche?

Post by Snidely
I don't have a grammatical objection to any of the choices.

[Snidely]

Post by Hibou

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?
I think '5' is probably just wrong. The other ones seem correct to me
but only '1' sounds natural.

I don't think any of them are correct, but that's a semantic issue rather
than grammatical.  The muscles aren't the agent here; the possessor is.

Is this a case of synecdoche?

Could be, but it seems an awkward use of it.

Post by Hibou

I don't have a grammatical objection to any of the choices.

-d

[lar3ryca]

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?
I think '5' is probably just wrong. The other ones seem correct to me
but only '1' sounds natural.

Is it 'just wrong' because it isn't there?

Personally, I would favour '2'.

Post by navi
--
Gratefully,
Navi
Lost in the Twilight Zone of the English language
Obsessed with ambiguity
Interested in strange structures

[LionelEdwards]

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.

I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

[Peter Moylan]

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

I have a daughter who is an OT. If I have understood it correctly,
occupational theory is practiced by those with a degree in Occupational
Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of those whose
qualifications are in sports training.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

I have a daughter who is an OT. If I have understood it correctly,
occupational theory is practiced by those with a degree in Occupational
Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of those whose
qualifications are in sports training.

In this part of the world, you are sent to an Occupational Therapist
if, due to your physical condition, you are not able to perform normal
tasks including general mobile disability.

You are sent to a Physical Therapist if you have a specific problem,
and usually a specific problem with a limb or a joint. The Physical
Therapist treats more targeted areas with the intent of short-term
recovery. ("Short-term" being, in this case, six to eight weeks.)

Sports injuries are a common cause of seeing a Physical Therapist, but
by no means the most common cause.

[Aidan Kehoe]

Post by Tony Cooper

[...] I have a daughter who is an [occupational therapist]. If I have
understood it correctly, occupational theory is practiced by those with a
degree in Occupational Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of
those whose qualifications are in sports training.

In this part of the world, you are sent to an Occupational Therapist
if, due to your physical condition, you are not able to perform normal
tasks including general mobile disability.
You are sent to a Physical Therapist if you have a specific problem,
and usually a specific problem with a limb or a joint. The Physical
Therapist treats more targeted areas with the intent of short-term
recovery. ("Short-term" being, in this case, six to eight weeks.)

There’s a lot of overlap, and locally any hospital in-patient who needs to see
occupational therapy usually needs to see physiotherapy too. (After a stroke,
after a bad pneumonia which impacted their mobility, after a fracture of the
neck of femur.)

Post by Tony Cooper
Sports injuries are a common cause of seeing a Physical Therapist, but
by no means the most common cause.

Depends on the age of the population.

[Paul Wolff]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

I have a daughter who is an OT. If I have understood it correctly,
occupational theory is practiced by those with a degree in Occupational
Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of those whose
qualifications are in sports training.

In this part of the world, you are sent to an Occupational Therapist
if, due to your physical condition, you are not able to perform normal
tasks including general mobile disability.
You are sent to a Physical Therapist if you have a specific problem,
and usually a specific problem with a limb or a joint. The Physical
Therapist treats more targeted areas with the intent of short-term
recovery. ("Short-term" being, in this case, six to eight weeks.)
Sports injuries are a common cause of seeing a Physical Therapist, but
by no means the most common cause.

My wife was a physiotherapist specialising in neurological recovery -
typically, recovery of physical function after brain trauma.
Incidentally, her sister was an OT.

Is Physical Therapist just a foreign usage of British physiotherapist?
That word, and physiotherapy, are both often shortened to "physio".

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 15:32:04 +0000, Paul Wolff

Post by Paul Wolff

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

I have a daughter who is an OT. If I have understood it correctly,
occupational theory is practiced by those with a degree in Occupational
Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of those whose
qualifications are in sports training.

In this part of the world, you are sent to an Occupational Therapist
if, due to your physical condition, you are not able to perform normal
tasks including general mobile disability.
You are sent to a Physical Therapist if you have a specific problem,
and usually a specific problem with a limb or a joint. The Physical
Therapist treats more targeted areas with the intent of short-term
recovery. ("Short-term" being, in this case, six to eight weeks.)
Sports injuries are a common cause of seeing a Physical Therapist, but
by no means the most common cause.

My wife was a physiotherapist specialising in neurological recovery -
typically, recovery of physical function after brain trauma.
Incidentally, her sister was an OT.
Is Physical Therapist just a foreign usage of British physiotherapist?
That word, and physiotherapy, are both often shortened to "physio".

Perhaps, but maybe "physiotherapist" is just a foreign usage of
"physical therapist". It is shortened to "PT" in the US.

What I will attempt to explain in the following is the US practice
that I've observed. Readers will have to understand that what I've
observed is specific to what I've experienced and that it may not be
the same for all Americans because our medical insurance plans are not
all the same.

My own: I painted the ceilings of our condo using a paint roller on a
long stick. That resulted in a very sore shoulder and pain in moving
an arm. My "provider" (the doctor who my medical insurance company
considers my primary care physician) prescribed physical therapy.

I went to the hospital's Physical Therapy facility for several
sessions with a "PT" who had me perform a series of exercises and
assisted with manipulation of my arm. The problem went away after
about ten sessions.

My wife: My wife, after a fall, was diagnosed as having "benign
paroxysmal positional vertigo" which is the displacement of the inner
ear crystals (otoconia). She was given a prescription for physical
therapy by a physical therapist who is trained in treating this
disorder.

Her weekly treatments involve rotating her head and body in such a way
that the displaced crystals fall back into place. This is done both
manually and in an "Epley Chair" which she's strapped into and rotates
her entire body.

In my wife's case, the PT has been going on for over two years now.
The vertigo goes away, but then reappears a few weeks later. The
prescription is renewed (actually, in this case, called a "referral")
and she's scheduled for 15 more sessions.

The facility I went to - which is part of the hospital chain where my
provider is associated, is very near where we live. The other
"patients" I observed in those visits did not appear to have
sports-related problems based on their age and physical appearance.

The facility my wife goes to (which is operated by the same hospital
chain) is about an hour's drive from us, but is the only Central
Florida facility with a therapist trained in BPPV therapy. Again, the
other people being treated there do not appear to have sports-related
injuries.

One grandson's shoulder was dislocated playing high school football,
and was sent to yet another facility operated by the same hospital
chain. That facility specializes in sports-related injuries. The
local NBA team and the local universities use that facility. Grandson
liked going there because he met a number of well-known athletes on
his visits.

In summary, with a similar insurance plan to ours, the person is
referred to a physical therapist by his/her primary care physician,
and is then treated at an appropriate facility.

I have no experience with an Occupational Therapist.

[Paul Wolff]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 15:32:04 +0000, Paul Wolff

Post by Paul Wolff

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

I have a daughter who is an OT. If I have understood it correctly,
occupational theory is practiced by those with a degree in Occupational
Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of those whose
qualifications are in sports training.

In this part of the world, you are sent to an Occupational Therapist
if, due to your physical condition, you are not able to perform normal
tasks including general mobile disability.
You are sent to a Physical Therapist if you have a specific problem,
and usually a specific problem with a limb or a joint. The Physical
Therapist treats more targeted areas with the intent of short-term
recovery. ("Short-term" being, in this case, six to eight weeks.)
Sports injuries are a common cause of seeing a Physical Therapist, but
by no means the most common cause.

My wife was a physiotherapist specialising in neurological recovery -
typically, recovery of physical function after brain trauma.
Incidentally, her sister was an OT.
Is Physical Therapist just a foreign usage of British physiotherapist?
That word, and physiotherapy, are both often shortened to "physio".

Perhaps, but maybe "physiotherapist" is just a foreign usage of
"physical therapist". It is shortened to "PT" in the US.

Thanks, Tony.
<snip for brevity>

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] My wife: My wife, after a fall, was diagnosed as having "benign
paroxysmal positional vertigo" which is the displacement of the inner ear
crystals (otoconia). She was given a prescription for physical therapy by a
physical therapist who is trained in treating this disorder.
Her weekly treatments involve rotating her head and body in such a way
that the displaced crystals fall back into place. This is done both
manually and in an "Epley Chair" which she's strapped into and rotates
her entire body.
In my wife's case, the PT has been going on for over two years now.
The vertigo goes away, but then reappears a few weeks later. The
prescription is renewed (actually, in this case, called a "referral")
and she's scheduled for 15 more sessions.

!!!!!!!!!

We (doctors) do an Epley manoeuvre, explain the modified Epley manoeuvre that
the patient can do on his or her own, supply a print out, and prescribe
prochlorperazine to top up the mechanical effect. I’d be surprised if most of
the local physios routinely do Epley manoeuvres. The natural history of BPPV is
that it settles with time and typically returns after a few years. I would
worry with the above picture that there is a distinct underlying problem that
has been missed.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by Aidan Kehoe

[...] My wife: My wife, after a fall, was diagnosed as having "benign
paroxysmal positional vertigo" which is the displacement of the inner ear
crystals (otoconia). She was given a prescription for physical therapy by a
physical therapist who is trained in treating this disorder.
Her weekly treatments involve rotating her head and body in such a way
that the displaced crystals fall back into place. This is done both
manually and in an "Epley Chair" which she's strapped into and rotates
her entire body.
In my wife's case, the PT has been going on for over two years now.
The vertigo goes away, but then reappears a few weeks later. The
prescription is renewed (actually, in this case, called a "referral")
and she's scheduled for 15 more sessions.

!!!!!!!!!
We (doctors) do an Epley manoeuvre, explain the modified Epley manoeuvre that
the patient can do on his or her own, supply a print out, and prescribe
prochlorperazine to top up the mechanical effect. I’d be surprised if most of
the local physios routinely do Epley manoeuvres. The natural history of BPPV is
that it settles with time and typically returns after a few years. I would
worry with the above picture that there is a distinct underlying problem that
has been missed.

The fall that provided the indication that her condition required
treatment was in March, 2023. Prior to that she had some vertigo when
arising from bed, but considered it just one more effect of being in
her mid-80s.

In her case, the treatments restore the crystals in place and she has
no problems for several weeks or a month or more. Then, the problem
reoccurs and she reschedules more treatments. She sees an
otolaryngologist, but our primary care physician can provide a
referral for the treatments.

She's not had another fall, but knows when to get a referral when she
starts feeling "dizzy" when getting out of bed. I can see when it's a
problem because there's a nystagmus effect (rapid, involuntary, eye
movement).

Here's a photo of her in the Epley chair:
https://tonycooper.smugmug.com/AUE-Photos/n-nw4ZxZ/i-TG9qDp8/A

She's not been prescribed a medication to use in conjunction with the
treatments. I looked up prochlorperazine, and found:

Prochlorperazine, also known as compazine, is a piperazine
phenothiazine and first-generation antipsychotic drug that is used for
the treatment of severe nausea and vomiting, as well as short-term
management of psychotic disorders such as generalized non-psychotic
anxiety and schizophrenia.

It seems to be overkill for what ails her. The vertigo is sometimes
accompanied by nausea and vomiting, but not "severe". It's allayed by
sucking on a piece of ginger candy.

Thanks for the comment, though.

[Paul Wolff]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Aidan Kehoe

[...] My wife: My wife, after a fall, was diagnosed as having "benign
paroxysmal positional vertigo" which is the displacement of the inner ear
crystals (otoconia). She was given a prescription for physical therapy by a
physical therapist who is trained in treating this disorder.
Her weekly treatments involve rotating her head and body in such a way
that the displaced crystals fall back into place. This is done both
manually and in an "Epley Chair" which she's strapped into and rotates
her entire body.
In my wife's case, the PT has been going on for over two years now.
The vertigo goes away, but then reappears a few weeks later. The
prescription is renewed (actually, in this case, called a "referral")
and she's scheduled for 15 more sessions.

!!!!!!!!!
We (doctors) do an Epley manoeuvre, explain the modified Epley manoeuvre that
the patient can do on his or her own, supply a print out, and prescribe
prochlorperazine to top up the mechanical effect. I’d be surprised if most of
the local physios routinely do Epley manoeuvres. The natural history of BPPV is
that it settles with time and typically returns after a few years. I would
worry with the above picture that there is a distinct underlying problem that
has been missed.

The fall that provided the indication that her condition required
treatment was in March, 2023. Prior to that she had some vertigo when
arising from bed, but considered it just one more effect of being in
her mid-80s.
In her case, the treatments restore the crystals in place and she has
no problems for several weeks or a month or more. Then, the problem
reoccurs and she reschedules more treatments. She sees an
otolaryngologist, but our primary care physician can provide a
referral for the treatments.
She's not had another fall, but knows when to get a referral when she
starts feeling "dizzy" when getting out of bed. I can see when it's a
problem because there's a nystagmus effect (rapid, involuntary, eye
movement).
https://tonycooper.smugmug.com/AUE-Photos/n-nw4ZxZ/i-TG9qDp8/A
She's not been prescribed a medication to use in conjunction with the
Prochlorperazine, also known as compazine, is a piperazine
phenothiazine and first-generation antipsychotic drug that is used for
the treatment of severe nausea and vomiting, as well as short-term
management of psychotic disorders such as generalized non-psychotic
anxiety and schizophrenia.
It seems to be overkill for what ails her. The vertigo is sometimes
accompanied by nausea and vomiting, but not "severe". It's allayed by
sucking on a piece of ginger candy.
Thanks for the comment, though.

When it strikes me, I call it seasickness without the sea. Someone said
the vagus nerve was involved, but what do I know. Shifting gravel in the
ears, one way or another.

'Supermarket syndrome' is another way of approaching it.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 00:14:07 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

I have a daughter who is an OT. If I have understood it correctly,
occupational theory is practiced by those with a degree in Occupational
Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of those whose
qualifications are in sports training.

In this part of the world, you are sent to an Occupational Therapist
if, due to your physical condition, you are not able to perform normal
tasks including general mobile disability.
You are sent to a Physical Therapist if you have a specific problem,
and usually a specific problem with a limb or a joint. The Physical
Therapist treats more targeted areas with the intent of short-term
recovery. ("Short-term" being, in this case, six to eight weeks.)
Sports injuries are a common cause of seeing a Physical Therapist, but
by no means the most common cause.

Yeah, for those of us past 70, the therapist is helping us keep
functioning with the parts that are wearing out and aging out.

Twenty years ago, I got massages and learned stretches and
exercises for a back pain that would not go away-- that might
have been a sports injury, and the workout stopped when the pain
went away.

Since then, it has been arthritis and aging muscles, and muscles
weakened by radiation treatment years ago. The exercises and
stretches are every day, forever, to slow down the loss of function.

I think "physical therapists" have a whole lot of overlap with
sports trainers: If the trainers can prevent injuries by choice
of exercises, so much the better.

My own latest physical therapy entails exercises with my tongue,
to reduce problems with swallowing. Not sports related.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 16:57:22 -0500, Rich Ulrich

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 00:14:07 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by navi
1) Your muscles have to stay in the habit of doing these exercises.
2) Your muscles have to stay accustomed to doing these exercises.
3) Your muscles have to stay habituated to doing these exercises.
4) Your muscles have to stay used to doing these exercises.
Which are correct?
Which are natural?

They are all correct and all are natural.
I hope no one here has to spend months in Stoke
Mandeville finding out why.

If you do, what is the difference between "Physical
Therapy" and "Occupational Therapy"?

I have a daughter who is an OT. If I have understood it correctly,
occupational theory is practiced by those with a degree in Occupational
Theory, while physical therapy is the domain of those whose
qualifications are in sports training.

In this part of the world, you are sent to an Occupational Therapist
if, due to your physical condition, you are not able to perform normal
tasks including general mobile disability.
You are sent to a Physical Therapist if you have a specific problem,
and usually a specific problem with a limb or a joint. The Physical
Therapist treats more targeted areas with the intent of short-term
recovery. ("Short-term" being, in this case, six to eight weeks.)
Sports injuries are a common cause of seeing a Physical Therapist, but
by no means the most common cause.

Yeah, for those of us past 70, the therapist is helping us keep
functioning with the parts that are wearing out and aging out.
Twenty years ago, I got massages and learned stretches and
exercises for a back pain that would not go away-- that might
have been a sports injury, and the workout stopped when the pain
went away.
Since then, it has been arthritis and aging muscles, and muscles
weakened by radiation treatment years ago. The exercises and
stretches are every day, forever, to slow down the loss of function.
I think "physical therapists" have a whole lot of overlap with
sports trainers: If the trainers can prevent injuries by choice
of exercises, so much the better.
My own latest physical therapy entails exercises with my tongue,
to reduce problems with swallowing. Not sports related.

I observed in another post that the other people being treated by the
physical therapists when I've been to one don't appear to be there for
sports related injuries. That, based on their age and appearance.

Most of my observations have been before the pickleball craze resulted
in so many Over-50 complexes adding pickleball courts.

Perhaps appearances have deceived me and the people are there now
being treated for "pickleball elbow", "croquet mallet foot",
"shuffleboard shoulder", and "bowling knee".