Well, doggies! Way doggies! Hoo, doggies!

[Raymond S. Wise]

In alt.english.usage , we have been discussing the possible origin of "Well,
doggies!" "Way doggies!" "Hoo, doggies!" I figured it was a variation of "Oh
God!" based upon the report in AHD4 that "doggone" is an "Alteration of
Scots _dagone,_ alteration of *goddamn.*" I said "Perhaps 'Dagnabbit!'
contains the same 'dag.'" I associate "Well, doggies!" with the hill people
of Tennessee. It was, of course, used by Jed Clampett in *The Beverly
Hillbillies,* a character from Bugtussle, Tennessee. That state had a lot of
Scots Irish immigrants (aka "Scotch Irish"), and I figured that a distortion
of "God" in "Oh God!" had occurred in their dialect as that which had
occurred in Scots with "dagone."

Tony Cooper is of the opinion that "Well, doggies!" comes from the term
*dogie,* used in the Old West for a motherless calf.

So I did some research on the matter. The OED2 gives for the etymology of
"dog-gone" the following: "Generally taken as a deformation of the profane
_God damn_: cf. _dang, darn._ But some think the original form was _dog on
it,_ to be compared with _pox on it!_ etc.; Cf. *Dog* _sb.1_ 17j. [See also
_Sc. Nat. Dict._ s. v. _dag._)"

I took a look at *The Scottish National Dictionary,* Edinburgh: The Scottish
National Dictionary Association, Limited, (C) 1952. From its entry for
"dag": "DAG, Deg, Dig, Dog, _int._ Also _dags, dogs. A mild form of oath ;
used as an imprecation = confound !" It did not have "dagone," but it had
"dagon't" and "digont" and used "dagon" in an example. It also mentioned
"dags (dogs) rabbit it" and gave "dogsrabbit it" in an example. (See my
comment about "dagnabbit" given above.) The etymology it gave was "Origin
obscure. Prob. a corruption of _God_ (_damn, dang,_ etc.). Some variations
are due to confusion with _dog_ : cf. American slang _dog-doge, dog on,
doggoned it,_ id. (D.A.E.)" I was unable to find out what "D.A.E." stood
for.

I checked the *Dictionary of the American West* by Winfred Blevins, Facts on
File, (C) 1993, and *Western Words: A Dictionary of the American West* by
Ramon F. Adams, New Edition, Revised and Enlarged. Norman, Oklahoma:
University of Oklahoma Press, (C) 1968. I wanted to see if either one had
"dogie" or "doggie" as an interjection. They did not, but a comment in
Adams's book pointed out to a confusion between "dogie" and "doggie"--Tony
Cooper had thought that such a confusion had occurred with "Well, doggies!"
that it had been "Well, dogies!" From the entry for "dogie": "The term
[dogie] became popular through western songs, though a great percentage of
the singers pronounce it _doggie,_ as if they were singing of a pup."

I then checked the *Dictionary of American Regional English* ("DARE"),
Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, (C) 1991.


[quote]

*doggies, by* exclam Also _by dogies_ Cf *dog* n1 B7, *dog v 6,* and DS
NN6-9
*1956* Moody _Home Ranch_ 20 CO [Colorado] (as of 1911), "Fifty miles,
huhh!" he snorted, "By dogies." *c1970* _Halpert Coll._ *wKY, wTN* [western
Kentucky, western Tennessee], By doggies = a mild oath.

[end quote]


I tried finding what "Halpert Coll." stood for, but did not locate in in
DARE. I expect it is a book by Herbert Halpert, a folklorist who studied,
among other things, Appalachian dialectal usages.

DARE also shows "dog" used "in var euphem exclams, esp _dog bite (it), ~
take (it)_ and varr[...] It gives for the etymology "Euphem for _God._" and
identifies the use as South and South Midland.

Besides all of the above, I also learned that "doggy" has been used to mean
"Dashing, stylish, smart." (source, OED2 entry for "dog"). This could
conceivably be a source of "Well, doggies!"

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:51:36 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise
In alt.english.usage , we have been discussing the possible origin of "Well,
doggies!" "Way doggies!" "Hoo, doggies!" I figured it was a variation of "Oh
God!" based upon the report in AHD4 that "doggone" is an "Alteration of
Scots _dagone,_ alteration of *goddamn.*" I said "Perhaps 'Dagnabbit!'
contains the same 'dag.'" I associate "Well, doggies!" with the hill people
of Tennessee. It was, of course, used by Jed Clampett in *The Beverly
Hillbillies,* a character from Bugtussle, Tennessee. That state had a lot of
Scots Irish immigrants (aka "Scotch Irish"), and I figured that a distortion
of "God" in "Oh God!" had occurred in their dialect as that which had
occurred in Scots with "dagone."

Who is this Jed Clampett? The *character* Jed Clampett was played by
Buddy Ebsen. Buddy was born in Illinois and grew up in - surprise! -
Florida. His family moved to Orlando when he was 10. I know people
whose parents went to school with Christian (known as Buddy) Ebsen.
He attended University of Florida.

His lines were written by a crew of writers. We don't really know if
any of them were even in Tennessee, let alone grew up there. The
phrase spoken by Buddy could have been written by someone from
Brooklyn (Bigger than Bugtussle but still not a city) New York for all
we know.

All that said, I don't disagree that it might be a term from
Tennessee, and a term that evolved from some Scots Irish immigrant
descendants. I just have trouble making this association because an
actor, dancer, and former pre-med student uttered the line in a
television sitcom.

Post by Raymond S. Wise
Tony Cooper is of the opinion that "Well, doggies!" comes from the term
*dogie,* used in the Old West for a motherless calf.

Yes, I think that's the more likely source. And, as I wrote in the
other group, I think it's likely that Tennesseans picked up the term
from Gene Autry Saturday oater matinees and his continual wailing of
"Git along little dogies". It's conjecture on my part, but that's
what I think.

[meirman]

In alt.english.usage on Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:55:47 -0400 Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:51:36 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise
In alt.english.usage , we have been discussing the possible origin of "Well,
doggies!" "Way doggies!" "Hoo, doggies!" I figured it was a variation of "Oh
God!" based upon the report in AHD4 that "doggone" is an "Alteration of
Scots _dagone,_ alteration of *goddamn.*" I said "Perhaps 'Dagnabbit!'
contains the same 'dag.'" I associate "Well, doggies!" with the hill people
of Tennessee. It was, of course, used by Jed Clampett in *The Beverly
Hillbillies,* a character from Bugtussle, Tennessee. That state had a lot of
Scots Irish immigrants (aka "Scotch Irish"), and I figured that a distortion
of "God" in "Oh God!" had occurred in their dialect as that which had
occurred in Scots with "dagone."

Who is this Jed Clampett? The *character* Jed Clampett was played by
Buddy Ebsen. Buddy was born in Illinois and grew up in - surprise! -
Florida. His family moved to Orlando when he was 10. I know people
whose parents went to school with Christian (known as Buddy) Ebsen.
He attended University of Florida.
His lines were written by a crew of writers.

That's why Ray said that it was Jed Clampett who used the word, not
Buddy Ebsen.

Post by Tony Cooper
We don't really know if
any of them were even in Tennessee, let alone grew up there. The
phrase spoken by Buddy could have been written by someone from
Brooklyn

You have a point.

Post by Tony Cooper
(Bigger than Bugtussle but still not a city) New York for all
we know.

I believe Brooklyn is the 4th biggest city in the country. (Although
it may have been passed by now by some others in the last 25 years.)

Post by Tony Cooper
All that said, I don't disagree that it might be a term from
Tennessee, and a term that evolved from some Scots Irish immigrant
descendants. I just have trouble making this association because an
actor, dancer, and former pre-med student uttered the line in a
television sitcom.

Post by Raymond S. Wise
Tony Cooper is of the opinion that "Well, doggies!" comes from the term
*dogie,* used in the Old West for a motherless calf.

Yes, I think that's the more likely source. And, as I wrote in the
other group, I think it's likely that Tennesseans picked up the term
from Gene Autry Saturday oater matinees and his continual wailing of
"Git along little dogies". It's conjecture on my part, but that's
what I think.

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.

Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

[Areff]

Post by meirman
I believe Brooklyn is the 4th biggest city in the country. (Although
it may have been passed by now by some others in the last 25 years.)

No, Brooklyn is still the 4th Largest City in America, still way ahead of
Houston.

--

[Skitt]

Post by meirman

We don't really know if any of them were even in Tennessee,
let alone grew up there. The phrase spoken by Buddy could
have been written by someone from Brooklyn

You have a point.

(Bigger than Bugtussle but still not a city) New York for all
we know.

I believe Brooklyn is the 4th biggest city in the country. (Although
it may have been passed by now by some others in the last 25 years.)

In 1898, upon being consolidated into Greater New York and becoming a
borough of it, did Brooklyn retain its city status? I don't know.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/7589/history.htm

[Sara Lorimer]

Post by Skitt

Post by meirman
I believe Brooklyn is the 4th biggest city in the country. (Although
it may have been passed by now by some others in the last 25 years.)

In 1898, upon being consolidated into Greater New York and becoming a
borough of it, did Brooklyn retain its city status? I don't know.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/7589/history.htm

I believe that was a reference to Areff's personal Burma / Myanmar.

[Martin Ambuhl]

Post by Skitt
In 1898, upon being consolidated into Greater New York and becoming a
borough of it, did Brooklyn retain its city status? I don't know.

It is not acceptable to invoke the Rape of Brooklyn as a reason to deny
Brooklyn its status of a city. Anschluss be damned.

BTW, the borough that voted most strongly in favor of consolidation
(Richmond County / Staten Island) is the one which perennially tries to
get their seccession on the ballot.

[R H Draney]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:51:36 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise
In alt.english.usage , we have been discussing the possible origin of "Well,
doggies!" "Way doggies!" "Hoo, doggies!" I figured it was a variation of "Oh
God!" based upon the report in AHD4 that "doggone" is an "Alteration of
Scots _dagone,_ alteration of *goddamn.*" I said "Perhaps 'Dagnabbit!'
contains the same 'dag.'" I associate "Well, doggies!" with the hill people
of Tennessee. It was, of course, used by Jed Clampett in *The Beverly
Hillbillies,* a character from Bugtussle, Tennessee. That state had a lot of
Scots Irish immigrants (aka "Scotch Irish"), and I figured that a distortion
of "God" in "Oh God!" had occurred in their dialect as that which had
occurred in Scots with "dagone."

His lines were written by a crew of writers. We don't really know if
any of them were even in Tennessee, let alone grew up there. The
phrase spoken by Buddy could have been written by someone from
Brooklyn (Bigger than Bugtussle but still not a city) New York for all
we know.

I don't know that "The Beverly Hillbillies" ever specified where the Clampett's
home was, other than "back in the hills"...nor do I remember seeing the place
name on a sign or in other written form...so it may have been one of these (from
GNIS):

3 feature records have been selected from GNIS.
Feature Name St County Equivalent Name USGS 7.5' Map
Bug Tussle OK Pittsburg 350151N 0954123W Crowder
Bug Tussle TX Fannin 332901N 0955636W Ladonia
Bug Tussle (historical) TX Fannin UNKNOWN UNKNOWN Unknown

Somewhere around here I have similar data for Hooterville, Pixley, and Crabwell
Corners, supposed to be near Bug Tussle...I think I decided they actually had to
be in central California....r

[Raymond S. Wise]

Post by R H Draney

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:51:36 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise
In alt.english.usage , we have been discussing the possible origin of "Well,
doggies!" "Way doggies!" "Hoo, doggies!" I figured it was a variation of "Oh
God!" based upon the report in AHD4 that "doggone" is an "Alteration of
Scots _dagone,_ alteration of *goddamn.*" I said "Perhaps 'Dagnabbit!'
contains the same 'dag.'" I associate "Well, doggies!" with the hill people
of Tennessee. It was, of course, used by Jed Clampett in *The Beverly
Hillbillies,* a character from Bugtussle, Tennessee. That state had a lot of
Scots Irish immigrants (aka "Scotch Irish"), and I figured that a distortion
of "God" in "Oh God!" had occurred in their dialect as that which had
occurred in Scots with "dagone."

His lines were written by a crew of writers. We don't really know if
any of them were even in Tennessee, let alone grew up there. The
phrase spoken by Buddy could have been written by someone from
Brooklyn (Bigger than Bugtussle but still not a city) New York for all
we know.

I don't know that "The Beverly Hillbillies" ever specified where the Clampett's
home was, other than "back in the hills"...nor do I remember seeing the place
name on a sign or in other written form...so it may have been one of these (from
3 feature records have been selected from GNIS.
Feature Name St County Equivalent Name USGS 7.5' Map
Bug Tussle OK Pittsburg 350151N 0954123W Crowder
Bug Tussle TX Fannin 332901N 0955636W Ladonia
Bug Tussle (historical) TX Fannin UNKNOWN UNKNOWN Unknown
Somewhere around here I have similar data for Hooterville, Pixley, and Crabwell
Corners, supposed to be near Bug Tussle...I think I decided they actually had to
be in central California....r

From the trivia page for the program *The Beverly Hillbillies* in the
Internet Movie Database:

From
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055662/trivia


"The name of the Clampetts' hometown was Bugtussle, Tennessee."

Not that "Bugtussle" is spelled as one word. The author of the Web page at

http://www.jerryosborne.com/3-23-98.htm

is making an argument for Bugtussle (spelling it "Bug Tussle), Kentucky, it
would seem, but www.placesnamed.com and Yahoo! Maps both show Bugtussle,
Tennessee and Bugtussle, Kentucky to be located in the same place: Twin
cities, it would seem.

That article also has an argument for the Clampetts coming from Missouri.
None of this, or even the movie's placing them in Arkansas, would work
against my idea that "Well, doggies!" was the product of Scots-Irish
immigrants.

[JNugent]

Post by Raymond S. Wise
"The name of the Clampetts' hometown was Bugtussle, Tennessee."
Not that "Bugtussle" is spelled as one word. The author of the Web page at
http://www.jerryosborne.com/3-23-98.htm
is making an argument for Bugtussle (spelling it "Bug Tussle),
Kentucky, it would seem, but www.placesnamed.com and Yahoo! Maps both
show Bugtussle, Tennessee and Bugtussle, Kentucky to be located in
the same place: Twin cities, it would seem.
That article also has an argument for the Clampetts coming from
Missouri. None of this, or even the movie's placing them in Arkansas,
would work against my idea that "Well, doggies!" was the product of
Scots-Irish immigrants.

TBHs was one of my favourite programmes of the period, and, IMHO, just about
the best USA sit-com ever.

It was no "Fawlty Towers", but still damned good.

I am certain that I heard more than one character refer to "back home" as
being in Tennessee.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.734 / Virus Database: 488 - Release Date: 04/08/04

[Raymond S. Wise]

"Raymond S. Wise" <***@gbronline.com> wrote in message news:<ge6dnYJqwYP4UobcRVn-***@gbronline.com>...


[...]

Post by Raymond S. Wise
From the trivia page for the program *The Beverly Hillbillies* in the
From
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055662/trivia
"The name of the Clampetts' hometown was Bugtussle, Tennessee."
Not that "Bugtussle" is spelled as one word. The author of the Web page at

Make that "Note that 'Bugtussle' is spelled as one word."

Post by Raymond S. Wise
http://www.jerryosborne.com/3-23-98.htm
is making an argument for Bugtussle (spelling it "Bug Tussle), Kentucky, it
would seem, but www.placesnamed.com and Yahoo! Maps both show Bugtussle,
Tennessee and Bugtussle, Kentucky to be located in the same place: Twin
cities, it would seem.
That article also has an argument for the Clampetts coming from Missouri.
None of this, or even the movie's placing them in Arkansas, would work
against my idea that "Well, doggies!" was the product of Scots-Irish
immigrants.

[CB]

Post by Raymond S. Wise
In alt.english.usage , we have been discussing the possible origin of "Well,
doggies!" "Way doggies!" "Hoo, doggies!" I figured it was a variation of "Oh
God!" based upon the report in AHD4 that "doggone" is an "Alteration of
Scots _dagone,_ alteration of *goddamn.*" I said "Perhaps 'Dagnabbit!'
contains the same 'dag.'" I associate "Well, doggies!" with the hill people
of Tennessee. It was, of course, used by Jed Clampett in *The Beverly
Hillbillies,* a character from Bugtussle, Tennessee. That state had a lot of
Scots Irish immigrants (aka "Scotch Irish"), and I figured that a distortion
of "God" in "Oh God!" had occurred in their dialect as that which had
occurred in Scots with "dagone."
Tony Cooper is of the opinion that "Well, doggies!" comes from the term
*dogie,* used in the Old West for a motherless calf.
So I did some research on the matter. The OED2 gives for the etymology of
"dog-gone" the following: "Generally taken as a deformation of the profane
_God damn_: cf. _dang, darn._ But some think the original form was _dog on
it,_ to be compared with _pox on it!_ etc.; Cf. *Dog* _sb.1_ 17j. [See also
_Sc. Nat. Dict._ s. v. _dag._)"
I took a look at *The Scottish National Dictionary,* Edinburgh: The Scottish
National Dictionary Association, Limited, (C) 1952. From its entry for
"dag": "DAG, Deg, Dig, Dog, _int._ Also _dags, dogs. A mild form of oath ;
used as an imprecation = confound !" It did not have "dagone," but it had
"dagon't" and "digont" and used "dagon" in an example. It also mentioned
"dags (dogs) rabbit it" and gave "dogsrabbit it" in an example. (See my
comment about "dagnabbit" given above.) The etymology it gave was "Origin
obscure. Prob. a corruption of _God_ (_damn, dang,_ etc.). Some variations
are due to confusion with _dog_ : cf. American slang _dog-doge, dog on,
doggoned it,_ id. (D.A.E.)" I was unable to find out what "D.A.E." stood
for.
I checked the *Dictionary of the American West* by Winfred Blevins, Facts on
File, (C) 1993, and *Western Words: A Dictionary of the American West* by
University of Oklahoma Press, (C) 1968. I wanted to see if either one had
"dogie" or "doggie" as an interjection. They did not, but a comment in
Adams's book pointed out to a confusion between "dogie" and "doggie"--Tony
Cooper had thought that such a confusion had occurred with "Well, doggies!"
that it had been "Well, dogies!" From the entry for "dogie": "The term
[dogie] became popular through western songs, though a great percentage of
the singers pronounce it _doggie,_ as if they were singing of a pup."
I then checked the *Dictionary of American Regional English* ("DARE"),
Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, (C) 1991.
[quote]
*doggies, by* exclam Also _by dogies_ Cf *dog* n1 B7, *dog v 6,* and DS
NN6-9
*1956* Moody _Home Ranch_ 20 CO [Colorado] (as of 1911), "Fifty miles,
huhh!" he snorted, "By dogies." *c1970* _Halpert Coll._ *wKY, wTN* [western
Kentucky, western Tennessee], By doggies = a mild oath.
[end quote]
I tried finding what "Halpert Coll." stood for, but did not locate in in
DARE. I expect it is a book by Herbert Halpert, a folklorist who studied,
among other things, Appalachian dialectal usages.
DARE also shows "dog" used "in var euphem exclams, esp _dog bite (it), ~
take (it)_ and varr[...] It gives for the etymology "Euphem for _God._" and
identifies the use as South and South Midland.
Besides all of the above, I also learned that "doggy" has been used to mean
"Dashing, stylish, smart." (source, OED2 entry for "dog"). This could
conceivably be a source of "Well, doggies!"

If you get your fur coat from China, you can really put on the dog. Thank
you for the definitive rundown, which I couldn't bring myself to snip. I
still think it's an avoidance of "God", though. Blasphemy back when was a
more serious thing than we can easily bellyfeel. CDB

[Raymond S. Wise]

"CB" <***@sprint.ca> wrote in message news:JUISc.496$***@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...


[...]

If you get your fur coat from China, you can really put on the dog. [...]

OED2 had, in definition 17.p. under the entry for the noun "dog," "to put on
dog." It was defined as "to assume pretentious airs, _colloq._ Hence _dog_
(ellipt.) pretentiousness, 'side'." Definition 17.q. is _like a dog's
dinner_ : used of someone or something dressed or arranged in an
ostentatiously smart or flashy manner."

I had never seen this particular take on the expression, which I would
usually take to mean simply "to dress up," as for a special occasion, and I
had never seen the expression used without the article: "to put on the dog."
Michael Quinion, in his *World Wide Words* column at

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-put1.htm

says that he himself learned it as "to put on dog," and he gives a possible
origin for it (from the post-Civil War custom of ladies having as pets lap
dogs), although he seems pretty skeptical about it.

[CB]

Post by Raymond S. Wise
[...]

Post by CB
If you get your fur coat from China, you can really put on the dog.

[...]

Post by Raymond S. Wise
OED2 had, in definition 17.p. under the entry for the noun "dog," "to put on
dog." It was defined as "to assume pretentious airs, _colloq._ Hence _dog_
(ellipt.) pretentiousness, 'side'." Definition 17.q. is _like a dog's
dinner_ : used of someone or something dressed or arranged in an
ostentatiously smart or flashy manner."
I had never seen this particular take on the expression, which I would
usually take to mean simply "to dress up," as for a special occasion, and I
had never seen the expression used without the article: "to put on the dog."
Michael Quinion, in his *World Wide Words* column at
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-put1.htm
says that he himself learned it as "to put on dog," and he gives a possible
origin for it (from the post-Civil War custom of ladies having as pets lap
dogs), although he seems pretty skeptical about it.

I share his skepticism. Folk etymology snarling from the lap of ignorance.
I too have heard it used mostly to mean dressing up. One possible link
between the dressed-up dog and the pretentious breakfast-eating dog is the
general tendency (only my observation here) to use the phrase playfully or
ironically. Maybe it was originally a slighting usage. CDB

[Ally]

Is the term generally use doggies or dogies in plural?

What I've always heard is "Way, doggie!" (singilar) - but I'm I'm from
the Eastern side of the pond.

Ally

[Raymond S. Wise]

Post by Ally
Is the term generally use doggies or dogies in plural?
What I've always heard is "Way, doggie!" (singilar) - but I'm I'm from
the Eastern side of the pond.

I've never heard "dogie" used in any interjection, and I don't think I've
heard "doggie" used either. I've heard "Well, doggies!" expressed by Jed
Clampett, a character from Tennessee in *The Beverly Hillbillies,* and I
think I've heard it elsewhere (probably in the movies), but I can't point to
any particular instance. I found on the Internet many examples of "Hoo,
doggies!" with various numbers of "o"s in "hoo." I did find that example
from the *Dictionary of Regional American English* of the interjections "By
doggies!" and "By dogies!"


[quote]

*doggies, by* exclam Also _by dogies_ Cf *dog* n1 B7, *dog v 6,* and DS
NN6-9
*1956* Moody _Home Ranch_ 20 CO [Colorado] (as of 1911), "Fifty miles,
huhh!" he snorted, "By dogies." *c1970* _Halpert Coll._ *wKY, wTN* [western
Kentucky, western Tennessee], By doggies = a mild oath.

[end quote]


I was looking for any example of "dogie" in an interjection, and did not
find any.

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:08:03 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by Ally
Is the term generally use doggies or dogies in plural?
What I've always heard is "Way, doggie!" (singilar) - but I'm I'm from
the Eastern side of the pond.

I've never heard "dogie" used in any interjection, and I don't think I've
heard "doggie" used either. I've heard "Well, doggies!" expressed by Jed
Clampett, a character from Tennessee in *The Beverly Hillbillies,* and I
think I've heard it elsewhere (probably in the movies), but I can't point to
any particular instance.

Let me reiterate that I don't question the source of the expression to
be what you have come up with. I'm stuck, though, on using Jed
Clampett's character as some sort of verification. Sitcoms,
especially ones like "Beverly Hillbillies", are not known to have
researchers that check for accuracy in dialect, accent, expressions,
costumes, or damned near anything.

It could be that one of the writers grew up in the hills of Tennessee
and used a line that his grandmother used when she had her teeth in.
It's just as likely, though, that the writer was from the Greater
Laurel vastland and heard the expression from a clam digger cousin
that thought Tennessee was in the wild, wild West. Kind of a Areffian
geography mover.

Please, if you want to give credence to your theory, abandon Jeb's
character as an example. It's like using Tony Curtis's dialog to
verify how they spoke in King Arthur's Court.

[Areff]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:08:03 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by Ally
Is the term generally use doggies or dogies in plural?
What I've always heard is "Way, doggie!" (singilar) - but I'm I'm from
the Eastern side of the pond.

I've never heard "dogie" used in any interjection, and I don't think I've
heard "doggie" used either. I've heard "Well, doggies!" expressed by Jed
Clampett, a character from Tennessee in *The Beverly Hillbillies,* and I
think I've heard it elsewhere (probably in the movies), but I can't point to
any particular instance.

Let me reiterate that I don't question the source of the expression to
be what you have come up with. I'm stuck, though, on using Jed
Clampett's character as some sort of verification. Sitcoms,
especially ones like "Beverly Hillbillies", are not known to have
researchers that check for accuracy in dialect, accent, expressions,
costumes, or damned near anything.
It could be that one of the writers grew up in the hills of Tennessee
and used a line that his grandmother used when she had her teeth in.
It's just as likely, though, that the writer was from the Greater
Laurel vastland and heard the expression from a clam digger cousin
that thought Tennessee was in the wild, wild West. Kind of a Areffian
geography mover.
Please, if you want to give credence to your theory, abandon Jeb's
character as an example.

That's Jed, Coop. Jeb's character is the one in Flo'ida.

--

[Raymond S. Wise]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:08:03 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by Ally
Is the term generally use doggies or dogies in plural?
What I've always heard is "Way, doggie!" (singilar) - but I'm I'm from
the Eastern side of the pond.

I've never heard "dogie" used in any interjection, and I don't think I've
heard "doggie" used either. I've heard "Well, doggies!" expressed by Jed
Clampett, a character from Tennessee in *The Beverly Hillbillies,* and I
think I've heard it elsewhere (probably in the movies), but I can't point to
any particular instance.

Let me reiterate that I don't question the source of the expression to
be what you have come up with. I'm stuck, though, on using Jed
Clampett's character as some sort of verification. Sitcoms,
especially ones like "Beverly Hillbillies", are not known to have
researchers that check for accuracy in dialect, accent, expressions,
costumes, or damned near anything.
It could be that one of the writers grew up in the hills of Tennessee
and used a line that his grandmother used when she had her teeth in.
It's just as likely, though, that the writer was from the Greater
Laurel vastland and heard the expression from a clam digger cousin
that thought Tennessee was in the wild, wild West. Kind of a Areffian
geography mover.
Please, if you want to give credence to your theory, abandon Jeb's
character as an example. It's like using Tony Curtis's dialog to
verify how they spoke in King Arthur's Court.

I can't agree with you, Tony. We know the writers got at least *some* things
right ("victuals"/"vittles" for food and "possum" for "opossum," for
example). While researching the matter at the University of Minnesota, I
came across the title of a book which may address the question:
*Hillbillyland: What the Movies Did to the Mountains and What the Mountains
Did to the Movies* by J.W. Williamson, (C) 1995. (I'm not going to look at
it any time soon, though, since I've come down with a rather nasty cold and
I'm not going anywhere for a while.)

May I point out that you have no proof that "dogies" was ever used in an
interjection besides my cite from the *Dictionary of American Regional
English* for "By dogies!" used in Colorado, which also has the form "By
doggies!" in Tennessee and Kentucky? And the sense drift from "Oh God!" to
an interjection about something impressive or special makes more sense than
anything which could possibly have happened with "dogie." (Compare "Well,
I'll be darned," in which a reference to damnation is being used about
something which impresses the speaker.)

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:16:34 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:08:03 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"

Post by Raymond S. Wise

Post by Ally
Is the term generally use doggies or dogies in plural?
What I've always heard is "Way, doggie!" (singilar) - but I'm I'm from
the Eastern side of the pond.

I've never heard "dogie" used in any interjection, and I don't think I've
heard "doggie" used either. I've heard "Well, doggies!" expressed by Jed
Clampett, a character from Tennessee in *The Beverly Hillbillies,* and I
think I've heard it elsewhere (probably in the movies), but I can't point

to

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Raymond S. Wise
any particular instance.

Let me reiterate that I don't question the source of the expression to
be what you have come up with. I'm stuck, though, on using Jed
Clampett's character as some sort of verification. Sitcoms,
especially ones like "Beverly Hillbillies", are not known to have
researchers that check for accuracy in dialect, accent, expressions,
costumes, or damned near anything.
It could be that one of the writers grew up in the hills of Tennessee
and used a line that his grandmother used when she had her teeth in.
It's just as likely, though, that the writer was from the Greater
Laurel vastland and heard the expression from a clam digger cousin
that thought Tennessee was in the wild, wild West. Kind of a Areffian
geography mover.
Please, if you want to give credence to your theory, abandon Jeb's
character as an example. It's like using Tony Curtis's dialog to
verify how they spoke in King Arthur's Court.

I can't agree with you, Tony. We know the writers got at least *some* things
right ("victuals"/"vittles" for food and "possum" for "opossum," for
example).

It's a pretty big leap from "vittles" and "possum" to accepting
Scots-Whatever influence on phrases.

Post by Raymond S. Wise
While researching the matter at the University of Minnesota, I
*Hillbillyland: What the Movies Did to the Mountains and What the Mountains
Did to the Movies* by J.W. Williamson, (C) 1995. (I'm not going to look at
it any time soon, though, since I've come down with a rather nasty cold and
I'm not going anywhere for a while.)
May I point out that you have no proof that "dogies" was ever used in an
interjection

Didn't I clearly state in an earlier post that I was making a
conjecture? Didn't I indicate throughout the posting run that I was
expressing opinion? Neither conjecture nor opinion requires proof.
If proof was available, it wouldn't be conjecture or opinion.

Post by Raymond S. Wise
besides my cite from the *Dictionary of American Regional
English* for "By dogies!" used in Colorado, which also has the form "By
doggies!" in Tennessee and Kentucky? And the sense drift from "Oh God!" to
an interjection about something impressive or special makes more sense than
anything which could possibly have happened with "dogie." (Compare "Well,
I'll be darned," in which a reference to damnation is being used about
something which impresses the speaker.)

It's a good theory, and I don't dispute it. I don't buy it 100%,
though, so I'll hold out "doggies/dogies" as a reasonable alternative.

[Charles Riggs]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:34:32 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
Didn't I clearly state in an earlier post that I was making a
conjecture? Didn't I indicate throughout the posting run that I was
expressing opinion? Neither conjecture nor opinion requires proof.
If proof was available, it wouldn't be conjecture or opinion.

A 78-line post warrants this little gem? Boooring.

Boooring and sounding a bit like the petulant CJ. Can CJ be Coop in
disguise?

[Dr Robin Bignall]

Post by Charles Riggs
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:34:32 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
Didn't I clearly state in an earlier post that I was making a
conjecture? Didn't I indicate throughout the posting run that I was
expressing opinion? Neither conjecture nor opinion requires proof.
If proof was available, it wouldn't be conjecture or opinion.

A 78-line post warrants this little gem? Boooring.
Boooring and sounding a bit like the petulant CJ. Can CJ be Coop in
disguise?

Who nose?

[meirman]

In alt.english.usage on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:51:36 -0500 "Raymond S.

Post by Raymond S. Wise
DARE also shows "dog" used "in var euphem exclams, esp _dog bite (it), ~
take (it)_ and varr[...] It gives for the etymology "Euphem for _God._" and
identifies the use as South and South Midland.

What I don't understand is calling this a euphemism. I thought a
eupehmism was a nice sounding word for a bad sounding word, like
funeral director for mortician, or mortician for undertaker. What is
bad-sounding about "God"?

Shouldn't the word be "periphrastic" or "periphrasm" (if the second
exists) or somethign else.

It's certain uses that are objected to for religious reasons**, so
"God" is replaced by a word that *doesn't* mean God. If it *meant*
God, it wouldn't serve the purpose.

**(although the reasons are different for Jews and Christians)

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.

Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

[Raymond S. Wise]

Post by meirman
In alt.english.usage on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:51:36 -0500 "Raymond S.

Post by Raymond S. Wise
DARE also shows "dog" used "in var euphem exclams, esp _dog bite (it), ~
take (it)_ and varr[...] It gives for the etymology "Euphem for _God._" and
identifies the use as South and South Midland.

What I don't understand is calling this a euphemism. I thought a
eupehmism was a nice sounding word for a bad sounding word, like
funeral director for mortician, or mortician for undertaker. What is
bad-sounding about "God"?
Shouldn't the word be "periphrastic" or "periphrasm" (if the second
exists) or somethign else.
It's certain uses that are objected to for religious reasons**, so
"God" is replaced by a word that *doesn't* mean God. If it *meant*
God, it wouldn't serve the purpose.
**(although the reasons are different for Jews and Christians)

From the definition for "euphemism" in the *Merriam-Webster Online
Dictionary* at www.m-w.com :


"the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may
offend or suggest something unpleasant; also : the expression so
substituted"


Under certain circumstances, of course, the use of the words "God" or
"Jesus Christ" may offend, and so are replaced with euphemisms. I would have
suggested in the above definition "less offensive" for "inoffensive,"
because I think many euphemisms will still offend in some circumstances. I
expect that in some company a man used to saying "Tarnation!" would replace
it with something less offensive, and there are Christians today who are
opposed to the use of "Gee!" because they know it comes from "Jesus!" and
consider that it is still violates the commandment "Thou shalt not take the
name of the LORD thy God in vain."

[Mike Lyle]

"Raymond S. Wise" <***@gbronline.com> wrote in message news:<GdadnRHjDMm9uoHcRVn-***@gbronline.com>...
[...exhaustive, I think, discussion about doggies and dogies...]

And so to "Way!".

Oxford Atlas of English Dialects lists 'Way', 'Wo' (commonly spelled
'whoa'), and in two small areas 'Ho' and 'Wee', as the principal
variant words used to tell an animal (over-specifically, IMO, a horse)
to stop. (Other words are listed but not mapped.) It says 'Way' is
recorded only from the mid-19C.

Is there any sign that 'Way', if found at all, was more recent in AmE,
too?

Are there any interesting alternatives in NAm use?

Mike.

[Areff]

Post by Mike Lyle
Oxford Atlas of English Dialects lists 'Way', 'Wo' (commonly spelled
'whoa'), and in two small areas 'Ho' and 'Wee', as the principal
variant words used to tell an animal (over-specifically, IMO, a horse)
to stop. (Other words are listed but not mapped.) It says 'Way' is
recorded only from the mid-19C.
Is there any sign that 'Way', if found at all, was more recent in AmE,
too?
Are there any interesting alternatives in NAm use?

NTIKO. "Whoa" is culturally standard.

--

[Mike Mooney]

Post by Mike Lyle
Oxford Atlas of English Dialects lists 'Way', 'Wo' (commonly spelled
'whoa'), and in two small areas 'Ho' and 'Wee'

I'm a little bit "Way", I'm a little bit "Whoa", I'm a geezer. Know what I
mean?

No, of course you don't.

Mike M
Friday afternoon mode

[John Dean]

Post by Mike Lyle
think, discussion about doggies and dogies...]
And so to "Way!".
Oxford Atlas of English Dialects lists 'Way', 'Wo' (commonly spelled
'whoa'), and in two small areas 'Ho' and 'Wee', as the principal
variant words used to tell an animal (over-specifically, IMO, a horse)
to stop. (Other words are listed but not mapped.) It says 'Way' is
recorded only from the mid-19C.
Is there any sign that 'Way', if found at all, was more recent in AmE,
too?

Way down yonder in New Orleans

[Mike Lyle]

Post by John Dean

Post by Mike Lyle
think, discussion about doggies and dogies...]
And so to "Way!".
Oxford Atlas of English Dialects lists 'Way', 'Wo' (commonly spelled
'whoa'), and in two small areas 'Ho' and 'Wee', as the principal
variant words used to tell an animal (over-specifically, IMO, a horse)
to stop. (Other words are listed but not mapped.) It says 'Way' is
recorded only from the mid-19C.
Is there any sign that 'Way', if found at all, was more recent in AmE,
too?

Way down yonder in New Orleans

Turn you loose in Nawlins, and there'd be be no doggone "Whoa!" about
it, ***@sho'.

Mike.

[John Dean]

Post by Mike Lyle

Post by John Dean

Post by Mike Lyle
think, discussion about doggies and dogies...]
And so to "Way!".
Oxford Atlas of English Dialects lists 'Way', 'Wo' (commonly spelled
'whoa'), and in two small areas 'Ho' and 'Wee', as the principal
variant words used to tell an animal (over-specifically, IMO, a
horse) to stop. (Other words are listed but not mapped.) It says
'Way' is recorded only from the mid-19C.
Is there any sign that 'Way', if found at all, was more recent in
AmE, too?

Way down yonder in New Orleans

Turn you loose in Nawlins, and there'd be be no doggone "Whoa!" about

Fo shizzle my nizzle?

[Areff]

Post by John Dean
Fo shizzle my nizzle?

LOL!!! Ghetto!!!!

--