Discussion:
asservation
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t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
2003-10-29 22:42:56 UTC
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Is 'asservation' a word? The closest match I find in my dictionary
is 'asseveration', and the possibly related 'acervation'.
John Dean
2003-10-30 00:04:32 UTC
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Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
Is 'asservation' a word?
Yes, but it's obsolete now.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
2003-10-30 11:38:40 UTC
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Post by John Dean
Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
Is 'asservation' a word?
Yes, but it's obsolete now.
I asked my wife about it this morning ... she fell on some stairs yesterday
... has a big purple bruise today ... says she experienced her own personal
asseveration. She says she used to know what 'asseveration' meant, but
she has been adumbrated by her English teachers to remove any fancy
words from her writing. She says she now has a sparse writing style
and but has forgotten all the big words.

Today's vent: Why can't I buy a large coffee at Starbuck's? What the hell
is a 'venti'?
Harvey Van Sickle
2003-10-30 11:52:05 UTC
Permalink
On 30 Oct 2003, wrote

-snip-
Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
Today's vent: Why can't I buy a large coffee at Starbuck's? What
the hell is a 'venti'?
If it's like the few coffees I've had at Starbucks, it's a large cup
with a small dribble of coffee at the bottom, filled up with over-
aerated milk foam.

Basically, Starbucks sells air.
--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
2003-10-30 11:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
Basically, Starbucks sells air.
Caramel flavored air, if you get a macchiato. That must be the coffee
equivalent of drinking a Big Mac.
Harvey Van Sickle
2003-10-30 12:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
Basically, Starbucks sells air.
Caramel flavored air, if you get a macchiato. That must be the coffee
equivalent of drinking a Big Mac.
ObAUE: When I was a child, we pronounced "caramel" with two syllables,
as "karr-mel". Does this survive? (I switched to "car-a-mel" many
years ago, but my mind's ear refuses to hear that form coupled with
"apple".)
--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
Aaron J. Dinkin
2003-10-30 15:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
ObAUE: When I was a child, we pronounced "caramel" with two syllables,
as "karr-mel". Does this survive? (I switched to "car-a-mel" many
years ago, but my mind's ear refuses to hear that form coupled with
"apple".)
They're about equally common among respondents to Bert Vaux's online
survey; the two-syllable version seems to be more prevalent in the
Midwest and the three-syllable version elsewhere.

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/staticmaps/q_4.html

I say "candy apple", not "caramel apple", to mean 'caramel apple', but if
I did, I'd say "caramel" with three syllables there, same as everywhere
else I say it. In "caramelized [onions]" I think I vary freely between
the two pronunciations of "caramel".

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Harvey Van Sickle
2003-10-30 16:53:57 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:36:44 GMT, Harvey Van Sickle
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
ObAUE: When I was a child, we pronounced "caramel" with two
syllables, as "karr-mel". Does this survive? (I switched to
"car-a-mel" many years ago, but my mind's ear refuses to hear
that form coupled with "apple".)
They're about equally common among respondents to Bert Vaux's
online survey; the two-syllable version seems to be more prevalent
in the Midwest and the three-syllable version elsewhere.
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/staticmaps/q_4.html
Thanks for the link; very intereseting. (I see the two-syllable
version clusters towards the Canadian border -- I wonder if that
reflects a stronger use of it in Canada).
--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
Pat Durkin
2003-10-30 17:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:36:44 GMT, Harvey Van Sickle
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
ObAUE: When I was a child, we pronounced "caramel" with two
syllables, as "karr-mel". Does this survive? (I switched to
"car-a-mel" many years ago, but my mind's ear refuses to hear
that form coupled with "apple".)
They're about equally common among respondents to Bert Vaux's
online survey; the two-syllable version seems to be more prevalent
in the Midwest and the three-syllable version elsewhere.
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/staticmaps/q_4.html
Thanks for the link; very intereseting. (I see the two-syllable
version clusters towards the Canadian border -- I wonder if that
reflects a stronger use of it in Canada).
I still say "carmel" as in "carmel dapple", and "carmel corn". This is the
second day in a row (arow?) that that site has drawn me to it. Yesterday I
looked at the Wisconsin references, with which I am probably in 90%
conformity.
R F
2003-10-30 18:14:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
Post by Harvey Van Sickle
Basically, Starbucks sells air.
Caramel flavored air, if you get a macchiato. That must be the coffee
equivalent of drinking a Big Mac.
ObAUE: When I was a child, we pronounced "caramel" with two syllables,
as "karr-mel". Does this survive? (I switched to "car-a-mel" many
years ago, but my mind's ear refuses to hear that form coupled with
"apple".)
In the New York City Region "caramel" is three syllables with the "marry"
vowel: /,k& r@ mEl/, including in caramel apple contexts. I've heard
natives of Coop's Indiana say it like "carmel" /,kAr ***@l/. Actually, the
place name "Carmel" I say as /,kAr'mEl/ by default.
Evan Kirshenbaum
2003-10-30 23:01:30 UTC
Permalink
ObAUE: When I was a child, we pronounced "caramel" with two
syllables, as "karr-mel". Does this survive?
It does in my speech.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If the human brain were so simple
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |That we could understand it,
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |We would be so simple
|That we couldn't.
***@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
R H Draney
2003-10-30 16:47:28 UTC
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Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
Today's vent: Why can't I buy a large coffee at Starbuck's? What the hell
is a 'venti'?
You have to drink it by the window....

I love arguing with the slack-jawed youth at the movie concession counter about
the meaning of the word "medium"...surely if there are only two cup sizes
available, neither can be medium, and if there are three or more, the extremes
can't be medium either....r
Evan Kirshenbaum
2003-10-30 23:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
I love arguing with the slack-jawed youth at the movie concession
counter about the meaning of the word "medium"...surely if there are
only two cup sizes available, neither can be medium, and if there
are three or more, the extremes can't be medium either....r
Do you similarly argue with the people at the supermarket, because the
smallest size of olive they sell is either "medium" or "large"?

I think it was 7-Eleven who ran a commercial with a guy holding up a
cup the size that McDonald's called a "large" (because it was, for a
long time, the largest they sold) and saying "Ya call this a
'large'?!" I believe that it was soon after this that McDonald's
renamed their cups to match their competitors, with the old "large"
becoming a "medium".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |As the judge remarked the day that
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | he acquitted my Aunt Hortense,
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |To be smut
|It must be ut-
***@hpl.hp.com |Terly without redeeming social
(650)857-7572 | importance.
| Tom Lehrer
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
R H Draney
2003-10-31 00:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by R H Draney
I love arguing with the slack-jawed youth at the movie concession
counter about the meaning of the word "medium"...surely if there are
only two cup sizes available, neither can be medium, and if there
are three or more, the extremes can't be medium either....r
Do you similarly argue with the people at the supermarket, because the
smallest size of olive they sell is either "medium" or "large"?
No, nor do I raise the argument in connection with eggs, because I know that the
smaller size exist, if not in the inventory of the stores I frequent....

I'm trying to remember now what all the sizes are for shrimp; there's tiny,
small, medium, large, jumbo and colossal, that last counting 8 to 12 per pound
avoirdupois...I think once I even bought a batch of "super-colossal"....

The next size up from that should be served with an apple in its mouth....r
Evan Kirshenbaum
2003-10-31 01:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by R H Draney
I love arguing with the slack-jawed youth at the movie concession
counter about the meaning of the word "medium"...surely if there are
only two cup sizes available, neither can be medium, and if there
are three or more, the extremes can't be medium either....r
Do you similarly argue with the people at the supermarket, because the
smallest size of olive they sell is either "medium" or "large"?
No, nor do I raise the argument in connection with eggs, because I
know that the smaller size exist, if not in the inventory of the
stores I frequent....
The same thing happens with cups. This place may not have anything
smaller than a "medium", but their medium is (roughly) the same as
their competitor's medium, and their competitor has a smaller size.
Or this place may have had a smaller size but discontinued it as not
being cost effective. Or they may still have a smaller size, but
found that people are more likely to buy it if they call it a "kid's
size" or "value size". (Burger King, for example, currently doesn't
sell anything smaller than a "medium"...unless you order a kid's meal,
in which case you get a smaller "kid's size", which they used to sell
as a "small".)
Post by R H Draney
I'm trying to remember now what all the sizes are for shrimp;
there's tiny, small, medium, large, jumbo and colossal, that last
counting 8 to 12 per pound avoirdupois...I think once I even bought
a batch of "super-colossal"....
No "colossal" or "super-colossal" defined by the USDA. From 21 CFR
161.173,
Number of shrimp per 28.4 g (1 oz) of
drained product
Size ---------------------------------------
Other than
deveined style Deveined style
----------------------------------------------------------------
Extra large or jumbo.... Less than 3.5..... Less than 3.8.....
Large.................... 3.5 to 5.0 3.8 to 5.4
inclusive. inclusive.
Medium.................. More than 5.0 but More than 5.4 but
not more than 9.0. not more than 9.8

Small................... More than 9.0 but More than 9.8 but
not more than not more than
17.0. 18.4.
Tiny.................... More than 17.0.... More than 18.4....

Olives, on the other hand, come in (7 CFR 932.152)

Variety group 1 Variety group 2
---------------------------------------------------
Except
Ascolano, Ascolano,
Barouni, Barouni, Obliza Except
St. St. Obliza
Agostino Agostino
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Small........... N.A. N.A. N.A. 128-140
Medium.......... N.A. N.A. 106-127 106-127
Large........... N.A. 91-105 91-105 91-105
Extra Large..... 65-75 65-90 65-90 65-90
Jumbo........... 47-60 47-60 47-60 47-60
Colossal........ 33-46 33-46 33-46 33-46
Sup. Colossal... (\1\) (\1\) (\1\) (\1\)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ 32 or fewer.
N.A.--Not Applicable.

So there are, indeed types of olives that don't come any smaller than
"extra large".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |We never met anyone who believed in
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |fortune cookies. That's astounding.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Belief in the precognitive powers
|of an Asian pastry is really no
***@hpl.hp.com |wackier than belief in ESP,
(650)857-7572 |subluxation, or astrology, but you
|just don't hear anyone preaching
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |Scientific Cookie-ism.
| Penn and Teller
Martin Ambuhl
2003-10-31 03:54:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
She says she used to know what 'asseveration' meant, but
she has been adumbrated by her English teachers to remove any fancy
words from her writing.
What the hell does that mean? Was she foreshadowed or overshadowed to
remove those words? And how is one foreshadowed or overshadowed to do
anything?

adumbrate /"adVmbreIt/
· v. formal
1 give a faint or general idea of. Ø foreshadow.
2 overshadow.
– DERIVATIVES adumbration n. adumbrative adj.
– ORIGIN C16: from L. adumbrat-, adumbrare, from ad- ‘to’ (as an
intensifier) + umbrare ‘cast a shadow’.
--
Martin Ambuhl
Robert Lieblich
2003-10-31 03:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Ambuhl
Post by t***@yaNOSPAMhoo.com
She says she used to know what 'asseveration' meant, but
she has been adumbrated by her English teachers to remove any fancy
words from her writing.
What the hell does that mean? Was she foreshadowed or overshadowed to
remove those words? And how is one foreshadowed or overshadowed to do
anything?
adumbrate /"adVmbreIt/
· v. formal
1 give a faint or general idea of. Ø foreshadow.
2 overshadow.
– DERIVATIVES adumbration n. adumbrative adj.
– ORIGIN C16: from L. adumbrat-, adumbrare, from ad- ‘to’ (as an
intensifier) + umbrare ‘cast a shadow’.
You mean it has nothing to do with "a dumb rate"? The things we
learn on AUE.
--
Bob Lieblich
A dumb poster
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