Noire (no spoilers)

Post by occam
In getting to today's Wordle solution, I resorted to using the stepping
stone (guess word) 'NOIRE'. It was accepted as a valid guess, and it
did the trick.
It means black in French, but I didn't know - until today - that it is
an acceptable guess word in Wordle. It is used in English in the
expression 'bête noire', but I have never seen it used on its own.
Weird, huh?

Isn't "film noir" known in English? I think that "Scandinavian noir"
appears in Helen Russel's book (might be "Nordic").

Noir is the new black.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

occam

2024-10-31 09:36:59 UTC

Isn't "film noir" known in English? I think that "Scandinavian noir"
appears in Helen Russel's book (might be "Nordic").

Yes, but it also comes as a word pair. Hence my observation "I have
never seen it used on its own."

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Noir is the new black.

Hibou

2024-10-31 10:08:55 UTC

As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/noir>

... but as an adjective, it is of course unlikely venture out by itself.

Tiens ! Je ne le savais pas. Viande noire is game. (Yum!)

<https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/noir/54766>

Aidan Kehoe

2024-10-31 10:28:09 UTC

Post by Hibou

As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/noir>
... but as an adjective, it is of course unlikely venture out by itself.
Tiens ! Je ne le savais pas. Viande noire is game. (Yum!)
<https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/noir/54766>

I just went and looked up “dark meat” in English (I hadn’t had any need to have
a definite understanding of what it means, but I knew the term existed) and
it’s not (limited to) game, it can include e.g. the abdominal meat of chicken.

I am reluctant to call “noire” on its own an English word, but I suppose it is
not up to me.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Hibou

2024-10-31 13:28:37 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe

Post by Hibou
Tiens ! Je ne le savais pas. Viande noire is game. (Yum!)
<https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/noir/54766>

Yes, in our family we've always used 'dark meat' to refer to the tastier
bits of a fowl.

Post by Aidan Kehoe
I am reluctant to call “noire” on its own an English word, but I suppose it is
not up to me.

There are so many French words in English, sometimes partially disguised
(saillie-sally etc.), that I sometimes wonder if English vocabulary
shouldn't be called a superset of French.

jerryfriedman

2024-10-31 15:11:22 UTC

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 10:28:09 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
..

Post by Aidan Kehoe
I just went and looked up “dark meat” in English (I hadn’t had any need to have
a definite understanding of what it means, but I knew the term existed) and
it’s not (limited to) game, it can include e.g. the abdominal meat of chicken.

..

Game is all dark meat, as far as I know. Likewise as
far as I know, chickens and domestic turkeys are the only
birds that have white meat (because they seldom or never
fly, so they don't need much myoglobin in their breast
and wing muscles). So you only have a choice when eating
those birds, and therefore the terms are mostly used
about those birds.

Before reading your post, I'd never considered the
fact that chickens must have abdominal muscles, and that
I must have cooked and eaten them. I'll have to pay
more attention next time.

The same is true of turkeys. To avoid any confusion,
I'll mention that some people put a tall beer can into
a turkey's abdomen to hold it upright while it's
being roasted (for some reason), but not a six-pack.

--
Jerry Friedman

occam

2024-10-31 10:29:59 UTC

Post by Hibou

In getting to today's Wordle solution, I resorted to using the stepping
stone (guess word) 'NOIRE'. It was accepted as a valid guess, and it
did the trick.
It means black in French, but I didn't know - until today - that it is
an acceptable guess word in Wordle. It is used in English in the
expression 'bête noire', but I have never seen it used on its own.
Weird, huh?

As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...
<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/noir>
... but as an adjective, it is of course unlikely venture out by itself.

The interesting point there is that 'noire' (the feminine form) does not
appear in the English definitions. It is always 'noir'. The word I used
in Wordle was the 5-letter NOIRE.

Peter Moylan

2024-10-31 22:28:11 UTC

Post by occam
The interesting point there is that 'noire' (the feminine form) does
not appear in the English definitions. It is always 'noir'. The word
I used in Wordle was the 5-letter NOIRE.

When English has borrowed adjectives from French, a fairly consistent
rule is that English borrows the feminine form. "Noir" is an outlier in
that respect.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-10-31 11:46:14 UTC

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?

The Danish everyday word is "kendt" with almost the same pronunciation.
We have a stød in the word.

Do you ken John Peel ...

was one of the songs we learned in English.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Janet

2024-10-31 13:04:15 UTC

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?
The Danish everyday word is "kendt" with almost the same pronunciation.
We have a stød in the word.
Do you ken John Peel ...
was one of the songs we learned in English.

kent (knew) is the past tense of verb ken (know).

Ken and kent are still in common use in Scottish
vernacular, ye ken.

Janet

Adam Funk

2024-10-31 15:00:48 UTC

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?

Yes, it's a bit recherché.

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
The Danish everyday word is "kendt" with almost the same pronunciation.
We have a stød in the word.
Do you ken John Peel ...
was one of the songs we learned in English.

--
There are some things that are not sayable. That's why
we have art. ---Leonora Carrington

occam

2024-10-31 16:04:45 UTC

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?

Yes, it's a bit recherché.

Is 'recherché' Scottish for 'everyday'? I dun'na ken.

Sam Plusnet

2024-10-31 18:53:07 UTC

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?

Yes, it's a bit recherché.

Is 'recherché' Scottish for 'everyday'? I dun'na ken.

Now try to explain why the smaller island near Muckle Flugger is called
Little Flugger and not Mickle Flugger?

--
Sam Plusnet

charles

2024-10-31 20:30:02 UTC

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?

Yes, it's a bit recherché.

Is 'recherché' Scottish for 'everyday'? I dun'na ken.

Now try to explain why the smaller island near Muckle Flugger is called
Little Flugger and not Mickle Flugger?

Named by a passing trawlerman from Grimsby?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

musika

2024-10-31 21:59:44 UTC

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?

Yes, it's a bit recherché.

Is 'recherché' Scottish for 'everyday'? I dun'na ken.

Now try to explain why the smaller island near Muckle Flugger is called
Little Flugger and not Mickle Flugger?

Because mickle doesn't mean what you think it does.

--
Ray
UK

Adam Funk

2024-11-01 11:39:10 UTC

Post by Hibou
As a noun, it's a kent abbreviation for 'film noir'...

Isn't "kent" an unusual word?

Yes, it's a bit recherché.

Is 'recherché' Scottish for 'everyday'? I dun'na ken.

I understand now that "kent" is a normal word in Scotland, or at least
parts of it. (I was familiar with "ken" but not "kent".)

--
The Internet is like a big city: it has plenty of bright lights and
excitement, but also dark alleys down which the unwary get mugged.
(Charlie Gibbs)

HVS

2024-10-31 11:06:43 UTC

Post by occam
In getting to today's Wordle solution, I resorted to using the
stepping stone (guess word) 'NOIRE'. It was accepted as a valid
guess, and it did the trick.
It means black in French, but I didn't know - until today - that
it is an acceptable guess word in Wordle. It is used in English
in the expression 'bete noire', but I have never seen it used on
its own. Weird, huh?

I see what you did there...

Cheers, Harvey

occam

2024-10-31 12:04:34 UTC

Post by HVS

Post by occam
In getting to today's Wordle solution, I resorted to using the
stepping stone (guess word) 'NOIRE'. It was accepted as a valid
guess, and it did the trick.
It means black in French, but I didn't know - until today - that
it is an acceptable guess word in Wordle. It is used in English
in the expression 'bete noire', but I have never seen it used on
its own. Weird, huh?

I see what you did there...

<smile>

Snidely

2024-10-31 21:36:57 UTC