Discussion:
Joyce: Paddy
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Marius Hancu
2011-03-07 17:11:30 UTC
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Hello:

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[Father and mother debate whether to send Stephen to a Jesuit college]

— I never liked the idea of sending him to the christian brothers
myself, said Mrs Dedalus.

— Christian brothers be damned! said Mr Dedalus. Is it with Paddy
Stink and Micky Mud? No, let him stick to the jesuits in God's name
since he began with them. They'll be of service to him in after years.
Those are the fellows that can get you a position.

James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
--

" Paddy Stink and Micky Mud": derogatory names for the Irish?

Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Cheryl
2011-03-07 17:48:12 UTC
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Post by Marius Hancu
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[Father and mother debate whether to send Stephen to a Jesuit college]
— I never liked the idea of sending him to the christian brothers
myself, said Mrs Dedalus.
— Christian brothers be damned! said Mr Dedalus. Is it with Paddy
Stink and Micky Mud? No, let him stick to the jesuits in God's name
since he began with them. They'll be of service to him in after years.
Those are the fellows that can get you a position.
James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
--
" Paddy Stink and Micky Mud": derogatory names for the Irish?
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
In this context, yes, and a bit more besides - it's the dirty farm boys
who are sent to the Christian Brothers' schools, not the sons of
professional men. They go to the Jesuits.
--
Cheryl
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2011-03-07 17:49:24 UTC
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On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:11:30 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
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[Father and mother debate whether to send Stephen to a Jesuit college]
— I never liked the idea of sending him to the christian brothers
myself, said Mrs Dedalus.
— Christian brothers be damned! said Mr Dedalus. Is it with Paddy
Stink and Micky Mud? No, let him stick to the jesuits in God's name
since he began with them. They'll be of service to him in after years.
Those are the fellows that can get you a position.
James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
--
" Paddy Stink and Micky Mud": derogatory names for the Irish?
It was a matter of social class. The Jesuits were well educated priests.
The Christian Brothers were not well-educated and were not priests.

Fifth paragraph here:
http://www.threemonkeysonline.com/als/_lovely_seaside_girls_james_joyce_musical_interludes.html

At the weekend Bray filled up with visitors from Dublin, but in the
nineteenth century those who could afford the rail fare would
definitely be of the 'right sort', and not those of the lower class,
whom Joyce's father referred to contemptuously as "Paddy Stink and
Mickey Mud".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Marius Hancu
2011-03-07 20:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Post by Marius Hancu
---
[Father and mother debate whether to send Stephen to a Jesuit college]
— I never liked the idea of sending him to the christian brothers
myself, said Mrs Dedalus.
— Christian brothers be damned! said Mr Dedalus. Is it with Paddy
Stink and Micky Mud? No, let him stick to the jesuits in God's name
since he began with them. They'll be of service to him in after years.
Those are the fellows that can get you a position.
James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
--
" Paddy Stink and Micky Mud": derogatory names for the Irish?
It was a matter of social class. The Jesuits were well educated priests.
The Christian Brothers were not well-educated and were not priests.
Didn't know the 2nd.
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Fifth paragraph here:http://www.threemonkeysonline.com/als/_lovely_seaside_girls_james_joy...
At the weekend Bray filled up with visitors from Dublin, but in the
nineteenth century those who could afford the rail fare would
definitely be of the 'right sort', and not those of the lower class,
whom Joyce's father referred to contemptuously as "Paddy Stink and
Mickey Mud".
Thank you both.
Marius Hancu

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