derogatory / derogative

What's the difference between derogatory and derogative? Is there any?
Maybe regarding context or usage?
Thx
Markus

dontbother

2006-08-26 09:49:27 UTC

Post by Markus Appel
What's the difference between derogatory and derogative? Is there
any? Maybe regarding context or usage?

I found this on the Web using Google. You could have found it there
too: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic2599.html

"derogative is another word for derogatory, which is the more common
form. It means in a way disapproving or having a low opinion of
something If you make a derogatory comment/remark about what someone
has done, you show that you don't have a good/high opinion of it."

--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/hush.ai
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

Markus Appel

2006-08-26 15:39:22 UTC

Post by Markus Appel
What's the difference between derogatory and derogative? Is there
any? Maybe regarding context or usage?

I found this on the Web using Google. You could have found it there
too: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic2599.html
"derogative is another word for derogatory, which is the more common
form. It means in a way disapproving or having a low opinion of
something If you make a derogatory comment/remark about what someone
has done, you show that you don't have a good/high opinion of it."

I'm particularly looking for slight nuances in usage, that's the point.
Are they EXACTLY the same or not?
Greets
Markus

tinwhistler

2006-08-26 17:33:27 UTC

Post by Markus Appel
I'm particularly looking for slight nuances in usage, that's the point.
Are they EXACTLY the same or not?

OED2 treats the two words with independent entries, without mentioning
either as a synonym of the other. I'm inclined to argue we have here
a distinction without a difference.
[Excerpts from the two entries:]

"derogative, adj."
Characterized by derogating; tending to derogation.

1477 in Eng. Gilds (1870) 305 Prejudiciall or derogatyve to the
liberties..of the bisshop. ...1888 Cornhill Mag. Jan. 73 Too
derogative of the intelligence of Londoners.

"derogatory, adj."
1. Having the character of derogating, of taking away or detracting
from authority, rights, or standing, of impairing in force or effect.
Const. to, from (of).

1502-3 Plumpton Corr. 174 Not intending to have his grant
derogatorie unto justice. .... 1863 H. Cox Instit. i. vi. 34 This Act
was annulled as derogatory to the King's just rights.

2. Having the effect of lowering in honour or estimation; depreciatory,
disparaging, disrespectful, lowering.

1563-87 Foxe A. & M. (1596) 1/2 The 2nd [was] derogatorie to kings
and emperors. ...1860 Farrar Orig. Lang. (1865) 40 What plans are
consonant to, and what are derogatory of God's..Infinite Wisdom.

dontbother

2006-08-26 17:40:55 UTC

Post by Markus Appel
I'm particularly looking for slight nuances in usage, that's the
point. Are they EXACTLY the same or not?

OED2 treats the two words with independent entries, without
mentioning either as a synonym of the other. I'm inclined to
argue we have here a distinction without a difference.

MW11 also points out that derogative is 15th century and derogatory is
16th century. The EFL teacher comment I posted points out that
"derogatory" is more frequently used than "derogative". That's the only
difference I see. They're equally negative and mean the same thing, but
you might get some questioning looks and even some questions from
native anglophones if you used "derogative" instead of "derogatory".

--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/hush.ai
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

tinwhistler

2006-08-26 18:32:12 UTC

Post by dontbother
you might get some questioning looks and even some questions from
native anglophones if you used "derogative" instead of "derogatory".

Yes. By way of contrast, consider the considerable difference between
"negative" and "negatory."

dontbother

2006-08-27 03:14:34 UTC

Post by dontbother
you might get some questioning looks and even some questions from
native anglophones if you used "derogative" instead of
"derogatory".

Yes. By way of contrast, consider the considerable difference
between "negative" and "negatory."

And some poor, insufficiently educated gnu is bound to complain that
she heard the offensive speciesismistic slur "gnugatory" instead.

--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/hush.ai
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

Father Ignatius

2006-08-31 12:58:18 UTC

Post by dontbother
you might get some questioning looks and even some questions from
native anglophones if you used "derogative" instead of "derogatory".

Yes. By way of contrast, consider the considerable difference between
"negative" and "negatory."

And "nougat" and "nugatory".

dontbother

2006-08-31 13:13:50 UTC

Post by Father Ignatius

Post by dontbother
you might get some questioning looks and even some questions
from native anglophones if you used "derogative" instead of
"derogatory".

Yes. By way of contrast, consider the considerable difference
between "negative" and "negatory."

And "nougat" and "nugatory".

Yep. Nugatory's hardly ever covered with high-quality chocolate.

--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/hush.ai
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

2006-08-26 18:02:21 UTC

Post by Markus Appel
What's the difference between derogatory and derogative? Is there
any? Maybe regarding context or usage?

I found this on the Web using Google. You could have found it there
too: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic2599.html
"derogative is another word for derogatory, which is the more common

'COMMONER', NOT "MORE COMMON".

Post by dontbother
form. It means in a way disapproving or having a low opinion of
something If you make a derogatory comment/remark about what someone
has done, you show that you don't have a good/high opinion of it."
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/hush.ai
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

Raymond S. Wise

2006-08-26 19:10:36 UTC

[...]

"derogative is another word for derogatory, which is the more common [form.]

'COMMONER', NOT "MORE COMMON".

"Common" is one of those words for which the comparative can be formed
either by adding the suffix "-er" to the word or by preceding the word
by "more."

--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

Skitt

2006-08-26 19:44:34 UTC

Post by Raymond S. Wise
[...]

"derogative is another word for derogatory, which is the more common [form.]

'COMMONER', NOT "MORE COMMON".

"Common" is one of those words for which the comparative can be formed
either by adding the suffix "-er" to the word or by preceding the word
by "more."

I might add that this has been a recommended subject for exploration in
linguistics studies. See "JC3. Historical corpus-based studies" at the
below URL.

http://www.lancs.ac.uk/fss/courses/ling/ling201/topics/jc.htm

--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/

Skitt

2006-08-26 19:35:30 UTC

Post by Markus Appel
What's the difference between derogatory and derogative? Is there
any? Maybe regarding context or usage?

I found this on the Web using Google. You could have found it there
too: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic2599.html
"derogative is another word for derogatory, which is the more common

'COMMONER', NOT "MORE COMMON".

About that "is more common" term -- it is far more common than the term "is
commoner". Both terms are common and perfectly fine, but the "is more
common" term is more common in usage by a ratio of about 115 to 1, some
dictionary entries to the contrary notwithstanding. If there ever was a
battle about this, it was lost a long time ago.

In the subject sentence, use of "commoner" would have introduced some
undesirable ambiguity, as the predominant meaning of the word "commoner"
refers to a particular class of people.

--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/

dontbother

2006-08-27 03:11:15 UTC

Post by Skitt

Post by Markus Appel
What's the difference between derogatory and derogative? Is
there any? Maybe regarding context or usage?

I found this on the Web using Google. You could have found it
there too: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic2599.html
"derogative is another word for derogatory, which is the more common

'COMMONER', NOT "MORE COMMON".

About that "is more common" term -- it is far more common than the
term "is commoner". Both terms are common and perfectly fine, but
the "is more common" term is more common in usage by a ratio of
about 115 to 1, some dictionary entries to the contrary
notwithstanding. If there ever was a battle about this, it was
lost a long time ago.
In the subject sentence, use of "commoner" would have introduced
some undesirable ambiguity, as the predominant meaning of the word
"commoner" refers to a particular class of people.

See my reply to Radioactive Isotope.

--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/hush.ai
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

dontbother

2006-08-27 03:09:46 UTC